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Team Reign Disbands - Page 36

Forum Index > SC2 General
743 CommentsPost a Reply
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VTPerfect
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-19 00:08:02
February 18 2012 23:52 GMT
#701
nevermind
VillageBC
Profile Joined January 2011
322 Posts
February 19 2012 02:18 GMT
#702
It didn't make sense for IGN to be promoting a league as well as a team. Doesn't change the fact that it's still a shame though. Kiwikaki to EG.
antilyon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Brazil2546 Posts
February 19 2012 02:22 GMT
#703
On February 19 2012 11:18 VillageBC wrote:
It didn't make sense for IGN to be promoting a league as well as a team. Doesn't change the fact that it's still a shame though. Kiwikaki to EG.

It worked for MBCGame.
Until KPOP took over T_T
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
February 19 2012 02:25 GMT
#704
On February 19 2012 03:25 mTwTT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 03:21 Apom wrote:
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote:
I'll never support IGN again.

0_0

Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?


i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out
if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?

edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls

this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke



the players werent kicked off the team, the team ceased to exist. why are you mad at the team?
Aeze
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7 Posts
February 19 2012 02:28 GMT
#705
On February 19 2012 04:08 Gheed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 03:59 Orracle wrote:
On February 19 2012 03:25 mTwTT1 wrote:
On February 19 2012 03:21 Apom wrote:
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote:
I'll never support IGN again.

0_0

Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?


i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out
if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?

edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls

this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke


From the start I don't see how a player can think there's job security in any game. The game is always changing, and in rare cases will a player always be on top. Just like in any real job, if a person is under performing, they're cut. I don't see any real accomplishments or any players that stick out to me from this team that could make a good run in a big event, currently. While there are some solid players on the roster, I'm really not sure why IGN would sponsor them, as I don't feel any are at the level anymore that could yield the results IGN wanted.


A job at walmart stocking shelves has more job security and probably pays more for much less effort than a progamer exerts. I don't see why you seem to think it's unreasonable for a player to desire more job security. I don't see how reign was underperforming, either; IGN only sponsored them for like 6 months.


Well someone working at walmart is actually doing something more productive and essential to our society. If you ask the average person if they'd rather want their stores stocked or be able to watch some guys play video games, you'll notice a pattern quickly.

oiran
Profile Joined October 2011
United States13 Posts
February 19 2012 02:55 GMT
#706
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote:
This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.

That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.

I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..


Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.

Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.
rugrat
Profile Joined October 2010
United States15 Posts
February 19 2012 03:35 GMT
#707
Another team gone. Oh well. im more worried about the players. Especially kiwi, slush, and Axlsav. I believe i heard catz say that kiwi wouldnt want to join another team, i just hope he keeps playing. I have no idea where slush could possibly, go, although he is so good I only hope he gets on a good team soon. Then, axslav, man he just got into the team and now he is out. I feel like he might have some trouble finding a team. best of luck to all of them.
LloydRays
Profile Joined October 2010
United States306 Posts
February 19 2012 03:48 GMT
#708
Who else thinks ROOT gaming should reform?
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
February 19 2012 03:50 GMT
#709
On February 19 2012 12:48 LloydRays wrote:
Who else thinks ROOT gaming should reform?

can't have ROOT without Catz and Drewbie and I doubt they leave coL
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Rafael
Profile Joined January 2011
Venezuela182 Posts
February 19 2012 03:53 GMT
#710
What? This is so unexpected I think they were doing quite alright in tourneys.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
February 19 2012 03:54 GMT
#711
On February 19 2012 11:55 oiran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote:
This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.

That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.

I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..


Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.

Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.

Are you Dawn?

I dunno what I should say, but I don't think anyone on the old VT team really thought that spades was a level above everyone else, and his attitude was a bit.. disrespectful to everyone else.

VT wanted to keep me as VT. If you recall, they were planning to keep the VT squad, and send those top performing members to events and consider them for reign. Considering my position in the scene/team at the time, I didn't feel that was fair to be - felt like I was being cut even though I delivered solid results then. Basically, to make the most of Reign, I would have to commit to a team house - if I was older and able to do that at the time of Reign forming, I think I almost certainly would have been kept. I didn't feel like reign was going to be offering me what I wanted in the future, as I felt their main priority was the house and having players live there.

