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MLG Winter Arena to be PPV - Page 24

Forum Index > SC2 General
4945 CommentsPost a Reply
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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.

Bans will be handed out.

Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either.
Talack
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada2742 Posts
February 13 2012 23:38 GMT
#461
Not paying 20 dollars : /
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
February 13 2012 23:38 GMT
#462
$20 is totally reasonable if you're going to be watching the whole thing and flipping between all the streams, etc. But realistically, there are plenty of people who don't have that luxury. I'm busy Friday and Saturday. I'd love to tune in on Sunday for semis and finals or so, but that's not nearly enough to make it worth $20. And by the time the VODs come out, I'll be spoiled and won't really care any more. So it looks like I'll probably just end up not watching any of this. :-/
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
February 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#463
On February 14 2012 08:22 shinyA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 08:06 Xxio wrote:
lol you people saying $20 dollars is too much. It's such a good deal - just how poor are you?
you've all been spoiled by free, unsustainable, low standard content, says I

That's not the point.

For MLG to charge $20 for 2 days for an event, you have to weigh that price against other things that we have. You don't just ignore the competitive prices of other events when you go to pay for something. You don't go to the grocery store and buy something for more money when you can get something the same or better for less.

GSL charges less and has higher production and still offers a free alternative. Assembly will have free HD streams going on at the same time as this MLG event. We've had previous MLG, Dreamhack, GSL, etc all for free and to be honest it's been MLG that's been more known for 'technical difficulties and crappy formats' than any of the others yet they are the ones going first for the PPV model?

My first thought was comparing MLG to GSL. GSL you get a few months of content for $5 less and GSL has a higher prize pool, why is it then that GSL gives more money to the players and charges less? MLG is doing something wrong, I know they are paying travel and what not but they also seem to have more sponsors than GSL and they run ads, which GSL doesn't.

All in all, I feel like they are being extremely greedy and if someone can't/doesn't want to pay $20 for MLG you shouldn't call THEM greedy or poor because it's MLG who's begging for money.



The problem with your argument is the lack of sustainability of western professional SC2. The argument we should "weigh that price against other things that we have" would inevitably lead to there never being PPV tournaments, since as you say we've had and continue to have some free HD tournaments. The fact that you point to Assembly's free HD as a standard by which we should compare the MLG PPV is telling. Moreover the comparison to GSL is unfair because GSL has access to a domestic audience where Starcraft is already popular. Thus GSL has a foundation to work from that western tournaments do not. So it's reasonable for western tournaments to charge more than GSL does.

If we believe what Sundance is telling us (and I don't think he would lie to the community), then there needs to be some cash infusion from the community if MLG (and probably other western tournaments) is to continue existing at its current quality level. Now, if you don't think you have $20 to spare, that's certainly your prerogative. But to say that the price of western SC2 PPV should always correspond to its market value when compared to Korean (read: GSL) tournaments is to say that you're fine with western pro SC2 dying out sooner than later.

For the sake of esports, I and I believe many others will be paying for this. And while I know a plea for civility is probably futile on an internet forum, you shouldn't use exaggerated language such as "greedy" if you want this thread to be a productive discussion.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
February 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#464
can we have the poll posted in the OP?
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
February 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#465
Oh my god. This thread is making me facepalm so hard.


You guys want esports to grow, but when the opportunity arises, you decide that it's a bad idea. The majority of you complaining about this are not thinking this through very clearly. Yeah, it's $20 for only 3 days. Do you know how businesses grow though? They do things like PPV, where they don't have to keep pouring their own money into a product.

I don't know. I can't even begin to tell you how disgusted I am at most of you replying with "Oh my god, $20 is dumb. Not watching. horrible idea." Get real. If you guys actually understood how the real world works, you wouldn't be complaining and would be advocating this idea. But it seems you all live with your parents, or someone still pays for your shit.
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
UncleSam
Profile Joined February 2011
Spain62 Posts
February 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#466
Bad move. They could'v done much more money on adv revenue than on this. They will not get my money or from any person i know so far. I know like its 20$ but world's economy is going to sh%t, 20$ are not expendable anymore. And there's getting too much PPV(or pay per see difference between immortal and zergling) Esport related content to pay for. As somebody who lives prom paycheck to paycheck i may not be able to afford Esport anymore soon.
I want YOU!
falafelnr1
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden444 Posts
February 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#467
One month of Premier League or 3 days of MLG. Hmm......
Kazuki
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands121 Posts
February 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#468
If only SlayerSMMA was there, I would've bought it for sure. Now I really don't know~
jambajoe
Profile Joined May 2011
27 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#469
huge mistake, way to kill growth
SMD
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada627 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#470
On February 14 2012 08:36 See.Blue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 08:36 swinkles wrote:
god this is so indicative how how this generation (especially ones well versed with internet) just refuses to pay for content, no matter how enjoyable it may be.

