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Active: 11296 users

Orb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 55

Forum Index > SC2 General
3626 CommentsPost a Reply
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources.

In short, be smart.

Alex comments on Idra:


Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038

Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST
yoten
Profile Joined January 2011
United States57 Posts
March 09 2012 06:01 GMT
#1081
This was a very well reasoned post. I agree with the firing of Orb, but I hope that he and EG can move on from this.
"Do with my minions as you will, Cerebrate. They will serve you unquestioningly. Go and bring swift wrath to all who would oppose the Swarm."
Holloworb
Profile Joined November 2011
Norway345 Posts
March 09 2012 06:02 GMT
#1082
Makes me really happy to see one of the leaders of the community daring to take a stand based on principle. Didn't hear of Orbs actions before i read this thread, but im glad you decided to take action.

Like with your post regarding the Naniwa issue, your here clearly show that there's a real philosophy behind your thoughts, and now actions. That is something i applaud.

Gecko4lif
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States42 Posts
March 09 2012 06:02 GMT
#1083
Didnt actually expect anything to happen. Interesting.
lucasfz
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9 Posts
March 09 2012 06:02 GMT
#1084
On March 09 2012 14:48 Zzoram wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:46 lucasfz wrote:
I think this is ridiculous, like seriously rofl how many people here have actually been discriminated against by orb? none of you, so why are you getting offended? how is orb racist because he called a white person a "nigger"? Its just a word rofl like seriously? if he was sympathizing slavery or white supremacy then yeah that is racism, but this is not, and the whole EG thing, it is stupid that he would get fired for something he did before he became a part of EG and represented them. and everyone getting offended probably lives sheltered lives in nice places and get offended over things for no reason acting like they are freeing slaves by telling people to stop saying "nigger." Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me, this is the way i was raised, i wish all of you were too so there weren't so many issues and people getting offended by stupid shit in the world. get some thick skin and grow up please. I mean you don't even need thick skin because none of this is even directed towards you because 95% of you are white. rofl.



How do you even know the people Orb called "nigger" were all white? What if some of them were black? Does that change your view of the situation? Should it matter?


maybe not white but i would put money on it that they aren't black, and anyway, orb did this without the intention of being actually racist and assuming the person wasn't, and if they were black, to be honest the word only matters if there is intention behind it, a word does not make somebody racist, a persons belief system, ideas and actions make them racist or not, words are obviously the only thing portraying your ideas you should be careful what you say so people don't get the wrong idea but i don't think it is reasonable to condemn him for saying a word, whether you think he is actually racist or not.

The problem is that people still connect the word "nigger" to slavery when it is just referring to the color of somebodies skin, its the reason people think it to not nearly be as bad as honky because white people weren't slaves for hundreds of years. And even the word has lost its connection to the color of somebodies skin, including the word "faggot", people say these things in games and mean completely different things, i say the word "faggot" all the time and im not saying the guy is literally homosexual or even saying anything bad about homosexuals, such words only matter to people whom they apply to, i.e. blacks and gays. I seriously don't understand how people get offended by it when they are neither, these people don't need you to voice for them if they are offended by it, and they should only be offended when it is directed towards them or someone else who is black or gay.
Shyndashu
Profile Joined September 2011
United States136 Posts
March 09 2012 06:02 GMT
#1085
This kind of professionalism from EG is what keeps me supporting them. Just bought my month's case of Monster today in support of them. GL to Orb as well. His analysis are on point, however, to be included on a sponsored team's lineup comes with responsibility to the PR of the team and their sponsors.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
March 09 2012 06:03 GMT
#1086
This does beg the question how EG is going to respoond the next time Idra curses out someone on ladder using colorful language. I think Alex needs to set guidelines as to what exactley the standard is. Is it bad language in general? Racial language? Where exactley is the line?

There's a lot of room here for charges of hypocracy if they do not remain consistant.
Alacast
Profile Joined December 2011
United States205 Posts
March 09 2012 06:04 GMT
#1087
"Words can carry any burden we wish. All that's required is agreement and a tradition upon which to build."

