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United States238 Posts
Source: ThisIsGame
A lot of changes are coming to GSL tour in general in 2012.
First, as you may already know, main GSL Code S RO 32 - RO 16 will no longer end with BO 1 dual tournament, but instead, BO 3 dual tournament. Due to the increased number of games played, only one group will play per day. The result is that GSL season will last 8 weeks total.
Code S group nomination procedure also changed; In 2012, the group nomination will take place right before the start of RO 16. RO 32 will have 8 seeders placed in the groups, then rest of the players will be selected by RNG. After the end of RO 32, there will be group nomination procedure before RO 16 starts.
Tournament procedure RO 8 and above remains the same; RO 8 and semi-finals have BO 5, and finals BO 7. The up and downs match will remain the same, and Code A / code upgrade matches will remain the same.
With increase in the length of each season, 2012 will see total of 5 GSL seasons.
Second (and probably a very disappointing news for many of the readers), World Championship and Super Tournament will no longer take place in 2012.
Third, there's a small change to GSL prize money. Code S prize money has not changed. But Code A prize money has increased by roughly 2 times the previous amount. As a result of this, Code A prize money will now differ based on the player prowess. In this case, if players in Code S falls down to Code A, they will receive Code S prize money only, and will not receive additional money from Code A. For example, a Code S player who got eliminated at Code S RO 32, then managed to go far in Code A, he or she will only receive 1,500,000 won total.
Code A prize money will be as follows:
RO 48: 400,000 won
RO 32: 600,000 won
RO 24: 800,000 won
RO 12: 1,000,000 won
2012 GSL Season 1 -- the start of 2012 GSL tour -- will start in January 9th.
Fourth, GSTL has changed to double-elimination, 3 round system in 2012. The reason behind double elimination is to remedy the problem relating to best players from each team being unable to play due to the full league method. It also has been modified to allow more teams / foreign teams to participate, instead of the existing teams only.
Quick description of how this works: Assuming there are 10 teams active, the two seeded teams will go straight to the second round. Those that didn't get seeded will participate in the first round, and winning two teams will move to the second round. The losing teams will go through loser's bracket and the winner of that will move onto the second round. For the first 2012 GSTL season, the 2011 GSTL Season 1 winner MvP and the runner-up Prime will receive the seeds.
The second round will have two groups, and will proceed as a dual tournament. Four teams (the seeded team, two 1st round winners, and 1 winning team from loser's bracket) will duke it out, and the group's 1st and 2nd place winners will move onto the semi-finals.
The semi-finals will proceed as a cross tournament -- Group A 1st place will battle Group B 2nd place, and Group B 1st place will battle Group A 2nd place.
Two winning teams from that will move onto the finals.
GSTL will take place in Friday / Saturday every week, and first 2012 GSTL will start in January 27th.
Also, GSTL prize money has increased:
Winner: 30,000,000 won
Runner-up: 15,000,000 won
Semi-finalists: 4,000,000 won
RO 8: 2,000,000 won
RO 10: 1,000,000 won
Edit: Some clarification with the prize money.
Translated by yours truly.
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nice to hear about the prize increase for code A. Tough tournament and little reward money wise 
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Group selection change is pretty cool actually.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
Why can't GSTL be more like PL.... Otherwise it's all good.
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How does the full league method stop the best players from playing? Just because elimination isn't at stake every match? I think that's kind of a silly reason. I liked seeing the unknown players, and it isn't like the unknowns haven't been ending up as the most valuable players.
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"It also has been modified to allow more teams / foreign teams to participate, instead of the existing teams only."
i'm interested in this part the most. will we be seeing quantic or EG in GSTL mayhaps?
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On December 10 2011 15:02 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Why can't GSTL be more like PL.... Otherwise it's all good.
I feel the same way, why not use the same format PL used last year?
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finally info about gstl, i was getting worried it was cancelled :x I also like the 2 month period per GSL because it allows those who practice well to be even more rewarded. glad to see that. it will create more hype coming up to the finals
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On December 10 2011 15:07 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:02 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Why can't GSTL be more like PL.... Otherwise it's all good. I feel the same way, why not use the same format PL used last year?
Yeah I really hope GSTL maybe does what proleague did last year a season of winners league, then a season of normal style like 4 1v1's and ace 1v1 if it ties 2-2. That imo is the best method and really am hoping GSL does this eventually!
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United States7481 Posts
I really like the changes to the normal tournament, but I don't like the GSTL change.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
only 5 GSL's in 2012 and no WC or super tournament :/
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How many formats did GSL went through so far?