3 days of games for 20 bucks, wheras ppv for boxing or ufc which is just one night can be anywhere around 70-80 dollars. if we really want to show we "care" and "support" esports, how is it possible to defend that statement if as a majority arent even motivated and passionate to flip 20 bucks for a tournament which has consistently proven to be entertaining and fun experience?

it could be that everyone is just REALLY poor (i mean no disposable income at all, which is unlikely) or no job, but it sounds more like just whining and complaining that not everything is free. we've been spoiled with all the high quality content that starcraft 2 has provided, i think its disappointing we cant shell out a few bucks for a cause that has brought us much joy over the past years.


Oh my god thank you.



Very valid point, I would probably pay for it, except ill be working friday night/saturday, so 20% for sunday isn't worth it to me,

If they introduced a fee of like 10$ or something for a day, they could get a lot of viewers to buy sunday to see the final matches play out.
EagleShade
Profile Joined September 2011
United States42 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#471
Out of intrest, how much does PPV cost for the viewers of boxing/MMA or whatever else?


Typically in the $50 ish range depending on HD or not. That is for ONE event of about 3 hours with about 6 matches on it.

I get why they are doing it. It makes since. The problem with this is when comparing this 3 day event with a 3 hour event is the idea of "being able to invite people over and pitch in for the cost." You can't do that for a 3 day event the way you can for a 3 hour event. "Hey, you guys wanna come over and watch MLG with me for 3 days? If we all pitch in, it'll be like $5 per person." ... I don't think so.
Yeah, I'm 30+, have a wife, kids, play SCII and watch eSports... So?!
Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#472
On February 14 2012 08:33 Yamulo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 08:25 See.Blue wrote:
On February 14 2012 08:23 TheDougler wrote:
On February 14 2012 07:51 Asha` wrote:
Assembly it is =)



I love you Asha' and understand your stance...

But with that said, Fuck you. If Sundance hasn't proven that he has a vision for e-sports yet, that he listens to the fans with their every complaint --well... aside from Extended series-- then I could appreciate this reaction.

But... Sundance has proven that he cares. And he has said before that if e-sports is to be successful as a business it can't keep leaking money with advertisements being the only stopper.

Personally I'm fine with this. I would NOT have been fine with this if this was a year ago. Dallas was a terrible, TERRIBLE thing. But with the quality that MLG (and other tournaments) provide, I am more than willing to pay for it. 2011 was a test run for SC2 as a serious international e-sport and it widely surpassed pretty much everyone's expectations. It's time to pay the piper now and I'm sorry to those that don't understand that. I'll be enjoying watching this fantastic event without you guys I guess.


This sums up my thoughts well. The sense of entitlement is huge. I've honestly thought GSL undervalued their goods in my opinion. This is closer to pushing what I'd be willing to pay, but I'm certainly willing to give them a chance on it.

Not everyone can pay 20$ for one weekend... I don't know how you can be mad at people feeling entitled either when plently of other tourneys still offer lq streams. Also, I don't understand why you should really show loyalty to a tournament, you should watch what is best for you, so if people get mad that MLG decided to charge for ppv then they should go watch the other FREE tourney...


This is Econ 101 stuff. People can choose to watch MLG for $20. Or they can choose to watch Assembly, or Asus ROG for free.

Which ever benefits people the most is the route they choose.
Everyone seeks they own self interest. Viewers do, as well as the business's like MLG, Assembly, and ASUS ROG.
You cannot get mad at someone for doing whats in their own best interest.

I don't understand where this entitlement thing is coming from either. I would step back and separate the logic from emotion's before flaming.

Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
Kelsier.
Profile Joined August 2011
United States103 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#473
I am just sorry that my gold membership doesn't cover this. I am happy to support e-sports by paying actual money for the fantastic quality of product they produce, but I feel a bit cheated when I thought I had already purchased an all included pass. I'll likely buy this if I think that I will have time that weekend to devote to watching starcraft, but I can't say that I support this move.
Gator
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States3432 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#474
it cost what like $5 for a silver membership that gave you HD streams and quad view for like 3 events? and now 20 for just 3 days...
TSM
Fojji
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom217 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#475
lol, what a joke

Assembly time
Scootaloo
Profile Joined January 2012
655 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-13 23:48:51
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#476
Fuck you Sundance =D

- mod edit -

User was temp banned for this post.
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#477
On February 14 2012 08:39 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 08:22 shinyA wrote:
On February 14 2012 08:06 Xxio wrote:
lol you people saying $20 dollars is too much. It's such a good deal - just how poor are you?
you've all been spoiled by free, unsustainable, low standard content, says I

That's not the point.

