Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources.
On March 09 2012 19:28 Zandar wrote: I'm with Debo
I guarantee Debo would slap the shit out of Orb
edit:forgot a word
What for?
As you all say, it's about context and Debo and Destiny are friends and between them it's more like "what up my nigga" Plus, Orb is so geeky Debo would just call him a bitch,slap him and make him cry.
So not only are you accusing Debo of hypocrisy and making judgements of Orb based on a stereotype you just attached to him, you're now claiming Debo would assault someone over it, when in the video Debo says he doesn't care about racism in the slightest.
Uhmm yeah pretty much. I don't see much hypocrisy in a black guy getting mad at one white guy for saying "nigger" and not getting mad at another white guy for saying "nigga" though.
And are you saying you think Debo is an angel who would never lay a hand on anyone or judge them based on looks? Debo's a cool guy and reminds me of some guys I know and that's exactly what they'd do.
I think if Debo was beating a stranger on ladder and they called him a dumb nigger, he'd be pissed.
I always got the impression that he'd just laugh it off and stim harder.
On March 09 2012 19:45 Weber wrote: I apologise if this has already been linked in the thread, but I would like to direct everyone's attention to this lovely compilation of IdrA being himself (while working for EG nonetheless):
Specifically the statements at 2:13 and 4:30 should be interesting in this discussion. Not only does he take stabs at French-Canadians, saying they do stupid builds and "seem a little bit off", he also uses "gay" and "gayness" in a clearly derogatory manner. I cannot even begin to count the number of times he says the word "retarded" as well, which is by some considered to be an offensive word when used in this manner. One has to wonder where these double standards come from, other than Garfield's personal issues with the magical "N-word".
Idra brings EG the $$ and Orb well............Didn't (ever thou he was with EG for less then a week).
Oh but EG's boss's actions in this matter were all about his principles. He doesn't care about mere things like money.
On March 09 2012 19:45 Weber wrote: I apologise if this has already been linked in the thread, but I would like to direct everyone's attention to this lovely compilation of IdrA being himself (while working for EG to boot):
Specifically the statements at 2:13 and 4:30 should be interesting in this discussion. Not only does he take stabs at French-Canadians, saying they do stupid builds and "seem a little bit off", he also uses "gay" and "gayness" in a clearly derogatory manner. I cannot even begin to count the number of times he says the word "retarded" as well, which is by some considered to be an offensive word when used in this manner. One has to wonder where these double standards come from, other than Garfield's personal issues with the magical "N-word".
Have you seen Idra do this in the last few months?
This is relevant how? Have you seen Orb call someone a nigger in the last few months?
On March 09 2012 19:15 h34D_hUnT3R wrote: I believe a word "n-----" is not that strong, hateful word that should get people banned. It's a word that is frequently used in movies with 18+ rating, if orb marked his stream as mature/explicit language, then as a law student I believe he didn't break any rules. Streaming his personal content in a personal ladder game is a personal business of his and the viewers that deliberately choose to watch his personal stream. Of course Teamliquid got this nicely covered in "Terms Of Use" where they say that they can remove any content for any reason and Orb's stream is/was a part of TeamLiquid's content, but personally I feel a little bit communism (now I get banned for this) from TeamLiquid's side for interfering so much in their users freedom. I myself saw many comments here that were NOT vulgar but that got their posters banned. Personally I think the line between keeping things mannered and censuring like in soviet Russia is sometimes broken here. Ladder is ladder and it belongs to Blizzard's jurisdiction, not 3rd party TeamLiquid's one.
Another thing is, what if Orb and/or his opponent were actually black? What if they are friends and just trolling themselves? Usualy people tolerate when two african-americans call themselves "nigger", how do you know they aren't black?
And another thing, I myself sometimes flame and I got opinions from many (actually MOST of the) viewers that they watch my stream MOSTLY because it's funny when and how I flame people. They feel amuzed by my semi-fake/semi-real rage. One can say I entertain people through funny flaming and insulting punch lines... Will I get banned too? Would I get banned even if 100 people signed under my stream that they like my raging?
