Yesterday afternoon Team Reign and IGN decided to part ways, which unfortunately means Reign will now also be disbanding. Having only existed for a short time, we have not grown enough as an organization to currently be able to provide for our players in the manner we promised without the support of a large sponsor like IGN.
Though many variables may suggest this was planned -- Artist returning to Korea, and Spades departing -- the disbandment is just as unexpected for us as it may be for our fans. We had a great number of plans to grow the organization, and we definitely weren't short on hope for the next tournament season, especially with both Artist and Axslav qualifying for the MLG Winter Championship. Sadly, it seems that wasn't enough to stand up to reality.
All the same, the shortcoming of the organization should not reflect on the achievements of our players, who we hope will go on to prosper in new teams. It is our hope that the fans of the StarCraft community will also lend their support to our players as they transition to new places (by watching their streams, following them on Twitter, and saying nice things to them.)
We'd like to thank everyone who has supported us over the past 8 months. Our fans, Razer, and IGN for the opportunity. It has all meant a great deal to us. Thank you!
As a final note, Reign will play out the NASTL season as a team until it ends or enough of our players have found new homes that we no longer have the roster to compete. (Who could really turn down a chance to play Mouz, after all?)
Now please, bring on the "reign ends" puns. They helps us forget the pain.
This is just really sad to see. Anytime an organization in esports falls out of existence, its not a win for the community or esports. REIGN had good leadership, and Mirhi is an awesome guy. I wish everyone the best.
Yeah, I feel for Axslav especially. He only recently joined and seems to be hitting his stride as a player, and then the team falls apart. Hopefully they all find homes.
Damn I hope that all of the players get picked up quickly, I see kiwikaki and slush getting picked up almost instantly and the rest finding a team later.
Best of luck to the players. Perhaps the haters of Sundance on LO3 yesterday should take heed of his warning that the western e-sports scene is not as rosy as they might think.
This is very disheartening news. I loved the ReIGN team and saw a lot of potential in their players , not to mention the huge strides they took as a team with the house, and the players. The management was always top notch as well.
Sad to see you go ReIGN. I always thought you had the best jerseys.
Great group of guys on team Reign. I hope they find a new team soon, best of luck to the guys who are teamless. Reign had some of favorite players and sad to see them disband.
Man, I remember I had huge hopes for Reign when they first started up. It's sad to see the organization end like this, because I still think you guys had big potential.
Wow.... many good players on the market now. This really sucks for Artist, Inori and Axslav. Axslav obviously just joined, but Artist and Inori really took a leap of faith to join a foreigner team. I'm actually not sure sure about Artist's story, but Inori left FXO to go with Reign.
Wow, i really feel for axslav. Just picked up by Reign and starting to do really well and then BOOM. disband. Most of thes eplayers are really good and should have no problem finding a team, hopefully,,,
I am kind of disappointed by IGN for doing this... I mean if you are sponsoring a new team I think you need to give them a solid amount of time to show results, they didn't really start with the top top top top tier players. They had solid talent and they kind of bailed prematurely (in my opinion) I still love IGN for their tournaments and helping advance the scene, I just don't care for this move. GL to the players
what........ i dont know why but I feel pretty devastated about this. I dont know like any of the players on that team (other than one of my favorites Axslav but he just joined so I don't know why I have the feeling over reign itself.)
Axslav is one hell of a player though, and he will forsure land on his feet.
Kiwi is obviously the other intriguing one here but I havent heard much from him lately.
On February 17 2012 09:18 AllSalesFinal wrote: I am kind of disappointed by IGN for doing this... I mean if you are sponsoring a new team I think you need to give them a solid amount of time to show results, they didn't really start with the top top top top tier players. They had solid talent and they kind of bailed prematurely (in my opinion) I still love IGN for their tournaments and helping advance the scene, I just don't care for this move. GL to the players
Yeah I know. By all the responses in the MLG thread, IGN is rolling in money right now. I have no idea why they would drop their associated pro team...
Just thought i'd mention that i don't think kiwikaki and slush would join col because they declined to join when root merged with col in the first place.
It does makes me wonder how some of the other teams are doing.
Poor axslav, but also to Inori and Artist who probably won't have a good time finding new teams. Kiwi and Slush still are great so hopefully they get accommodated too..
Wow. This was unexpected. Everything seemed to be going Reign's way. I don't understand why can't they have the team looking for a new sponsor. Reign has solid results and a good background. I don't understand this at all.
Along with everyone else, I'm really feeling especially for Axslav right now. It seems unlikely that he would be immediately welcome back at the EG house, which is compounded by the hurt I'm sure he's feeling since he seemed so happy joining the ReIGN organization.
I also hope to see Slush find a good new home. He doesn't necessarily stand out among the other foreigner zergs too well, but he's been fairly consistent since beta and early retail.
On February 17 2012 09:18 AllSalesFinal wrote: I am kind of disappointed by IGN for doing this... I mean if you are sponsoring a new team I think you need to give them a solid amount of time to show results, they didn't really start with the top top top top tier players. They had solid talent and they kind of bailed prematurely (in my opinion) I still love IGN for their tournaments and helping advance the scene, I just don't care for this move. GL to the players
Yeah I know. By all the responses in the MLG thread, IGN is rolling in money right now. I have no idea why they would drop their associated pro team...
IPL is not exactly in the best financial shape, having losing tons of cash at IPL3. I am disappointed, but I can see why IGN could have felt that it could not support the team and team house.
On February 17 2012 09:21 masterbreti wrote: Wow. This was unexpected. Everything seemed to be going Reign's way. I don't understand why can't they have the team looking for a new sponsor. Reign has solid results and a good background. I don't understand this at all.
solid results? big splashes in online cups or what.
anyway , this is the natural progress of things, the strong survive the weak falter, clearly there is a reason ign didn't want to support this team anymore.
Wow this is such sad news... we do know that complexity is picking up 3 new players soon.... perhaps Kiwi, Slush, and mystery player will have a new home soon
Did they know they were going to disband? Because if so that is not cool to bring on axslav knowing that, but holy shit free agents on the market! Slush, Inori, Artist, Axslav, Kiwikaki, all of those guys will be finding a home, curious to see who will pick them up, complexity did say it was bringing in 3 new players....
Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
With the news floating around that IPL was in the red a cool million after IPL3, it just isn't realistic to keep financially supporting a team who doesn't post results.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
So, what does it means about IGN's involvement in pro-gaming? Is it the first sign of IPL being dropped? Frankly, as much as i like IPL's shows, i suspect them to be far far away from covering costs as they seem to have just 3000/4000 viewers per day at most.
Axslav just got fucked, Col please pick him up. Or EG should honestly bring him back in, he's got a good ROI; tourney results and decent stream viewership.
On February 17 2012 09:25 SgtCoDFish wrote: Poor axslav That's all I can think about this.
Hope everyone finds a home; coL will take a few, I imagine.
I wonder if this could be connected to the three new players they are aquiring?
Really sad to see teams disband though, but that's how it is. Best of luck to the players in finding new homes.
unless Col knew before Reign did, I doubt that would be the case. Reign disbanded yesterdaym Col announced their players new signings yesterday as well. I don't think col acted before anyone even knew.
Ah, well. Expecting Slush, Kiwi, and Axslav to be picked up pretty quickly. Future's really good too. Haven't heard from Inori in a while, but he'd be a great addition to almost any team.
Sucks for all involved, they were a pretty strong team. Inori, Artist and Kiwikaki all capable of showing good results in tournaments as well as the other guys. I'm sure they will find teams soon to support their ambitions.
It was always weird to me why ign would be investing so much in a team house when there where only like 2 or 3 players training there. I feel IGN realised the results and exposure they were getting from reign didn't justify the investment. Anyway this is sad news i liked reign hope their players can find a new team.
The real question here is why did IGN stop their partnership with RGN? Reign disbanding was expected or at least a heavy cut, as a teamhouse+(probably) paying salary and flying their members to events was most likely very expensive and not possible without a big financial sponsor. Maybe IGN is planning to expand their events or they are having some financial difficulties? I really hope it's not the latter
It was pretty obvious this was going to happen to be honest. Especially with rumors growing of BW pros switching over soon, there is not going to be enough money to go around for teams of mediocre NA players who win a small online tournament here and there at best (besides maybe Kiwi, but he doesn't really win much anymore either). Sure, teams like this can exist, but expecting them to get big sponsor money and team housing was a short lived pipe dream.
When Spades left he even said people in the Reign house weren't practicing much and there was no practice schedule or anything... What is the point of a team house if you're going to half ass it with players who haven't produced many results and no practice schedule/rules while Koreans are practicing 10 hours a day? Besides they didn't even have their best player, kiwi, in the house.. Waste of money. These kids needed a reality check, sad but necessary.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Wow, wtf. I've never been a big fan but with the team house, the big sponsor and Ax joining I saw some potential. I feel sorry for Axslav now though :/ EG should just re-pick him up lol. I could actually imagine him being one of the new coL recruits, it would certainly fit him. FnaticRC.Axslav doesn't sound bad either
sad to see a team go down, im sure lots of them will get offerings from other teams, Axlavs situation is kinda sad. Wish good luck to them, i dont find that i ever heard much about the team when they were alive. I dont know if this is on my part or theirs but players like Slush and KiWiKaKi i feel like i heard more about them prior to team reign. I hope to see these players get more noticed.
I bet their progaming house was sucking up a huge amount of money and was unsustainable in the long run.
That or IPL decided their streams weren't generating enough attention to be considered a worthwhile investment for the house.