For MLG to charge $20 for 2 days for an event, you have to weigh that price against other things that we have. You don't just ignore the competitive prices of other events when you go to pay for something. You don't go to the grocery store and buy something for more money when you can get something the same or better for less.

GSL charges less and has higher production and still offers a free alternative. Assembly will have free HD streams going on at the same time as this MLG event. We've had previous MLG, Dreamhack, GSL, etc all for free and to be honest it's been MLG that's been more known for 'technical difficulties and crappy formats' than any of the others yet they are the ones going first for the PPV model?

My first thought was comparing MLG to GSL. GSL you get a few months of content for $5 less and GSL has a higher prize pool, why is it then that GSL gives more money to the players and charges less? MLG is doing something wrong, I know they are paying travel and what not but they also seem to have more sponsors than GSL and they run ads, which GSL doesn't.

All in all, I feel like they are being extremely greedy and if someone can't/doesn't want to pay $20 for MLG you shouldn't call THEM greedy or poor because it's MLG who's begging for money.



The problem with your argument is the lack of sustainability of western professional SC2. The argument we should "weigh that price against other things that we have" would inevitably lead to there never being PPV tournaments, since as you say we've had and continue to have some free HD tournaments. The fact that you point to Assembly's free HD as a standard by which we should compare the MLG PPV is telling. Moreover the comparison to GSL is unfair because GSL has access to a domestic audience where Starcraft is already popular. Thus GSL has a foundation to work from that western tournaments do not. So it's reasonable for western tournaments to charge more than GSL does.

If we believe what Sundance is telling us (and I don't think he would lie to the community), then there needs to be some cash infusion from the community if MLG (and probably other western tournaments) is to continue existing at its current quality level. Now, if you don't think you have $20 to spare, that's certainly your prerogative. But to say that the price of western SC2 PPV should always correspond to its market value when compared to Korean (read: GSL) tournaments is to say that you're fine with western pro SC2 dying out sooner than later.

For the sake of esports, I and I believe many others will be paying for this. And while I know a plea for civility is probably futile on an internet forum, you shouldn't use exaggerated language such as "greedy" if you want this thread to be a productive discussion.


See, you say for the sake of ESPORTS you'll pay for it.

But frankly for the "Sake of esports", you should tell MLG to find a different model than trying to force PPV to work. Because it won't in the long run.
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-13 23:42:02
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#478
$20 for MLG content for an arena of fuckin' awesome players. That sounds good.
Will I spend the money? Hard to say right now, time-zone from Aus is screwy, dunno what else I need to get done that weekend.
If I can't watch it live due to time-zone, then I'll probably just watch the vods a week later.

The most persuasive thing to about paying the $20 is to support MLG who gave me so much good stuff last year for free, this is a good chance for me to say thank you.
MLG, you're fucking awesome. Thanks for the SC2 goodness.


On February 14 2012 08:40 Scootaloo wrote:
Fuck you Sundance =D

Hey, them pulling this dumb ass shit will at least prompt the pirating community to start ripping MLG. I know I'll be checking my torrent trackers.


It's FREE a WEEK LATER you dumb shit.
Khenra
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands885 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#479
I immensely enjoyed last year's MLG events. Especially the crowd made the events so great: I could feel the great atmosphere in my seat at home.

However, it seems like there will not be a live crowd at this event? Or will there? I'm looking at their website for details, but I can find almost no information whatsoever on the actual event. What venue, what casters, will there be a crowd?

Unfortunately, I will not be able to watch the tournament live, as I am busy that weekend. I will therefore not purchase a ticket.
This signature is ruining eSports.
Klonere
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Ireland4123 Posts
February 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#480
On February 14 2012 08:38 Pholon wrote:
70$ for a full year of GSL (highest quality games, every single day) vs this. Won't be paying. People who say PPV is the only way to grow esports seem highly uncreative. BW did fine for 10 years running non-profit. Hmmm... meh.


Isn't BW partially subsidized by the Korean government?
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