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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 21:27 AnalThermometer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:43 oBlade wrote:On March 09 2012 20:39 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 09 2012 20:23 oBlade wrote:On March 09 2012 20:22 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 09 2012 20:01 schI2ler wrote:
I am dissappointed by EG.
I am dissappointed by reddit.
I am dissappointed by the starcraft 2 community.
You did it. You did it again.
Your love of the drama, your "power" to hate, managed to destroy a career, once again.
While you sit at home and live your private lives, you want to be entertained. Let the gladiators of the public scene enter the arena and entertain us. And when we feel like ending there presence, we'll just hype the drama till the gladiator is dead.
Now please enter the next gladiator.
And what does the company do? they drop the gladiator. We don't need you, we won't fight for you, we won't help you. Next gladiator for the masses please!
On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. I find it amazing the lengths people want to go to avoid "drama". Let the players and casters call people all kinds of slurs - just as long as we don't pick them up on it because it might cause DRAMA>?!? "Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain" <- I mean, what? The SC2 community improves its reputation by excluding people who throw around racist terms. To be taken seriously the community needs to meet certain standards which includes not calling people niggers. If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him. The most honest of men would have stripped himself of his ego and see each person on their merits, as equals. He wouldn't need to ever use the term nigger. Are black people who dislike orb using "nigger" appealing for a less honest society? You are attempting to intellectualize racism, please don't do it. Equating racism with a frustrated guy blurting out a word on the ladder belittles actual discrimination and injustices while at the same time putting restrictions on what other people can say, which is frankly none of our business. Calling someone a nigger is actual discrimination, but I don't think you believe what you're typing. There are all kinds of restrictions on speech, and even if you called a white guy a nigger you would get kicked out a private building, or cut off from the radio, or fired from your job, etc. whether said in anger or not, and you know that. This is partly because it reflects badly on those who condone it, this also applies to a community condoning racism making everyone else look bad.
Yes, I really believe the things I write, that's why I write them. Great insight.
You are making the point that free speech in practical terms is absolute. This is more of an empirical observation than an argument, as anyone can say "oh, the FCC exists, free speech must not be absolute." But in general, the point of liberalism is to extend rights as we realize that our society won't collapse just because some people said nigger. My point is not about what is, but what ought to be: we should stop giving fucks about what people say and just relax. We can establish so much solidarity with each other that we know we don't bear each other malice for any bigoted reasons, and free up our language so as not to be afraid of words.
Why are you trying to tell me what I know? Yeah, the radio station would cut me off if I said nigger because it's a public airwave. That's why I'd be broadcasting on the internet to begin with. I have been in buildings and used the word nigger and the sun rose the next day. If I were a salesman, businessman, or politician, there's a lot of language I might use even "worse" than saying nigger without fear of reprimand. The world isn't really Disneyland.
Real discrimination includes things like denying someone a job for their race, giving them a job, giving them shit pay, and them having no recourse because the oversight institutions are racist. Raping homosexuals, stoning women, denying minorities education. These are all bad things. orb's being a loose cannon and flipping out on the ladder is not in the same class of tragedy. It's not racist. He's not racist.
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TIL Alex Garfield has a Black Studies degree @@. Orb is in the wrong btw.
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On March 09 2012 21:37 Kickboxer wrote:
Another victim of the great PC witch hunt. Slowly but surely, any remaining flavor and personality is being squeezed out of SC and the scene will come to regret it. Where is the eSport Chael Sonnen, the Tiger Woods, the Muhammad Ali?
Oh, they probably all got fired.
can this possibly be serious? if it somehow is, let me just say that the scene is better off for avoiding such "personalities". this doesn't even necessarily refer to orb, so much as the concept of letting, oh, let's say a deezer or combatex rep the community on a large scale.