I wish each and every one of those players good luck (you guys had awesome jerseys @ MLG ) and hope they can find new teams quickly and continue their pro career.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
I don't think you can apply this to this situation. The need for low level teams is diminished by a number of things. Talent develops on the ladder and through their own practice, you don't even get on a low level team if you can't establish yourself there.
And honestly, a low level North American team in the current competitive Starcraft 2 team, is in reality, a glorified team of ladder players. When the top tier Noth American players can barely break the ice in Korea, then what chance do any of these people have? You're going on and on about how I'm an idiot because I don't understand how it works, but when, in reality, you flat out ignore the fact that there's absolutely no value in a low level North American team.
If you're going to make examples of the Korean teams, it's different. The players / culture there is different. They are just flat out better. B team or ladder players in Korea were better than most of the players on ReIGN. There isn't a lot of talent in North America, especially not enough to make this comparison. Could this change? Maybe, but right now, the only way it's changing is the North American teams are BUYING out koreans. Even low level North American teams have resorted to it.
You look at it from a talent standpoint only -- you completely ignore the financial aspects of the situation. Think about it, if a low level North American team, who posts no results, has one of the largest sponsors in the business, can't stick around, what chance do other teams have with no sponsors at all? The reality of it is, very little. Why does EG still exist? Because they have a shit load of sponsors to bring in cash, even when their players aren't winning tournaments.
If you want to compare to other sports scenes, look at MLB. The single, double, and triple A squads exist to develop talent, yes. But how do they exist? Have you ever been to one of these games? There's absolutely no-one there. They exist because their Major league equivalent turns enough profit to finance them to develop talent. MONEY. They don't exist because teams just want to find someone who will help their team. Of course they want their team to get better, but you just don't say "Hey, heres a facility, equipment and food and other necessities for living. Good Luck and hope to see you in the bigs soon!". It's all about money. It's all about results.
If you want to compare low level teams to these A class organizations, look what's missing for most of them. Money. They have people who want to get better, but there's a million of those. They need money to finance it. In a system like SC2 where there are only so many sponsors to go around, who are they going to give their money to? Jo blow big time Timmy Jim and his brother who try real hard and practice and compete in tournaments, only to get dog stomped. Or fucking MVP who enters every tournament and is immediately the favorite to win.
TLDR: If you're good, people will find out, with or without a low level team. Need to make money or post results, Reign apparently did neither. Limited money to go around. Not worth investing as sponsor in low level team when you can post money to big dogs.
I hate to say it, but this is a good lesson to all the teams out there trying to establish themselves. To make it in the long run a team has to establish itself not only through talent, but financially. Being over ambitious can be costly as we see here. Good luck to all the players.
Seems like Axlav saw it coming , every time someone asked him about his team he would just say " it's good " probably just me but seemed like he didnt like it . Anyway I know he and the rest of the players will find another great team it's just a matter of time.
Makes sense; it didn't seem like the team was going anywhere and there's no way it was a good investment for anyone involved. If anything, it seemed like a way for sponsors to throw their money away. Actually, you know what? Sponsors would get more publicity for their brand by throwing their money away than they did through Reign.
This really sucks for the players though, since they represent the some of the best the NA scene as to offer (and the Koreans are damn good too, duh).
Here's hoping most of them can get picked up in the coming weeks. Thankfully, it didn't seem like many of the players were all that active or dependent on SC2 for their livelihood.
Really strange that they signed Axslav. They had to know that things weren't the best if only a month after they have to disband. Really weird. I'd be more than a little annoyed if I were Ax.
I have no doubt in my mind that all these players will find new teams at some point. These guys are all quality players and would be a real asset to any team that could pick them up.
Is it just me or is the NA scene a bit of a mess right now? All the best players have "fled" to Korea and what is left doesn't really do well competitively. In fact you barely hear of these teams unless MLG is on, and it's been a while since the last one.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
They didn't know that IGN was going to drop them. All they said is looking back, is seemed to be written on the wall, but it wasn't.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
Esports bubble in full effect. MLG cutting staff and putting up a big pay wall, IPL cutting costs. Watch NASL fold within a few months, and teams stop recruiting Koreans.
On February 17 2012 09:50 Tek_ wrote: I hate to say it, but this is a good lesson to all the teams out there trying to establish themselves. To make it in the long run a team has to establish itself not only through talent, but financially. Being over ambitious can be costly as we see here. Good luck to all the players.
Should be a good lesson for the teams currently around too. I can't imagine many teams around today are doing even close to well financially.
I mean, obviously there's TL, which has a huge fansite, but outside of that I can only really think of EG as financially stable in a meaningful way (maybe coL and Quantic, but I don't know all that much about them to be honest and they don't seem to be nearly as big in the community as far as expanding their brand goes). Then we have for example FXO, which is just a way for a rich guy to waste his money for entertainment (not a real business model), and a lot of poorer teams that aren't really paying meaningful salaries.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
On February 17 2012 09:58 Zerker wrote: This is e-sports, well half of it. The other half is players winning tournaments and not getting paid.
That would make 100% of esports a negative thing right? Competition in a new, growing market like this is unforgiving. These groups and companies just need to refine their "build order."
This is really sad news, I was so happy when I heard Axslav had found a team so quickly and reign had a really solid line up going. didn't they also have a team house in San Francisco? Wish all their players the best.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
If he didn't sign a contract he's a fool (and a criminal). Hopefully the terms were decent for him though, since I've really been warming up to him lately.
I'm just glad these players are based out of NA (and several of them seem to have outside sources of income), since they probably won't be falling upon hard times. Sometimes, having a strong legal system is a good thing.
This should be a pretty good lesson/example to a lot of people complaining about MLG's PPV cost. Companies/Teams/Tournaments have to pay the bills at the end of the day. ReIGN had a ton of talent and given enough time could have been something great, but without sponsers and results to generate interest failure is almost a certianty. Starcraft 2 might seem like this HUGE game with TONS of money flowing through it but if we don't support our own, we could see it fail just the same.
With that said, I don't see Slush being without a team for too long. He generates viewers on his stream, solid player, and a nice addition to an existing sqaud. Kiwikaki and Axslav don't have AS hard of a road as some of the other players, but it will be interesting to see how their past tournament results/other circumstances affect them.
GL old ReIGN members. I hope this isn't forcasting IGN pulling out of the scene or worry amongst sponsers.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
yeah 3 figures amounts are so life changing
How on earth did you guys survive on 3 figures salary in Reign?
On February 17 2012 09:50 Tek_ wrote: I hate to say it, but this is a good lesson to all the teams out there trying to establish themselves. To make it in the long run a team has to establish itself not only through talent, but financially. Being over ambitious can be costly as we see here. Good luck to all the players.
Should be a good lesson for the teams currently around too. I can't imagine many teams around today are doing even close to well financially.
I mean, obviously there's TL, which has a huge fansite, but outside of that I can only really think of EG as financially stable in a meaningful way (maybe coL and Quantic, but I don't know all that much about them to be honest and they don't seem to be nearly as big in the community as far as expanding their brand goes). Then we have for example FXO, which is just a way for a rich guy to waste his money for entertainment (not a real business model), and a lot of poorer teams that aren't really paying meaningful salaries.
I fear for the scene. :\
When I think of established teams I think of EG, coL and Fnatic. These are teams that have survived for years and across multiple games. Why? Because they run good businesses, EG and coL especially.
Sadly, I think this could be the beginning of the bursting of the e-sports bubble. I think many parties are starting to realise the ROI of investing in the industry is just too uncertain/low at the moment and with this happening a lot of teams will lose their already poor incomes. One part of it all I think is also that there are a lot of "undeserving" individuals taking pieces of the cake, the SC2 pro scene needs to lose some fat like all unprofitable businesses do. Money talks.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
yeah 3 figures amounts are so life changing
How on earth did you guys survive on 3 figures salary in Reign?
The vast majority of pro-gamers get 3 figures monthly.
Sad news indeed. Though an attempt at something you value is worth a hell of a lot, and by no means a failure. I hope the staf and players continue to fight for what they want.
On February 17 2012 09:50 Tek_ wrote: I hate to say it, but this is a good lesson to all the teams out there trying to establish themselves. To make it in the long run a team has to establish itself not only through talent, but financially. Being over ambitious can be costly as we see here. Good luck to all the players.
Should be a good lesson for the teams currently around too. I can't imagine many teams around today are doing even close to well financially.
I mean, obviously there's TL, which has a huge fansite, but outside of that I can only really think of EG as financially stable in a meaningful way (maybe coL and Quantic, but I don't know all that much about them to be honest and they don't seem to be nearly as big in the community as far as expanding their brand goes). Then we have for example FXO, which is just a way for a rich guy to waste his money for entertainment (not a real business model), and a lot of poorer teams that aren't really paying meaningful salaries.
I fear for the scene. :\
FXO is a way for a rich guy to dump money? Boss always show his concerns about making the team profitable and already cut the costs by a large margin. To be honest, it's probably the only korean team who really care and for the financial side.
What happend with team Reign is lack of exposure, they had a very little fanbase and never produced any event or something along those lines to bring audience to their sponsors.
some serious talent on this team. Don't think that the players will have trouble finding homes but this is so saddening. How come it was so sudden? How do you sign a player and then disband so soon?
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
How in damn hell do you know they did that? Such an unfounded accusation with absolutely no facts to support it.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
yeah 3 figures amounts are so life changing
How on earth did you guys survive on 3 figures salary in Reign?