User was temp banned for this post.
Hypothetical:
I work for a respected law firm.
In my spare time, I play basketball and have a live stream of my games so the world can see my sweet moves on the blacktop.
During one of my ridiculous, ankle-breaking jukes, I get fouled.
I call the offending player a racial slur.
People on my stream are somewhat bemused by this.
They proceed to spread the footage across the Internet.
My boss sees it.
My firm's clients see it.
My firm's peers see it.
Judges see it.
How long do I remain employed?
That analogy doesn't work. Legal practice and basketball are two different areas. If a basketball commentator streamed himself playing basketball in his downtime and got caught yelling out a racial slur, I doubt he'd be fired. I mean, Charles Barkley called his producer a pussy on air and he didn't get fired.
Yes, *cough* pussy* vs. *cough* fucking nigger *cough*. Come on, this is obviously used in a different context, get real man.
OK, what about this then?
I'm not certain what your point is, you probably could find a whole bunch more youtube videos of people acting in this exact manner. If you want me to tell you why he's still around, well then that's because he's worth a lot of money. If you want me to tell you why orb isn't, well you should probably know by now.
This statement, while well informed and eloquently phrased, attempts to raise EG while further lowering the status of their former employee orb. This is completely unacceptable. It is alright if EG just dropped orb. Instead they undoubtably try to destroy orb's future. He should have been just been dropped and EG should have just stated that they were not aware of his actions. Instead they try to justify their actions. Actions which they shouldn't need to justify. This sort of stuff should not be on teamliquid since its main purpose is to boost EG's position.
On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote: Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy?
Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore.
I was thinking the same thing.
Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny.
Like in the past, dumb people (ie all the world community in power) didn't want women to be proactive and independent. They called them witches, and burnt them. Be proud.
Too much of an overreaction caused by the pitchfork mafia complaining to the EG sponsors. If this had been taken straight to EG instead of their sponsors, i'm sure the punishment would have been more appopriate, and by that i mean less harsh. But nobody, not even the EG manager can afford to mess around when it comes to the guys who pay the bills so Orb took one for the team. And the "Alex comments on IdrA" link is pure hypocrisy. Nobody ever complained to Steelseries or Intel when idra called them faggots and trash over and over again.This pretty much shows what the true authorities in the industry are... Complain to team manager = Scolding, Complain to sponsors = InstaGTFOfired.
Your love of the drama, your "power" to hate, managed to destroy a career, once again. While you sit at home and live your private lives, you want to be entertained. Let the gladiators of the public scene enter the arena and entertain us. And when we feel like ending there presence, we'll just hype the drama till the gladiator is dead.
Now please enter the next gladiator.
And what does the company do? they drop the gladiator. We don't need you, we won't fight for you, we won't help you. Next gladiator for the masses please!
On March 09 2012 19:59 Spicy_Curry wrote: This statement, while well informed and eloquently phrased, attempts to raise EG while further lowering the status of their former employee orb. This is completely unacceptable. It is alright if EG just dropped orb. Instead they undoubtably try to destroy orb's future. He should have been just been dropped and EG should have just stated that they were not aware of his actions. Instead they try to justify their actions. Actions which they shouldn't need to justify. This sort of stuff should not be on teamliquid since its main purpose is to boost EG's position.
just dropping without justifiing -> TL gets mad and asks why dropping him with justification -> TL gets mad anyway
it's impossible to make everyone happy and i really mean impossible, no mather what happens with orb.
On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote: Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy?
Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore.
I was thinking the same thing.
Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny.
The community doesn't need people like you that jump to conclusions without any thought involved. Do we condone this? No. Do we think the community overreacted and hurt a guys career for a mistake he did in the past? Yes. It's even funnier that you insult me when I'm from a place just recently had apartheid. Really now do you want to go down this road?
People must jump off their high horses and realise mistakes happen. Saying a racial slur in anger is a mistake, overreacting like this is another mistake. Both sides lose here there is nothing to gain. It's not as if Orb was going around beating up and subjugating black individuals. Grow up people.
Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
On March 09 2012 19:46 Zeevo wrote: Complete and utter disgust for the starcraft community. Who else's careers are you going to destroy?
Yip, I don't really want to be a part of this community anymore.
I was thinking the same thing.
Good. The community clearly doesn't want people who condone the use of language by people like Orb and Destiny.
Like in the past, dumb people (ie all the world community in power) didn't want women to be proactive and independent. They called them witches, and burnt them. Be proud.
On March 09 2012 19:15 h34D_hUnT3R wrote: I believe a word "n-----" is not that strong, hateful word that should get people banned. It's a word that is frequently used in movies with 18+ rating, if orb marked his stream as mature/explicit language, then as a law student I believe he didn't break any rules. Streaming his personal content in a personal ladder game is a personal business of his and the viewers that deliberately choose to watch his personal stream. Of course Teamliquid got this nicely covered in "Terms Of Use" where they say that they can remove any content for any reason and Orb's stream is/was a part of TeamLiquid's content, but personally I feel a little bit communism (now I get banned for this) from TeamLiquid's side for interfering so much in their users freedom. I myself saw many comments here that were NOT vulgar but that got their posters banned. Personally I think the line between keeping things mannered and censuring like in soviet Russia is sometimes broken here. Ladder is ladder and it belongs to Blizzard's jurisdiction, not 3rd party TeamLiquid's one.
Another thing is, what if Orb and/or his opponent were actually black? What if they are friends and just trolling themselves? Usualy people tolerate when two african-americans call themselves "nigger", how do you know they aren't black?
And another thing, I myself sometimes flame and I got opinions from many (actually MOST of the) viewers that they watch my stream MOSTLY because it's funny when and how I flame people. They feel amuzed by my semi-fake/semi-real rage. One can say I entertain people through funny flaming and insulting punch lines... Will I get banned too? Would I get banned even if 100 people signed under my stream that they like my raging?
User was temp banned for this post.
Hypothetical:
I work for a respected law firm.
In my spare time, I play basketball and have a live stream of my games so the world can see my sweet moves on the blacktop.
During one of my ridiculous, ankle-breaking jukes, I get fouled.
I call the offending player a racial slur.
People on my stream are somewhat bemused by this.
They proceed to spread the footage across the Internet.
My boss sees it.
My firm's clients see it.
My firm's peers see it.
Judges see it.
How long do I remain employed?
That analogy doesn't work. Legal practice and basketball are two different areas. If a basketball commentator streamed himself playing basketball in his downtime and got caught yelling out a racial slur, I doubt he'd be fired. I mean, Charles Barkley called his producer a pussy on air and he didn't get fired.
I'm not certain what your point is, you probably could find a whole bunch more youtube videos of people acting in this exact manner. If you want me to tell you why he's still around, well then that's because he's worth a lot of money. If you want me to tell you why orb isn't, well you should probably know by now.
OK let me dumb it down for you.
The guy I responded to was comparing a guy who works by working in activity A getting fired for things he said while doing activity A during his own personal time, to a guy working in activity C getting fired for things he said while doing activity B during his own personal time.
A:A::C:B is not a valid analogy. A valid analogy would be A:A::B:B.
On March 09 2012 20:06 Pipeline wrote: Good decision on EG's part. Nothing frustrates me more than when young (and sometimes idiotic) people take words in their mouth which they have no idea how powerful they are. Words like n----r and f----t are unfortunately used very frequently over the internet by people who hide behind their screens. I do hope, that people (mostly of the younger generations) starts using the simple concept of "Think before you act" not just face to face, but over the internet as well.
These words have power because you consider them to have so. Personally I don't care. For me, the meaning have changed. Don't live in the past, boy!
