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I agree with this. It actually crossed my mind earlier that it would be quite obnoxious to have a stream link on TL redirecting you to a payment page or something.
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On February 23 2012 19:17 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 19:11 mr_tolkien wrote:On February 23 2012 18:08 archonOOid wrote:
why are tl taking a political stance? i can't really comprehend the reasoning behind the decision. ppv streams are a part of the future streaming landscape but tl thinks otherwise. however tl isn't equal to all of the sc2 community and mlg.tv is a well known website. TL is a website ruled by Nazgul and he does what he wants. And he's pretty right on that one, this MLG even sounds like an utter failure. TL is a website run by the admin and reds. This was not a decision taken lightly; the reds had a very long discussion about it. Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 19:11 syllogism wrote:On February 23 2012 19:05 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 23 2012 18:49 syllogism wrote:On February 23 2012 18:24 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 23 2012 18:23 rasnj wrote:
I strongly disagree with this. This is a community site and from a community point of view it seems clear that there are practically no cons (slight clutter of calendar, nothing compared to daily showmatches, EU rebroadcasts and daily tournaments) even for non-viewers, but plenty of pros for viewers. Obviously TL can do whatever they want and do not need to succumb to popular opinion, but I really feel they are doing themselves and the community a disservice by refusing to act as an ultimate portal of MLG activity like it is with all other tournaments. You don't get it. Teamliquid puts your name on that list and you get people and they get free stream. For MLG, they put you on that list, you get people and they get..... Teamliquid doesn't have to "get" anything. The only issue here is, besides TL potentially taking a political stance, whether the calendar better serves users by not including a very major event. If the answer is yes, then the decision is correct. If TL thinks the main purpose of the calendar is to inform the community when events are being streamed for free, then again that is correct. However, if the calendar aims to be informative and TL is more about starcraft news in general than just free streams, the decision is wrong. I believe any reasonable person would conclude the latter is more reasonable. First of all "they" was referring to the people/members not TL organization. Second, hearing about a product is what advertising means. TL is not obligated to share your product to the rest of the community since the majority of the community may not benefit from hearing the news. So they can't do MLG a free service that is not a direct benefit to the community (indirectly it is, if you pay for MLG). And if you include "any reasonable person would think like me" is not helping you argument. You are just trying to force an argument win. An event being on calendar offers a direct benefit: information. Moreover, knowing that an event is taking place does not harm anyone and it doesn't make the calendar any less useful overall. The fact informing TL users also provides some free advertising is not harming anyone and informing is better than not informing. As Hot_bid explained, we realise that the calendar is a very useful source of information for our users. But not only is it informative, but it also is a very effective form of advertising - particularly when on air or leading up to the event. Having a constant display reminding everyone about an event is a very useful tool for tournament organisers to gain more viewers. In this situation, and after a lot of discussion, we decided that it is more of an advertising tool than it is an informative tool. And as such, we have made the decision you read in the OP.
While I actually read the OP, I actually admit that I came into it expecting it to be about the utility vs information, but I now see that it is more about the fact that TL needs to sustain itself and therefore does not want to provide free advertising. This is a reasonable position and I withdraw my complaints.
It is, however, perplexing how many people are thanking TL for the decision.