I didn't get any salary esp since I went inactive almost at the beginning, players in the pro house didn't have any rent to pay, pretty easy to survive that way
On February 17 2012 09:50 Tek_ wrote: I hate to say it, but this is a good lesson to all the teams out there trying to establish themselves. To make it in the long run a team has to establish itself not only through talent, but financially. Being over ambitious can be costly as we see here. Good luck to all the players.
Should be a good lesson for the teams currently around too. I can't imagine many teams around today are doing even close to well financially.
I mean, obviously there's TL, which has a huge fansite, but outside of that I can only really think of EG as financially stable in a meaningful way (maybe coL and Quantic, but I don't know all that much about them to be honest and they don't seem to be nearly as big in the community as far as expanding their brand goes). Then we have for example FXO, which is just a way for a rich guy to waste his money for entertainment (not a real business model), and a lot of poorer teams that aren't really paying meaningful salaries.
I fear for the scene. :\
FXO is a way for a rich guy to dump money? Boss always show his concerns about making the team profitable and already cut the costs by a large margin. To be honest, it's probably the only korean team who really care and for the financial side.
What happend with team Reign is lack of exposure, they had a very little fanbase and never produced any event or something along those lines to bring audience to their sponsors.
I can't speak to the FXO comment, but somehow I doubt that's true. But, what I can speak to, is the bolded part.
How can you even say that? OGS has been going out and picking up sponsors left and right, so has IM. Steelseries, Mom's touch, Burn energy drink. PRIME team has a freakin' clothing store, man! And you're going to sit there and tell us they don't care about money?
And the ultimate caveat to your statement, the ZENEX post ( whether its true or not I don't know) where a team came to an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD asking STRANGERS for money.
I feel bad for Axslav. A good player who just joined the team and it disbands soon after :/ Hope he and the rest of the players got on new teams soon, there is a lot of talent on reign.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
yeah 3 figures amounts are so life changing
How on earth did you guys survive on 3 figures salary in Reign?
That's what most pro gamers are on. Everyone thinks they're making a killing but it's the complete opposite. They'd nearly all make more money doing a minimum wage job.
On February 17 2012 10:10 00Visor wrote: Seems to be difficult to maintain a NA team if you are not already a stable organisation (EG, coL). We've had Root, LG, VT, sixjax, Reign.
because I dont think they take it seriously enough... in Europe we have it to but less cases, NaVi (Very established team) disbanded
So what the deal with team leagues? Do you still compete in them as a team until the teamleague is over, or are the other teams just going to be given a walkover?
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
yeah 3 figures amounts are so life changing
How on earth did you guys survive on 3 figures salary in Reign?
That's what most pro gamers are on. Everyone thinks they're making a killing but it's the complete opposite. They'd nearly all make more money doing a minimum wage job.
The benefit being if you're in a pro-house (EG/RGN), you have your rent/food/travel to tournaments covered, 3 figures is more than enough to live on with all that covered.
With so many announcements in the past few months this must have truly come as a shock to the Reign organization. I guess it just goes to show that sponsorship is everything when trying ensure the longevity of a progaming team.
Team Evil Geniuses currently has ELEVEN sponsors. Naturally, EG should have more sponsors considering it is one of the older teams and its rosters span multiple platforms. However, one must ponder how they have garnered so much support over the years. Other veteran teams such as SK and Complexity don't nearly have the sponsor support to match EG's, and yet EG still continues to gain more and more sponsors at an unparalleled rate.
It is now more evident than ever that these teams are here to compete. And not just for the highest prize purse at MLG. Teams are competing for sponsorship dollars, and it is a race to find them as quickly as possible. Currently, EG has it down pat. They are a machine when it comes to gaining sponsor support. It is up to new teams to figure out what exactly has made EG so successful. One sponsor just isn't going to cut it. Teams must learn to build their brands into a well oiled machine that can not only support their players, but their livelihood as a business as well.
They did really poorly in the IGN's own Team League, so I can understand why IGN would disband them. I saw this coming after that performance to be honest. That is too bad.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
yeah 3 figures amounts are so life changing
How on earth did you guys survive on 3 figures salary in Reign?
That's what most pro gamers are on. Everyone thinks they're making a killing but it's the complete opposite. They'd nearly all make more money doing a minimum wage job.
The benefit being if you're in a pro-house (EG/RGN), you have your rent/food/travel to tournaments covered, 3 figures is more than enough to live on with all that covered.
How many events did ReIGN players go to? Any outside the states? There was next to no budget for travel. And i think they have to pay for their own food. Yeah you can live, but everything you do starts to become extremely expensive. It's not the easy life everybody believes. Why do you think they won't release how much players are earning.
That's unfortunate for Axslav especially. I feel like there might need to be consolidation on the foreign team front right now with a bunch of smaller teams scrapping for any support they can find. Would be nice if there could be some sort of cooperative to ensure their survival for longer than a few months.
Alot of people say that they hope the players get picked up by other teams fast. I wonder what teams who really can though, Kiwikaki will probably want a good deal for example and there are probably not that many teams who can afford him. That ontop of that the teams that can seem to have already very large rosters.
Some of these guys will probably just have to lower their expectations alot and join a more low profile team.
awww that's unfortunate. Maybe it's premature to disband the team a day after you lose ur sponsor? Can always try to find a new sponsor and if it doesn't work out then disband? but anyways best of luck to everybody involved in Team Reign.
On February 17 2012 10:10 00Visor wrote: Seems to be difficult to maintain a NA team if you are not already a stable organisation (EG, coL). We've had Root, LG, VT, sixjax, Reign.
because I dont think they take it seriously enough... in Europe we have it to but less cases, NaVi (Very established team) disbanded
Virus and NaVi in recent times, but other teams in Europe have disbanded and reformed. MYM is pretty dead looking at their SC2 division as well. It happens everywhere sadly. There's just more well established teams in Europe already because of the WC3 background.
Perhaps Team Vile might pick one or two of these guys up? They are definitely a team catching a lot of attention right now and could really solidify their presence as a premier NA team with any of these guys.
I wonder if Fxo will take Inori back or what will happend to him. To the rest of them, good luck, especially Axslav, who just begins to shine in tournaments.
Wow, that's a surprise. I didn't see this coming at all. I feel bad for Axslav, because he only joined the team less than a month ago, so now he's going to be teamless again. I wish the best of luck to the other players finding a new team as well. It's always sad to here about teams disbanding.
This really sucks... especially for Axslav since he recently joined the team. It is saddening to see more smaller (in terms of sponsors) teams disband.
poor axslav i wonder if he had any inclining that the team was have some difficulties financially. because i have to imagine he would have chose a different team
On February 17 2012 09:41 darkest44 wrote: It was pretty obvious this was going to happen to be honest. Especially with rumors growing of BW pros switching over soon, there is not going to be enough money to go around for teams of mediocre NA players who win a small online tournament here and there at best (besides maybe Kiwi, but he doesn't really win much anymore either). Sure, teams like this can exist, but expecting them to get big sponsor money and team housing was a short lived pipe dream.
When Spades left he even said people in the Reign house weren't practicing much and there was no practice schedule or anything... What is the point of a team house if you're going to half ass it with players who haven't produced many results and no practice schedule/rules while Koreans are practicing 10 hours a day? Besides they didn't even have their best player, kiwi, in the house.. Waste of money. These kids needed a reality check, sad but necessary.
I'm the assistant manager of the former Reign. I would like to point out we did our best and we practiced the hardest we can. It may not have been good as some might have expected it, but we gave it our best shot and did our best. I really wish some people like this had sources to back up their words before they go on ranting about "facts" that they know.
This really makes me feel sad. I REALLYYY liked REIGN. They were one of those teams that I looked up to, because almost all their players were deriving from teams that didn't appreciate the players to the extent they were valued.
So terrible... wish the team wouldn't disband and would just find another sponsor instead T_T
It obviously sucks for all the players and managers involved but its hard to say it wasn't coming when so much was invested, player salary, a pretty nice house in a nice area of the south bay area in california, all for what amounted to almost no visible return on the investment. They did a few videos but the production wasn't really there, and up until recently there just haven't been enough tournaments for the players to show serious results in.
Sad but they weren't exactly a good team to begin with. Spades hinted at the fact that they weren't doing very well in the team house enviorment as far as practice/results went.
I'm really surprised by this. I would imagine that even though these players will no longer be on Reign, at least several of them will either join or start a new team together.
Wow, I didn't see this coming. Best of luck to everyone. Axslav, Slush, and Kiwi are some of my favorite players, so here's to them finding new homes asap!
Oh damn, this really sucks, Reign was my favorite foreign team. It sucks especially for Axslav who only just joined recently, it must be disheartening to have to search for a team again. On a side note, maybe complexity will pick up a few players from Reign? This would make sense since they recently announced 3 new surprise players to their roster on their website.
On February 17 2012 10:10 00Visor wrote: Seems to be difficult to maintain a NA team if you are not already a stable organisation (EG, coL). We've had Root, LG, VT, sixjax, Reign.
because I dont think they take it seriously enough... in Europe we have it to but less cases, NaVi (Very established team) disbanded
Virus and NaVi in recent times, but other teams in Europe have disbanded and reformed. MYM is pretty dead looking at their SC2 division as well. It happens everywhere sadly. There's just more well established teams in Europe already because of the WC3 background.
Edit: Forgot Praetoriani as well.
CS also , NaVi got so much $$$ out of Dota (and Dota2) and CS i am surprised they dont want to invest a little in Sc2
oh man this isn't cool. i really liked the players from Reign. I hope they find themselves new teams soon to support them. good luck to everyone affected by this
This was very obvious to me the second i saw col.'s post about picking up 3 new players and with announcement today. It was clear to me that its highly possible reign would announce this and then suddenly a few players are picked up.