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On March 09 2012 21:34 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:13 ComusLoM wrote:While I think WE should be shunning people like orb who BM within the community, I don't think it should be because of a word If we shunned people for that reason, there would be no foreign Starcraft. By the way, many millenia ago, one very prominent and respected foreign player (both then and now) called one very famous and very manly Korean progamer a "fag" during an online game. I'm not going to say who it was (not IdrA btw), because I don't want to get his name involved and because there are obviously some very crazy people with crazy ideas in the community these days. It's very interesting however to see the difference in how that incident was received on TL back then compared to how it would be received these days. And when I say interesting, I mean the difference is pretty fucking scary. I certainly wouldn't call TL community a more mature one now than it was when that happened, and I think most people would agree. If every team operated like EG, that player and probably many others would now be teamless.
Or every professional player will act .. you know .. professionally. While mavericks are always fun, there is a limit. I guess it's a "crazy idea" for you to not accept slurs targetted against groups of people. But I hope you get used to it.
And for those commenting on this "mob" mentality, might I remind that this mob isn't threatening anyone with physical harm here. Rather a mob standing up against racial slurs than a mob lynching people because of of race, sexuality, religion etc.
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On March 09 2012 12:57 bennyaus wrote:
Orb is a legitimately good caster and it is very unfortunate that the community decided to escalate this to a level that it didn't need to be escalated to. All he needed was a stern talking to, so that he was more professional in the future. I am actually disgusted with how much our community likes to go on witch hunts all in the name of 'e-sports'.
There is a huge amount of hypocrisy here when two of the community's favourite players (IdrA and Destiny) frequently use terms which are derogatory towards homosexuals. I am disgusted that the line is drawn here just because Orb is comparatively a nobody who doesn't make EG/QxG money.
Yeah this pretty much. Idra uses words like 'faggot' liberally (as well as many other offensive words) but of course he doesn't get fired because he is too much of an asset to EG. I do think Orb should be reprimanded for his actions, because what he said is not tolerable in a professional organization like EG. I just don't like the double standard where the n-bomb is totally unacceptable when it comes from a new, expendable caster, (despite not being used whilst under their employment) yet when their golden cash cow Idra drops homophobic slurs on a somewhat regular basis whilst being contracted by EG he barely gets a slap on the wrist.
Hope Orb can recover from this, he genuinely seems like a decent bloke who takes his job seriously. Think this is a bit of an over reaction but hey when people start spamming your sponsors, it's understandable you want to take drastic action.
Edit: I also agree that simply stating the word 'nigger' does not imply racist intent. The double standards does upset me, since it is only when being offensive to minority groups does anybody really give a shit about what words somebody uses.
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On March 09 2012 21:32 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:26 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:22 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:16 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:12 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:07 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:05 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 20:56 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 20:54 Ballistixz wrote:
whats really sad about all of this aswell is that orb had GREAT casting skills and the potential to get better. give him like a year or so in casting and he could have been one of the top casting archons IMO. the sad part is that potential will probally never come to fruition now because of a bunch of white knights feel the need burn someone alive for one mistake they did in there past. THAT is what is really killing Esports. the kid had talent as a caster, and you people take that away just because of something that happened over a year ago? like really?
this thread has honestly enrage me alot and i am on the virge of just leaving the community altogether. its sickening the lengths people will go to start drama just because of a silly word they dont like.
