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On March 01 2012 18:12 MaestroSC wrote:
My favorite part is how his co-caster tries to bail him out OVER and OVER for 10-15 mins and he is just so intent on burrying himself.
His co-caster did everything short of muting this person intent on making himself look bad
Yeah, it's odd that he says in his post that he had no clue how angry people were getting.
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I can't believe they fired Katu over this....Poor bastard. The Starcraft 2 community is so strange...
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Definitely deserves punishment of some sort, totally disrespectful.
Dragon does an intelligent response by going for a defensive play when he scouts a second pair of lings (he may have even scanned, did they check?) and Katu accuses him of stream-cheating. I was never a fan of Katu's casting and now I'm even more disappointed with him.
Whether Dragon does have anything to do with cheating (can't say I know anything although I wouldn't imagine he cheats) is irrelevant, this is just pure unprofessional casting.
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Community is hypocrit
Dragon cheated in korea apearently and got severely punished for that apearently also
Mentioning this on stream while casting will get you into serious trouble though.
Streams should be happy.
No bad thing should ever be said on stream even if it is the truth.
People need to be kept unknowning of all the bad things because else they might turn against sc and players
Maybe katu went to far but he dont deserve this punishment.
He only stated what is apearently a well known fact.
sc community is realy strange indeed
the one disrespecting the community and fans was dragon btw, when he cheated.
Not katu when mentioning that he did.
He should not have said it but people need to see things in the right proportions
listen to the stream about what actually has been said.
About first time i heard katu casting btw, did kinda like him as a caster, besides the "incident"
(btw i always enjoyed watching dragons stream and i always did like him alot for his funny things he did on stream ,not only playing but also weird dances and stuff, and i will still like him just as much)
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I dont think this should even be about the "dragon stream cheater comment" i was more upset when i heard that he didn't care what the fans thought. I'm sorry but when your a caster for anything regardless what its for your supposed to be representing your company thats making its money from THE FANS. He said multiple times after the 4 hour mark that HE DID NOT CARE ABOUT THE FANS(or what they thought)
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On March 01 2012 20:06 Rassy wrote:
Community is hypocrit
Dragon cheated in korea apearently and got severely punished for that apearently also
Mentioning this on stream while casting will get you into serious trouble though.
Streams should be happy.
No bad thing should ever be said on stream even if it is the truth.
People need to be kept unknowning of all the bad things because else they might turn against sc and players
Maybe katu went to far but he dont deserve this punishment.
He only stated what is apearently a well known fact.
sc community is realy strange indeed
the one disrespecting the community and fans was dragon btw, when he cheated.
Not katu when mentioning that he did.
He should not have said it but people need to see things in the right proportions
listen to the stream about what actually has been said.
About first time i heard katu casting btw, did kinda like him as a caster, besides the "incident"
(btw i always enjoyed watching dragons stream and i always did like him alot for his funny things he did on stream ,not only playing but also weird dances and stuff, and i will still like him just as much)
Katu wasn't mentioning Dragon's past transgressions. He was accusing Dragon of cheating during the Playhem he was casting. The accusation was baseless, and retracted with the excuse of trolling later. That is why people got angry at Katu.
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On March 01 2012 20:06 Rassy wrote:
Community is hypocrit
Dragon cheated in korea apearently and got severely punished for that apearently also
Mentioning this on stream while casting will get you into serious trouble though.
Streams should be happy.
No bad thing should ever be said on stream even if it is the truth.
People need to be kept unknowning of all the bad things because else they might turn against sc and players
Maybe katu went to far but he dont deserve this punishment.
He only stated what is apearently a well known fact.
sc community is realy strange indeed
the one disrespecting the community and fans was dragon btw, when he cheated.
Not katu when mentioning that he did.
He should not have said it but people need to see things in the right proportions
listen to the stream about what actually has been said.
About first time i heard katu casting btw, did kinda like him as a caster, besides the "incident"
(btw i always enjoyed watching dragons stream and i always did like him alot for his funny things he did on stream ,not only playing but also weird dances and stuff, and i will still like him just as much)
I think you missed the mark ( by a lot ) this is not about what "dragon" did or did not do, this is about the actions and comments of a caster.
