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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 20:14 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant. Yeah, because America social norms should be the ones for everyone. LOL! Did you even realize that the world is not America. That streams are not only seen by american ? Why the f. am I arguing to that....
An American hired by an American company in America is fired for doing something against American societal norms in a public way.
That's why your argument is bad, being in France and being personally apathetic has zero relevance to the situation at hand.
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Hopefully this is over now. Alex and EG have decided and it was on them to to that. I wish people will move on now and use their energy for more productive stuff, instead of bringing other people down, over stuff that isn`t even their business. All the hate towards Orb in the last 24hours was disgusting, even given the fact, that he said stupid shit in a private laddergame.
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Vatican City State334 Posts
On March 09 2012 20:01 schI2ler wrote:
I am dissappointed by EG.
I am dissappointed by reddit.
I am dissappointed by the starcraft 2 community.
You did it. You did it again.
Your love of the drama, your "power" to hate, managed to destroy a career, once again.
While you sit at home and live your private lives, you want to be entertained. Let the gladiators of the public scene enter the arena and entertain us. And when we feel like ending there presence, we'll just hype the drama till the gladiator is dead.
Now please enter the next gladiator.
And what does the company do? they drop the gladiator. We don't need you, we won't fight for you, we won't help you. Next gladiator for the masses please!
On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people.
I find it amazing the lengths people want to go to avoid "drama". Let the players and casters call people all kinds of slurs - just as long as we don't pick them up on it because it might cause DRAMA>?!?
"Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain" <- I mean, what? The SC2 community improves its reputation by excluding people who throw around racist terms. To be taken seriously the community needs to meet certain standards which includes not calling people niggers.
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On March 09 2012 20:21 kobrakai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:12 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. hiDo I think anyone overreacted? No. Hahaha what a sweeping and generalising statement, that is so fucking untrue it's not even funny. It's just sad. I think i am going to start an email campaign to EG's sponsors to get Idra fired. Pretty sure he used the words faggot and retarded alot more than Orb ever used nigger.
Ummm, his statement is 100% true. Which means you might be ...
wrong?
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On March 09 2012 20:16 dofz wrote:
No I don't think idra should have been fired, I just find it really dumb how EG has double standards
But they don't have double standards.
This isn't about freaking racism or any other kind of -ism. Those are not the standards. What sponsors like or dislike are the standards. Idra's image works for them and contributes to the attention EG gets them, they profit from it. Orb's resurfaced rage screenshot and the attention it got made them uncomfortable.
Enjoy mainstream Starcraft in all its glory.
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I really don't see how using the n-word is worse than the other statements that Orb pulls all the time, such as:
"All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that."
It's like the n-word is the most holy of things in the US and is some how worse than expressing joy in someone elses death. While I agree with the decision by EG, I think Orb has done far worse than using the n-word.
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On March 09 2012 20:22 AnalThermometer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:01 schI2ler wrote:
I am dissappointed by EG.
I am dissappointed by reddit.
I am dissappointed by the starcraft 2 community.
You did it. You did it again.
Your love of the drama, your "power" to hate, managed to destroy a career, once again.
While you sit at home and live your private lives, you want to be entertained. Let the gladiators of the public scene enter the arena and entertain us. And when we feel like ending there presence, we'll just hype the drama till the gladiator is dead.
Now please enter the next gladiator.
And what does the company do? they drop the gladiator. We don't need you, we won't fight for you, we won't help you. Next gladiator for the masses please!
Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. I find it amazing the lengths people want to go to avoid "drama". Let the players and casters call people all kinds of slurs - just as long as we don't pick them up on it because it might cause DRAMA>?!? "Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain" <- I mean, what? The SC2 community improves its reputation by excluding people who throw around racist terms. To be taken seriously the community needs to meet certain standards which includes not calling people niggers.
If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.
On March 09 2012 20:22 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:21 kobrakai wrote:On March 09 2012 20:12 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. hiDo I think anyone overreacted? No. Hahaha what a sweeping and generalising statement, that is so fucking untrue it's not even funny. It's just sad. I think i am going to start an email campaign to EG's sponsors to get Idra fired. Pretty sure he used the words faggot and retarded alot more than Orb ever used nigger. Ummm, his statement is 100% true. Which means you might be ... wrong?
It was pure ad hominem.
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On March 09 2012 20:22 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:21 kobrakai wrote:On March 09 2012 20:12 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. hiDo I think anyone overreacted? No. Hahaha what a sweeping and generalising statement, that is so fucking untrue it's not even funny. It's just sad. I think i am going to start an email campaign to EG's sponsors to get Idra fired. Pretty sure he used the words faggot and retarded alot more than Orb ever used nigger. Ummm, his statement is 100% true. Which means you might be ... wrong?
Yeah man, no intelligent person in any part of the world ever has used the word nigger. Please don't be so retarded.
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On March 09 2012 20:21 silentsod wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:14 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant. Yeah, because America social norms should be the ones for everyone. LOL! Did you even realize that the world is not America. That streams are not only seen by american ? Why the f. am I arguing to that.... An American hired by an American company in America is fired for doing something against American societal norms in a public way. That's why your argument is bad, being in France and being personally apathetic has zero relevance to the situation at hand.
But affecting an international community...
WoW! I though it was only your government thinking that way.
Don't know anymore way to open your eyes (and mind). I'm deeply sorry.
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On March 09 2012 20:22 AnalThermometer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:01 schI2ler wrote:
I am dissappointed by EG.
I am dissappointed by reddit.
I am dissappointed by the starcraft 2 community.
You did it. You did it again.
Your love of the drama, your "power" to hate, managed to destroy a career, once again.
