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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 01:53 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:49 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:45 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:12 Technique wrote:
[quote]
I think you miss the point completely and tbh you should just laugh at those type of people instead of being all sensitive bout it...
Orb here being the perfect example... can't deal with losing to some canon rush and trying his hardest to offend his opponent... why not just laugh and feel pity? Instead of being all offended and crap... tho i do realize i'm posting this on TL... where people love drama...
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt. This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. I don't use this gaming slang actually or offensive words, w/e you want to call it... i'm just saying not to take the words so serious in this context... it's just some random kids trying to offend people and you are not gonna stop that as long as there is any kind of anonymity to it. Of course if 1 of them like orb then gets in the spotlight it can bite them in the ass... as has happened now, but that doesn't mean that EG ain't hypocrits, they knew what a rager he was before hiring him and effectively fired him now for stuff that happened before he got hired by EG. This "don't get offended" logic just puts the blame on the victim instead of the aggressor. It needs to stop. It is the exact opposite of progress. Why victim tho? Look if i canon rush some1 i know most of them are gonna rage when losing... i kinda find it funny actually, but if you get offended by it then they got what they want... Imo topics like ''post a screenshot of some1 raging'' are funny as well... out them and make fun of them, but don't take it to serious. because people are regularly victims of homophobia and racism...
In real life yes... but in a game where 2 people don't know each other and 1 that can't take a loss trying to offend the other it's something else no?
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It does sort of seem like a bummer that the posts were over a year old that got Orb fired, though as a whole I think this post is absolutely awesome and it's good to see this sort of support from the community. I am also a fan of Alex's sentiments that we should hold similar feelings for homophobic slurs, but this community (and unfortunately, most people in general) are not ready for that yet.
However, I do think tattling to sponsors anytime something goes wrong is the wrong way to go about things and at some point will hurt good teams and good people.
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On March 10 2012 01:56 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:53 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:49 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:45 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt.
This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. I don't use this gaming slang actually or offensive words, w/e you want to call it... i'm just saying not to take the words so serious in this context... it's just some random kids trying to offend people and you are not gonna stop that as long as there is any kind of anonymity to it. Of course if 1 of them like orb then gets in the spotlight it can bite them in the ass... as has happened now, but that doesn't mean that EG ain't hypocrits, they knew what a rager he was before hiring him and effectively fired him now for stuff that happened before he got hired by EG. This "don't get offended" logic just puts the blame on the victim instead of the aggressor. It needs to stop. It is the exact opposite of progress. Why victim tho? Look if i canon rush some1 i know most of them are gonna rage when losing... i kinda find it funny actually, but if you get offended by it then they got what they want... Imo topics like ''post a screenshot of some1 raging'' are funny as well... out them and make fun of them, but don't take it to serious. because people are regularly victims of homophobia and racism... In real life yes... but in a game where 2 people don't know each other and 1 that can't take a loss trying to offend the other it's something else no?
well exactly ur trying to offend the other trying to offend someone calling them a faggot or nigger is homophobic/racist and why is the internet different to real life its still real people behind the computer.
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On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:12 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:09 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:06 Technique wrote:
[quote]
It's just about saying stuff the other might not want to hear...
Saying that gays are inferior (whether I care about hearing it or not) is pretty much the definition of homophobia. I think you miss the point completely and tbh you should just laugh at those type of people instead of being all sensitive bout it... Orb here being the perfect example... can't deal with losing to some canon rush and trying his hardest to offend his opponent... why not just laugh and feel pity? Instead of being all offended and crap... tho i do realize i'm posting this on TL... where people love drama... You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt. This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids.
If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead?
Can't believe people think it's so black and white.
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And I think it's fucking hilarious that the people who wants to "save e-sports" are the same people that mail the sponsors, basically they shoot themselves in the foot rofl.
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I just realize the mass amount of EG haters on TLforum. Contacting and complaining to their sponsors is the dumbest thing you can ever do to kill an esport. Fucking kids these day.