On March 09 2012 19:45 Weber wrote: I apologise if this has already been linked in the thread, but I would like to direct everyone's attention to this lovely compilation of IdrA being himself (while working for EG to boot):
Specifically the statements at 2:13 and 4:30 should be interesting in this discussion. Not only does he take stabs at French-Canadians, saying they do stupid builds and "seem a little bit off", he also uses "gay" and "gayness" in a clearly derogatory manner. I cannot even begin to count the number of times he says the word "retarded" as well, which is by some considered to be an offensive word when used in this manner. One has to wonder where these double standards come from, other than Garfield's personal issues with the magical "N-word".
Have you seen Idra do this in the last few months?
does it matter? have u seen orb use the N word or any BMing for that matter in the last few months? the worst thing orb has said in the last few months was "retarded" which idra says quite regularly.
the main thing that annoys me about this situation is they dont give orb a single chance at redemption and dont plan on doing it ever. its quite stupid when u look at the evidence, which isnt much and is very outdated.
On March 09 2012 19:15 h34D_hUnT3R wrote: I believe a word "n-----" is not that strong, hateful word that should get people banned. It's a word that is frequently used in movies with 18+ rating, if orb marked his stream as mature/explicit language, then as a law student I believe he didn't break any rules. Streaming his personal content in a personal ladder game is a personal business of his and the viewers that deliberately choose to watch his personal stream. Of course Teamliquid got this nicely covered in "Terms Of Use" where they say that they can remove any content for any reason and Orb's stream is/was a part of TeamLiquid's content, but personally I feel a little bit communism (now I get banned for this) from TeamLiquid's side for interfering so much in their users freedom. I myself saw many comments here that were NOT vulgar but that got their posters banned. Personally I think the line between keeping things mannered and censuring like in soviet Russia is sometimes broken here. Ladder is ladder and it belongs to Blizzard's jurisdiction, not 3rd party TeamLiquid's one.
Another thing is, what if Orb and/or his opponent were actually black? What if they are friends and just trolling themselves? Usualy people tolerate when two african-americans call themselves "nigger", how do you know they aren't black?
And another thing, I myself sometimes flame and I got opinions from many (actually MOST of the) viewers that they watch my stream MOSTLY because it's funny when and how I flame people. They feel amuzed by my semi-fake/semi-real rage. One can say I entertain people through funny flaming and insulting punch lines... Will I get banned too? Would I get banned even if 100 people signed under my stream that they like my raging?
User was temp banned for this post.
Hypothetical:
I work for a respected law firm.
In my spare time, I play basketball and have a live stream of my games so the world can see my sweet moves on the blacktop.
During one of my ridiculous, ankle-breaking jukes, I get fouled.
I call the offending player a racial slur.
People on my stream are somewhat bemused by this.
They proceed to spread the footage across the Internet.
My boss sees it.
My firm's clients see it.
My firm's peers see it.
Judges see it.
How long do I remain employed?
That analogy doesn't work. Legal practice and basketball are two different areas. If a basketball commentator streamed himself playing basketball in his downtime and got caught yelling out a racial slur, I doubt he'd be fired. I mean, Charles Barkley called his producer a pussy on air and he didn't get fired.
I'm not certain what your point is, you probably could find a whole bunch more youtube videos of people acting in this exact manner. If you want me to tell you why he's still around, well then that's because he's worth a lot of money. If you want me to tell you why orb isn't, well you should probably know by now.
OK let me dumb it down for you.
The guy I responded to was comparing a guy who works by working in activity A getting fired for things he said while doing activity A during his own personal time, to a guy working in activity C getting fired for things he said while doing activity B during his own personal time.
A:A::C:B is not a valid analogy. A valid analogy would be A:A::B:B.
Are you capable of digesting that?
You do realize that Kevin Garnett is black, yes? edit: i know that's a double standard and it probably really annoys you
On March 09 2012 20:09 Valikyr wrote: The fact that people are actually saying bad things to your sponsors because they're not a fan of EG is just mind-boggling. WoW.
Regarding the rest of the post I have nothing to say. If Orb can't act professionally it's natural to dismiss him from a professional position.
What does acting professionally even mean ? Is a journalist not doing its real investigation and reporting, but instead acting in the interest of sponsor or politics professional ? It isn't for me, but this is what we see everyday...
EPT
