Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources.
Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended.
Stopped reading there. That's funny as shit and you know it. It would be equally funny if a bunch of black guys parodied the super nerdy white and asian guy stereotype (36.33%, repeating of course...) in a game.
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
Why and how exactly is it fun? Think about it. If people like you were in charge, we would still be living in the stone age, as you represent a very primitive, backward point of view.
On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote: I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of.
On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote: [quote] It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist...
Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet.
1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point).
You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck.
Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true?
yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids.
If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead?
Can't believe people think it's so black and white.
we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable?
Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina?
That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor.
That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have.
Why the hell do you care about words literally mean rather than the intention behind those words?
Because you asked a really fucking stupid question. "Am I saying it's bad to be a cunt when I call someone a cunt?". Not going to bother to respond to the rest. Have a good one, dude.
Don't be so childish. The answer is no. I'm calling someone a cunt because it's part of a list of "bad words".
You're not above me, you don't get to decide what my words mean.
On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote: it is my personal opinion that n----- is the ugliest, most repulsive word in the American-English vocabulary. I have never said it, typed it, or written it. If it's used in my presence, I immediately speak up and demand that it not be used again in my presence, regardless of context or circumstances (and for the record, I am equally sensitive about who can and can't say n---a, but that's a different discussion entirely).
I don't think you realize just how absurdly irrational this statement is. Your view on racism takes a good position, but then pushes to a stupid extreme.
So, in 10th grade English class, you would shit bricks upon reading Mark Twain, and protest the class? Why? Maybe if you took the "regardless of context" thing out it wouldn't be such an absurd statement.
That's kind of a funny example, since a "sanitized" version of Huck Finn was released like a year ago that took out nigger and replaced it with nicer words.
On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote: I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of.
On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote: [quote]
So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval.
It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist...
Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet.
1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point).
You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck.
Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true?
yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids.
If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead?
Can't believe people think it's so black and white.
we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable?
Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina?
That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor.
That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have.
but calling somebody a dick isn't saying its bad to be a man?
Re-read what I said, I said I don't buy that calling someone a cunt is sexist. Some people do. It's not to me. It's saying it's bad to be a genital of a man of its entirety if you want to look at it literally, I guess. Not going to read the rest based off that premise you made.
Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended.
Stopped reading there. That's funny as shit and you know it. It would be equally funny if a bunch of black guys parodied the super nerdy white and asian guy stereotype (36.33%, repeating of course...) in a game.
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
Why and how exactly is it fun? Think about it. If people like you were in charge, we would still be living in the stone age, as you represent a very primitive, backward point of view.
Feel free to prove this stupidity. Virtually everyone uses bad words (whether they're part of whatever arbitrary list you've decided constitutes the most offensive ones is impossible to say). Humans have moved forward. Afaik, we were more backward when it was illegal to say bad things to certain people (e.g. flaming the gov't).
Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended.
Stopped reading there. That's funny as shit and you know it. It would be equally funny if a bunch of black guys parodied the super nerdy white and asian guy stereotype (36.33%, repeating of course...) in a game.
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
Why and how exactly is it fun? Think about it. If people like you were in charge, we would still be living in the stone age, as you represent a very primitive, backward point of view.
Dude idra says fag/retard/imbecile etc to people on the ladder nonstop...
If you have standards, have them for every1... and not just for the people you could do without...
Probably posted before, cant be arsed to read 120 pages. But you write n***** , i think of the word. To better understand my position and why i think this is out of proportions, see thid:
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
I lol'd really really hard. I actually fell out of my chair, this is so spot on.
Please don't play into our society's already regrettable anti-intellectualism. I'm not "offended," and I would suspect that my fellow bachelors (haha) aren't either. I do however feel that it's my dharma AS an intellectual to make some small effort to fight against the sophomoric entitlement and bad philosophy in this thread.
As a side note, in the academic community I am regularly on the other side of this debate, so please don't think I (and those also advocating this position) are some sort of dogmatic super PC fun police, because I'm not. I've been yelled at by way too many feminists, postcolonialists, and queer studies majors for that to be the case.
On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote: I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of.
On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote: [quote]
1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point).
You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck.
Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true?
yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids.
If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead?
Can't believe people think it's so black and white.
we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable?
Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina?
That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor.
That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have.
Why the hell do you care about words literally mean rather than the intention behind those words?
Because you asked a really fucking stupid question. "Am I saying it's bad to be a cunt when I call someone a cunt?". Not going to bother to respond to the rest. Have a good one, dude.
Don't be so childish. The answer is no. I'm calling someone a cunt because it's part of a list of "bad words".
You're not above me, you don't get to decide what my words mean.
Man I'm going to go make a sandwich right now.
Wait, that doesn't make any sense in context to responding to your post? Here's what I actually said if you understood my intentions:
There is a dictionary for that, and you are correct! I did not write the dictionary.