orb if you are reading this thread, which im sure you are, then dont beat yourself up over this. its just another example of how the community is stabbing themselves in the foot by starting stupid drama like this. people just cant let things go and its so fucking sad. why should we "let it go" i think the community did a good thing in the last couple of days, showing that racism and homophobia are completely unacceptable and hold our public figures to a higher standard of proffesionalism is a good thing in my opinion, i really dont understand how people can think its bad. no they did not. the community did a ignorant thing. YOU DO NOT KNOW THE GUY. you just assumed he was racist because of one screen shot from over a year ago. i bet 90% of the ppl in this thread do not even watch orbs stream regularly. the guy isnt racist and he has said NUMEROUS times (well before EG even knew he existed) that he wasnt racist and said he has black friends if im not mistaken. that is why its bad. you people do not know the guy and just jump to conclusions and assumptions purely to start drama. so yes its bad, because you deemed someone as racist when they are not racist. you accused someone as being a witch and burned them at the stake when in fact they are not a witch. thats why people, like you, dissapoint me because all you can do is jump to assumptions and conclusions based on small facts. doesnt matter if you know the guy or not, he said a word you dont like and he deserves to burn for it. so sad and so very ignorant. I dont care if he is not a racist, using racist and homophobic language is not acceptable and by definition bassically makes you a racist or a homophobe. I couldnt care less if he is a nice guy, he is a public figure and should be held to account. and idra is not? how about destiny? idra has used the word fag many time and said more offensive things than i can count. but he is still on EG, and do you know why? cuz idra makes EG money and since he makes them money that makes it ok. do you not find anything wrong or cynical or corrupted about that? because i do. destiny is not a member of EG, but HE IS a figure in the community. the guy went as far as to sexually harass a porn star (mia rose) LIVE on stream while he was drunk by grabbing her boobs numerous times. compared to what idra and destiny has done, orb is VERY tamed, especially since he only said the word once and it was over a year ago for fucks sake. ive covered this before, i think its unrealistic for idra to be fired he is worth 100x more than orb to EG and has gotten better recently in regards to homophobic language. If he uses the language i will say its unacceptable but i understand how business works and EG would be throwing away money if they fired idra. With regards to destiny he mostly supports himself from what i understand so he doesnt have much to lose but I will also say any racist homophobic language he uses is also unacceptable. it doesnt fucking matter how much he is worth. that is what is angering me so much. are you really going to put a price on these guys? do you know how BAD that looks for them? for YEARS idra has been offensive and BM to many, MANY people. and for YEARS he only gets slaped on the wrist. now all of a sudden you feel the need to burn someone alive for 1 silly mistake that he rarely ever makes? do you see a connection here? idra calls someone a faggot people laugh there ass off, orb, who is worth nothing, calles someone a faggot and gets burned alive for his blaphesmy.. do you not see something wrong with that picture? do you not see how bad that looks for EG and Esports as a whole? you have one person being offensive and its acceptable and another person being chewed out for ONE thing that happened over a year ago. if you look at the picure as a whole then you will see that orb has been no where near as offensive as other top pros. this incident happened over a year ago. orb has been more tamed and mellowed out alot more over the last few months WAY before idra. when orb was mellowing out idra was still BMing hardcore. As ive said many times before I PERSONALLY WILL STILL BACKLASH ON IDRA, however i do not control EG policy and am not stupid like many people in this thread and understand that he is not going to get fired, but he does get punished by EG and i have to accept that. cool, you can accept that (go figure). but you can accept a guys dreams and hopes being utterly crushed because of a stupid mistake? a mistake he has done before EG even knew he existed? a mistake that idra has made NUMEROUS times and while representing EG and commentating and has only got a slap on the wrist? sorry, i cant condone that. give orb a second chance at least instead of throw him away because he is worth nothing. that is just utterly disgusting. i cannot and WILL NOT respect a company like that. orb deserves a second chance considering the situation.
I dont care about his dream, my dream is for people not to be bigots mabye when that happens orb can be a caster for EG. Im gonna explain the Idra situation like starcraft mabye you people can understand that then.
Idra is like a protoss 200/200 deathball army, if I attack him head on about him being homophobic i get crushed everytime because im bassically using roach hydra against his deathball we all know how that goes. To win against idra I have to attack him with small forces at several different times at several different places untill his deathball is out of position or become to weak to win in a head on fight. Im not going to call for idra to be fired because im not going to win head on.
Orb however is like a zerg 200/200 army of hydras while I have the protoss deathball, i can win a head on fight with him easily and im going to if it shows some people that racism and homophobia is unacceptable.
Idra is being punished for his language but its one step at a time because he is a big earner for EG and if you dont understand that then you have no sense of reality or economics.