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These changes go very well with the year-long GSL ticket.
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More time between games = more time for players to prepare. Hoping this shows us better games and better competition overall.
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Aww no more World Tournament. I didn't mind super tournament going away but World Championship was fun.
Also, guys's, don't be FOOLED by Code A prize pool increasing x2. It does take twice as long now. I'm surprised GSL Code S didn't increase x2 as well. Now we got half the number of tournaments but also half the prize money? I hope Blizzard Cup makes a return next year at least.
Korean players will now really need to travel abroad for more chances at prize money.
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I really hope they change the GSTL to not be winners league only
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The GSL changes are a step to the right direction.
- Theoretically, bo3 should avoid the old habit of better players eliminated early that plagued GSL in 2011.
- Group selection introduced an element of sniping against top players in 2011, so using an RNG instead was a good choice.
- Losing ST and WC are a big blow. These tournaments are a fun diversion and have their own flairs, from what I can tell, only BlizzCup, GSL, and GSTL are left.
- The longer season is a nice change. After the mid-year changes, GSLs come and go so often that winning one has become meaningless. Winning GSL is suppose to mean you're the best player, but that doesn't happen when your successor comes in five weeks.
I was not able to visualize the GSTL changes. It seems overly complex for a tournament of a comparatively small field (dozen of team instead of 128 in GSL).
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On December 10 2011 15:17 Onox wrote:
I really hope they change the GSTL to not be winners league only
I agree, proleague format please!
I like the individual league changes a lot though.
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hope we get to see more foreigners / foreigner teams this year in GSTL
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Yeah, if GSL prize money isn't x2 across the board isn't this gom paying 1/2 the prize money?
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
I like having fewer, but lengthier GSLs and like the increase in Code A prize pool. I am not sure why they didn't at least slightly increase the Code S prize pool, too. (Perhaps GSTL will see an increase in prize pool?)
Nevertheless, with only 5 possible champions (6 if they have a Blizzard Cup) it'll be more prestigious than how 2011 had 7 GSLs (plus a World Championship, Super Tournament, and Blizzard Cup). It'll be more like BW that used to have 3 OSLs and 3 MSLs a year.
I do not care for the missing Super Tournament, will miss the novelty of a World Championship, and dislike not moving GSTL to be more like Proleague.
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Really big fan of the of the first set of changes, GSL November actually lasted like 2 months with up and downs still waiting to be played just do to the timings of WCG and other big tournaments, and I like the spaced out feeling better, which will also give time to watch all the extra games from BO5s. And at Onox, I really hope they keep winner's league in GSTL, I think it is more entertaining and provides teams better chances to snipe a completely dominant player, though I can see how you could argue it just keeps certain teams around being carried by one player for a long time...
Edit: Im also super excited that the GSTL format change will "allow more teams/foreign teams to participate"
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Less GSLs is generally good, there was oversaturation before.
Moving GSTL away from Proleague is kinda bad though, because Proleague is totally badass and awesome. Plus it probably means no fantasy game, if there's no regular season. No reason to visit TL if I can't play fantasy StarCraft! :p
World Championship was a lot of fun, but it might be tough to schedule or something? I don't know. Still, it's unfortunate.
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oh no not winnerleague again  For once the GSTL changes disappoint me
btw no announcement about new maps ? In the occassion of an all new GSL, they should introduce at least 3 new maps imo
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Next year is gonna be awesome. Looking forward to the top 16 nomination.
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I really like the changes. Only concern is, with code S prize money not changing and seasons being twice as long are they essentially giving code S half the money now?
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36961 Posts
Interested to see how these changes will work out. Thank you for the thread!
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The big Korea vs. the World event was one of my favorite GSL events ever, I'll be sad to see it go =(
Super Tournament was sick too. I really liked having code A mixed with code S, it was refreshing. We even got to see a code A player almost take the whole thing.
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Shouldn't the prize money for code S double because the season is twice as long?
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On December 10 2011 15:17 RaiKageRyu wrote:
Aww no more World Tournament. I didn't mind super tournament going away but World Championship was fun.
Also, guys's, don't be FOOLED by Code A prize pool increasing x2. It does take twice as long now. I'm surprised GSL Code S didn't increase x2 as well. Now we got half the number of tournaments but also half the prize money? I hope Blizzard Cup makes a return next year at least.
Korean players will now really need to travel abroad for more chances at prize money.