What a bummer, especially for the rug to be pulled out from under you so suddenly and abruptly. I wish everyone the best of luck in finding a new team.
I feel bad, but its kind of a dick move to sign axslav and then disband a few weeks later. You really had no idea your business might go under in like a month when you signed him?
On February 17 2012 09:03 Solidarity wrote: Yeah, I feel for Axslav especially. He only recently joined and seems to be hitting his stride as a player, and then the team falls apart. Hopefully they all find homes.
Wouldn't be surprised if some of the good players on this team will be getting snapped up by complexity, considering they have announced 3 players being signed. Always sad to see a team go, but I guess things don't always work out.
Demuslim said in an interview at IEM that EG would be filling the house soon, wonder if they knew this was about to happen and some of the Reign guys are going to EG.
Everyone keeps talking about the players and hoping they find homes and I too hope for that, especially for Nick. The bigger ramification of this though is we have lost an up and coming brand in NA that had a good solid starting sponsorship with IGN, that included a team house, etc. Running any team is hard, running a team that needs the capital to compete with the other big teams is even harder. You are either going to invest heavily yourself as some have or you get lucky and land that first sponsor...which leads to the second, etc. This team was the latter situation and just was not able to get enough rolling in time it appears. So, while these players need new teams(sucks), we have now lost a team that for years to come could have given players a home(sucks more). Sad on both counts.
I wasnt really expecting this, for one they do have some good players and they had one of the best jerseys too. I wonder what got them to end it. To be honest the team was pretty weak and since there are a lot of team events at the moment and they are more than likely going to be more in the future so they would need to go get better players if they wanted to compete with teams like EG, Quantic and CoL. I wonder if they are going to make a new team in the future or they are just going to sponsor a team or just stay out of the whole sponsoring thing.
On February 17 2012 11:47 SirScoots wrote: Everyone keeps talking about the players and hoping they find homes and I too hope for that, especially for Nick. The bigger ramification of this though is we have lost an up and coming brand in NA that had a good solid starting sponsorship with IGN, that included a team house, etc. Running any team is hard, running a team that needs the capital to compete with the other big teams is even harder. You are either going to invest heavily yourself as some have or you get lucky and land that first sponsor...which leads to the second, etc. This team was the latter situation and just was not able to get enough rolling in time it appears. So, while these players need new teams(sucks), we have now lost a team that for years to come could have given players a home(sucks more). Sad on both counts.
On February 17 2012 11:47 SirScoots wrote: Everyone keeps talking about the players and hoping they find homes and I too hope for that, especially for Nick. The bigger ramification of this though is we have lost an up and coming brand in NA that had a good solid starting sponsorship with IGN, that included a team house, etc. Running any team is hard, running a team that needs the capital to compete with the other big teams is even harder. You are either going to invest heavily yourself as some have or you get lucky and land that first sponsor...which leads to the second, etc. This team was the latter situation and just was not able to get enough rolling in time it appears. So, while these players need new teams(sucks), we have now lost a team that for years to come could have given players a home(sucks more). Sad on both counts.
Hi just wanted you to know i really respect you . well said massive loss for NA esport
Good luck to all the players involved. Just hope some new teams form and can become that mid tier team before the big time. It just takes one starlet to keep someone that size going imo.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
How in damn hell do you know they did that? Such an unfounded accusation with absolutely no facts to support it.
You're naive. I'm sure IGN has left their business partners completely in the dark and never keep in touch with the management of the team.
Sad to hear it. Reign definitely had a lot of momentum coming out of the gate, but it takes a lot to start a new brand in this day and age. Best of luck to the players and admins.
I was really glad to see Axslav make I threw the fierce qualifiers for mlg winter arena. I was hoping for him to make a splash there and make EG regret their decision to boot him. Now I really hope that this qualification will show other teams that he is worth considering. Wouldn't be surprise if he is one of the new complexity players.
On February 17 2012 12:23 KaptenCulpa wrote: I was really glad to see Axslav make I threw the fierce qualifiers for mlg winter arena. I was hoping for him to make a splash there and make EG regret their decision to boot him. Now I really hope that this qualification will show other teams that he is worth considering. Wouldn't be surprise if he is one of the new complexity players.
how do you know EG booted Axslav? From what Geoff said, it seemed like Reign made him a pretty good offer.
On February 17 2012 09:57 Ubenn wrote: Pretty unprofessional by them picking up Axslav knowing that this is going down. They knew that the ship was sinking and still went out and got him.
Well, if axslav signed a contract with Reign and got a salary, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank now (while looking for a new team)
yeah 3 figures amounts are so life changing
was that his montly salary or the total salary he would have made if the played out the duration of the contract?
I was shocked when this team was created. I was like WTF? Didn't hear much from them. Didn't know they had a sponsor like IGN. Hopefully the players continue to work together as they find new teams to latch onto or perhaps create their own team. It's also a great time for them to be released since the competitive offline LAN season hasn't really kicked off yet in North America and there is still a chance teams will add them quickly. Good luck to Slush, Kiwi, Future, giX, Artist, and Axslav! Can't wait to see all of you kick some butt in 2012!
Reign goes on to beat Mouz and then eventually the whole NASTL. Team decides to split still but have huge love for one another. 10 years later... Eight thirty year old men enter a house to play to win one more time as a team... in Starcraft 3.
On February 17 2012 12:23 KaptenCulpa wrote: I was really glad to see Axslav make I threw the fierce qualifiers for mlg winter arena. I was hoping for him to make a splash there and make EG regret their decision to boot him. Now I really hope that this qualification will show other teams that he is worth considering. Wouldn't be surprise if he is one of the new complexity players.
how do you know EG booted Axslav? From what Geoff said, it seemed like Reign made him a pretty good offer.
Axslav has said on his stream several times that they did not offer him a new contract when his last one expired =(
Well this is unexpected. I really feel bad for Axslav considering he just joined.. but I really thought that this team had some great players. Maybe no stars, but players that could show up and win at any given tournament. Wonder where they will all end up
I feel bad for axslav, he just joined. Why wouldnt they inform him the team wasnt going to be around much longer? Im not in the business or the team side of things. But im sure teams just dont randomly wake up one day and are like "WE"RE DONE BOYS"
On February 17 2012 13:24 -Popsycle- wrote: I feel bad for axslav, he just joined. Why wouldnt they inform him the team wasnt going to be around much longer? Im not in the business or the team side of things. But im sure teams just dont randomly wake up one day and are like "WE"RE DONE BOYS"
Read the OP. IGN and ReIGN parted ways, causing the floor to fall from under ReIGN.
On February 17 2012 12:49 TheRealFluid wrote: Reminds me of team Root all over again Q_Q
How? Root didn't just disband, they were acquired by Complexity. Reign is just gone.
naw it did disband, and then catz drew and minigun went to complexity
destiny too for a short while I believe
im almost positive that ROOT was acquired and members such as kiwikaki chose not to follow root. Leaving them teamless.
no we choose to join reign instead and ddoro choose to join vile
oh yea thats actually what i meant just did not articulate well lol. I meant to say leaving them teamless and free to join any team they wanted to... reign etc. but yea i still do believe that root was acquired right? It just happened so long ago i actually forget the specifics.
Well, not the biggest surprise, as Reign never seemed very 'active' as a team. I mean they had players that played but not much community or events etc. *shrug*
On February 17 2012 11:33 critique wrote: I feel bad, but its kind of a dick move to sign axslav and then disband a few weeks later. You really had no idea your business might go under in like a month when you signed him?
Esports doesn't exactly have the best job security, it's still a super young industry and things can literally change in a matter of minutes. It sucks but it's completely the truth. Hopefully one day (ideally soon) there will be more job security for the players, team owners, casters, league personnel and all the people behind the scenes that help make these things work.
So sad to see my favorite team disband. Good luck to Frank and the rest of his team, such disappointing news.
Man. This somewhat gives credence to what MLG Sundance said about wanting to support teams. If events like this support the teams, I guess there would be more teams. On the other hand, should teams be the ones that are directly supporting the players.
Oh man... I'm heartbroken. They were my favorite team. I... I'm shocked that they would disband actually. I mean yeah they lost in the IPL but... Wow. Guess it's a pricy world out there. Goodluck to all of them.
On February 17 2012 14:43 TheDougler wrote: Oh man... I'm heartbroken. They were my favorite team. I... I'm shocked that they would disband actually. I mean yeah they lost in the IPL but... Wow. Guess it's a pricy world out there. Goodluck to all of them.
The bay area is ridiculously expensive. When I lived there, the cheapest apartment I found for a 1 bed, 1 bath was almost $1800 a month. The next closest I found was in the $2100s or so. It is crazy expensive out there and if you don't have any money coming in, it's nearly impossible to survive out there.
On February 17 2012 14:43 TheDougler wrote: Oh man... I'm heartbroken. They were my favorite team. I... I'm shocked that they would disband actually. I mean yeah they lost in the IPL but... Wow. Guess it's a pricy world out there. Goodluck to all of them.
The bay area is ridiculously expensive. When I lived there, the cheapest apartment I found for a 1 bed, 1 bath was almost $1800 a month. The next closest I found was in the $2100s or so. It is crazy expensive out there and if you don't have any money coming in, it's nearly impossible to survive out there.