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On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another.
im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga".
seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way.
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On March 09 2012 21:46 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:32 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:26 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:22 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:16 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:12 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:07 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:05 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 20:56 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 20:54 Ballistixz wrote:
whats really sad about all of this aswell is that orb had GREAT casting skills and the potential to get better. give him like a year or so in casting and he could have been one of the top casting archons IMO. the sad part is that potential will probally never come to fruition now because of a bunch of white knights feel the need burn someone alive for one mistake they did in there past. THAT is what is really killing Esports. the kid had talent as a caster, and you people take that away just because of something that happened over a year ago? like really?
this thread has honestly enrage me alot and i am on the virge of just leaving the community altogether. its sickening the lengths people will go to start drama just because of a silly word they dont like.
orb if you are reading this thread, which im sure you are, then dont beat yourself up over this. its just another example of how the community is stabbing themselves in the foot by starting stupid drama like this. people just cant let things go and its so fucking sad. why should we "let it go" i think the community did a good thing in the last couple of days, showing that racism and homophobia are completely unacceptable and hold our public figures to a higher standard of proffesionalism is a good thing in my opinion, i really dont understand how people can think its bad. no they did not. the community did a ignorant thing. YOU DO NOT KNOW THE GUY. you just assumed he was racist because of one screen shot from over a year ago. i bet 90% of the ppl in this thread do not even watch orbs stream regularly. the guy isnt racist and he has said NUMEROUS times (well before EG even knew he existed) that he wasnt racist and said he has black friends if im not mistaken. that is why its bad. you people do not know the guy and just jump to conclusions and assumptions purely to start drama. so yes its bad, because you deemed someone as racist when they are not racist. you accused someone as being a witch and burned them at the stake when in fact they are not a witch. thats why people, like you, dissapoint me because all you can do is jump to assumptions and conclusions based on small facts. doesnt matter if you know the guy or not, he said a word you dont like and he deserves to burn for it. so sad and so very ignorant. I dont care if he is not a racist, using racist and homophobic language is not acceptable and by definition bassically makes you a racist or a homophobe. I couldnt care less if he is a nice guy, he is a public figure and should be held to account. and idra is not? how about destiny? idra has used the word fag many time and said more offensive things than i can count. but he is still on EG, and do you know why? cuz idra makes EG money and since he makes them money that makes it ok. do you not find anything wrong or cynical or corrupted about that? because i do. destiny is not a member of EG, but HE IS a figure in the community. the guy went as far as to sexually harass a porn star (mia rose) LIVE on stream while he was drunk by grabbing her boobs numerous times. compared to what idra and destiny has done, orb is VERY tamed, especially since he only said the word once and it was over a year ago for fucks sake. ive covered this before, i think its unrealistic for idra to be fired he is worth 100x more than orb to EG and has gotten better recently in regards to homophobic language. If he uses the language i will say its unacceptable but i understand how business works and EG would be throwing away money if they fired idra. With regards to destiny he mostly supports himself from what i understand so he doesnt have much to lose but I will also say any racist homophobic language he uses is also unacceptable. it doesnt fucking matter how much he is worth. that is what is angering me so much. are you really going to put a price on these guys? do you know how BAD that looks for them? for YEARS idra has been offensive and BM to many, MANY people. and for YEARS he only gets slaped on the wrist. now all of a sudden you feel the need to burn someone alive for 1 silly mistake that he rarely ever makes? do you see a connection here? idra calls someone a faggot people laugh there ass off, orb, who is worth nothing, calles someone a faggot and gets burned alive for his blaphesmy.. do you not see something wrong with that picture? do you not see how bad that looks for EG and Esports as a whole? you have one person being offensive and its acceptable and another person being chewed out for ONE thing that happened over a year ago. if you