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On March 10 2012 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:38 Shiori wrote:On March 10 2012 01:05 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:03 Zorkmid wrote:On March 10 2012 00:53 Shiori wrote:On March 10 2012 00:51 Zorkmid wrote:On March 10 2012 00:48 Klondikebar wrote:
If you think that faggot is an insult, then you think that calling someone gay is insulting. You think being gay is inferior to being straight. You are a homophobe. You are more than just insensitive.
I'm shocked that I have to explain in such great detail what should be common sense.
Holy shit man. When people use the word "faggot" it is to demean someone. It replaces jerk, asshole, things of that ilk. The way people use it IMPLIES that gays are inferior to straight people. You have this exactly backwards! I believe he's trying to rationalize his anger at the mere existence of the word by pretending that every person who utters it is some evangelical politician seeking to illegalize gay marriage. Or, I suppose he figures that's what everyone would be were we in a position of power. I guess more or less 99% of people in the English speaking world are homophobes. It's not really to do with homophobia per se, it's the implication that gays or blacks are inferior. How is the implication that gays are inferior not homophobia? It is homophobia to imply that gays are inferior, except your entire argument is predicated on the patently false assertion that words carry objective meaning. I'm going to apply my own meaning to your post then and interpret your post to mean you are a purple spotted unicorn with an affinity for apples rivaled only by the shinigami. I'm shocked that you would even assert something so foolish and I feel like you're just going to irrationally stick to your guns but in that case you should leave the meaningful discussion to the people who can actually communicate and understand one another.
Completely disingenuous and you know it.
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On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:12 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:09 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Saying that gays are inferior (whether I care about hearing it or not) is pretty much the definition of homophobia. I think you miss the point completely and tbh you should just laugh at those type of people instead of being all sensitive bout it... Orb here being the perfect example... can't deal with losing to some canon rush and trying his hardest to offend his opponent... why not just laugh and feel pity? Instead of being all offended and crap... tho i do realize i'm posting this on TL... where people love drama... You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt. This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white.
we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable?
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I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of.
On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:12 Technique wrote:
[quote]
I think you miss the point completely and tbh you should just laugh at those type of people instead of being all sensitive bout it...
Orb here being the perfect example... can't deal with losing to some canon rush and trying his hardest to offend his opponent... why not just laugh and feel pity? Instead of being all offended and crap... tho i do realize i'm posting this on TL... where people love drama...
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt. This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable?
Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina? Come on, it's number 732 on my lengthy list of interchangeable words that are thrown around haphazardly when people are angry. I call my friends faggots all the time - it has no meaning when I say it. They call me all kinds of things and it's all love, I swear. Some people say those things out of anger, but calling someone a nigger on a video game doesn't mean it's bad to be black - at least not necessarily.
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On March 10 2012 01:03 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:53 Shiori wrote:On March 10 2012 00:51 Zorkmid wrote:On March 10 2012 00:48 Klondikebar wrote:
If you think that faggot is an insult, then you think that calling someone gay is insulting. You think being gay is inferior to being straight. You are a homophobe. You are more than just insensitive.
I'm shocked that I have to explain in such great detail what should be common sense.
Holy shit man. When people use the word "faggot" it is to demean someone. It replaces jerk, asshole, things of that ilk. The way people use it IMPLIES that gays are inferior to straight people. You have this exactly backwards! I believe he's trying to rationalize his anger at the mere existence of the word by pretending that every person who utters it is some evangelical politician seeking to illegalize gay marriage. Or, I suppose he figures that's what everyone would be were we in a position of power. I guess more or less 99% of people in the English speaking world are homophobes. It's not really to do with homophobia per se, it's the implication that gays or blacks are inferior.
The whole point people are trying to make to you is that there is no such implication, simply because you infer something does not neccesitate that a speaker meant to imply what you inferred.
As a listener all you can do is infer, you have no capacity for deciding what a speaker intended to imply, your inferring ALWAYS runs a risk of missing the mark and being different from what the speaker intended to imply, this is the very nature of langauge.