And yes, I actually did talk to reign about joining their team about two weeks ago. I chose not to and stayed with itsgosu, ironically because I felt itsgosu was more stable as far as sponsors go. Someone actually even said to me, and this is one of the things that influenced my decision: "If you were IGN, would you be happy with Reign's performance?" to which I said "probably not". Reign did seem a little bit to be on the downswing, although even I definitely did not expect this to happen, even having been in negotiations with Reign until one week before they disbanded with no warning of such happening. @_@
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
LloydRays
Profile Joined October 2010
United States306 Posts
February 19 2012 03:54 GMT
#712
On February 19 2012 12:50 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 12:48 LloydRays wrote:
Who else thinks ROOT gaming should reform?

can't have ROOT without Catz and Drewbie and I doubt they leave coL

I didn't say 'why don't they reform?' i asked 'who thinks they should reform?'
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
February 19 2012 03:56 GMT
#713
On February 19 2012 12:54 LloydRays wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 12:50 jmbthirteen wrote:
On February 19 2012 12:48 LloydRays wrote:
Who else thinks ROOT gaming should reform?

can't have ROOT without Catz and Drewbie and I doubt they leave coL

I didn't say 'why don't they reform?' i asked 'who thinks they should reform?'

that was my way of saying i dont think they should because it wouldnt be right without Catz and Drewbie
www.superbeerbrothers.com
UndoneJin
Profile Joined February 2011
United States438 Posts
February 19 2012 04:09 GMT
#714
I never really came to especially know/like this team, though how can't you be a fan of KiWi?

Still sad, never like to see any team just shut down =/
I've been lost since the day I was born ----- You're gonna carry that weight
oiran
Profile Joined October 2011
United States13 Posts
February 19 2012 04:27 GMT
#715
On February 19 2012 12:54 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 11:55 oiran wrote:
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote:
This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.

That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.

I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..


Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.

Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.

Are you Dawn?

I dunno what I should say, but I don't think anyone on the old VT team really thought that spades was a level above everyone else, and his attitude was a bit.. disrespectful to everyone else.

VT wanted to keep me as VT. If you recall, they were planning to keep the VT squad, and send those top performing members to events and consider them for reign. Considering my position in the scene/team at the time, I didn't feel that was fair to be - felt like I was being cut even though I delivered solid results then. Basically, to make the most of Reign, I would have to commit to a team house - if I was older and able to do that at the time of Reign forming, I think I almost certainly would have been kept. I didn't feel like reign was going to be offering me what I wanted in the future, as I felt their main priority was the house and having players live there.

And yes, I actually did talk to reign about joining their team about two weeks ago. I chose not to and stayed with itsgosu, ironically because I felt itsgosu was more stable as far as sponsors go. Someone actually even said to me, and this is one of the things that influenced my decision: "If you were IGN, would you be happy with Reign's performance?" to which I said "probably not". Reign did seem a little bit to be on the downswing, although even I definitely did not expect this to happen, even having been in negotiations with Reign until one week before they disbanded with no warning of such happening. @_@


Yep yep, Dawn here.

I never sat in on the conversations, I just heard it mostly through Frank as it was happening. I think he was really torn and wanted you there but was dealing with a lot of pressure from the other people on staff who didn't want to allocate salary to you because of your age and how much you'd be able to commit with school. Ultimately, I don't think that would have mattered since the practice hours they picked would have worked out for you. I wish now that I'd been more involved in Reign management when it was formed though. I never would have expected their decisions in June to have affected things now, in February, but they did.

I am glad you stayed with It's Gosu though. For stability, like you said, and because with Doa working with you guys now I have a lot of expectations for what the team can become. I am a bit sad that you left VT though. A day or two before you left I told Frank I had wanted to take over managing VT since no one else had stepped up. He said he'd want to have a talk with the players about that, and then before we had the chance everyone was gone except Avilo and MrBitter (and we already knew then MrBitter was going to Germany.) I would have really liked to see what I could have done with VT on my own, with my own contacts and sponsors from the WoW world.
Northern_iight
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada363 Posts
February 19 2012 04:54 GMT
#716
it's quite weird how this happen. Why would a team sign a new player (axslav) knowing that it would disband? Probably because the team didn't know it was going to disband. So what could have possibly happened to cause a team to disband in an instant?!?!?! We know it was certainly not on the team meetings as they were looking for more players (example- in talks with Pokebunny).

So for a team to just disband out of the blue is very ... mysterious. Something BIG must have happened behind the scenes we, the public, do not know about.

anyone from REIGN want to spill the beans?
IamPryda
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1186 Posts
February 19 2012 05:05 GMT
#717
so where did you think kiwi and artist will land they are both really strong players liquid could use another terran although artist doesnt seem to be the type of player they normally go after.
Moar banelings less qq
Shunjal
Profile Joined August 2010
United States482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-19 05:28:53
February 19 2012 05:28 GMT
#718
Wouldn't be surprised to see Kiwi go teamless, attend regional events (MLG, IPL, etc.) and spend more time playing poker. It's honestly a better time investment if you're good at it, can make more money without playing as much.