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On March 01 2012 20:06 Rassy wrote:
Community is hypocrit
Dragon cheated in korea apearently and got severely punished for that apearently also
Mentioning this on stream while casting will get you into serious trouble though.
Streams should be happy.
No bad thing should ever be said on stream even if it is the truth.
People need to be kept unknowning of all the bad things because else they might turn against sc and players
Maybe katu went to far but he dont deserve this punishment.
He only stated what is apearently a well known fact.
sc community is realy strange indeed
the one disrespecting the community and fans was dragon btw, when he cheated.
Not katu when mentioning that he did.
He should not have said it but people need to see things in the right proportions
listen to the stream about what actually has been said.
About first time i heard katu casting btw, did kinda like him as a caster, besides the "incident"
(btw i always enjoyed watching dragons stream and i always did like him alot for his funny things he did on stream ,not only playing but also weird dances and stuff, and i will still like him just as much)
Katu said things that were not true. He did not "only stated what is apearently a well known fact" (sic). He made up total bs lies. He said Dragon was banned from tournaments, that is not true. He said Dragon was kicked out of Slayers for cheating, that is not true.
Your post is proof of the harm done to Dragon by Katu. People like you are walking away from this thinking that everything he said was true when in fact it is not all true.
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Once a cheater always a cheater? No its not all about the actions and comment of a caster. the point is that reputation is important both in real life and in the sc2 community. however i do agree that the comment is inappropriate from a professional stand point. Since once broadcasted on air, its not just his personal opinion anymore. He is accusing someone publicly without proof. i think thats where he went wrong
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I posted about this recently on my blog: Here
Once again, it seems that some SC2 commentators have gotten themselves in a fix for unprofessional behaviour that have surfaced during their broadcasts. In particular, the most recent case involves KatuStarcraft in one of Playhem TV’s $75 Daily Tournaments where, long story short, he makes a couple of accusations against ex-SlayerS member Dragon for stream cheating during the tournament and the viewers got mad about it. Apparently, it has since led to his dismissal as a caster from Playhem TV.
Now, I’m all for commentators engaging in banter when there’s nothing much going on but these guys should be mindful of when ‘enough is enough’. Katu called it ‘trolling’ in his apology and even ‘trolling’ has its limits. The thing that really griped me was not that he called Dragon out for stream cheating or joked about Dragon’s build orders / decision making - it was the fact that he wasn’t mature enough, both as a person and as a commentator, to realise that he had taken the joke too far until shit had already hit the proverbial fan. His attitude towards the viewers when ‘apologising’ on air still carried a tone of nonchalance to many and it felt like he was brushing them off as petty or unimportant.
This reminds me sorely of an incident back sometime ago in the One Nation of Gamers tournament, where Stephano famously forfeited his finals because he was too tired to play. TumbaSC, one of the co-casters alongside MrBitter, apparently made a pretty inappropriate remark regarding the French in general. I’ll leave you to sieve through the details over here. Though nothing much was raised about TumbaSC, possibly due to everyone’s sights being trained on Stephano, it was still very unprofessional of Tumba to do so. Yes, we get frustrated when events don’t go the way it was planned or players themselves are disrespectful, but as a caster you have to stand away from all that.
Commentators, no matter which sport, have to recognise that they are the face AND voice of the organisations that they are commentating for. Yes, super star commentators like Day[9] and TotalBiscuit are less likely to be tied to the bonds of an organisation, unlike HDStarcraft (who works for IPL), but you don’t see them sprouting off nonsense inappropriately on air, do you?
The difference between top rate commentators like Day[9], Tastosis, djWHEAT etc and lesser known casters like Katu and Tumba is that in terms of professionalism, the former knows how to be professional even when things go wrong. It is not about exposure or the ‘game’ knowledge that everyone seems to keep harping on about - those things come eventually with experience and by being active in the community. In order to survive in a highly competitive market, top casters have to differentiate themselves from the crop by showing that they can be responsible with what they say on air.