I second this. I always thought a team house near SF is a bad idea for that reason. My brother and his gf live in the bay area right now and they have a studio apartment that is like $1400 a month
kiwikaki and axslav are seriously deserving of a quality team i'm actually expecting one of them to be picked up by coL. with their recent announcements that they have new players to add
that said i feel as though liquid should take one of them, they'd be a serious addition to the roster -even without the addition being terran
kiwikaki is a rather large name and a great entertainer with sick builds and overall great play axslav is a solid player who seems as though he is starting to hit his breakout stride (shame eg let him go they could probably have made something out of this now that he is starting to put some results on the table)
I feel sorry for all of the Reign guys, very talented team and one of the "upstart" teams that I really thought could succeed. Looking forward to seeing each and everyone one of them get a new team.
On February 17 2012 14:44 Bedrock wrote: Didn't even know they were sponsored by IGN.
This sucks..
That's why it was always styled as ReIGN I think.. anyway this is sad news, even though they were lesser known they had alot of my more favorite players, like Kiwi and Slush. Best of luck to all of them.
On February 17 2012 14:44 Bedrock wrote: Didn't even know they were sponsored by IGN.
This sucks..
That's why it was always styled as ReIGN I think.. anyway this is sad news, even though they were lesser known they had alot of my more favorite players, like Kiwi and Slush. Best of luck to all of them.
It was reign to begin with, but they emphasized the IGN once IGN bought em
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
On February 17 2012 15:06 JiYan wrote: they had razer besides ign. also for those posting the housing costs of living in SF, i believe the team house was in the East Bay.
still very expensive. My brother isn't right in SF either.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
Wait Zenex and fOu are sponsored?
Mind = blown.
Pretty sure Google and Facebook sponsor fOu.
fOu became FXO actually. I think their sponsor is kinda obvious.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
Wait Zenex and fOu are sponsored?
Mind = blown.
Aren't you supposed to be the insider who knows the scene (especially the management and finances) better than the rest of us? (Since I cannot detect textual sarcasm, I am going to assume that you are being serious here)
On February 17 2012 09:50 Tek_ wrote: I hate to say it, but this is a good lesson to all the teams out there trying to establish themselves. To make it in the long run a team has to establish itself not only through talent, but financially. Being over ambitious can be costly as we see here. Good luck to all the players.
Should be a good lesson for the teams currently around too. I can't imagine many teams around today are doing even close to well financially.
I mean, obviously there's TL, which has a huge fansite, but outside of that I can only really think of EG as financially stable in a meaningful way (maybe coL and Quantic, but I don't know all that much about them to be honest and they don't seem to be nearly as big in the community as far as expanding their brand goes). Then we have for example FXO, which is just a way for a rich guy to waste his money for entertainment (not a real business model), and a lot of poorer teams that aren't really paying meaningful salaries.
I fear for the scene. :\
FXO is a way for a rich guy to dump money? Boss always show his concerns about making the team profitable and already cut the costs by a large margin. To be honest, it's probably the only korean team who really care and for the financial side.
What happend with team Reign is lack of exposure, they had a very little fanbase and never produced any event or something along those lines to bring audience to their sponsors.
I can't speak to the FXO comment, but somehow I doubt that's true. But, what I can speak to, is the bolded part.
How can you even say that? OGS has been going out and picking up sponsors left and right, so has IM. Steelseries, Mom's touch, Burn energy drink. PRIME team has a freakin' clothing store, man! And you're going to sit there and tell us they don't care about money?
And the ultimate caveat to your statement, the ZENEX post ( whether its true or not I don't know) where a team came to an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD asking STRANGERS for money.
Everyone cares about money. Everyone.
Many teams in Korea care for their financials. They just aren't aware of how to correctly capitalise on them.
Majority of korean sponsors are product only. And by majority i mean 95%. They do not provide cash upfront. You have been tricked by marketing methods.
I am not going to say I am the messiah of korean e-sports, because its not true. But people who accuse me of being reckless of money are just stupid....
Its easy to hold onto $5000, its hard to hold onto $5 million because every man and his dog is out to take it off you with the e-sports community sometimes being no exception. I get countless emails, some saying "For just 200k, we can run a successful team and organisation that will be profitable for you".. All I can say is I run businesses for a living and am good at it albeit I am a little insane, but I am good at my job. If I haven't profited from e-sports then there is no way some sc2 player with a 200k purse is going to do it. Unless his method is to put that 200k into a bank and earn interest. But then where does that get you? And taxes would eat most interest levels these days.
On February 17 2012 15:06 JiYan wrote: they had razer besides ign. also for those posting the housing costs of living in SF, i believe the team house was in the East Bay.
I lived in the east bay as well, sadly didn't get to see their team house before I moved home. Boo for not having a car!
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
esport-teams will hardly write black numbers since the costs will be always higher then the income. The only way is selling time on streams to commercials, but atm i think the "normal" ppl aren´t interested or do not know export, so no popularity=no TV= no money. It´s sad but maybe time will change and teams will survive, export will survive :D
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
Wait Zenex and fOu are sponsored?
Mind = blown.
Pretty sure Google and Facebook sponsor fOu.
fOu became FXO actually. I think their sponsor is kinda obvious.
On February 17 2012 09:26 turamn wrote: Can't really say that it matters all that much, honestly. They were a middling North American team who never accomplished much. Sucks for the guys who have to need to find new teams, but when you don't post any results at all, you can't expect to stick around forever.
EDIT: For all the people who will quote this and say that I'm a douchebag, it is what it is. Sorry for being a realist.
Spoken like a true idiot who doesnt understand how a sporting scene works. In any sport, there needs to be the underdogs, middle level contenders and top level champions in order for the scene to thrive and to allow new talent to rise up through the ranks of the game. Look at the Korean scene for example.Without a team like ZeNeX or the old fOu team, we wouldnt have any of the new talent that we see on the scene today (like Byun, Puzzle, Taeja and so on).
The easiest way to identify the death of the game is when all the lower level teams start dying or disbanding, and only a few top level teams and top level players remain who keep playing over and over in the all the tournaments and finally the competition dies out(just look at wc3).
In reality, I am more worried when a middle level team or a low level team dies out. These teams form the pillars of the scene, and the players in these teams are usually talented individuals who perform exceptionally well, considering the limited resources and practise environments that they are provided with. But they would definitely have a harder time getting recognized and picked up by other teams. I would not worry so much if a team like EG or mouz disbands, because I know for sure that these players would get easily picked up by any team, and they will continue to play the game in some form or the other.
So next time you post such senseless shit, step back for a minute and think about what you post, and whether it makes any sense.
Why don't YOU take your own advice and "take a step back for minute."
Everything operates as a business. If your team doesn't pay for itself, how the hell can you possibly expect the Team house to continue supporting its players? Where does that money come from? When you lose your sponsors...and in this case a big one...and there's not enough of the smaller ones to put money on the table...how can the team continue?
Look at the names affected. How many of them have won enough tournaments or otherwise generated enough money to justify themselves?
Since you're so knowledgeable, how about you enlighten us on how these "underdogs" finance themselves or stay alive to make a difference? If you're starving with no room over your head, you're not gonna be the next NBA player no matter how much you wish otherwise. Someone has to support you, sponsor you, or what not. And when that organization simply doesn't have the funds to, or simply can't...you figure out this, big guy.
Zenex, FOU and the rest are all sponsored, and have multiple sponsors too by the way. Quite unlike this team which...who did they have(aside from IGN)?
In the end the herd is culled and there will be casualties. It's sad but sometimes hey - in real life you are simply not going to succeed no matter how much you wish otherwise, without being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, having the right skillset, having the right support, etc.
Wait Zenex and fOu are sponsored?
Mind = blown.
Pretty sure Google and Facebook sponsor fOu.
There is no fOu o_o
Guys, it was a joke and a pretty obvious one at that. Quoting FXOBoss, saying facebook and google cause of Boss saying we shouldnt compare esports companies to them and the fact that they are huge companies that if they were sponsoring someone, everyone would know.
On February 17 2012 16:13 Flamingo777 wrote: Wow, now I speculate a little more about who Complexity is picking up.
There was a korean flag behind the Silhouette, and they did emphasize on the LEGENDS part, 2 people on the caliber of NADA. so... sadly it probably wont be anybody from Reign.
So looks like VT is completely dead huh... I checked the VT gaming website out of curiosity - wow, they launched a new website a month before it disbanded in July.
On February 17 2012 17:24 Inori wrote: the bubble has bursted
Because one team entirely reliable on one sponsor is let go from that very sponsor? No.
I do want to echo the points made about the cost of renting a house in the Bay Area, it's pretty expensive and was probably not the smartest use of money.
Kind of unexepected, but i was starting to worry after seeing all of their players lose in individual leagues and team leagues.. It's pretty obvious IGN didn't want to continue support after how poorly they did in IPL's own team league.
It was hard not to be skeptical about ReIGN. They gave a TON of support to up-and-comers, which rarely ever pays off. I mean, other than Kiwikaki, the rest of the team had no major wins.
Ah man that really sucks, I started to really like REIGN and they had a cool lineup. Hope everyone finds new teams soon, and gl to everyone in the future
Also must really suck for Axlav, he just found a new team...
Not to derail the thread, but seeing where Kiwi streams pretty much confirm he was the one playing under Athene smurf when he was bragging how good he was at every game.
Yesterday afternoon Team Reign and IGN decided to part ways, which unfortunately means Reign will now also be disbanding. Having only existed for a short time, we have not grown enough as an organization to currently be able to provide for our players in the manner we promised without the support of a large sponsor like IGN.