"I try to tell them that all words are plastic. Word images begin to distort in the instant of utterance. Ideas imbedded in a language require that particular language for expression. This is the very essence of the meaning within the word exotic. See how it begins to distort? Translation squirms in the presence of the exotic. The [English] which I speak here imposes itself. It is an outside frame of reference, a particular system. Dangers lurk in all systems. Systems incorporate the unexamined beliefs of their creators. Adopt a system, accept its beliefs, and you help strengthen the resistance to change."

-Frank Herbert, God Emperor of Dune

So long as people adamantly demand that n------ can only and will only ever be a racial slur, it will never stop being a racial slur. Racism and prejudice can and will still continue to exist with or without the usage of one word and ironically, the people historically most damaged by its negative connotation are the only ones to realize that co-opting it in a new context is the only way to render it powerless.

Let us not rail about justice as long as we have arms and the freedom to use them. -Frank Herbert
TheAngelofDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2033 Posts
March 09 2012 06:04 GMT
#1088
You said orb was on a contract. Did that contract state, "If evidence is brought up that in the past before you signed this contract you used offensive racial language than this contract is void and you will be removed." Or something along those lines? I don't understand how something that happened in the past can directly cause someone to be fired unless he is well aware of it and lies up front about it to secure the position. Explain someone, as it really does boggle me. Imagine if you just got hired at best buy, and within the week they fired you because you got fired at a Frys for calling customers "faggots" and "niggers".

Frys and Best Buy are both electronic stores for those who don't know.
"Infestors are the suck" - LzGamer
Caryc
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany330 Posts
March 09 2012 06:05 GMT
#1089
another overreaction (this 1 by far worse than the katu thing)..
Invigoration
Profile Joined December 2011
12 Posts
March 09 2012 06:05 GMT
#1090
Excellent response. Really impressed with EG.
Bobgrimly
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand250 Posts
March 09 2012 06:05 GMT
#1091
So who are the high and mighty people who complained to sponsors before seeing if EG supported orb using racist remarks?

Seriously how whiny can you get. I hope every single one of them goes and writes a full reversal praising EG for their actions. That op alone is worth a mention. But I am lazy and I am not in america and so I won't. But hell if I was so uppity to complain in the first place I sure would reverse my words.
For the swarm
lubu42
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States314 Posts
March 09 2012 06:05 GMT
#1092
Although I do agree this was the right thing to do on EG's part, I still feel bad for Orb :/ he was one of my favorite players/casters simply because of how he was. He was great at what he did and he entertained countless numbers of people! It's sad to hear that he messed up while he was laddering and said offensive things which lead him to getting fired in the future but the thing i find most depressing is that he decided he couldn't keep up with the pro scene and so he wanted more then anything to go into casting. Casting for EG is HUGEEE!! And this was a big shot for him, but now it's all taken away D: sorry to hear Orb! You'll still make it man!
SlayerS_BoxeR <3
TheWorldToCome
Profile Joined January 2012
United States452 Posts
March 09 2012 06:05 GMT
#1093
On March 09 2012 13:40 Troyzilla wrote:
So he was on his personal stream, with no EG overlay or tag, playing personal games, and people freaked out that he used a word commonly used on the internet to illustrate frustration?



Wow post like these are so frustrating (and there are so many of them too!)

The issue isnt about what was said, it's mostly about the fact he lied to EG and the community and then tried to cover it up and then actually lashed out at members in the community acting like HE was the victim in all this. Of course it turned out Orb was lying the whole time and so everyone got angry.

People seem to be missing the point entirely. I see so many people also saying stuff like "wow such an overreaction by the community, I 'll bet everyone getting upset has used words like this before in their own past." The difference is that most of us are private citizens that don't have huge corporate money backing us (like Orb did when he got a job with EG.) Everything changes when you become a public figure.
Starcraft 2 was designed to have a best race. You play the worst one.
ffdestiny
Profile Joined September 2010
United States773 Posts
March 09 2012 06:05 GMT
#1094
On March 09 2012 15:04 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
You said orb was on a contract. Did that contract state, "If evidence is brought up that in the past before you signed this contract you used offensive racial language than this contract is void and you will be removed." Or something along those lines? I don't understand how something that happened in the past can directly cause someone to be fired unless he is well aware of it and lies up front about it to secure the position. Explain someone, as it really does boggle me. Imagine if you just got hired at best buy, and within the week they fired you because you got fired at a Frys for calling customers "faggots" and "niggers".