Anyone can have a good understanding about build orders and strategies if they bother to sit down, read and learn the game. Anyone can try to be as entertaining as possible by talking, listening to their own voice and taking the painful steps to re-learn how they speak so that they would sound less monotonous and more interesting. It is, however, a lot more difficult to consciously ‘learn’ and prepare for a behaviour that happens in the heat of the moment - you absolutely have to be thinking about what you say before you say it.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not implying that commentators should in any way attempt to self-censor because that will do more harm than good. What I am saying is that commentators looking to go ‘pro’ should adopt a more professional attitude towards their work. Yes, it is eSports and everyone thinks that we shouldn’t try to be like the ‘real world’ and that we should have our own sets of rules - that’s fine - but the fact is, the responses that we are getting from episodes like this proves otherwise. The community, while vocally expressing the wish not to be like the real world, still has innate desires for professional behaviour to exist.
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On March 01 2012 20:06 Rassy wrote:
Community is hypocrit
Dragon cheated in korea apearently and got severely punished for that apearently also
Mentioning this on stream while casting will get you into serious trouble though.
Streams should be happy.
No bad thing should ever be said on stream even if it is the truth.
People need to be kept unknowning of all the bad things because else they might turn against sc and players
Maybe katu went to far but he dont deserve this punishment.
He only stated what is apearently a well known fact.
sc community is realy strange indeed
the one disrespecting the community and fans was dragon btw, when he cheated.
Not katu when mentioning that he did.
He should not have said it but people need to see things in the right proportions
listen to the stream about what actually has been said.
About first time i heard katu casting btw, did kinda like him as a caster, besides the "incident"
(btw i always enjoyed watching dragons stream and i always did like him alot for his funny things he did on stream ,not only playing but also weird dances and stuff, and i will still like him just as much)
You sir, are the living proof of how obnoxious Katu's actions are, unless you can give a reference or anything to confirm what Katu said.
It is not a well known fact, there is no mention of it in liquipedia.
As far as I know, Katu made out stuff out of thin air to damage Dragon's reputation. Because Dragon has a shaddy past, there are people who would believe it. Worse even, there are people like you, who would spread the rumor that "it is well known" without even checking the facts, unless of course you can provide sources to back up those affirmations.
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On March 01 2012 20:06 Rassy wrote:
Community is hypocrit
Dragon cheated in korea apearently and got severely punished for that apearently also
Mentioning this on stream while casting will get you into serious trouble though.
Streams should be happy.
No bad thing should ever be said on stream even if it is the truth.
People need to be kept unknowning of all the bad things because else they might turn against sc and players
Maybe katu went to far but he dont deserve this punishment.
He only stated what is apearently a well known fact.
sc community is realy strange indeed
the one disrespecting the community and fans was dragon btw, when he cheated.
Not katu when mentioning that he did.
He should not have said it but people need to see things in the right proportions
listen to the stream about what actually has been said.
About first time i heard katu casting btw, did kinda like him as a caster, besides the "incident"
(btw i always enjoyed watching dragons stream and i always did like him alot for his funny things he did on stream ,not only playing but also weird dances and stuff, and i will still like him just as much)
You don't get it do you? Katu didn't say the truth, he made up a bunch of shit about dragon that wasn't true. That's why everyone's pissed. Also his horrible trolling attitude and his making fun of the audience. If he said the truth which was "dragon got caught stream cheating once and apologized" he would've been telling the truth. However, he said "dragon stream cheated while in slayers and got caught and kicked out of slayers for it and is banned from GSL." None of that is true, hence what he did is called defamation of character.
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Poll: Katu should....Death Sentence (67) 27% Take a temporary break from Playhem (59) 24% take a permanent "break" from Playhem (46) 18% No Punishment (44) 18% Let off with a public apology (18) 7% No punishment (7) 3% Let off with a warning (5) 2% Pay a small monetary fine (under 3 digits) (2) 1% Pay a large monetary fine (over 3 digits) (1) 0% 249 total votes Your vote: Katu should.... (Vote): Pay a small monetary fine (under 3 digits)
(Vote): Take a temporary break from Playhem
(Vote): take a permanent "break" from Playhem
(Vote): No Punishment
(Vote): Let off with a warning
(Vote): Let off with a public apology
(Vote): No punishment
(Vote): Pay a large monetary fine (over 3 digits)
(Vote): Death Sentence
User was temp banned for this post.
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I voted death sentence and hopes this will lead the poll, to underline the slight ridiculousness of the situation.
From a viewer perspective, it all sounded perfectly OK until he implied Dragon was actually stream sniping in that very game. Which, because of the blatant lack of proof, sounded more stupidly bold than anything.