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I think is ridiculous that you won't type the word "nigger", in any context no matter what. I have never been closer to going off on somebody on a forum. That is the kind of crap that holds back progress, and makes you look like a fool. Nobody is going call you a racist, and nobody is going to hate you for typing a word just because they don't like seeing it in print. And if they are they just as much of a hypocrite as you are for being afraid of it. Also, EG shouldn't be firing people for things they did while not under contract, even though they have done nothing of the sort since being associated with the organization.
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Was bound to happen with the growing audience/popularity of streams. Someone with some recognition had to take the fall, so that everyone in the same "business" would understand that he's not allowed to say x, y, z while on air and while being endorsed by products and companies. Has to suck for that one person, because everyone else will get a tabula rasa for past actions, just as long as he behaves and obeys from now on.
One more reason to further appreciate "independant" casters like imbaTV which dont have such uptight rules.
Welcome to the corporate world.
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On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:12 Technique wrote:
[quote]
I think you miss the point completely and tbh you should just laugh at those type of people instead of being all sensitive bout it...
Orb here being the perfect example... can't deal with losing to some canon rush and trying his hardest to offend his opponent... why not just laugh and feel pity? Instead of being all offended and crap... tho i do realize i'm posting this on TL... where people love drama...
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt. This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable?
Faggot IS a negatively loaded word, nigger IS a negatively loaded word. They're SUPPOSED to be used in a negative fashion, people THESE DAYS especially on the INTERNET use it as any other insult.
If you wouldn't take everything so fucking literal as if the people who use those words were sitting with a dictionary to find a fitting insult your life would be a whole lot easier.
NOTE: I'm not saying you're supposed to use those words, I'm saying that when you use them you use them to insult your opponent. Why do you read into it so much that you think every person who uses it tries to say that the black race aswell as gays are inferior?
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On March 10 2012 02:02 AspectOfEternity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:03 Zorkmid wrote:On March 10 2012 00:53 Shiori wrote:On March 10 2012 00:51 Zorkmid wrote:On March 10 2012 00:48 Klondikebar wrote:
If you think that faggot is an insult, then you think that calling someone gay is insulting. You think being gay is inferior to being straight. You are a homophobe. You are more than just insensitive.
I'm shocked that I have to explain in such great detail what should be common sense.
Holy shit man. When people use the word "faggot" it is to demean someone. It replaces jerk, asshole, things of that ilk. The way people use it IMPLIES that gays are inferior to straight people. You have this exactly backwards! I believe he's trying to rationalize his anger at the mere existence of the word by pretending that every person who utters it is some evangelical politician seeking to illegalize gay marriage. Or, I suppose he figures that's what everyone would be were we in a position of power. I guess more or less 99% of people in the English speaking world are homophobes. It's not really to do with homophobia per se, it's the implication that gays or blacks are inferior. The whole point people are trying to make to you is that there is no such implication, simply because you infer something does not neccesitate that a speaker meant to imply what you inferred. As a listener all you can do is infer, you have no capacity for deciding what a speaker intended to imply, your inferring ALWAYS runs a risk of missing the mark and being different from what the speaker intended to imply, this is the very nature of langauge.
Come on man.
Give me an example of when you were called a faggot and inferred that it was meant as a compliment.
edit: last post on the subject because my brain is going to explode.
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On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:12 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:09 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Saying that gays are inferior (whether I care about hearing it or not) is pretty much the definition of homophobia. I think you miss the point completely and tbh you should just laugh at those type of people instead of being all sensitive bout it... Orb here being the perfect example... can't deal with losing to some canon rush and trying his hardest to offend his opponent... why not just laugh and feel pity? Instead of being all offended and crap... tho i do realize i'm posting this on TL... where people love drama... You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt. This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white.
No, but if someone says "fucking dickhead" to someone they are cleary using dickhead as a degenatory term, ie being a dickhead is something that the person does not consider to be positive. In the same way saying fucking f.. or fucking n.. implies that being gay and/or black is something bad. Thus it is racism/homophobic.
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Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to racism. Being offended is a big issue nowadays. Would you not say that it
is subjective? Orb has always been bad mannered on battle.net ever since the beta. Using such disgraceful language, Orb
got what was coming to him. The N word has always caused problems since the slavery days but those times have been and
gone. The punishment is harsh but EG has a reputation which is has to maintain. Let's move on from this unfortunate event
and I hope Orb has learnt his lesson.
