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Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. |
On January 18 2012 20:26 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 20:24 JustPassingBy wrote:
I would like to know in what way aLive "breached" his contract with TSL. If a player is under contract he can only leave because of following: 1) contract expires 2) someone buys him out of the contract 3) management decides to release him. None of these 3 happened, but he still left the team. thereby he breached his contact.
And you know this how? You know they didnt have any clauses or something that made it so he can leave?
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On January 18 2012 20:28 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 20:26 Eee wrote:On January 18 2012 20:24 JustPassingBy wrote:
I would like to know in what way aLive "breached" his contract with TSL. If a player is under contract he can only leave because of following: 1) contract expires 2) someone buys him out of the contract 3) management decides to release him. None of these 3 happened, but he still left the team. thereby he breached his contact. And you know this how? You know they didnt have any clauses or something that made it so he can leave?
That's what most esport contracts are based, If the contract allowed him to end the contract at any moment why in the hell would coach lee trying sue him? and why in the hell was contract needed at all then?
TSL got contracts just for this very reason. -.-
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It is apparent by now that Coach Lee doesn't know how to deal with these situations. These dramas, which he will never win in a legal court (hello?), are just ruining his team's reputation.
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On January 18 2012 20:33 dubRa wrote:
It is apparent by now that Coach Lee doesn't know how to deal with these situations. These dramas, which he will never win in a legal court (hello?), are just ruining his team's reputation.
Actually the courts in korea take matters like this really seriously.
for example: I belive some years ago there was this kid who was bashing Flash on the forums, and that kid got sued pretty badly if I remember correctly.
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Wait wait wait. After thinking about it, and trying to remember specific statements...
Someone mentioned that Coach Lee may have kicked aLive out of the team house over all of this. (It may have been in the first read of the original post, but that's been since edited. Or it may have been something that VirgilSC mentioned. If that is part of the sequence of events I mentioned as theoretically possible in my previous post in this thread, and aLive has not signed with Fnatic, Coach Lee may find himself in a bind with regards to contract issues. The sequence of events is important, since there's been no actual breach of the contract that we know of between TSL and aLive other than aLive's leaving TSL. (Again, there could be clauses in a contract that prohibit even talking to other team's members. If there isn't now, Lee might become paranoid enough to add them in the future.)
On the flip side, Coach Lee is opening himself up a lot if his read on the situation is wrong. At the moment, there just aren't enough facts other than that Coach Lee says that Fnatic tried to poach aLive, and Fnatic says they aren't interested. Their translator might have talked to aLive, but they are also friends outside of the strict business relationship so who knows exactly what they said, or what Coach Lee thinks was said. If I were Lee, I would be very much upset and might act without thinking exactly rationally about it.
My take away from this so far (as there are damn few hard facts to be had, and the most important person has yet to make any statement (aLive)) is that when there is a lack of any strong custom or tradition (or rules set in place by an organization - Gom, Kespa, MLG, some trade group of eSports guidelines and bylaws) each individual contract and each individual event will be drama.
There's more that needs discussion, in a general sense, about how this could be handled in the future, but I don't think this is the thread for it.
aLive, for goodness sake, play your matches, go home, get something to eat, and then make an official statement. And I recommend you talk to a lawyer first. If we (as eSports fans) want a "professional" atmosphere in these regards, then we are going to have to accept a more legality-oriented environment - and accept that players are professionals. (That said, I wish it could all be as fun, informal, and laid back as HSC. And wouldn't that atmosphere make some of the professionals run into problems with certain labor laws? I mean, some of the "pros" are under the age of legal consent in some countries...)
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On January 18 2012 20:34 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 20:33 dubRa wrote:
It is apparent by now that Coach Lee doesn't know how to deal with these situations. These dramas, which he will never win in a legal court (hello?), are just ruining his team's reputation. Actually the courts in korea take matters like this really seriously. for example: I belive some years ago there was this kid who was bashing Flash on the forums, and that kid got sued pretty badly if I remember correctly.
That's scary.
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On January 18 2012 20:36 felisconcolori wrote:
Wait wait wait. After thinking about it, and trying to remember specific statements...
Someone mentioned that Coach Lee may have kicked aLive out of the team house over all of this. (It may have been in the first read of the original post, but that's been since edited. Or it may have been something that VirgilSC mentioned. If that is part of the sequence of events I mentioned as theoretically possible in my previous post in this thread, and aLive has not signed with Fnatic, Coach Lee may find himself in a bind with regards to contract issues. The sequence of events is important, since there's been no actual breach of the contract that we know of between TSL and aLive other than aLive's leaving TSL. (Again, there could be clauses in a contract that prohibit even talking to other team's members. If there isn't now, Lee might become paranoid enough to add them in the future.)
On the flip side, Coach Lee is opening himself up a lot if his read on the situation is wrong. At the moment, there just aren't enough facts other than that Coach Lee says that Fnatic tried to poach aLive, and Fnatic says they aren't interested. Their translator might have talked to aLive, but they are also friends outside of the strict business relationship so who knows exactly what they said, or what Coach Lee thinks was said. If I were Lee, I would be very much upset and might act without thinking exactly rationally about it.
My take away from this so far (as there are damn few hard facts to be had, and the most important person has yet to make any statement (aLive)) is that when there is a lack of any strong custom or tradition (or rules set in place by an organization - Gom, Kespa, MLG, some trade group of eSports guidelines and bylaws) each individual contract and each individual event will be drama.
