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I've decided to finally bring up something which I see somewhat often, but never really thought much of it. In short, sometimes a single SCV will be sent to attack a scouting enemy worker, and the SCV will simply not give chase until it is close to the enemy unit. Terran players may be familiar with the scenario where a Toss scouts you quite early, and harasses the SCV building the first rax. Obviously this is easily countered by simply pegging another SCV on the probe, but sometimes this annoying bug gets in the way.
Here is a 4 panel illustration that I hope clarifies what I mean.
In #1, the SCV is sent (from a fairly far distance) to attack the probe. As you can see by the blue targeting circle, the attack button was pressed and the probe was left clicked.
#2, Though the probe appears to still be targeted by the SCV, the SCV is not heading in its direction...
#3, ...and the SCV has seemingly ignored the probe, moving past it even though the attack command is still active.
#4, the SCV finally attacks the probe after manually being brought closer to the unit.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2aW3t.jpg)
So.. why does this happen and how can I stop it? Is this due to the enemy clicking on the minerals to move? Seems strange since attack move was not used, but a direct attack command.
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you sure you didn't click on the ground after you right clicked the probe? if not, then there is no way for him to make you drop your command AFAIK
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You clicked the ground instead of the probe. Image 2 shows hes going towards where you clicked.
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On February 24 2012 12:11 Silidons wrote:
you sure you didn't click on the ground after you right clicked the probe? if not, then there is no way for him to make you drop your command AFAIK
The SCV is selected, and there is a blue attack ring around the probe simultaneously.
Interesting problem.
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I've had this happen with my workers as well...
I have no explanation, but my remedy is just to keep issuing attack commands as you approach.
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On February 24 2012 12:15 Torte de Lini wrote:
You clicked the ground instead of the probe. Image 2 shows hes going towards where you clicked.
but the attack command is highlighted and there is a blue circle around the probe. I've noticed similar problems, but I always just assumed it was because I mis-clicked or something.
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On February 24 2012 12:15 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:11 Silidons wrote:
you sure you didn't click on the ground after you right clicked the probe? if not, then there is no way for him to make you drop your command AFAIK The SCV is selected, and there is a blue attack ring around the probe simultaneously. Interesting problem.
The attack ring is red, not blue.
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I hate this, always happens to me. Only as Terran though.
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This has happened to me, although I don't recall it completely moving past the probe. It usually just goes in the general direction, and then without doing anything it's like "oh yeah, I'm supposed to attack him"
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This is the most annoying thing while a zerg is trying to kill the scv trying to build that 1st rax
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My biggest issue with this is for example when you have to pull your SCVs to hold a 4gate or something and they decide to go off on their own and end up getting blocked or Force Fielded by not attacking from the angle i wanted.
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maybe it's because it's mineral walking?
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this happens to me with my stalker/zealot against a scouting worker sometimes
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On February 24 2012 12:19 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:15 Chargelot wrote:On February 24 2012 12:11 Silidons wrote:
you sure you didn't click on the ground after you right clicked the probe? if not, then there is no way for him to make you drop your command AFAIK The SCV is selected, and there is a blue attack ring around the probe simultaneously. Interesting problem. The attack ring is red, not blue.
The pictures are from a replay. The attack rings from the blue player will be blue.
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upload the replay and we can see where you clicked.
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It is happening to me aswell, it is pretty annoying, blizzard sure tests things out before releasing them :>.
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I've never experienced this, but I think I always right click on workers to attack them.
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As Terran, this is really fustrating. Blizzard really needs to fix this ASAP. Can't tell you how many times this has cost me an scv from harrassing workers.
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On February 24 2012 12:37 kofman wrote:
As Terran, this is really fustrating. Blizzard really needs to fix this ASAP. Can't tell you how many times this has cost me an scv from harrassing workers.
Yeah, You have to babysit the SCV like in BW now TT.
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On February 24 2012 12:36 Saria wrote:
I've never experienced this, but I think I always right click on workers to attack them.
Same here, why are you using attack+left click command for them? Seems like just unnecessary apm for something where a single click does the exact same thing. I've never had this happen to me in a game o.0
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yes its annoying, i stopped targeting opponents worker and just a-move my scv which fixed this problem
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This happens to me almost every time I send my scv to attack the probe at this phase in the game. To me it's just been an annoying behavior that I've never thought about as a glitch, but I suppose it probably is a mistake in the coding. It happens both when I right click on the probe AND when I just use the "a-move" command.
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are you talknig about the SCV basically going to where the probe used to be when you issued the command?