Hopefully the other full-time progamers can find a home, feel bad for Axslav, but I don't think he'll have a problem getting with another team soon.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
February 19 2012 06:38 GMT
#719
On February 19 2012 13:27 oiran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 12:54 Pokebunny wrote:
On February 19 2012 11:55 oiran wrote:
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote:
This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.

That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.

I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..


Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.

Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.

Are you Dawn?

I dunno what I should say, but I don't think anyone on the old VT team really thought that spades was a level above everyone else, and his attitude was a bit.. disrespectful to everyone else.

VT wanted to keep me as VT. If you recall, they were planning to keep the VT squad, and send those top performing members to events and consider them for reign. Considering my position in the scene/team at the time, I didn't feel that was fair to be - felt like I was being cut even though I delivered solid results then. Basically, to make the most of Reign, I would have to commit to a team house - if I was older and able to do that at the time of Reign forming, I think I almost certainly would have been kept. I didn't feel like reign was going to be offering me what I wanted in the future, as I felt their main priority was the house and having players live there.

And yes, I actually did talk to reign about joining their team about two weeks ago. I chose not to and stayed with itsgosu, ironically because I felt itsgosu was more stable as far as sponsors go. Someone actually even said to me, and this is one of the things that influenced my decision: "If you were IGN, would you be happy with Reign's performance?" to which I said "probably not". Reign did seem a little bit to be on the downswing, although even I definitely did not expect this to happen, even having been in negotiations with Reign until one week before they disbanded with no warning of such happening. @_@


Yep yep, Dawn here.

I never sat in on the conversations, I just heard it mostly through Frank as it was happening. I think he was really torn and wanted you there but was dealing with a lot of pressure from the other people on staff who didn't want to allocate salary to you because of your age and how much you'd be able to commit with school. Ultimately, I don't think that would have mattered since the practice hours they picked would have worked out for you. I wish now that I'd been more involved in Reign management when it was formed though. I never would have expected their decisions in June to have affected things now, in February, but they did.

I am glad you stayed with It's Gosu though. For stability, like you said, and because with Doa working with you guys now I have a lot of expectations for what the team can become. I am a bit sad that you left VT though. A day or two before you left I told Frank I had wanted to take over managing VT since no one else had stepped up. He said he'd want to have a talk with the players about that, and then before we had the chance everyone was gone except Avilo and MrBitter (and we already knew then MrBitter was going to Germany.) I would have really liked to see what I could have done with VT on my own, with my own contacts and sponsors from the WoW world.

With all due respect to the other members of VT at the time, once I left it was pretty much clear that VT was done lol. Azz and Whiplash leaving just put the nail in the coffin further but I was the only real name player on the roster at the time.. I admit it might have been a bit of a sudden decision but I really was not comfortable with everything that was going on at the time >>
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
February 19 2012 10:03 GMT
#720
On February 19 2012 04:08 Gheed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 03:59 Orracle wrote:
On February 19 2012 03:25 mTwTT1 wrote:
On February 19 2012 03:21 Apom wrote:
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote:
I'll never support IGN again.

0_0

Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?


i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out
if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?

edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls

this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke


From the start I don't see how a player can think there's job security in any game. The game is always changing, and in rare cases will a player always be on top. Just like in any real job, if a person is under performing, they're cut. I don't see any real accomplishments or any players that stick out to me from this team that could make a good run in a big event, currently. While there are some solid players on the roster, I'm really not sure why IGN would sponsor them, as I don't feel any are at the level anymore that could yield the results IGN wanted.


A job at walmart stocking shelves has more job security and probably pays more for much less effort than a progamer exerts. I don't see why you seem to think it's unreasonable for a player to desire more job security. I don't see how reign was underperforming, either; IGN only sponsored them for like 6 months.

The problem is the entire model of e-sports teams is flawed.

Basically a team just re-sells advertising. They are a middle man between a product (players) and potential advertisers (sponsors). If the product (players) doesn't appeal to the advertisers (be it because of lack of professionalism, popularity, results, whatever) what can the team realistically do?

Being a professional gamer is less a job and more selling your services. If no one wants your services, you lose your source of income. Think of a pro gamer as a prostitute working in a brothel. Customers come in, they pick a whore. If they don't pick you, you make no money. Sad reality but that is just the way it is. And there is no easy fix.
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