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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 20:01 schI2ler wrote:
I am dissappointed by EG.
I am dissappointed by reddit.
I am dissappointed by the starcraft 2 community.
You did it. You did it again.
Your love of the drama, your "power" to hate, managed to destroy a career, once again.
While you sit at home and live your private lives, you want to be entertained. Let the gladiators of the public scene enter the arena and entertain us. And when we feel like ending there presence, we'll just hype the drama till the gladiator is dead.
Now please enter the next gladiator.
And what does the company do? they drop the gladiator. We don't need you, we won't fight for you, we won't help you. Next gladiator for the masses please!
I kinda agree with your general tone, except for one detail. Who the fuck is Orb? He stopped as a player and started as a caster. He is no gladiator. His dismissal has little to no effect on the competition, so your post is overdramatising the issue just as well as the other side. 
On a bright note: I still believe his career will actually surge from this. Just watch it, man. If he's smart, he can turn this around.
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On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy!
Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant.
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Took a while to read, but it's a very well written statement that explains your thinking and reasons for taking the action that you did
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Both Katu's & Orb's dismissal is logical. eSports companies need sponsorship. If you damage the relationship with the sponsor, you're fired. Anyone can (and will) be replaced to protect the company. It has nothing to do with fair, it's just the way the world works. Either the company fires one person, or you put the entire company at risk.
The lesson I take from this.. The way you conduct yourself - at any time - even on the internet, matters.
Thinking the internet gives you anonymity is an outdated concept.
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On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people.
As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. Do I think anyone overreacted? No.
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On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant.
If everyone accepted and went along with the norm, nothing could ever change for the better.
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I would welcome the gay community to starcraft with open arms.
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On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant.
Yeah, because America social norms should be the ones for everyone. LOL!
Did you even realize that the world is not America. That streams are not only seen by american ?
Why the f. am I arguing to that....
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Racism, Sexism, Homophobia.
100% crackdown needs to be enforced in media, regardless of the scale of it.
Completely respect EG for this move.
However i agree Idra should not be allowed to continue with his slurs on gay people and should suffer the same treatment.
But no-one gives a shit, hence the NBA is the way it is along with thousands upon thousands of companies discriminating against X and Y, its atrocious.
You dont want to be part of the starcraft community? I dont want to be apart of fucking human society with you in it.
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On March 09 2012 20:12 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant. If everyone accepted and went along with the norm, nothing could ever change for the better.
Soooo, discriminating people or accepting derogative insults to a whole ethnic group is a good thing? Gee, don't you wish you had lived a few years earlier in a different country...
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idk, Orb and Katu did act bad, but I feel some organizations are acting too quickly
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This reminds me of my pre-school days when the kids biggest pleasure was getting other kids into troubble, i.e "telling on them", we have come a long way friends!
We can stand proud and know that no one in this community ever has done a bad thing. Finally the evil Katu and Orb have been defeated, Huzzah!
P.S. is it too soon to get idrA kicked, or how abaut destiny, he is doing pretty well in Quantic eh? Lets wait a week, and I see you all in /r/starcraft! the number 1 starcraft community of awesome nerd ballers :D:D:DXDXDXD
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For all the flavor paragraphs, it's hard to see this as anything other than an act of superficial political correctness and sponsor appeasement.
Although it's somewhat understandable if people did indeed spam EG's sponsors about the Orb incident, you could at least have been classy or subtle enough to leave this part out of the OP:
For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it.
For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us.
I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors.
If people feel you've handled it to their liking or they support you, they will tell your sponsors that on their own. A rather cheap ending to such an inspired speech the announcement opened up with.
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On March 09 2012 20:14 Capped wrote:
Racism, Sexism, Homophobia.
100% crackdown needs to be enforced in media, regardless of the scale of it.
Completely respect EG for this move.
However i agree Idra should not be allowed to continue with his slurs on gay people and should suffer the same treatment.
But no-one gives a shit, hence the NBA is the way it is along with thousands upon thousands of companies discriminating against X and Y, its atrocious.
You dont want to be part of the starcraft community? I dont want to be apart of fucking human society with you in it.
Deep breaths, bro. You even forgot to quote by the looks of things.
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On March 09 2012 20:12 captive411 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. Do I think anyone overreacted? No.
Congratz you have been educated in a environnement that does not use this word. Let's put in jail everyone who does not.
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On March 09 2012 20:12 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant. If everyone accepted and went along with the norm, nothing could ever change for the better.
If everyone ignored all the world's problems as if it were a solution, nothing could ever change for the better.
Stop pretending reaching some weird apathetic Buddha state benefits anybody but yourself.
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Oh shit, if you ever seek to become something in the e-sport community you better make sure your background is so spotless that you could run for president without them finding much shit.
Also the post by EG that can't even type nigger, yet idra are calling people faggots, retards idiots left and right while on air, while being in a contract.
No I don't think idra should have been fired, I just find it really dumb how EG has double standards
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On March 09 2012 20:14 ShinobiX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:12 branflakes14 wrote:On March 09 2012 20:11 silentsod wrote:On March 09 2012 20:07 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote:
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy! Ignoring the present day reality of American social norms doesn't exactly make your personal apathy poignant. If everyone accepted and went along with the norm, nothing could ever change for the better. Soooo, discriminating people or accepting derogative insults to a whole ethnic group is a good thing? Gee, don't you wish you had lived a few years earlier in a different country...
What isn't a good thing, as a few people have already mentioned in this thread, is giving what you consider to be derogatory words power. No one would use the word "nigger" if people stopped letting it get to them, but instead people just feed the trolls and let the Streisand Effect run rampant.
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On March 09 2012 20:12 captive411 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 20:04 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:58 captive411 wrote:On March 09 2012 19:49 Merlimoo wrote:On March 09 2012 19:48 Numy wrote:On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote:
Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy? Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore. I was thinking the same thing. Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny. The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road? People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people. As angry as I've ever been, I've never thought to call someone a N-----. Intelligent people don't use the word, don't like to be around people who use the word, and certainly don't employ people who use the word. hiDo I think anyone overreacted? No.
Hahaha what a sweeping and generalising statement, that is so fucking untrue it's not even funny. It's just sad.
I think i am going to start an email campaign to EG's sponsors to get Idra fired. Pretty sure he used the words faggot and retarded alot more than Orb ever used nigger.
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While i agree 100% with what OP said, i do think the decision to part ways with him solely because he used the N word on the freaking ladder is an over reaction. Lots of people trashtalk on the ladder and using the N word while you rage...well i don't consider it to be a big deal, he wasn't airing, that's him in his free time.
I can't remember seeing him being offensive once on stream whereas he has streamed so much games. You are responsible of your sayings, even when you are not working (especially when you are in a business that rely on image), but i feel that being taken down because someone took a screenshot of you saying shit while raging on the ladder is unfair. It's exactly like getting fired because you talked shit on your facebook whereas nobody of your company should have been able to see the post. There is a moment when you are in a private environement and what you are doing shouldn't affect your job whatsoever, it's called privacy and the guys who posted the screenshot on reddit now got him fired.
It's an interesting developement tho and it's nice to see all this discussion.
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EPT