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On February 23 2012 19:25 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 19:17 Plexa wrote:On February 23 2012 19:11 mr_tolkien wrote:On February 23 2012 18:08 archonOOid wrote:
why are tl taking a political stance? i can't really comprehend the reasoning behind the decision. ppv streams are a part of the future streaming landscape but tl thinks otherwise. however tl isn't equal to all of the sc2 community and mlg.tv is a well known website. TL is a website ruled by Nazgul and he does what he wants. And he's pretty right on that one, this MLG even sounds like an utter failure. TL is a website run by the admin and reds. This was not a decision taken lightly; the reds had a very long discussion about it. On February 23 2012 19:11 syllogism wrote:On February 23 2012 19:05 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 23 2012 18:49 syllogism wrote:On February 23 2012 18:24 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 23 2012 18:23 rasnj wrote:
I strongly disagree with this. This is a community site and from a community point of view it seems clear that there are practically no cons (slight clutter of calendar, nothing compared to daily showmatches, EU rebroadcasts and daily tournaments) even for non-viewers, but plenty of pros for viewers. Obviously TL can do whatever they want and do not need to succumb to popular opinion, but I really feel they are doing themselves and the community a disservice by refusing to act as an ultimate portal of MLG activity like it is with all other tournaments. You don't get it. Teamliquid puts your name on that list and you get people and they get free stream. For MLG, they put you on that list, you get people and they get..... Teamliquid doesn't have to "get" anything. The only issue here is, besides TL potentially taking a political stance, whether the calendar better serves users by not including a very major event. If the answer is yes, then the decision is correct. If TL thinks the main purpose of the calendar is to inform the community when events are being streamed for free, then again that is correct. However, if the calendar aims to be informative and TL is more about starcraft news in general than just free streams, the decision is wrong. I believe any reasonable person would conclude the latter is more reasonable. First of all "they" was referring to the people/members not TL organization. Second, hearing about a product is what advertising means. TL is not obligated to share your product to the rest of the community since the majority of the community may not benefit from hearing the news. So they can't do MLG a free service that is not a direct benefit to the community (indirectly it is, if you pay for MLG). And if you include "any reasonable person would think like me" is not helping you argument. You are just trying to force an argument win. An event being on calendar offers a direct benefit: information. Moreover, knowing that an event is taking place does not harm anyone and it doesn't make the calendar any less useful overall. The fact informing TL users also provides some free advertising is not harming anyone and informing is better than not informing. As Hot_bid explained, we realise that the calendar is a very useful source of information for our users. But not only is it informative, but it also is a very effective form of advertising - particularly when on air or leading up to the event. Having a constant display reminding everyone about an event is a very useful tool for tournament organisers to gain more viewers. In this situation, and after a lot of discussion, we decided that it is more of an advertising tool than it is an informative tool. And as such, we have made the decision you read in the OP. While I actually read the OP, I actually admit that I came into it expecting it to be about the utility vs information, but I now see that it is more about the fact that TL needs to sustain itself and therefore does not want to provide free advertising. This is a reasonable position and I withdraw my complaints. It is, however, perplexing how many people are thanking TL for the decision.
Because you don't see the irony. MLG doesn't want to pay for advertising while they have a PPV system. You need to pay to make money like (as they say) we need to pay to watch StarCraft 2.
Eye for an eye, even if the world goes blind.
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Uhhh, the thin line between information and advertising....
It's also shaddy with GSL, since the link redirects us to the GOM site. But the fact that GSL isn't PPV makes it less like advertising and more like information.
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Thank god. Don't assist MLG in stunting SC2's growth way before it's established enough to try to get away with highway robbery like this.
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Well fucking done TL, great job!
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This is actually very reasonable decision and I support it fully.
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Now I love TL even more, huge respect for doing this. Very good decision.
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nice TL
hope mlg will realize that losing 70% of the viewers and not being featured on TL calendar is actually a bad thing eventhough they get 20$ from everyone that pays
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Like that you guys are "taking a stand" I agree with your decision, even if I didnt I would respect the fact that you are making a statement.
<3 Teamliquid
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TL and EG sharing views on a similar subject. Quality backing by two big organizations.
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TLs stance on not featuring the arena on the calender is not a stance on the ppv issue. they're completely different things.
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Completely agree. 100% The right choice.
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On February 23 2012 19:10 Plexa wrote:Liquipedia will also be updated, as usual. The only thing that is changing is that there will be no calendar entry.
Yeah who will ? I know Blazh0r will and he alone can do everything but we can't rely on him to pay 80$ per year. I feel very uncomfortable with that situation. Sure we are all volunteers but our work on the MLG bracket is crucial because it is well done, updated very swiftly and also almost always correct. I remember different times where blazh0r had us redo the bracket on LP because the MLG ones were wrong.
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Haha, now that I understand this is about Teamliquid wanting to be compensated for advertising, I've decided this is an awesome decision.
At first I was annoyed, though 
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hmmm really interesting to see in which direction mlg is headded in the future. plus this can't be a supprise for them. as they are in daily contact with tl (and probably other teams as well) they should've seen thisone comming...
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Will the stream timings/links be linked in the LR threads?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 23 2012 20:25 bmml wrote:
Will the stream timings/links be linked in the LR threads?
We won't stop them from being linked, but it is up to the creator of the LR thread to decide ultimately 
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EPT
