EPTOrb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 80
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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Love and Justice
United States87 Posts
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:28 boxman22 wrote: Wanna give an example of idra bm'ing within the past month? Why? Orb's comment was from a year ago when he wasn't even affiliated with EG. It's a fact that Idra has made hateful comments many times in the past (his personal favourite seems to be 'faggot') and not only that, he's done so while officially representing EG. If he was offered 10 more chances while working for EG, then Orb shouldn't be sacked the first time something happened a year ago >_< The worst part is that the reasoning for firing Orb are mostly moral. They are proud to be part of the community that makes crazy witchhunts.. They wanna show this kind of behavior isn't acceptable.. yada yada... Except for when it's Idra. They basicly caved in to 200 redditors going mental. | ||
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remedium
United States939 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:15 h34D_hUnT3R wrote: I believe a word "n-----" is not that strong, hateful word that should get people banned. It's a word that is frequently used in movies with 18+ rating, if orb marked his stream as mature/explicit language, then as a law student I believe he didn't break any rules. Streaming his personal content in a personal ladder game is a personal business of his and the viewers that deliberately choose to watch his personal stream. Of course Teamliquid got this nicely covered in "Terms Of Use" where they say that they can remove any content for any reason and Orb's stream is/was a part of TeamLiquid's content, but personally I feel a little bit communism (now I get banned for this) from TeamLiquid's side for interfering so much in their users freedom. I myself saw many comments here that were NOT vulgar but that got their posters banned. Personally I think the line between keeping things mannered and censuring like in soviet Russia is sometimes broken here. Ladder is ladder and it belongs to Blizzard's jurisdiction, not 3rd party TeamLiquid's one. Another thing is, what if Orb and/or his opponent were actually black? What if they are friends and just trolling themselves? Usualy people tolerate when two african-americans call themselves "n-----", how do you know they aren't black? And another thing, I myself sometimes flame and I got opinions from many (actually MOST of the) viewers that they watch my stream MOSTLY because it's funny when and how I flame people. They feel amuzed by my semi-fake/semi-real rage. One can say I entertain people through funny flaming and insulting punch lines... Will I get banned too? Would I get banned even if 100 people signed under my stream that they like my raging? User was temp banned for this post. Hypothetical: I work for a respected law firm. In my spare time, I play basketball and have a live stream of my games so the world can see my sweet moves on the blacktop. During one of my ridiculous, ankle-breaking jukes, I get fouled. I call the offending player a racial slur. People on my stream are somewhat bemused by this. They proceed to spread the footage across the Internet. My boss sees it. My firm's clients see it. My firm's peers see it. Judges see it. How long do I remain employed? | ||
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iloveAthene
186 Posts
As you all say, it's about context and Debo and Destiny are friends and between them it's more like "what up my nigga" Plus, Orb is so geeky Debo would just call him a bitch,slap him and make him cry. | ||
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iJethro
Australia1 Post
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
Cursing is a part of human behavior, it's venting, it's just words. Nigger is a bad word yes. It's still just a word. If you are offended by words the problem lies with you, not with the guy who's raging and not even thinking about the reach of his words on that moment. Freedom to curse. | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
I wasn't offended that Orb got fired. People get fired all the time. I was offended by the manner in which this was handled. Alex's post essentially slandered his former employee, tarring him with a racist tag, which despite his long-winded post, he effectively does. (And merely being detailed and verbose does not make writing 'long-winded'; but making it dense, unclear, unnecessarily self-aggrandizing and wordy does.) It was an incredibly tactless move, and worse, the post makes it into a political one. Just drop Orb and move on. This bullshit reflects badly on EG, generates drama, and is possibly legally actionable. | ||
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Merlimoo