Frys and Best Buy are both electronic stores for those who don't know.


I'd certainly buy a Monster Cable from Orb though...
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
March 09 2012 06:06 GMT
#1095


Context people, context. There are people attacking and defending this decision for all the wrong reasons.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
blizzind
Profile Joined February 2010
United States642 Posts
March 09 2012 06:06 GMT
#1096
The only reason a witch hunt even takes place is because people are denied the truth so they go and look for it. Orb should have came out in the beginning and told the truth.
Tektos
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1321 Posts
March 09 2012 06:06 GMT
#1097
On March 09 2012 15:04 Alacast wrote:
"Words can carry any burden we wish. All that's required is agreement and a tradition upon which to build."

"I try to tell them that all words are plastic. Word images begin to distort in the instant of utterance. Ideas imbedded in a language require that particular language for expression. This is the very essence of the meaning within the word exotic. See how it begins to distort? Translation squirms in the presence of the exotic. The [English] which I speak here imposes itself. It is an outside frame of reference, a particular system. Dangers lurk in all systems. Systems incorporate the unexamined beliefs of their creators. Adopt a system, accept its beliefs, and you help strengthen the resistance to change."

-Frank Herbert, God Emperor of Dune

So long as people adamantly demand that n------ can only and will only ever be a racial slur, it will never stop being a racial slur. Racism and prejudice can and will still continue to exist with or without the usage of one word and ironically, the people historically most damaged by its negative connotation are the only ones to realize that co-opting it in a new context is the only way to render it powerless.



And by censoring the word you're only encouraging the taboo to remain.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
March 09 2012 06:07 GMT
#1098
On March 09 2012 14:50 checkplus wrote:
Jesus destiny's response is pretty much: bury your head in the sand and ignore the N word and it'll go away eventually. Pretty ignorant.


Destiny is a decent guy, but he's an idiot about this matter. Ignoring the derogatory nature word perpetuates it, and doesn't nothing to neuter it or make it 'go away.'
iloveAthene
Profile Joined June 2011
186 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 06:09:52
March 09 2012 06:07 GMT
#1099
On March 09 2012 14:58 Protosnake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:49 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
The history of its usage - particularly in the United States is one tied to the literal ownership of people,


I was answering to someone calling the word "Inherently racist". The inherent meaning of word isnt exactly ownership of people, at least not those living today.

Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:53 iloveAthene wrote:
True, but Protosnake stated that the word "nigger was created to depict the color black." He didn't mention skin color or anything. That's what I was I disputing.


I didnt mentioned skin color because the inherent meaning of the word ISNT AT ALL about skin color. which is why i specified the COLOR black.


Ok sorry. I knew "negro" "negre" "niger" all meant the color black. Just wasn't aware the word "nigger" originally just meant the COLOR black and and didn't have anything to do with skin color. What's it's language of origin?

Blacks used to be called Negroes in the US and I just assumed Nigger evolved from that word.

edit:spelling
Gemini00
Profile Joined September 2011
United States397 Posts
March 09 2012 06:07 GMT
#1100
It's really interesting to see the mixed reactions from people regarding EG's decision and the fallout of this whole debacle.

Not that my opinion counts for squat, but for what it's worth I think what Orb did and has done habitually throughout his career is completely unacceptable, and that the punishment was justified. At the same time, we all did stupid shit when we were young...he's a solid analytical caster and I hope he's able to use this as an opportunity to clean up his act and eventually rebound from it.

Now if we could just apply these same standards to certain other high-profile individuals who represent the community badly, yet don't seem to get the same treatment...
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H. L. Mencken
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