Though many variables may suggest this was planned -- Artist returning to Korea, and Spades departing -- the disbandment is just as unexpected for us as it may be for our fans. We had a great number of plans to grow the organization, and we definitely weren't short on hope for the next tournament season, especially with both Artist and Axslav qualifying for the MLG Winter Championship. Sadly, it seems that wasn't enough to stand up to reality.
All the same, the shortcoming of the organization should not reflect on the achievements of our players, who we hope will go on to prosper in new teams. It is our hope that the fans of the StarCraft community will also lend their support to our players as they transition to new places (by watching their streams, following them on Twitter, and saying nice things to them.)
We'd like to thank everyone who has supported us over the past 8 months. Our fans, Razer, and IGN for the opportunity. It has all meant a great deal to us. Thank you!
As a final note, Reign will play out the NASTL season as a team until it ends or enough of our players have found new homes that we no longer have the roster to compete. (Who could really turn down a chance to play Mouz, after all?)
Now please, bring on the "reign ends" puns. They helps us forget the pain.
This was bound to happen because of the way VT was managed, I hope you have learned the lessons of managing people better for your next venture.
Now reign has to win the NASTL. They get to the finals with only Artist left on their team... He takes out all but the opponent teams ace, and then falls... shock and dismay fills the room, and then... then, Spades returns to fight the final match! Spades takes it and Reign disbands as champions!
On February 17 2012 18:23 Nizzy wrote: Actually pretty shocking, I thought they were kind of solid at the moment...
damn poor axslav just moved in too
Esports is far more volatile than most people realise. You realise both MLG and GSL have gone on record saying they're running at a loss at the moment? There's very few people making any money out of SC2 at the moment and that's wyh its vital the scene continues to grow but at the moment its stalling and its started falling off. Watch this space.
On February 17 2012 18:23 Nizzy wrote: Actually pretty shocking, I thought they were kind of solid at the moment...
damn poor axslav just moved in too
Esports is far more volatile than most people realise. You realise both MLG and GSL have gone on record saying they're running at a loss at the moment? There's very few people making any money out of SC2 at the moment and that's wyh its vital the scene continues to grow but at the moment its stalling and its started falling off. Watch this space.
Yeah and that's even considering SC2 is one of the most stable esports out there. Once you see what the Dota scene was/is like, you feel like SC2's proscene is incredible.
GL to all the players. Hope you find teams soon, or at least post good results to help pad your wallets in the meantime.
Off-topic: It seems classless to post comments with an agenda in this thread - y'know, things like "the end times are upon us, hide your eSports" and "this is why MLG PPV" and crap like that. Let's stick to the players and management that just got dropped under a bus by a large media company specializing in gaming. They can use support, not finger pointing and hand waving about other things. There are other threads for that kind of discussion.
Back on-topic. coL is announcing new players, but unless the first call after getting notified by IGN was to coL, I don't think it will be the RGN players. But I don't see Axslav, Kiwikaki, or Slush going for long without finding a new home. Would be kindof bittersweet if you guys started stomping in the team leagues for as long as you are able to keep it going.
On February 17 2012 20:45 Hopelessnoob wrote: Think Kiwi may join coL? i don't think so due to him rejecting them in the past... axvlav IMO will go to coL.
This is very sad due to te house barely up for a few months and the team has disbanded...
coL is getting 3 new players (none of them were on Reign) and already have one of the largest rosters, just how many players do people think they can have?
On February 17 2012 21:00 moge wrote: Ya couldn't have given a brother a heads up?
No one knew about this until a couple days ago, apparently. Sad
I feel really bad for axslav. Hes getting more popular, and his play was improving and he had some results in the NA qualifier for MLG. Too bad Really too bad.
Then There's kiwikaki and slush who always have good results at MLG and other LAN competitions.
Kinda surprising how volatile the NA scene is. A few months ago every top 100 GM player plus their grandmothers went for the fulltime route, teamhouses were formed and talentsquads were created. 3 months later the first teams vanished and NA Pros were substituted by Korean B-Teamers. Now with Col investing a fortune into Korean superstars and Reign disbanding there is a serious risk that the competitive NA scene is coming down to Idra and Huk. Kiwikaki seemingly sees better perspectives in Poker whereas Slush and Axslav might find new teams but it certainly will put their motaivation to a test. I hope that the NA player base doesn`t lose their spirit and continues to establish a solid fundaments that helps to keep their scene sustainable.
Kiwi would never join EG; he's always been on smaller teams. Liquid? Maybe. I'd love to see Liquid pick these guys up; then ALL my favorite Protoss would be in one place - Kiwi, Inori, Axslav, and Hero. But the likelihood of that happening isn't so good...
Also does anyone know if Inori will still be in the US after this? He was supposed to come here this month; what's going to happen with that?
On February 18 2012 03:08 Attican wrote: That's a shame, I wonder what made IGN suddenly pull the plug. It's gonna be interesting to see where Kiwikaki ends up though.
Paying for a team house and players to travel to events is quite expensive, and Reign has not been putting up any results. So this move is unsurprising.
Slush and Kiwikaki are gonna be picked up really quick, they could be the two best USA players next to sheth and IdrA. Really pumped to see where they go.
On February 18 2012 05:02 BushidoSnipr wrote: Slush and Kiwikaki are gonna be picked up really quick, they could be the two best USA players next to sheth and IdrA. Really pumped to see where they go.
You know Slush and Kiwikaki are french-canadians? you are trolling right?
On February 18 2012 05:02 BushidoSnipr wrote: Slush and Kiwikaki are gonna be picked up really quick, they could be the two best USA players next to sheth and IdrA. Really pumped to see where they go.
Troll im assuming? Slush and Kiwi are both Canadian.
On February 18 2012 03:08 Attican wrote: That's a shame, I wonder what made IGN suddenly pull the plug. It's gonna be interesting to see where Kiwikaki ends up though.
I'm not sure if this was stated earlier, but with Complexity still retaining 2 unannounced additions to their team, it's likely that someone here has another home waiting for them. At least, we can hope...
On February 18 2012 06:24 Phonikz wrote: I'm not sure if this was stated earlier, but with Complexity still retaining 2 unannounced additions to their team, it's likely that someone here has another home waiting for them. At least, we can hope...
Poor Axslav. That's got to feel like getting pushed down by the guy who just picked you up after falling, even though there's certainly no bad intention behind this.
Also, one less team out there certainly won't help competition.
I liked reign. They were like the underdog of the SC2 world imo. They had good talent but weren't a big team name like TL, or EG. (I'm speaking only of NA teams obviously) Sad to see them go.
On February 17 2012 09:03 dabom88 wrote: Looks like their Reign *puts on sunglasses* has come to an end.
YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
Hope the players have good luck in their future in finding new teams.
haha I thought you were just making a reign pun first. took me a few seconds when I thought about the sunglasses thing until I made the connection with the redheaded csi miami guy. nice one lol.
On February 18 2012 15:21 Gexs wrote: Liquid`KiWiKaKi and Liquid`Artist! :D
Not sure either of those would be a good pick up to be honest. Neither have shown impressive results recently (eventhough Artist did qualify for MLG).
I do feel Liquid could use another terran but I'm going to guess that it's more likely that they'll wait until people like SjoW/ThorZain's contracts expire and then grab another player.
As to Kiwi: while I love seeing his play he doesn't strike me as the guy that desperatly needs a team. Also his results have been shaky and I personally haven't seen anything noteworthy after his WCG run.
This doesn't suprise me. I remember seeing an 'inside look' at reign a while ago and thinking to myself, "Jeez, they seem so unprofessional". I'm not trying to talk shit, but I really did get that impression.
On February 18 2012 15:21 Gexs wrote: Liquid`KiWiKaKi and Liquid`Artist! :D
Not sure either of those would be a good pick up to be honest. Neither have shown impressive results recently (eventhough Artist did qualify for MLG).
I do feel Liquid could use another terran but I'm going to guess that it's more likely that they'll wait until people like SjoW/ThorZain's contracts expire and then grab another player.
As to Kiwi: while I love seeing his play he doesn't strike me as the guy that desperatly needs a team. Also his results have been shaky and I personally haven't seen anything noteworthy after his WCG run.
Well you never know Artist is grand master on the korean server and can put up some good results I think any team would be lucky to have him.
On February 18 2012 17:10 SC2NeCro wrote: Replace Lzgamer with SLush you won't be disappointed. Add Axslav to LighT. Add Rain to Liquid they need more Terrans. Liquid.Rain... lol
On February 18 2012 15:21 Gexs wrote: Liquid`KiWiKaKi and Liquid`Artist! :D
Not sure either of those would be a good pick up to be honest. Neither have shown impressive results recently (eventhough Artist did qualify for MLG).
I do feel Liquid could use another terran but I'm going to guess that it's more likely that they'll wait until people like SjoW/ThorZain's contracts expire and then grab another player.
As to Kiwi: while I love seeing his play he doesn't strike me as the guy that desperatly needs a team. Also his results have been shaky and I personally haven't seen anything noteworthy after his WCG run.
Well you never know Artist is grand master on the korean server and can put up some good results I think any team would be lucky to have him.
Well artist is probably slightly worse than zenio and maybe as good as hero so if he joins liquid, everyone will hype him up to be a top class terran as well.
On February 18 2012 15:21 Gexs wrote: Liquid`KiWiKaKi and Liquid`Artist! :D
Not sure either of those would be a good pick up to be honest. Neither have shown impressive results recently (eventhough Artist did qualify for MLG).