Apart from that, simply mentioning that Dragon did stream snipe before was informative and fine, to me. Being suspicious about Dragon flying the factory over the reactor, only to fly it back and put a tech lab while not scouting is simply being ignorant : Dragon does it a lot, to fool the Zergs. A mistake which, more than insulting the player, ended up making the caster look bad.
Should be more cautious and less cocky, I suppose...
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Nothing too serious here, to be honest. Community is fucking full of ridiculous children, jesus fucking christ.
He made some bad jokes, yeah. A little distasteful. But, to be honest, I was really disappointed after all the hype when I listened to the VOD.
Was expecting plenty of racial slurs/condemning of Dragon as a terrible terrible person and instead all I got were a few stupid references to stream cheating etc...
Grow the fuck up, people.
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On March 02 2012 03:44 Destiny wrote:
Nothing too serious here, to be honest. Community is fucking full of ridiculous children, jesus fucking christ.
He made some bad jokes, yeah. A little distasteful. But, to be honest, I was really disappointed after all the hype when I listened to the VOD.
Was expecting plenty of racial slurs/condemning of Dragon as a terrible terrible person and instead all I got were a few stupid references to stream cheating etc...
Grow the fuck up, people.
So making up information about someones past is perfectly fine? You wouldn't mind it if you were ever being casted if the commentator goes "yeah and destiny was kicked out of complexity for stream cheating." You notice how the things said would hurt the persons character and at the same time not be true? Notice how the things he said about dragon weren't true? Like being kicked out of slayers, or stream cheating while in slayers, or being banned from tournaments? Notice how there's already tons of people in this thread who think what he said was true because they have no clue about anything related to dragon but watched the cast?
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On March 01 2012 10:26 Peqqz wrote:Show nested quote +
Embarrasing butthurt babies. Dragon even cheated during the finals. I know because HIS twitch account was in the viewer list
Dragon streamed at the same time and he NEVER tapped out of the Game to Cheat. So what are you talkin' ?! Kinda funny how stupid some ... naah i dont wanna rage
double monitor? amazing how u can call people stupid with your overall understanding of the situation.
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I watched the relevant portion of the VoD, and what really struck me wasn't the controversial stuff that Katu said. Having an analyst say something controversial on TV about a professional athlete isn't terribly uncommon. Some sports media personalities are more notorious for this kind of behavior than others.
What really stuck out to me was how Katu handled the situation after he noticed the backlash. Both he and Bonk were trying to downplay the situation as, "Oh he was just trolling." "I'm just trolling" is not a get-out-fail-free card to let you get away with saying whatever you want. It's like people who make some comment, and then follow it up with "I'm just saying", as if the phrase "I'm just saying" excuses everything they just said.
Want e-sports to grow? Casters need to take responsibility for what they say. None of this "I'm just trolling" as an excuse to try and save face. The supposed apology he gave on air later in the cast wasn't even an apology.
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On March 01 2012 23:00 dionjcejd wrote:
Once a cheater always a cheater? No its not all about the actions and comment of a caster. the point is that reputation is important both in real life and in the sc2 community. however i do agree that the comment is inappropriate from a professional stand point. Since once broadcasted on air, its not just his personal opinion anymore. He is accusing someone publicly without proof. i think thats where he went wrong
this is true. cheaters do cheat again. its not that they're bad people and fundamentally flawed per say, its that people never change. and being rewarded by being forgiven is simple pavlovian training to cheat again.
you have to make a clean break. the same holds true for cheaters in sports or other competitions.
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On March 02 2012 03:57 eXeJJu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 10:26 Peqqz wrote:
Embarrasing butthurt babies. Dragon even cheated during the finals. I know because HIS twitch account was in the viewer list
Dragon streamed at the same time and he NEVER tapped out of the Game to Cheat. So what are you talkin' ?! Kinda funny how stupid some ... naah i dont wanna rage double monitor? amazing how u can call people stupid with your overall understanding of the situation.
If you had watched Dragon's stream more than a few times you would know that he never hides things on another monitor because he doesn't have one. Everything he does is up on the stream. Whether its looking at chat or twitter its on that main screen. So yes it is amazing how some people can call others stupid without an intelligent overall understand of the situation.
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EPT