There's more that needs discussion, in a general sense, about how this could be handled in the future, but I don't think this is the thread for it.
aLive, for goodness sake, play your matches, go home, get something to eat, and then make an official statement. And I recommend you talk to a lawyer first. If we (as eSports fans) want a "professional" atmosphere in these regards, then we are going to have to accept a more legality-oriented environment - and accept that players are professionals. (That said, I wish it could all be as fun, informal, and laid back as HSC. And wouldn't that atmosphere make some of the professionals run into problems with certain labor laws? I mean, some of the "pros" are under the age of legal consent in some countries...)
In the moon announcent thread Virgil said that he left (not kicked out) together with ToD and Rain.
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On January 18 2012 20:34 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 20:33 dubRa wrote:
It is apparent by now that Coach Lee doesn't know how to deal with these situations. These dramas, which he will never win in a legal court (hello?), are just ruining his team's reputation. Actually the courts in korea take matters like this really seriously. for example: I belive some years ago there was this kid who was bashing Flash on the forums, and that kid got sued pretty badly if I remember correctly.
I'm pretty sure he didn't get sued. KT wanted to do something like that, but Flash said to let it go, and the kid apologized after that as well.
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On January 18 2012 20:39 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 20:34 Eee wrote:On January 18 2012 20:33 dubRa wrote:
It is apparent by now that Coach Lee doesn't know how to deal with these situations. These dramas, which he will never win in a legal court (hello?), are just ruining his team's reputation. Actually the courts in korea take matters like this really seriously. for example: I belive some years ago there was this kid who was bashing Flash on the forums, and that kid got sued pretty badly if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure he didn't get sued. KT wanted to do something like that, but Flash said to let it go, and the kid apologized after that as well.
Oh ok, but as far as I'm aware they still take matters like this pretty seriously?
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On January 18 2012 20:39 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 20:34 Eee wrote:On January 18 2012 20:33 dubRa wrote:
It is apparent by now that Coach Lee doesn't know how to deal with these situations. These dramas, which he will never win in a legal court (hello?), are just ruining his team's reputation. Actually the courts in korea take matters like this really seriously. for example: I belive some years ago there was this kid who was bashing Flash on the forums, and that kid got sued pretty badly if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure he didn't get sued. KT wanted to do something like that, but Flash said to let it go, and the kid apologized after that as well.
But, Flash is god, so not that weird.
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SIGH...poor TSL  i hope for a rapid and good conclusion to all this.
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On January 18 2012 20:40 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 20:39 Talin wrote:On January 18 2012 20:34 Eee wrote:On January 18 2012 20:33 dubRa wrote:
It is apparent by now that Coach Lee doesn't know how to deal with these situations. These dramas, which he will never win in a legal court (hello?), are just ruining his team's reputation. Actually the courts in korea take matters like this really seriously. for example: I belive some years ago there was this kid who was bashing Flash on the forums, and that kid got sued pretty badly if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure he didn't get sued. KT wanted to do something like that, but Flash said to let it go, and the kid apologized after that as well. Oh ok, but as far as I'm aware they still take matters like this pretty seriously?
I think so, I've seen several cases where it had been implied that you can sue someone for internet harassment in Korea. Jessica wanted to do something like that after the Eve situation for example. I don't know how far these laws go or what they actually are though.
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On January 18 2012 20:39 Eee wrote:
In the moon announcent thread Virgil said that he left (not kicked out) together with ToD and Rain.
Ahh. I'm wondering why I've got the idea Coach Lee kicked him out of the house then.
Still, other points to consider in there. And the first post I made in this particular thread still seems like a solid one.
Again... we need aLive to release at least some statement. If he's smart, considering he may be getting sued, it will be one that includes "... in consultation with my legal counsel..." but still lays out the bare bones of what happened and why from his point of view.
It's all still going to be a he-said, she-said, they-said affair until (and if) we ever see hard facts in courts. Even then, civil claims and contract law are a bit different and still might leave us all theorycrafting gossip and rumors for months.
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To me it's always TSL SAYING that something happens to them, and the other side of the story comes out, and it makes them look really really bad. This has GOT to have something to do with their management.
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So if im not reading the article wrong it appears tsl is freakin out fo nothin and fnatic didnt sign alive? Drama queen tsl manager?
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I think Mr. Lee needs to take some Western Business classes..... He's obviously missing something. I'm not saying he's wrong, but this has happened way too many times to simply be him just being a victim.
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On January 18 2012 20:49 Bippzy wrote:
So if im not reading the article wrong it appears tsl is freakin out fo nothin and fnatic didnt sign alive? Drama queen tsl manager?
No, you're reading it wrong. Instead of trying to start drama, try to actually understand what happened.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On January 18 2012 20:33 0ne wrote:
No one leaves here alive LOL.
Man... TSL seems to be able to train very 'Solid' players. Fairly bot-type players who execute things quite well. Though aLive has lost against a lot of lesser opponents (i.e. darkforce at NASL - darkforce is no slouch, but he ain't Korean).
Poor Coach Lee - now just gotta wait for Hyun to rip some nerds
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On January 18 2012 20:33 0ne wrote:
No one leaves here alive
That made me lol!
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EPT