This happens when you raise/lower supply depots as well. For whatever reason, the pathing doesnt update properly.
You can even keep left clicking your scv once the depot is lowered and it will keep thinking the path is blocked for a short time.
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There are three seconds between Picture #1 and Picture #2.
That leads me to assume that the probe could have left your vision and came back in. That would have stopped the attack command. Please provide the replay. It's all guessing without.
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I've seen this same problem, with workers of all races, and only when issuing direct attack commands on units that remain in my vision for the duration of the attack command.
I didn't see it at all before the patch.
I assume it's just a glitch, and an easily corrected one at that.
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And I thought I was the only one ^_^.
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Can someone please post the replay? the pictures are useless, it's impossible for anyone to tell what the problem is. I haven't had this happen to me...but it seems like it could be a new glitch considering the number of ppl saying this has happened to them. Someone post a replay!!?
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yup this happens to me all the time. After years of units not listening to me in broodwar, I kind of ignore it most of the time. What I do is just keep a-moving towards the probe instead of just a-clicking onto it now. But I do hope that it gets fixed soon.
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I've never had this happen but don't think I have ever attack left clicked a single unit before...
Why not just right click?
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I don't feel very good about posting this particular replay, as me and the opponent ended up BMing each other quite a bit and I don't really want to soil a good players name just because of some cheese. I'll try to recreate it in a custom game.
As for the "why not just right click?" Well it's kind of a micro habit I have, in the past when I right clicked on units sometimes, I would click the ground instead and my units would briefly stop firing and march to their deaths. With attack click even if you miss the unit with your mouse at least your units are still attacking.
Edit: I can't seem to recreate this, got someone to run a worker up the ramp and I repeated the actions in the images provided, but this time the SCV "became aware" of the probe much sooner and immediately made a beeline for it.
The LOS issue: nope, the probe was in sight of the Terran the whole time, the barracks provided enough vision and the player positioned it right next to the rax.
The mineral walking issue: I watched from the Toss player view, and he did not mineral walk, he was clicking on the ground the entire time.
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On February 24 2012 12:19 vileIllusion wrote:
I hate this, always happens to me. Only as Terran though.
It happens as all races, not sure what causes it
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On February 24 2012 13:38 Penecks wrote:
I don't feel very good about posting this particular replay, as me and the opponent ended up BMing each other quite a bit and I don't really want to soil a good players name just because of some cheese. I'll try to recreate it in a custom game.
As for the "why not just right click?" Well it's kind of a micro habit I have, in the past when I right clicked on units sometimes, I would click the ground instead and my units would briefly stop firing and march to their deaths. With attack click even if you miss the unit with your mouse at least your units are still attacking.
Almost every progamer focus-fires in the same manner you do. Right-clicking messes everything if you misclick
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On February 24 2012 12:45 godulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:36 Saria wrote:
I've never experienced this, but I think I always right click on workers to attack them. Same here, why are you using attack+left click command for them? Seems like just unnecessary apm for something where a single click does the exact same thing. I've never had this happen to me in a game o.0
If you right click a unit and miss, you will either 1) waste more time clicking the right unit, or 2) not notice and your unit will move rather than attacking.
If you a + click and miss the unit, whatever you selected will still attack
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This happens to me all the time and it seems to be an issue with the AI.
If you a click directly on the probe as it is comming in the scv kinda wanders past it before starting to chase. I don't know why this happens, but what i've done is just a-click the ground near the probe until I see the scv pathing is correct and the scv is chasing the probe, then I a-click the probe.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
OMG! i thought this was only happening because i misclicked a lot. thank goodness other people experience it too.
edit: i get this problem with terran the most. zerg and protoss maybe once or twice, but it's mostly scvs that decide to chill the fuck out at the worst times
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On February 24 2012 12:45 godulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:36 Saria wrote:
I've never experienced this, but I think I always right click on workers to attack them. Same here, why are you using attack+left click command for them? Seems like just unnecessary apm for something where a single click does the exact same thing. I've never had this happen to me in a game o.0
I think it's a good habit to always A-click to target one unit instead of right clicking. One right misclick and all your units are dead without doing nothing, if you A-click on the ground, at least it A-moves.
So while in this case it pretty much doesn't change anything (there is even the possibility of misclicking and attacking your own building and SCV with an A-click :D), people are used to A-click because it's just better in most cases of target firing.
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Yes! I had a feeling scvs were a bit derpy! Most of the time I just assumed I had misclicked.
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Interesting, I've never had it happen to me oddly enough. Probably because I always just right-click on Probes when they're in my base.
