|
Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote:I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt.
This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable? Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina?
That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor.
That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have.
|
So now that they got rid of Orb, they are going after idra? LOL
Dr. Dre says nigger every 5 minutes and sell millions of records?
What's next? people need to be black to say nigger?
need to be gay to make gay jokes?
need to be a jew to make jew jokes?
this is stupid (can i say this? i might offend stupid people)...
|
On March 10 2012 02:06 Theovide wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:12 Technique wrote:
[quote]
I think you miss the point completely and tbh you should just laugh at those type of people instead of being all sensitive bout it...
Orb here being the perfect example... can't deal with losing to some canon rush and trying his hardest to offend his opponent... why not just laugh and feel pity? Instead of being all offended and crap... tho i do realize i'm posting this on TL... where people love drama...
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt. This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. No, but if someone says "fucking dickhead" to someone they are cleary using dickhead as a degenatory term, ie being a dickhead is something that the person does not consider to be positive. In the same way saying fucking f.. or fucking n.. implies that being gay and/or black is something bad. Thus it is racism/homophobic.
Pretty sure when you say that someone is a dickhead you're not actually trying to imply that their head is penis-shaped. You're just using a word as proxy for an extreme version of the phrase "I really don't like you." In this regard, nigger and faggot have come to be pretty much synonymous in that context, which is to say, as expletives. While it is certainly true that the reason these words are considered insults is because people historically considered it bad to be black/gay, the actual people speaking the words these days don't and treat them just as they'd treat any other insult.
|
It's very interesting how taboo "the N word" is in some countries. I've really only experienced racism in movies, so it seems strange to me to be obsessed about a word. The F|B words etc are all OK, though.
|
I agree with your observations on the use of the word racism and the discrepancy with its actual meaning.
However, racism much more rare than people that profit from maintaining the perception of it (including many who study what you did) make it out to be.
I have never used the 'n' word. I am repulsed by it's use. However, its use is not inherently racist, but merely linked to a time when racism was prevalent and the word was common.
|
On March 10 2012 02:06 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt.
This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable? Faggot IS a negatively loaded word, nigger IS a negatively loaded word. They're SUPPOSED to be used in a negative fashion, people THESE DAYS especially on the INTERNET use it as any other insult. If you wouldn't take everything so fucking literal as if the people who use those words were sitting with a dictionary to find a fitting insult your life would be a whole lot easier. NOTE: I'm not saying you're supposed to use those words, I'm saying that when you use them you use them to insult your opponent. Why do you read into it so much that you think every person who uses it tries to say that the black race aswell as gays are inferior?
They are negatively loaded words BECAUSE people use them instead of other words such as dickhead, fuckface or likewise, and the reason they are considered negatively loaded is because people think or at least though it is negatively loaded to be black or gay. You are implying that words create themselves and get a meaning that is totally unrelated to how they are used, which is silly. If we want less racism and less homophobism we should actively work towards f... and n... not being used in a degenatory way (possibly not being used in any way).
|
On March 10 2012 02:09 shell wrote:
So now that they got rid of Orb, they are going after idra? LOL
Dr. Dre says nigger every 5 minutes and sell millions of records?
What's next? people need to be black to say nigger?
need to be gay to make gay jokes?
need to be a jew to make jew jokes?
this is stupid (can i say this? i might offend stupid people)...
In the same way it is not offensive to say "I am stupid" (ie you should not get offended by yourself saying it) it is not as offensive to say gay jokes or black jokes as gay or black. Then again, Orb did not do a black joke, nor a gay joke, he used n... as a degenatory term which implies that being black is inferior to not being black.
|
Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended.
Stopped reading there. That's funny as shit and you know it. It would be equally funny if a bunch of black guys parodied the super nerdy white and asian guy stereotype (36.33%, repeating of course...) in a game.
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
|
brilliant piece of pr. way to through orb under fucking bus though, christ. kid didnt deserve that. this is completely ridiculous
|
We know that when people use those words there's not necessarily spoken with conscious hatred in mind. But when you've heard those words so, so many times uttered with hatred, disgust, violence, the hatred becomes a part of the word regardless of what the speaker's intent may have been. If you have the barest amount of basic human respect for racial minorities and LGBT people, just don't use slurs. Ever. It's never okay.
|
The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
I lol'd really really hard. I actually fell out of my chair, this is so spot on.
|
On March 10 2012 02:09 DrowSwordsman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote:I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of. On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:
[quote]
This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you...
So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable? Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina? That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor. That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have.