While you sit at home and live your private lives, you want to be entertained. Let the gladiators of the public scene enter the arena and entertain us. And when we feel like ending there presence, we'll just hype the drama till the gladiator is dead.
Now please enter the next gladiator.
And what does the company do? they drop the gladiator. We don't need you, we won't fight for you, we won't help you. Next gladiator for the masses please!
Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. I find it amazing the lengths people want to go to avoid "drama". Let the players and casters call people all kinds of slurs - just as long as we don't pick them up on it because it might cause DRAMA>?!? "Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain" <- I mean, what? The SC2 community improves its reputation by excluding people who throw around racist terms. To be taken seriously the community needs to meet certain standards which includes not calling people niggers.
please spare me your bull shit. do you watch orbs stream regularly? if you did then you will know exactly why these accusations and backlash was brought to a sever extreme. yes he DOES rage at times, but reddit, AS ALWAYS, blew this shit way out of the damn water.
orb has become extremly chill and relaxed over the last few months. the worse of his rage being to call someone stupid/retarded. and most of the time its purely for comedic value.
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On March 09 2012 20:15 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:12 branflakes14 wrote:On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant. If everyone accepted and went along with the norm, nothing could ever change for the better. If everyone ignored all the world's problems as if it were a solution, nothing could ever change for the better. Stop pretending reaching some weird apathetic Buddha state benefits anybody but yourself.
If he were Buddhist he'd know that one of the primary tenets of the religion is to cause harm to no living being and so would not bandy about harmful words or be careless with his words, he would also know that putting his own ideas at the center of the world is a very Self oriented thing to do and wholly against the religion of non-Self.
I sincerely doubt he could make any sort of claim for being a Buddhist.
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On March 09 2012 20:24 kobrakai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:22 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 20:21 kobrakai wrote:On March 09 2012 20:12 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. hiDo I think anyone overreacted? No. Hahaha what a sweeping and generalising statement, that is so fucking untrue it's not even funny. It's just sad. I think i am going to start an email campaign to EG's sponsors to get Idra fired. Pretty sure he used the words faggot and retarded alot more than Orb ever used nigger. Ummm, his statement is 100% true. Which means you might be ... wrong? Yeah man, no intelligent person in any part of the world ever has used the word nigger. Please don't be so retarded.
That's such a massive assumption and a textbook example of the no TRUE Scotsman fallacy.
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On March 09 2012 20:23 Paladia wrote:
I really don't see how using the n-word is worse than the other statements that Orb pulls all the time, such as:
"All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that."
It's like the n-word is the most holy of things in the US and is some how worse than expressing joy in someone elses death. While I agree with the decision by EG, I think Orb has done far worse than using the n-word.
Seems like he goes around spouting shit like that all the time and then justify it with "I was just raging".
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Damn shame. But I guess EG dont really have any other options after Orb lied in public and people complained to the EG sponsors :|
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On March 09 2012 20:22 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:16 dofz wrote:
No I don't think idra should have been fired, I just find it really dumb how EG has double standards But they don't have double standards. This isn't about freaking racism or any other kind of -ism. Those are not the standards. What sponsors like or dislike are the standards. Idra's image works for them and contributes to the attention EG gets them, they profit from it. Orb's resurfaced rage screenshot and the attention it got made them uncomfortable. Enjoy mainstream Starcraft in all its glory.
Exactly. Well said, Good Sir.
That is the actual state of the business, whether anyone want it or not.
Any discussion if it is bad or good is utterly pointless, because it wont change anything, ever.
Deal with it.
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On March 09 2012 17:38 FlamingForce wrote:
What a terrible overreaction, this community just got alot more disgusting to me.
I agree, this is bullshit, Internet heroes with too much spare time and who probably ain't niether black nor poor causing so much ruckus and in the process severly hurting Orb and EG
It is really disgusting, and I wouldn't be suprised if some people just did it for shits and giggles to get some drama going.
And I do think EG's reaction is too extreme. They just lost my respect and support.
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On March 09 2012 20:16 dofz wrote:
Oh shit, if you ever seek to become something in the e-sport community you better make sure your background is so spotless that you could run for president without them finding much shit.
Also the post by EG that can't even type nigger, yet idra are calling people faggots, retards idiots left and right while on air, while being in a contract.
No I don't think idra should have been fired, I just find it really dumb how EG has double standards
Well of course they do, is it not blatantly obvious that Idra adds more value to the organization than Orb? Welcome to the real world.
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On March 09 2012 20:24 kobrakai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:22 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 20:21 kobrakai wrote:On March 09 2012 20:12 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. hiDo I think anyone overreacted? No. Hahaha what a sweeping and generalising statement, that is so fucking untrue it's not even funny. It's just sad. I think i am going to start an email campaign to EG's sponsors to get Idra fired. Pretty sure he used the words faggot and retarded alot more than Orb ever used nigger. Ummm, his statement is 100% true. Which means you might be ... wrong? Yeah man, no intelligent person in any part of the world ever has used the word nigger. Please don't be so retarded.
I can actually say ive never used the word nigger in my entire life, is it really that difficult to expect people to not be biggots? With regards to idra i haven't seen him use homophobic language in a while and he is obviously worth 100x more than orb with regards to EG.
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On March 09 2012 20:28 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:16 dofz wrote:
Oh shit, if you ever seek to become something in the e-sport community you better make sure your background is so spotless that you could run for president without them finding much shit.
Also the post by EG that can't even type nigger, yet idra are calling people faggots, retards idiots left and right while on air, while being in a contract.
No I don't think idra should have been fired, I just find it really dumb how EG has double standards Well of course they do, is it not blatantly obvious that Idra adds more value to the organization than Orb? Welcome to the real world.
You're endorsing corruption and double standards?
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EPT