look at the picure as a whole then you will see that orb has been no where near as offensive as other top pros. this incident happened over a year ago. orb has been more tamed and mellowed out alot more over the last few months WAY before idra. when orb was mellowing out idra was still BMing hardcore. As ive said many times before I PERSONALLY WILL STILL BACKLASH ON IDRA, however i do not control EG policy and am not stupid like many people in this thread and understand that he is not going to get fired, but he does get punished by EG and i have to accept that. cool, you can accept that (go figure). but you can accept a guys dreams and hopes being utterly crushed because of a stupid mistake? a mistake he has done before EG even knew he existed? a mistake that idra has made NUMEROUS times and while representing EG and commentating and has only got a slap on the wrist? sorry, i cant condone that. give orb a second chance at least instead of throw him away because he is worth nothing. that is just utterly disgusting. i cannot and WILL NOT respect a company like that. orb deserves a second chance considering the situation. I dont care about his dream, my dream is for people not to be bigots mabye when that happens orb can be a caster for EG. Im gonna explain the Idra situation like starcraft mabye you people can understand that then. Idra is like a protoss 200/200 deathball army, if I attack him head on about him being homophobic i get crushed everytime because im bassically using roach hydra against his deathball we all know how that goes. To win against idra I have to attack him with small forces at several different times at several different places untill his deathball is out of position or become to weak to win in a head on fight. Im not going to call for idra to be fired because im not going to win head on. Orb however is like a zerg 200/200 army of hydras while I have the protoss deathball, i can win a head on fight with him easily and im going to if it shows some people that racism and homophobia is unacceptable. Idra is being punished for his language but its one step at a time because he is a big earner for EG and if you dont understand that then you have no sense of reality or economics.
Lol? I don't even....
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On March 09 2012 21:47 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another. im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga". seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way.
At no point did I mention the use of racial slurs in my post. I'm curious to know, do you support nerd-rage and immature, disrespectful behavior as a norm in the community?
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It's just a word. If you take it away another one will take it's place. Stop wasting your time with this censorship bullshit and start fighting the hate instead.
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On March 09 2012 21:46 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:32 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:26 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:22 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:16 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:12 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:07 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 21:05 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 20:56 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 20:54 Ballistixz wrote:
whats really sad about all of this aswell is that orb had GREAT casting skills and the potential to get better. give him like a year or so in casting and he could have been one of the top casting archons IMO. the sad part is that potential will probally never come to fruition now because of a bunch of white knights feel the need burn someone alive for one mistake they did in there past. THAT is what is really killing Esports. the kid had talent as a caster, and you people take that away just because of something that happened over a year ago? like really?
this thread has honestly enrage me alot and i am on the virge of just leaving the community altogether. its sickening the lengths people will go to start drama just because of a silly word they dont like.
orb if you are reading this thread, which im sure you are, then dont beat yourself up over this. its just another example of how the community is stabbing themselves in the foot by starting stupid drama like this. people just cant let things go and its so fucking sad. why should we "let it go" i think the community did a good thing in the last couple of days, showing that racism and homophobia are completely unacceptable and hold our public figures to a higher standard of proffesionalism is a good thing in my opinion, i really dont understand how people can think its bad. no they did not. the community did a ignorant thing. YOU DO NOT KNOW THE GUY. you just assumed he was racist because of one screen shot from over a year ago. i bet 90% of the ppl in this thread do not even watch orbs stream regularly. the guy isnt racist and he has said NUMEROUS times (well before EG even knew he existed) that he wasnt racist and said he has black friends if im not mistaken. that is why its bad. you people do not know the guy and just jump to conclusions and assumptions purely to start drama. so yes its bad, because