Yea these were my initial thoughts as well. Seems like gomtv is scaling back on the overall prize payout for 2012. This may push even more Korean pros to join foreign tournaments, foreign teams or even stop progaming all together.
However it seems that this change in prize distribution only negatively affects top korean pros (code S players).
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Okay, went through the GSTL part again (thanks for the translation Selith!):
The new GSTL has three stages, with following outline based on a league of 10 teams:
I. "Prelim" - Start with 10
- Top two teams (based on past GSTL, starting with MvP and Prime) skips this stage (2 advances)
- Teams are paired up randomly to play a single set against each other
- Winner advances to next stage (4 advances)
- Losers play against each other for advancement (2 advance, 2 eliminated)
Sets played
Seeded: 0
Winner: 1
Loser: 2
II. "Group Stage" - Start with 8
- The group stage consists of two groups
- Each group consists of one seeded team (1), two winners from Stage I (2), and one team that does not get eliminated (1)
- Played in "Dual Tournament" format, similar to the GSL group stage currently (ie: winner play winner, loser play loser, winner play loser)
- Bottom two eliminated; top 2 of each group stage advance (4 advance total)
Sets played
rank 1: 2
rank 2: 3
rank 3: 3
rank 4: 2
III. "Finals" - Start with 4
- single elimination, rank #1 plays rank #2
Sets played
Champion: 2
Runner-up: 2
3rd & 4th: 1
The translation did not go into how the stages are adjusted for more than 10 teams, but the overall structure is fairly flexible for a league of any size. The I. Prelim provides for the possibility of cutting more than two teams to leave the group stage for a rounded number (a power-of-2).
The changes made sense in context of avoiding excessive time-commitment for foreign teams. The minimum number of sets a team play is 2, which depends on scheduling is 1 or 2 weeks, much less than the 5 expected from the first GSTL. Dual tournament was probably adopted because it has the advantage over the standard round-robin by never requiring for a tie-breaker, or require messy point systems. Of course, this also means that certain desirable matchups will never be played, simply because of the way bracket unfolds.
Overall, the GSTL changes have sound reasoning. The only critic I have for it is that it may be confusing to introduce another new format (the previous one only had one run), and that multiple stages does not provide for bracket-theorycrafting (something invaluable for engaging hardcore fans).
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pretty much agree with everyone else, all awesome changes except for the GSTL. I was hoping it'd be similar to the league format last year, but I guess not. Still my favorite tournament though
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I'm fine with less GSL but longer ones!
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United States23455 Posts
I like, but I wish they kept the $100,000 Super Tournament as a yearly Super Bowl for GOM.
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why is it though there're less tournaments, the prize pool for code S stays the same? looks like GOM overestimated the amount of revenue they would make per year. (the increased length of seasons is basically equivalent to cutting the prize money by half. dunno, it seems to me like they're trying to announce a downsizing of GSL without actually announcing it)
Really disappointed with the GSTL changes as well
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Wait what? If a player falls from Code S to Code A and then wins they win the same amount as if they were to win Code S? So isn't there a chance that people purposefully drop out of Code S in the later rounds if they don't think they can win Code S so that they have a chance at more money in Code A then they would receive if they would get like RO4 or RO8? I don't know if this is probable but if it is possible then it is kind of worrying.
EDIT: left something out
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The group selections at Ro16 might help get better finals... If MC doesn't muck it all up.
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United States33201 Posts
Oh hey, their prize pool just got cut by 50%.
CARMAC, I HEAR YOUR GLOATING FROM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC
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On December 10 2011 15:21 Primadog wrote:The GSL changes are a step to the right direction. - Theoretically, bo3 should avoid the old habit of better players eliminated early that plagued GSL in 2011.
- Group selection introduced an element of sniping against top players in 2011, so using an RNG instead was a good choice.
- Losing ST and WC are a big blow. These tournaments are a fun diversion and have their own flairs, from what I can tell, only BlizzCup, GSL, and GSTL are left.
- The longer season is a nice change. After the mid-year changes, GSLs come and go so often that winning one has become meaningless. Winning GSL is suppose to mean you're the best player, but that doesn't happen when your successor comes in five weeks.
I was not able to visualize the GSTL changes. It seems overly complex for a tournament of a comparatively small field (dozen of team instead of 128 in GSL).
Agreed completely.
However, you have to understand that with the longer GSL seasons came the removal of ST and WC - I mean if you're doubling the length of the GSL essentially that time has to come from somewhere.
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I don't like how the prize for Code S stays the same, but the tournament lasts twice as long. That's basically a lowering of the moneys the pros make.