Why the hell do you care about words literally mean rather than the intention behind those words? The problem is not the meaning of the words, it's the misappropriation of literal sense to everything, even when it's not meant to be interpreted literally. This is bullshit and things are like that because they're overly sensitive.
I can call a friend a moron, because he knows that I'm not literally insulting his intelligence but I'm playfully calling him a derogatory label. But if I were to use the word nigger (which I don't) or faggot (which I do), then suddenly, my words have to be interpreted literally. What's this shit? Some words are SO BAD that they have no wiggle room? They're just fucking words - people always use words "wrong", or outside of their intended definition, and that's why I get to say "they're just fucking words". There are exceptions like these because we make them. Because the history behind those words is so bad, those words are somehow tainted.
I say I'm above that. I occasionally use the word "fucking" as punctuation, and that's not because I think lowly of sex. I'm the one who's consistent.
|
On March 10 2012 02:07 skatbone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:01 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:48 Merlimoo wrote:On March 10 2012 00:47 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:44 Merlimoo wrote:On March 10 2012 00:42 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all?
You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this The amount of rational explanation that you can contribute to this discussioin equals zero, thank you for that. It is fun that you think, what ever your peer group decides to do, is the way you should behave in public. Thank you for explaining to me, that you are not capable of defending your position with something else than exposing the amount of bigotry you are living with. The fact that you and your friends consider the term "Jew" to be an insult and not just the desciption of somebodys religious convictions makes me really sad. Hope you grow up, kiddo. He was trying to get you understand by your self that every group of people have different standard. And the one you and us live in is not necessarily the best because it is the biggest. Maybe you are not mature enough to step back a little and get it by yourself, kiddo. I do not have to accept the standards of people, if they are using inhumane language or practices. Or do you think, that as long as a group of people thinks it is ok to do something, they can do that? Dumbhead, it is exactly what he is saying to you. In his community, it is not offending. Why do prefer your version where it offends people? Geez... I do not meant to call FFGenerations a homophobic, racist, antisemite but he is using the language somebody with those characteristics would use. Well stated. The claim that words are just words ignores the fact that communication is action. And all this discussion of individual intent holds not water. While courts attempt to measure the intent of the prosecuted, in our day-to-day community interactions, we have to account for the effects of our actions EVEN IF THOSE EFFECTS WERE NOT INTENDED. Sensitivity and respect for others in a community is founded in recognizing that our actions (including our use of words) are never performed in an individual vacuum. People concerned that this is simple PC-politics are failing to recognize a much more complicated politics of the individual underlying this discussion. Thee notion that one can engage in any action is a purely individualistic fashion is a myth--in the U.S., it's bound up with the broader myth of liberal individualism. And it smacks, in this forum, of youthful entitlement and ignorance.
Skatbone, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
|
As I posted in Orb's apology thread, I think use of any of these words is unacceptable, not because they may cause outright offence (the n-word is certainly very offensive, but "gay" and "f----t" seem to somehow be considered less offensive) but because they subtly reinforce that it's somehow okay to make racist, sexist or homophobic comments.
I played WoW for a long time before coming to SC2, and we had a gay member in our guild. I liked him a lot, but one time I accidentally used "gay" in a negative insulting sense over voice chat, directed at someone or something in game, and deeply offended this guildmate. Our relationship never recovered, and it brought home to me that it's not okay to use racist, sexist or homophobic language in any context. At work I have occasionally had to gently point out to people that casual use of homophobic or sexist language is not acceptable, and my colleagues have always apologized and understood my position.
Alex, I think EG handled this really well. I have written to Intel, SteelSeries, Monster and Kingston expressing support for you and your team. It didn't take me long to write a generic piece of text supporting EG and then add a short paragraph for each sponsor about why I like them more because of their EG sponsorship. I'd advise anyone who actively likes EG to do the same. I've never bothered to write to your sponsors before, but I did this time because I feel you deserve special support for these actions.
I feel no ill will towards Orb. He made a mistake, I hope he's learnt from it, I hope he stops raging, and I hope he returns as a caster because I have always enjoyed his casts. The SC2 community will be diminished if he cannot eventually return to casting.
|
On March 10 2012 02:14 Hinanawi wrote:Show nested quote +
Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended.
Stopped reading there. That's funny as shit and you know it. It would be equally funny if a bunch of black guys parodied the super nerdy white and asian guy stereotype (36.33%, repeating of course...) in a game. The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
How about you wait with posting until you've read the whole thing
|
There is a general level of professionalism required for any job. If the job is very high profile, such as a CEO or a broadcaster, that level of professionalism needs to extend to every part of their life. It's extremely common for a CEO to be released because of a couple bad pictures when the CEO was younger, or similar. If people disagree with those pictures, the CEO's integrity, and the company he represents, is questioned. If a broadcaster's integrity is similarly questioned by a large population, then the company he represents, and the sponsors the company represents, are put into question. There is no other choice but to release the CEO, or the caster.