you deemed someone as racist when they are not racist. you accused someone as being a witch and burned them at the stake when in fact they are not a witch. thats why people, like you, dissapoint me because all you can do is jump to assumptions and conclusions based on small facts. doesnt matter if you know the guy or not, he said a word you dont like and he deserves to burn for it. so sad and so very ignorant. I dont care if he is not a racist, using racist and homophobic language is not acceptable and by definition bassically makes you a racist or a homophobe. I couldnt care less if he is a nice guy, he is a public figure and should be held to account. and idra is not? how about destiny? idra has used the word fag many time and said more offensive things than i can count. but he is still on EG, and do you know why? cuz idra makes EG money and since he makes them money that makes it ok. do you not find anything wrong or cynical or corrupted about that? because i do. destiny is not a member of EG, but HE IS a figure in the community. the guy went as far as to sexually harass a porn star (mia rose) LIVE on stream while he was drunk by grabbing her boobs numerous times. compared to what idra and destiny has done, orb is VERY tamed, especially since he only said the word once and it was over a year ago for fucks sake. ive covered this before, i think its unrealistic for idra to be fired he is worth 100x more than orb to EG and has gotten better recently in regards to homophobic language. If he uses the language i will say its unacceptable but i understand how business works and EG would be throwing away money if they fired idra. With regards to destiny he mostly supports himself from what i understand so he doesnt have much to lose but I will also say any racist homophobic language he uses is also unacceptable. it doesnt fucking matter how much he is worth. that is what is angering me so much. are you really going to put a price on these guys? do you know how BAD that looks for them? for YEARS idra has been offensive and BM to many, MANY people. and for YEARS he only gets slaped on the wrist. now all of a sudden you feel the need to burn someone alive for 1 silly mistake that he rarely ever makes? do you see a connection here? idra calls someone a faggot people laugh there ass off, orb, who is worth nothing, calles someone a faggot and gets burned alive for his blaphesmy.. do you not see something wrong with that picture? do you not see how bad that looks for EG and Esports as a whole? you have one person being offensive and its acceptable and another person being chewed out for ONE thing that happened over a year ago. if you look at the picure as a whole then you will see that orb has been no where near as offensive as other top pros. this incident happened over a year ago. orb has been more tamed and mellowed out alot more over the last few months WAY before idra. when orb was mellowing out idra was still BMing hardcore. As ive said many times before I PERSONALLY WILL STILL BACKLASH ON IDRA, however i do not control EG policy and am not stupid like many people in this thread and understand that he is not going to get fired, but he does get punished by EG and i have to accept that. cool, you can accept that (go figure). but you can accept a guys dreams and hopes being utterly crushed because of a stupid mistake? a mistake he has done before EG even knew he existed? a mistake that idra has made NUMEROUS times and while representing EG and commentating and has only got a slap on the wrist? sorry, i cant condone that. give orb a second chance at least instead of throw him away because he is worth nothing. that is just utterly disgusting. i cannot and WILL NOT respect a company like that. orb deserves a second chance considering the situation. I dont care about his dream, my dream is for people not to be bigots mabye when that happens orb can be a caster for EG. Im gonna explain the Idra situation like starcraft mabye you people can understand that then. Idra is like a protoss 200/200 deathball army, if I attack him head on about him being homophobic i get crushed everytime because im bassically using roach hydra against his deathball we all know how that goes. To win against idra I have to attack him with small forces at several different times at several different places untill his deathball is out of position or become to weak to win in a head on fight. Im not going to call for idra to be fired because im not going to win head on. Orb however is like a zerg 200/200 army of hydras while I have the protoss deathball, i can win a head on fight with him easily and im going to if it shows some people that racism and homophobia is unacceptable. Idra is being punished for his language but its one step at a time because he is a big earner for EG and if you dont understand that then you have no sense of reality or economics.
YOU are a PERFECT example of why i hate people with your mentality. its people like you that i find disgusting because your sense of "justice" is to fucking high and nonsensical.
what your basically saying is "i dont give a fuck if he is nice, i dont give a fuck if i know him or not, i dont give a fuck who he is, i dont give a fuck if he saved over 9000 babies from death, he used the word fag!!!!! and he needs to burn cuz he said fag!!!!!!"
honestly... why do i even argue with people like you.