Though, I do attack-click when I focus fire during battles.
On February 24 2012 12:35 Silidons wrote:
upload the replay and we can see where you clicked.
This is also a good idea to clear up controversy.
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Im sure he is just confused because all the nerfs..give him a break 
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interesting i just right click the worker, so i never experienced this, but i am familiar with the pathfinding problems supply depots cause.
But i guess if you are afraid of missclicking a targetfire its good to always to the same. I just was worried, because people are right that right clicking might cause evil movement commands, so after checking a replay i noticed that i do target fire with attack move, just not the scouting worker. Funny ... maybe its because i am used to spam right click on the opponent worker as it speeds up the attack of the scv ... yes bw is fun.
But that sounds really annoying. I would say though if its on blizzards list, its pretty much at the end as its just a minor pathfinding problem, that would need alot of code fixing.
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This would be great with a video added, to really show how much of a problem this is.
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Working as intended.... but seriously anyone want to upload a replay of this happening so people can check that it isn't just mass hysteria and misclicking?
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I've had this problem all the damn time, but I never thought of it as a glitch or even gave it a second glance. I guess it probably is a problem with the pathfinding, though.
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I main protoss and never have this problem with probes. HOWEVER I frequently see this behaviour almost every time I offrace terran, glad to see it's not just me.
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ahhh yes this happens to me a lot too..really sucks that you have to give your scv that much more attention when a worker comes into the base
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Yeah my scvs do this all the time. They first go where the probe was when you clicked and then proceed to chase the probe that is already miles away.
EDIT: http://drop.sc/118833
At 2:30 it happens. Doesn't happen every time. At ~5 minutes it happens again
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Having watched the replay I think it may be an intentional feature of the engine. It seems that if the target is obscured by some obstacle the scv will follow the intial path to the targeted location before retargeting what was actually clicked on.
-In the first diagrams the probe was initially behind the barracks.
-In the replay at 2.30 I think the scv was slightly obstructed by the warping in gateway and at 5~ the probe was behind the geiser.
This behavior actually makes sense as computing pathing around immovable features (buildings, terrain etc) is expensive. Thus making the unit follow a strict path if there are obstacles in the way is cost efficient as checking whether the current path is best every single frame is pretty crazy especially if you consider dozens of units doing this. The engine might recompute paths once every few seconds to stop this happening in some instances but in these cases the paths were quite short.
This is the best explaination I can come up with atm. Could be completely wrong and this doesn't seem to address why people seem to experience this more with scvs than with probes/drones.
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On February 24 2012 18:10 InPlainSight wrote:
Having watched the replay I think it may be an intentional feature of the engine. It seems that if the target is obscured by some obstacle the scv will follow the intial path to the targeted location before retargeting what was actually clicked on.
-In the first diagrams the probe was initially behind the barracks.
-In the replay at 2.30 I think the scv was slightly obstructed by the warping in gateway and at 5~ the probe was behind the geiser.
This behavior actually makes sense as computing pathing around immovable features (buildings, terrain etc) is expensive. Thus making the unit follow a strict path if there are obstacles in the way is cost efficient as checking whether the current path is best every single frame is pretty crazy especially if you consider dozens of units doing this. The engine might recompute paths once every few seconds to stop this happening in some instances but in these cases the paths were quite short.
This is the best explaination I can come up with atm. Could be completely wrong and this doesn't seem to address why people seem to experience this more with scvs than with probes/drones.
It looks like a pretty good one, especially since Terrans tend to have their buildings out in the middle, while Zergs have their buildings near their hatcheries, and Protoss' have them either very close to their nexus, or are using them to wall off.
It'd need testing though, maybe someone could organize it.
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To all who think he missclicked, he didn't, I can't believe not everyone experienced it, it happens all games, and yeah, it's extremely boring.
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Just to add to what I said, I messed around in the unit tester and I could only recreate the conditions when units were behind buildings but also some distance away, like 15 tiles or so. Having looked at the posted replay above the first instance of the behavior seems actually be something different as it wasn't really obstructed. I think it is pretty hard to diagnose the specific cause of the problem but I would guess that it is some kind of clash between the unit pathing and waypointing systems or some edge case where units behave differently towards targets at certain distances or maybe a combination of both.
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What happens if you attack the probe and shift-queue attack commands on it? This would be similar to Zergs attack-shift-queuing SCVs building things.
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ive seen this many times.... but it's not unusual.
you require 10 clicks to counter his 1 click, that's pretty normal in TvP :D
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EPT