France192 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:38 remedium wrote: Hypothetical: I work for a respected law firm. In my spare time, I play basketball and have a live stream of my games so the world can see my sweet moves on the blacktop. During one of my ridiculous, ankle-breaking jukes, I get fouled. I call the offending player a racial slur. People on my stream are somewhat bemused by this. They proceed to spread the footage across the Internet. My boss sees it. My firm's clients see it. My firm's peers see it. Judges see it. How long do I remain employed? You tend to prove a point by using the actual mindset, encouraging the actual mindset. Private thing should remain private. Even if right now you would be fired, why to you want to perpetuate this nonesense ? | ||
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Roqshu
Germany112 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:14 ahappystar wrote: Team EG is irrelevant anyway, whatever happens there has absolutely no effect on the Starcraft community. Stop giving attention to these people they don't deserve it, Orb will just find some other organization to give him money. Such a pathetic publicity stunt... 78 pages... for this crap? I second that. This whole discussion, including all threads about this topic, sums up pretty much everything that is wrong with the TL-Community. F*cking hypocrites. Didn't knew Alexander Garfield before this, but I do know now, that he is a hyprocrite who made a fool of himself. | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:20 Defacer wrote: Watch the other Louis CK video I posted. To you a faggot is a swear. To gay people it represents some else entirely. Whether you give a shit or not is your choice, but a) don't be surprised or defensive if people are offended. and a) it does say something about you -- that your value the 'freedom' to swear above the perception of an entire demographic of you. The other Louis CK video that you posted, the video of the comedians playing poker, ends with a poignant point - that it's ok to use the word, just know what you're saying when you say it, and to who you're saying it to. I think i cover both those points when I use the word, as a swear, and I think i'd get the approval from | ||
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SpeaKEaSY
United States1070 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:38 remedium wrote: Hypothetical: I work for a respected law firm. In my spare time, I play basketball and have a live stream of my games so the world can see my sweet moves on the blacktop. During one of my ridiculous, ankle-breaking jukes, I get fouled. I call the offending player a racial slur. People on my stream are somewhat bemused by this. They proceed to spread the footage across the Internet. My boss sees it. My firm's clients see it. My firm's peers see it. Judges see it. How long do I remain employed? That analogy doesn't work. Legal practice and basketball are two different areas. If a basketball commentator streamed himself playing basketball in his downtime and got caught yelling out a racial slur, I doubt he'd be fired. I mean, Charles Barkley called his producer a pussy on air and he didn't get fired. | ||
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Merlimoo
France192 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:42 Coward wrote: I second that. This whole discussion, including all threads about this topic, sums up pretty much everything that is wrong with the TL-Community. F*cking hypocrites. Didn't knew Alexander Garfield before this, but I do know now, that he is a hyprocrite who made a fool of himself. The answer would be: "Hater is gonna hate". And he and his supporters will stay pretty happy about themself. Just in case, I agree with you. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4755 Posts
On March 09 2012 18:38 ShinobiX wrote: Um, ever had someone call someone else Jew? I've heard that once or twice and cringed badly at the sound of it. We do have the same "one word is really bad" feature, it's just that we had the lesson beaten into our culture a lot stronger than americans have, hence you don't hear it for the most part. I feel the need to clarify, Jew in itself is of course not a racist expression, but used as a clear insult, it gets a whole different meaning in Germany. Interesting, if this is the self as in the OP, this could be closely the same. I hear sometimes calling someone a jew and I also cringe at that, but have not made the connection to the nigger incident, until maybe now. I just don't have any background in how the nigger word is used over there and why it is so extremely bad, I just lack the cultural background. For jew in germany it is of course obvious to me, although I find it such an incredibly stupid insult, since jews are just a group of people to me without any negative connotation. Just the recognition that it is meant as an insult makes me uncomfortable though, so this could be pretty close to this situation. But I just don't know. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:38 iloveAthene wrote: As you all say, it's about context and Debo and Destiny are friends and between them it's more like "what up my nigga" Plus, Orb is so geeky Debo would just call him a bitch,slap him and make him cry. So not only are you accusing Debo of hypocrisy and making judgements of Orb based on a stereotype you just attached to him, you're now claiming Debo would assault someone over it, when in the video Debo says he doesn't care about racism in the slightest. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:35 AbuseYouMerc wrote: But it is not! Thats what people who've never managed people properly think. I manage a team of over 50 people, from *veterans* to *young ones* Both groups make mistakes, the new employees a bit more. Should I fire everyone for every little fuss? Should I fire someone if 10 people tell me he/she is bad, while serving 1000 people a day? Its all about perspective. This witch hunt was started by someone, some people agreed, but the majority wanted to hop on the bandwagon. I can tell you beforehand that the statistics of people that didnt speak out are probably around the 90% and the ones that did are in the 10% group. So we fire someone, for a mistake made over a year ago, because a very small minority is vocal about it? bad management is bad SCENE — Alex talking to VP of Intel Online Marketing VP: So, I heard that your new commentator called someone *cough* a dumb nig— ALEX: Oh yeah, that. Don't worry about that. That's normal ... VP: Normal!?!? You mean he does this all the time? ALEX: Well, no ... not exactly. Only when he's really angry ... VP: Huh? What? So if I made him angry, he'd call me a nig— ALEX: Ohnonono! Just ... uh ... strangers VP: What? They're not even his friends? You don't mean he actually uses it as an INSULT do you? That he thinks that Black people are inferior? ALEX: Uhhh ... I don't know. You see, there's this thing called cannon rushing ... VP: How does being angry justify using the word as an insult — ? ALEX: ... and cannon rushing, you see, is really really frustrating ... VP: What kind of idiot is this — ? ALEX: ... and there's this thing called stream-cheating, and cheating is really really annoying ... VP: Do you think this okay? ALEX: Uhhh ... VP: ???????? ALEX:  END SCENE | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
But my own opinion is that the decision was maybe a bit harsh, since those screens where from before he was working for you, and everyone in rage mode can say that or worse things, even pro players which keep a wide number of fans. It should be noted than context is important, even for that kind of word. Maybe it is because in Spain our culture is different, and we call our friends "faggots" "motherfuckers" and "sob" as a norm. Even one friend of mine which has tanned sking is "the moor" which in Spain is considered a racist term to refer to Maroc people. Anyway, I understand it, even if I don't concour with your ideas, and I will keep supporting EG and buying from your sponsors because they support the E-sports. | ||
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Weber
Denmark1 Post
Specifically the statements at 2:13 and 4:30 should be interesting in this discussion. Not only does he take stabs at French-Canadians, saying they do stupid builds and "seem a little bit off", he also uses "gay" and "gayness" in a clearly derogatory manner. I cannot even begin to count the number of times he says the word "retarded" as well, which is by some considered to be an offensive word when used in this manner. One has to wonder where these double standards come from, other than Garfield's personal issues with the magical "N-word". | ||
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Zeevo
148 Posts
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iloveAthene
186 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:44 SpeaKEaSY wrote: That analogy doesn't work. Legal practice and basketball are two different areas. If a basketball commentator streamed himself playing basketball in his downtime and got caught yelling out a racial slur, I doubt he'd be fired. I mean, Charles Barkley called his producer a pussy on air and he didn't get fired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5EJ95CHtTY Ever heard of the sportscaster Jimmy the Greek? ironic name I know, but google him. Got fired for saying blacks were better athletes than whites. Yeah that was on air I believe, but still | ||
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Starscreamz
Canada30 Posts
On March 09 2012 19:44 SpeaKEaSY wrote: That analogy doesn't work. Legal practice and basketball are two different areas. If a basketball commentator streamed himself playing basketball in his downtime and got caught yelling out a racial slur, I doubt he'd be fired. I mean, Charles Barkley called his producer a pussy on air and he didn't get fired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5EJ95CHtTY Yes, *cough* pussy* vs. *cough* fucking nigger *cough*. Come on, this is obviously used in a different context, get real man. | ||
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