On March 09 2012 21:49 silentsod wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:47 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another. im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga". seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way. At no point did I mention the use of racial slurs in my post. I'm curious to know, do you support nerd-rage and immature, disrespectful behavior as a norm in the community?
it happens in all communities, not just this one. it doesnt matter if i accept it or not, i have to learn to deal with it because at the end of the day its just a computer game.
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i hate racist people gg no re
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Good work EG. Happy with the result although I feel a bit bad for Orb now that his career is basically reset.
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On March 09 2012 21:47 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another. im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga". seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way.
The white dudes that got him fired know better then you about this word, am i right?
yeah nothing to do now, the pitchforks were raised and this time they worked.. the guy got canned!
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On March 09 2012 21:47 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another. im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga". seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way.
Orb isn't from the South, from as far as I can tell. Nor was he in a Southern surrounding.
N-word doesn't 100% mean racism, no doubt. But you did not account for the context. Orb wasn't greeting a friend here. He has trying to insult a person. And he did so by calling the person black. Is it okay to think that being black is bad enough to be ashamed and insulted?
Now I am just a simple country boy with no fancy African American History degree. But I know a racist behaviour (not saying orb is 100% KKK type racist) when I see it. I'm Asian. I've been there.
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On March 09 2012 21:47 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another. im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga". seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way.
Guess what? Black people can be ignorant too when it comes to the use of language. GG.
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On March 09 2012 21:52 shell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:47 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another. im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga". seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way. The white dudes that got him fired know better then you about this word, am i right? yeah nothing to do now, the pitchforks were raised and this time they worked.. the guy got canned!
you can work in a white dominated industry, but if you are a black studies major, then you are a man of the world when it comes to race relations. i only got a biology degree and work with minorities. don't ask me my opinion i can't give one that shines as well as alex's.
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Vatican City State334 Posts
On March 09 2012 21:32 Audemed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:27 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 09 2012 20:43 oBlade wrote:On March 09 2012 20:39 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 09 2012 20:23 oBlade wrote:On March 09 2012 20:22 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 09 2012 20:01 schI2ler wrote:
I am dissappointed by EG.
I am dissappointed by reddit.
I am dissappointed by the starcraft 2 community.
You did it. You did it again.
Your love of the drama, your "power" to hate, managed to destroy a career, once again.
While you sit at home and live your private lives, you want to be entertained. Let the gladiators of the public scene enter the arena and entertain us. And when we feel like ending there presence, we'll just hype the drama till the gladiator is dead.
Now please enter the next gladiator.
And what does the company do? they drop the gladiator. We don't need you, we won't fight for you, we won't help you. Next gladiator for the masses please!
On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:
[quote]
Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. I find it amazing the lengths people want to go to avoid "drama". Let the players and casters call people all kinds of slurs - just as long as we don't pick them up on it because it might cause DRAMA>?!? "Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain" <- I mean, what? The SC2 community improves its reputation by excluding people who throw around racist terms. To be taken seriously the community needs to meet certain standards which includes not calling people niggers. If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him. The most honest of men would have stripped himself of his ego and see each person on their merits, as equals. He wouldn't need to ever use the term nigger. Are black people who dislike orb using "nigger" appealing for a less honest society? You are attempting to intellectualize racism, please don't do it. Equating racism with a frustrated guy blurting out a word on the ladder belittles actual discrimination and injustices while at the same time putting restrictions on what other people can say, which is frankly none of our business. Calling someone a nigger is actual discrimination, but I don't think you believe what you're typing. There are all kinds of restrictions on speech, and even if you called a white guy a nigger you would get kicked out a private building, or cut off from the radio, or fired from your job, etc. whether said in anger or not, and you know that. This is partly because it reflects badly on those who condone it, this also applies to a community condoning racism making everyone else look bad. On March 09 2012 21:09 Audemed wrote:
Wow, people are dumb.