I do feel Liquid could use another terran but I'm going to guess that it's more likely that they'll wait until people like SjoW/ThorZain's contracts expire and then grab another player.
As to Kiwi: while I love seeing his play he doesn't strike me as the guy that desperatly needs a team. Also his results have been shaky and I personally haven't seen anything noteworthy after his WCG run.
Well you never know Artist is grand master on the korean server and can put up some good results I think any team would be lucky to have him.
Well artist is probably slightly worse than zenio and maybe as good as hero so if he joins liquid, everyone will hype him up to be a top class terran as well.
wait, what has Artist done to be on the level or close to that of Code S/A players that have won major tournaments? Sorry, but Artist is not on the level of Hero and Zenio.
I guess I'm the only one who saw this coming? Practically zero budget, no participation in overseas tournaments, less appearances in general for all players involved, and a noticeable decline in their performance as well. I hope they pick up the pace fast; they're all awesome and deserve a team that will back them up 100%.
It's only gonna happen more and more. Those low profile teams are gonna disband untill the real top teams remain. You can't run a team that post no success at all.
On February 18 2012 20:52 bashalisk wrote: I hope they pick up the pace fast; they're all awesome and deserve a team that will back them up 100%.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
From the start I don't see how a player can think there's job security in any game. The game is always changing, and in rare cases will a player always be on top. Just like in any real job, if a person is under performing, they're cut. I don't see any real accomplishments or any players that stick out to me from this team that could make a good run in a big event, currently. While there are some solid players on the roster, I'm really not sure why IGN would sponsor them, as I don't feel any are at the level anymore that could yield the results IGN wanted.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
No, good players have plenty of job security. Wanting a union just so that an average/mediocre employee get to keep their job regardless of results is not a good reason to want or form a union.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
From the start I don't see how a player can think there's job security in any game. The game is always changing, and in rare cases will a player always be on top. Just like in any real job, if a person is under performing, they're cut. I don't see any real accomplishments or any players that stick out to me from this team that could make a good run in a big event, currently. While there are some solid players on the roster, I'm really not sure why IGN would sponsor them, as I don't feel any are at the level anymore that could yield the results IGN wanted.
A job at walmart stocking shelves has more job security and probably pays more for much less effort than a progamer exerts. I don't see why you seem to think it's unreasonable for a player to desire more job security. I don't see how reign was underperforming, either; IGN only sponsored them for like 6 months.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
From the start I don't see how a player can think there's job security in any game. The game is always changing, and in rare cases will a player always be on top. Just like in any real job, if a person is under performing, they're cut. I don't see any real accomplishments or any players that stick out to me from this team that could make a good run in a big event, currently. While there are some solid players on the roster, I'm really not sure why IGN would sponsor them, as I don't feel any are at the level anymore that could yield the results IGN wanted.
A job at walmart stocking shelves has more job security and probably pays more for much less effort than a progamer exerts. I don't see why you seem to think it's unreasonable for a player to desire more job security. I don't see how reign was underperforming, either; IGN only sponsored them for like 6 months.
A person working at Walmart stocking shelves has no desire to really improve. Sure, there will be cases of people who work their ass off and get promoted. If you're handing out job security, what gives these players any desire to get better? Like you said, it takes a lot of effort to be at the top. If these guys can make salaries, live in a team house rent free, get travel paid, etc, and are guaranteed a spot, what in the hell will force them to actually be motivated? They may think, "Well, to get on MVP's level it will be near impossible. I might as well just milk it."
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
tt1 is just scared, because he knows he's completely iirelevant. he's probably next on the chopping block, only a matter of time, before he's booted from mtw and mtw instead gets some real players on their payroll.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
Really? Fucking really? You're stupid enough to compare TT1 to Ma Bonjwa Match Fixer.
That's like comparing a slight summer breeze to a city-destroying hurricane.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
LOL yea cus match fixing for thousands of dollars and maphacking on the wgt ladder is completly the same thing, and to the other posters u are extremely clueless : D
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
LOL yea cus match fixing for thousands of dollars and maphacking on the wgt ladder is completly the same thing, and to the other posters u are extremely clueless : D
cheating is cheating.
you're completely irrelevant and you know it. you will never win any tournament with any notable players.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
LOL yea cus match fixing for thousands of dollars and maphacking on the wgt ladder is completly the same thing, and to the other posters u are extremely clueless : D
cheating is cheating.
you're completely irrelevant and you know it. you will never win any tournament with any notable players.
u could be right but u will always remain insignificant ^_^
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
LOL yea cus match fixing for thousands of dollars and maphacking on the wgt ladder is completly the same thing, and to the other posters u are extremely clueless : D
Sorry TT1, I just thought that the betrayed of the idea of fair play is what matters in this case when you called for fairness and players union to protect that fairness you call job security.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
LOL yea cus match fixing for thousands of dollars and maphacking on the wgt ladder is completly the same thing, and to the other posters u are extremely clueless : D
cheating is cheating.
you're completely irrelevant and you know it. you will never win any tournament with any notable players.
u could be right but u will always remain insignificant ^_^
good comeback.
nice try though, considering, I'm not a progamer. I make plenty of money in my profession. You're a "progamer" and all you did is cheat and whine now about how you should be coddled, because you're not good enough.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
LOL yea cus match fixing for thousands of dollars and maphacking on the wgt ladder is completly the same thing, and to the other posters u are extremely clueless : D
cheating is cheating.
you're completely irrelevant and you know it. you will never win any tournament with any notable players.
u could be right but u will always remain insignificant ^_^
good comeback.
nice try though, considering, I'm not a progamer. I make plenty of money in my profession. You're a "progamer" and all you did is cheat and whine now about how you should be coddled, because you're not good enough.
=]
Bro, you're either:
a) extremely jelly b) suffer from a mental disability or c) have a foot long dragon dildo lodged in your anus.
You're an idiot. Kindly shut up and go somewhere else.
ESFI has a really good article on the split of Reign and IGN. They talked to David Ting of IGN and Frank Fields of Reign. Really good read, really good journalism.
According to Frank "Mirhi" Fields, Reign’s former owner, he had met with IGN’s core team (which includes IGN E-sports General Manager David Ting) two-and-a-half weeks prior to the team becoming defunct. On the agenda was for Fields to address any concerns that IGN had about the team, which included discussions about Reign’s general direction and content production plans; performance benchmarks were also set and, according to Fields, both parties left the meeting satisfied
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
It's obviously a joke when Savior gets banned for life and you gets to play on GomTV.
LOL yea cus match fixing for thousands of dollars and maphacking on the wgt ladder is completly the same thing, and to the other posters u are extremely clueless : D
cheating is cheating.
you're completely irrelevant and you know it. you will never win any tournament with any notable players.
u could be right but u will always remain insignificant ^_^
good comeback.
nice try though, considering, I'm not a progamer. I make plenty of money in my profession. You're a "progamer" and all you did is cheat and whine now about how you should be coddled, because you're not good enough.
=]
You don't need to be a progamer to be significant. I agree with TT1, you will always remain insignificant.
This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.
That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.
I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..
On February 19 2012 11:18 VillageBC wrote: It didn't make sense for IGN to be promoting a league as well as a team. Doesn't change the fact that it's still a shame though. Kiwikaki to EG.
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
the players werent kicked off the team, the team ceased to exist. why are you mad at the team?
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
From the start I don't see how a player can think there's job security in any game. The game is always changing, and in rare cases will a player always be on top. Just like in any real job, if a person is under performing, they're cut. I don't see any real accomplishments or any players that stick out to me from this team that could make a good run in a big event, currently. While there are some solid players on the roster, I'm really not sure why IGN would sponsor them, as I don't feel any are at the level anymore that could yield the results IGN wanted.
A job at walmart stocking shelves has more job security and probably pays more for much less effort than a progamer exerts. I don't see why you seem to think it's unreasonable for a player to desire more job security. I don't see how reign was underperforming, either; IGN only sponsored them for like 6 months.
Well someone working at walmart is actually doing something more productive and essential to our society. If you ask the average person if they'd rather want their stores stocked or be able to watch some guys play video games, you'll notice a pattern quickly.
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote: This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.
That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.
I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..
Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.
Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.
Another team gone. Oh well. im more worried about the players. Especially kiwi, slush, and Axlsav. I believe i heard catz say that kiwi wouldnt want to join another team, i just hope he keeps playing. I have no idea where slush could possibly, go, although he is so good I only hope he gets on a good team soon. Then, axslav, man he just got into the team and now he is out. I feel like he might have some trouble finding a team. best of luck to all of them.
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote: This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.
That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.
I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..
Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.
Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.
Are you Dawn?
I dunno what I should say, but I don't think anyone on the old VT team really thought that spades was a level above everyone else, and his attitude was a bit.. disrespectful to everyone else.
VT wanted to keep me as VT. If you recall, they were planning to keep the VT squad, and send those top performing members to events and consider them for reign. Considering my position in the scene/team at the time, I didn't feel that was fair to be - felt like I was being cut even though I delivered solid results then. Basically, to make the most of Reign, I would have to commit to a team house - if I was older and able to do that at the time of Reign forming, I think I almost certainly would have been kept. I didn't feel like reign was going to be offering me what I wanted in the future, as I felt their main priority was the house and having players live there.
And yes, I actually did talk to reign about joining their team about two weeks ago. I chose not to and stayed with itsgosu, ironically because I felt itsgosu was more stable as far as sponsors go. Someone actually even said to me, and this is one of the things that influenced my decision: "If you were IGN, would you be happy with Reign's performance?" to which I said "probably not". Reign did seem a little bit to be on the downswing, although even I definitely did not expect this to happen, even having been in negotiations with Reign until one week before they disbanded with no warning of such happening. @_@
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote: This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.