No but seriously, this is why I should just never post on these sorts of things. I have my views, you have yours whatever etc etc have a good one.
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
I lol'd really really hard. I actually fell out of my chair, this is so spot on.
Please don't play into our society's already regrettable anti-intellectualism. I'm not "offended," and I would suspect that my fellow bachelors (haha) aren't either. I do however feel that it's my dharma AS an intellectual to make some small effort to fight against the sophomoric entitlement and bad philosophy in this thread.
As a side note, in the academic community I am regularly on the other side of this debate, so please don't think I (and those also advocating this position) are some sort of dogmatic super PC fun police, because I'm not. I've been yelled at by way too many feminists, postcolonialists, and queer studies majors for that to be the case.
I hate anti-intellectualism as much as the next guy, but I don't think any reasonable ethical philosophy could establish that using offensive words (minus bigoted intent) in a state of anger (i.e. duress) is anything more than the most trivial of moral violations. What's more, I think you'd be laughed out of class if you tried to suggest, as Klondikebar did, that people who use the word "faggot" are actually homophobes, as if those casually using the word sit in the same category as the people executing gays in the Middle East.
On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote: I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of.
On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:
On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote: [quote]
Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true?
yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids.
If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead?
Can't believe people think it's so black and white.
we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable?
Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina?
That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor.
That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have.
Why the hell do you care about words literally mean rather than the intention behind those words?
Because you asked a really fucking stupid question. "Am I saying it's bad to be a cunt when I call someone a cunt?". Not going to bother to respond to the rest. Have a good one, dude.
Don't be so childish. The answer is no. I'm calling someone a cunt because it's part of a list of "bad words".
You're not above me, you don't get to decide what my words mean.
Man I'm going to go make a sandwich right now.
Wait, that doesn't make any sense in context to responding to your post? Here's what I actually said if you understood my intentions:
There is a dictionary for that, and you are correct! I did not write the dictionary.
Yeah latch onto a dictionary with very finite and incomplete definitions of words which oftentimes don't take into consideration the world's conjuncture which is what truly defines us. Remain a shallow individual.
On March 10 2012 02:09 shell wrote: So now that they got rid of Orb, they are going after idra? LOL
Dr. Dre says nigger every 5 minutes and sell millions of records?
What's next? people need to be black to say nigger? need to be gay to make gay jokes? need to be a jew to make jew jokes?
this is stupid (can i say this? i might offend stupid people)...
If you really need someone to explain to you the meaning of words depends on the context and their intent, and that Orb's use of the word as an insult is at minimum, offensive, than I support EG's decision all the more.
People that justify their apathy and overall lack of responsibility and discipline with 'freedom' or 'liberty' deserve this swift kick in the nuts.
On March 10 2012 02:09 0neder wrote: I agree with your observations on the use of the word racism and the discrepancy with its actual meaning.
However, racism much more rare than people that profit from maintaining the perception of it (including many who study what you did) make it out to be.
I have never used the 'n' word. I am repulsed by it's use. However, its use is not inherently racist, but merely linked to a time when racism was prevalent and the word was common.
Disagree. If you are using it as an insult, the entire implication of the usage is as follows: You are a n***** = You are black, therefore you are inferior, subhuman, etc.
If you're using it in a non-insulting context, it's not necessarily racist. However, the history of the word and its usage is almost entirely tied to black slavery in the US, and the belief of people of that time that blacks were inferior/below whites and deserved to be slaves. This is why even using the word at all is troubling, because it associates a person with the history and historical implications of the word. (even if, as I suspect in this case, that association is accidental)
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
I lol'd really really hard. I actually fell out of my chair, this is so spot on.
Please don't play into our society's already regrettable anti-intellectualism. I'm not "offended," and I would suspect that my fellow bachelors (haha) aren't either. I do however feel that it's my dharma AS an intellectual to make some small effort to fight against the sophomoric entitlement and bad philosophy in this thread.
As a side note, in the academic community I am regularly on the other side of this debate, so please don't think I (and those also advocating this position) are some sort of dogmatic super PC fun police, because I'm not. I've been yelled at by way too many feminists, postcolonialists, and queer studies majors for that to be the case.
I hate anti-intellectualism as much as the next guy, but I don't think any reasonable ethical philosophy could establish that using offensive words (minus bigoted intent) in a state of anger (i.e. duress) is anything more than the most trivial of moral violations. What's more, I think you'd be laughed out of class if you tried to suggest, as Klondikebar did, that people who use the word "faggot" are actually homophobes, as if those casually using the word sit in the same category as the people executing gays in the Middle East.
The issue is not a moral one. You do not understand my position. Nobody is listening to what I am saying here; I think tonight I will write a blog explaining in more detail. Please look for this. I will try to walk through some theory 101 and explain is some more detail why this issue is important.
EPT