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So much foolishness and callous, casual bigotry in this thread. It's just awful.
Kudos to Alex and EG for making the only possible decision.
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On March 10 2012 02:06 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:40 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:38 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 01:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 01:35 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:24 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:16 Technique wrote:On March 10 2012 01:14 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You realize that homophobia (and bigotry in general) has led to murders, assaults, oppression, second class citizenry, and all sorts of atrocities? No, I'm not going to pity that bullshit logic and thought. I'm going to stamp it out before more people get hurt.
This is the internet... i think you should log off and be sensitive elsewhere tbh... cause you ain't gonna be having much of a good time if you let every kid yelling out crap get to you... So homophobia is acceptable because its the internet and its esports, bullshit. Kids need to be taught its not acceptable to be racist or homophobic and if we just ignore them its silent approval. It's not homophobia... just like not every1 who says nigger is instantly a racist... Like if 1 player says he's gonna rape another player... He's not actually gonna rape that person... you shouldn't take everything so black and white, especially when it comes to gaming and the internet. 1. The internet is not a safe haven for bigotry. It does not get any exemptions from "the real world." 2. Yes, using bigoted language is by definition bigoted. If you use homophobic language, you are a homophobe. If you use racist language, you are a racist (I do disagree with Alex on this point). You can use all the mental gymnastics to keep using your offensive words and feel good about yourself all you want but if it quacks like duck...it's a duck. Holy shit you actually believe what you say is true? yes he does and so do I, why is any homophobic language or racist language at all acceptable especially in the public eye, when people look up to people who they see in these casts especially kids. If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead? Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable? Faggot IS a negatively loaded word, nigger IS a negatively loaded word. They're SUPPOSED to be used in a negative fashion, people THESE DAYS especially on the INTERNET use it as any other insult. If you wouldn't take everything so fucking literal as if the people who use those words were sitting with a dictionary to find a fitting insult your life would be a whole lot easier.
Then im sorry you're a biggot and im not going to respond to you anymore its a complete waste of my time.
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On March 10 2012 01:01 zocktol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:48 Merlimoo wrote:On March 10 2012 00:47 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:44 Merlimoo wrote:On March 10 2012 00:42 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:
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No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this The amount of rational explanation that you can contribute to this discussioin equals zero, thank you for that. It is fun that you think, what ever your peer group decides to do, is the way you should behave in public. Thank you for explaining to me, that you are not capable of defending your position with something else than exposing the amount of bigotry you are living with. The fact that you and your friends consider the term "Jew" to be an insult and not just the desciption of somebodys religious convictions makes me really sad. Hope you grow up, kiddo. He was trying to get you understand by your self that every group of people have different standard. And the one you and us live in is not necessarily the best because it is the biggest. Maybe you are not mature enough to step back a little and get it by yourself, kiddo. I do not have to accept the standards of people, if they are using inhumane language or practices. Or do you think, that as long as a group of people thinks it is ok to do something, they can do that? Dumbhead, it is exactly what he is saying to you. In his community, it is not offending. Why do prefer your version where it offends people? Geez... I do not meant to call FFGenerations a homophobic, racist, antisemite but he is using the language somebody with those characteristics would use.
Well stated. The claim that words are just words ignores the fact that communication is action. And all this discussion of individual intent holds not water. While courts attempt to measure the intent of the prosecuted, in our day-to-day community interactions, we have to account for the effects of our actions EVEN IF THOSE EFFECTS WERE NOT INTENDED. Sensitivity and respect for others in a community is founded in recognizing that our actions (including our use of words) are never performed in an individual vacuum.
People concerned that this is simple PC-politics are failing to recognize a much more complicated politics of the individual underlying this discussion. Thee notion that one can engage in any action is a purely individualistic fashion is a myth--in the U.S., it's bound up with the broader myth of liberal individualism. And it smacks, in this forum, of youthful entitlement and ignorance.
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nice reaction i am impress with your professionalism
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EPT