That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.
I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..
Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.
Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.
Are you Dawn?
I dunno what I should say, but I don't think anyone on the old VT team really thought that spades was a level above everyone else, and his attitude was a bit.. disrespectful to everyone else.
VT wanted to keep me as VT. If you recall, they were planning to keep the VT squad, and send those top performing members to events and consider them for reign. Considering my position in the scene/team at the time, I didn't feel that was fair to be - felt like I was being cut even though I delivered solid results then. Basically, to make the most of Reign, I would have to commit to a team house - if I was older and able to do that at the time of Reign forming, I think I almost certainly would have been kept. I didn't feel like reign was going to be offering me what I wanted in the future, as I felt their main priority was the house and having players live there.
And yes, I actually did talk to reign about joining their team about two weeks ago. I chose not to and stayed with itsgosu, ironically because I felt itsgosu was more stable as far as sponsors go. Someone actually even said to me, and this is one of the things that influenced my decision: "If you were IGN, would you be happy with Reign's performance?" to which I said "probably not". Reign did seem a little bit to be on the downswing, although even I definitely did not expect this to happen, even having been in negotiations with Reign until one week before they disbanded with no warning of such happening. @_@
Yep yep, Dawn here.
I never sat in on the conversations, I just heard it mostly through Frank as it was happening. I think he was really torn and wanted you there but was dealing with a lot of pressure from the other people on staff who didn't want to allocate salary to you because of your age and how much you'd be able to commit with school. Ultimately, I don't think that would have mattered since the practice hours they picked would have worked out for you. I wish now that I'd been more involved in Reign management when it was formed though. I never would have expected their decisions in June to have affected things now, in February, but they did.
I am glad you stayed with It's Gosu though. For stability, like you said, and because with Doa working with you guys now I have a lot of expectations for what the team can become. I am a bit sad that you left VT though. A day or two before you left I told Frank I had wanted to take over managing VT since no one else had stepped up. He said he'd want to have a talk with the players about that, and then before we had the chance everyone was gone except Avilo and MrBitter (and we already knew then MrBitter was going to Germany.) I would have really liked to see what I could have done with VT on my own, with my own contacts and sponsors from the WoW world.
it's quite weird how this happen. Why would a team sign a new player (axslav) knowing that it would disband? Probably because the team didn't know it was going to disband. So what could have possibly happened to cause a team to disband in an instant?!?!?! We know it was certainly not on the team meetings as they were looking for more players (example- in talks with Pokebunny).
So for a team to just disband out of the blue is very ... mysterious. Something BIG must have happened behind the scenes we, the public, do not know about.
so where did you think kiwi and artist will land they are both really strong players liquid could use another terran although artist doesnt seem to be the type of player they normally go after.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Kiwi go teamless, attend regional events (MLG, IPL, etc.) and spend more time playing poker. It's honestly a better time investment if you're good at it, can make more money without playing as much.
Hopefully the other full-time progamers can find a home, feel bad for Axslav, but I don't think he'll have a problem getting with another team soon.
On February 19 2012 06:54 Nizzy wrote: This is going to sound BM and ignorant because I just don't play anymore, I just don't know how else to say it. However even when he was in VT gaming back in late 2010, early 2011 and when my old team elevengaming would match VT in clan wars, our whole team always thought Spades was not a good player. I'm just really surprised a whole organization would rally or promote him as a brand like IGN did or even as Frank pushed for it.
That information is coming from the esfiworld article about Reign.
I mean come on, Spades has only been able to average 80 viewers and he was streaming (featured) for a very long time. Just not a smart decision imo... He's just not even a fan favorite. Reign would have done better keeping Pokebunny and promoting him over Spades..
Both Spades and Kiwikaki were in IPL1. I think that's why IGN believed they were the most marketable players. They knew those players from working with them before and I guess they felt that meant more than anything. We told them again and again that Artist was consistently referred to as our best player, but I don't think that meant much.
Frank, Spades, and Exia (founding member, was supposed to be the team coach) actually wanted to keep Pokebunny for Reign, but because he was underage and still a full-time student there were limitations on what Reign could or would offer him. He went to All4one as a result. [I don't know all the details on this though, because I was only observing it from the outside. I didn't become part of the team's administrative staff until a few weeks later.] Since then though, Pokebunny actually came to us with the idea of coming back, but it was so recently that we didn't really have a chance to talk things over with him or his current team.
Are you Dawn?
I dunno what I should say, but I don't think anyone on the old VT team really thought that spades was a level above everyone else, and his attitude was a bit.. disrespectful to everyone else.
VT wanted to keep me as VT. If you recall, they were planning to keep the VT squad, and send those top performing members to events and consider them for reign. Considering my position in the scene/team at the time, I didn't feel that was fair to be - felt like I was being cut even though I delivered solid results then. Basically, to make the most of Reign, I would have to commit to a team house - if I was older and able to do that at the time of Reign forming, I think I almost certainly would have been kept. I didn't feel like reign was going to be offering me what I wanted in the future, as I felt their main priority was the house and having players live there.
And yes, I actually did talk to reign about joining their team about two weeks ago. I chose not to and stayed with itsgosu, ironically because I felt itsgosu was more stable as far as sponsors go. Someone actually even said to me, and this is one of the things that influenced my decision: "If you were IGN, would you be happy with Reign's performance?" to which I said "probably not". Reign did seem a little bit to be on the downswing, although even I definitely did not expect this to happen, even having been in negotiations with Reign until one week before they disbanded with no warning of such happening. @_@
Yep yep, Dawn here.
I never sat in on the conversations, I just heard it mostly through Frank as it was happening. I think he was really torn and wanted you there but was dealing with a lot of pressure from the other people on staff who didn't want to allocate salary to you because of your age and how much you'd be able to commit with school. Ultimately, I don't think that would have mattered since the practice hours they picked would have worked out for you. I wish now that I'd been more involved in Reign management when it was formed though. I never would have expected their decisions in June to have affected things now, in February, but they did.
I am glad you stayed with It's Gosu though. For stability, like you said, and because with Doa working with you guys now I have a lot of expectations for what the team can become. I am a bit sad that you left VT though. A day or two before you left I told Frank I had wanted to take over managing VT since no one else had stepped up. He said he'd want to have a talk with the players about that, and then before we had the chance everyone was gone except Avilo and MrBitter (and we already knew then MrBitter was going to Germany.) I would have really liked to see what I could have done with VT on my own, with my own contacts and sponsors from the WoW world.
With all due respect to the other members of VT at the time, once I left it was pretty much clear that VT was done lol. Azz and Whiplash leaving just put the nail in the coffin further but I was the only real name player on the roster at the time.. I admit it might have been a bit of a sudden decision but I really was not comfortable with everything that was going on at the time >>
On February 19 2012 03:17 iSofisticated wrote: I'll never support IGN again.
0_0
Do you mean they should pump unlimited money into a team that provides almost zero return on investment ?
i think players should start leaving teams whenever they feel like it from now on aswell, lets even things out if we cant trust teams anymore then they shouldnt be able to trust us either, right?
edit: and i have no idea wat ur talking about when u say they were getting no return on their investment, our job's as players is to advertise our sponsors and thats wat they were doing, on top of that they were putting up better results(in teamleagues) than teams that had like 10-20x their payrolls
this is why we need a players union but theres no one we can turn to to start something like that up.. we have 0 job security because our industry is a joke
From the start I don't see how a player can think there's job security in any game. The game is always changing, and in rare cases will a player always be on top. Just like in any real job, if a person is under performing, they're cut. I don't see any real accomplishments or any players that stick out to me from this team that could make a good run in a big event, currently. While there are some solid players on the roster, I'm really not sure why IGN would sponsor them, as I don't feel any are at the level anymore that could yield the results IGN wanted.
A job at walmart stocking shelves has more job security and probably pays more for much less effort than a progamer exerts. I don't see why you seem to think it's unreasonable for a player to desire more job security. I don't see how reign was underperforming, either; IGN only sponsored them for like 6 months.
The problem is the entire model of e-sports teams is flawed.
Basically a team just re-sells advertising. They are a middle man between a product (players) and potential advertisers (sponsors). If the product (players) doesn't appeal to the advertisers (be it because of lack of professionalism, popularity, results, whatever) what can the team realistically do?
Being a professional gamer is less a job and more selling your services. If no one wants your services, you lose your source of income. Think of a pro gamer as a prostitute working in a brothel. Customers come in, they pick a whore. If they don't pick you, you make no money. Sad reality but that is just the way it is. And there is no easy fix.
I just bought their stickers from I Heart Esports. It was very depressing, like purchasing a bunch of obituary ads. The stickers are very cool though, they had a bad ass line up.
Anyway, big disappointment to see this team disband. Perhaps not the most "elite" team around but some nice players and solid foundations for something really quite good there for a while. Not to mention the fact I was so happy for Axslav that he managed to find a team again so soon after dropping from EG.
Kiwi would actually find it really difficult to find a team imo ... what he'd ask for in salary vs the fact that he plays poker more than SC right now is a pretty big limiting factor
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NISiy.png)
SLush | @slushSC2 | twitch.tv/SLush![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DaPT3.png)
| ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/23uo4.png)
KiWiKaKi | @ROOTKiWiKaKi | athenelive.com/KiWiKaKi![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xM9N1.png)
Artist | @artistsc2 | twitch.tv/RGNartist
nooo