I really don't know what to say to respond to 88 pages of 90% idiocy. Great double standard there, btw, Mr EG. Look at other certain members of your roster if you take those "abhorrent" words so seriously. Maybe we should all start a crusade to get them ruined too!
Infact...let's start a crusade to permanently ban everyone who uses any profanity as well, because I find those words extremely offensive! Oh, and don't just ban them from TL, Starcraft, or anything so petty; Call their ISP, I'm sure you can get them blacklisted with the right story. How about we start a crusade to remove TV and Radio hosts (for which orb is an SC2 equivalent) who use sexist, racist, and homophobe remarks from their position? Oh, wait, that's not called a crusade, it's called having some decency. Hell, perhaps more people in the Starcraft community accept the Rush Limbaugh types than I thought. Since you're dumb, I'll highlight it for you. The actions for which he was fired were not conducted while on EG's payroll, let alone in an official capacity.
Ah, of course, how dumb of me - everyone knows there's a universal ticker and that calling someone a "nigger" becomes irrelevant after a certain time. Do you think if AG had known orb uses the term casually beforehand, that he would have just ignored it? He would have acted simply by not recruiting him in the first place. You could say AG is doing what he would have done anyway.
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On March 09 2012 21:49 silentsod wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 21:47 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 21:42 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 21:36 NtroP wrote:
I sense a lot of white people are very pleased with this decision. I'm white and I'm pleased that a strong hand was finally shown against someone acting in an immature and harmful way. I'm genuinely surprised players like IdrA or Destiny haven't been cut loose due to their behavior as well. People ought to be thoughtful in their interactions with others and having "nerd-rage" be acceptable as an excuse is a piss poor way of bringing that about. I want a community that doesn't condone or ignore shitty behavior from one person to another. im black and i am angered at how ignorant people are when it comes to the "N" word. the "N" word does not 100% mean racism. you ppl need to take a damn african american history class. the N word, especially in new orleans where i am from, is used on a daily basis. it all depends on the context and how you use the word. it can mean something racial, a simple curse word, or a greeting to a friend such as "what up my nigga". seriously, i hate ppl that seek there own personal justice. its like a hardcore animal lover saying you abuse your dog just because you cut her/his hair the wrong way. At no point did I mention the use of racial slurs in my post. I'm curious to know, do you support nerd-rage and immature, disrespectful behavior as a norm in the community?
Do you support having well formed and articulated arguments about something you have no direct experience with?
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On March 09 2012 21:37 Kickboxer wrote:
Another victim of the great PC witch hunt. Slowly but surely, any remaining flavor and personality is being squeezed out of SC and the scene will come to regret it. Where is the eSport Chael Sonnen, the Tiger Woods, the Muhammad Ali?
Oh, they probably all got fired.
Pretty sure we don't need racists in our community, especially not as casters.
And this "I am not racist even though I call everyone a 'nigga' " Is just a bunch of bullshit. You are obviously using "nigga" in a negative context and treat it as an insult, which it is and you are obviously well aware that it's offensive and racist. Or when has the meaning of the word nigga changed so much that a cannon-rusher and a nigger are now automatically the same thing. Are we using the word nigga now to describe "cannon rushers" or "cheesy players" in SC 2?
I mean, let me get this straight, people are practically allowed to say everything, no matter how offensive and racist it is as long as they openly pretend to not be racist? Well, that's nice, so in reality nobody is actually racist because you know, no matter what you do or say, as long as you claim to not be racist you are just not racist. Period. (!?)
How can you possibly defend this guy? He's not only immature but obviously racist. And please don't give me any of this "hes not actually racist"... he calls people "nigga" for absolutely no reason. There are hundreds of words he could use to insult someone, but he chooses the most offensive and most racist one, but he isn't racist? Like, really?
Oh and then this cute story that "this one time" it wasn't actually him playing but a friend who just coincidentally loves to call other people niggas too. I mean, if it's true (which it isn't), then the place where he lives must be extremely primitive when everyone uses to word nigger to insult other people. Really sad.
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EPT