What constitutes professionalism? Certainly, there are a certain range of topics and ideas, and words, that are socially unacceptable in any professional setting.
I don't believe some people actually think that words such as "nigger," and "faggot," "jew," and, "hag" are acceptable in any shape or form. You seem to be confusing them with general insults such as "rape," "fuck" or "asshole." These are in no way the same, but years of ignorance of their actual meanings has really desensitized many people to them, mainly due to the lack of repercussions from their use in the Internet.
Rape, fuck, and asshole are simply insults. Nigger, faggot and hag were invented for the sole purpose of discrimination and oppression. When you use rape, fuck, and asshole, you don't carry around the entire history of their words with it. If you are educated at all in the history of nigger, faggot, and hag, you should understand how much hatred the words once carried, how insulting they once were, and how much pain they have inflicted. To use them is to insult that history, since by using them, you are ignoring their history for your own entertainment. By not using them, we hope that these words fade into obscurity, and the back of our minds, so that we're aware that they carry such terrible meaning and we never use them again, but we also hope that it's never used to bring that level of hatred again.
Some words are okay, some are bad, and others should never have existed in the first place.
|
On March 10 2012 02:14 Hinanawi wrote:Show nested quote +
Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended.
Stopped reading there. That's funny as shit and you know it. It would be equally funny if a bunch of black guys parodied the super nerdy white and asian guy stereotype (36.33%, repeating of course...) in a game. The Fun Police have arrived, and they have bachelor's degrees in getting offended.
Extremely funny.
|
On March 10 2012 02:18 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:09 DrowSwordsman wrote:On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote:I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of. On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:
[quote]
So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable? Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina? That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor. That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have. Why the hell do you care about words literally mean rather than the intention behind those words?
Because you asked a really fucking stupid question. "Am I saying it's bad to be a cunt when I call someone a cunt?".
If I ask you for peanut butter but if I actually want a steak from you, how the hell are you supposed to know that?!
If you don't mean it, don't say it. I can't be bothered to go into detail with the rest of this - it's obvious you feel okay about using racial slurs out of context, and whatever it's your life. What you said was just so hilariously stupid I couldn't not respond.
|
On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote:
But at this point in time, in contemporary society, there are relatively few people (especially compared to how things were in the mid-to-late 20th century) who actually believe in the aforementioned kinds of objectively-racist systems of thought. Aside from White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis (who still very much exist, don't get me wrong), and other extreme examples, most people in our age group just don't believe in that kind of racism. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that most of the people reading this post were taught that racism is bad, that racial equality is good, and that you shouldn't be racist. The fact is that these days, most people don't think they're racists, and don't want to be identified as being, or doing something racist. And yet, racism still occurs, and we all still say and do things to perpetuate it, whether consciously or unconsciously, intentionally or unintentionally. There's a great book about this sociological issue called "Racism without Racists," and if this kind of subject matter interests you, you'd be wise to check it out.
There is no racism without discrimination. Use of words that through time have added some negative meanings, along with the initial one, to express feelings related to those negative parts and unrelated to the original one, without any discriminatory ideas is not racist. It's slightly stupid but racist ...
I think there's plenty of mixes of words with no N or J that are racist and actually instigate hate crime, but as always the world focuses on form instead of filler, on words instead of facts. Because it simply works as a way to be able to say: look, we did something to help you, the law/rule says it; when it truth it has no effect because it had no weight, just cover.
|
On March 10 2012 02:09 DrowSwordsman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote:I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of. On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:
[quote]
This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you...
So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable? Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina? That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor. That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have.
but calling somebody a dick isn't saying its bad to be a man? which is a way more socially acceptable insult than cunt, they are all insults, so now people should get fired for calling somebody stupid or an asshole which is basically the same thing they are saying when calling somebody a nigger or faggot, calling somebody stupid to me is a lot worse than calling somebody a nigger because saying stupid is personal and nigger is the color of somebodies skin and isn't personal, not saying calling somebody stupid is worse than slavery or racism, but you just associate nigger with slavery and racism so thats why people are offended with it but i bet when orb said this he wasn't thinking "oh im going to call this guy a nigger because slavery was good" all insults are bad, they are all insults, it doesnt matter if you say fucking or freaking or dang or damn or shit or shoot its all the same shit. we should start firing everybody from every team that has said stupid because its offensive and insulting, right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