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On December 10 2011 16:09 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:21 Primadog wrote:The GSL changes are a step to the right direction. - Theoretically, bo3 should avoid the old habit of better players eliminated early that plagued GSL in 2011.
- Group selection introduced an element of sniping against top players in 2011, so using an RNG instead was a good choice.
- Losing ST and WC are a big blow. These tournaments are a fun diversion and have their own flairs, from what I can tell, only BlizzCup, GSL, and GSTL are left.
- The longer season is a nice change. After the mid-year changes, GSLs come and go so often that winning one has become meaningless. Winning GSL is suppose to mean you're the best player, but that doesn't happen when your successor comes in five weeks.
I was not able to visualize the GSTL changes. It seems overly complex for a tournament of a comparatively small field (dozen of team instead of 128 in GSL). Agreed completely. However, you have to understand that with the longer GSL seasons came the removal of ST and WC - I mean if you're doubling the length of the GSL essentially that time has to come from somewhere.
The old format has 7 GSLs for 6 weeks each, that's 42 weeks total of regular GSL. The new format has 5 GSLs for 8 weeks each, that's 40 weeks of regular GSL. Of course, this kind of comparison misses a lot of subtleness, but I can imagine scenarios where at least the World Champion can be kept in some form.
Personally, I just hate to lose moments like:
![[image loading]](http://white-ra.com/white_ra_power.gif)
that would not exist in any other format
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On December 10 2011 15:31 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:26 darkcloud8282 wrote:So they're saving money from having fewer GSLs? Yay for BO3 format I guess.. They're saving ALOT of money by doing that..but it doesn't matter to us, the players in Korea will be angry though. This will also affect short-term foreign players looking to train in Korea, because now they have to commit for a longer period of time (assuming they make it through multiple rounds) to win any money.
they are saving A LOT
2011
8 x 132 = 1,056 (GSL Code S + WC)
+ 1 x 202 = 202 (ST)
+ 7 x 12.9 = 90.3 (Code A)
----------------------------
= 1,348.3 M KRW
2012
5 x 132 = 660 (Code S)
+ 5 x 26 = 130 (Code A)
-----------------------------
= 790 M KRW
Total savings in 2012 = 558 M KRW
So yea, either there is something seriously wrong with my math or they are saving ALOT of money...
edit: Thx to Temperance, did have a major error regarding a decimal in here, in my defense it was really early :D
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i like the other changes but why cut the pricemoney?! double it ... pls
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every time i see that they changed something, I'm always excited now, since they always (or almost always) improve things ^^
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It's actually very unhealthy for a league to make drastic changes to the format like GSL. This, depends on how you count it, is the fourth or fifth iteration for the GSL, and third for the GSTL.
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More incentive for Koreans to fly to the US for MLG?
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This is so nice to see, i feel this is gonna benefit the GSL format more and GSL in general
- both the new changes to RO32, RO16 seedes etc. and prizes
Best of luck to the GSL in 2012 and GOMTV as well, I'm looking forward to watching!
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as long as there's still money in sc2, I'm happy. Money will bring great games, and great games will bring moremoney.
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On December 10 2011 16:34 naux wrote:
what does RNG stand for
random number generator
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On December 10 2011 16:35 Tachion wrote:random number generator
can you explain what that means lol
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I'm happy with the changes to the regular GSL, although the lack of an increase in prize pool is both disappointing and a little worrying. I won't miss the Super Tournament at all but it's a shame the World Championship is going away. There is no other league in the world right now that pits a Korean dream team vs a foreigner dream team against each other in a live setting. GSTL is a wait and see for me. I think MVP and Prime got too much of a bonus from being last season's finalists, but the change to double elimination is nice. Overall I'm pleased with the state of the GSL, and I can't wait for 2012.
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So they doubled the length of GSL but did not increase the prize money? Isn't that bad for aspiring players, or just players in general?
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On December 10 2011 16:36 naux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 16:35 Tachion wrote:On December 10 2011 16:34 naux wrote:
what does RNG stand for random number generator can you explain what that means lol
It means they will be randomly selected.
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Longer seasons = best change
Having a GSL tournament every month takes excitement out of the next one.
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i feel bad for the Koreans that need to make a living off of this. I see lots of Koreans quitting the game or joining foreign teams in 2012. There will be many thread of players going to Quantic, Complexity, EG, or liquid. The prize pool now for foreign tournaments outweigh the prize pool for the GSL tournaments.
IPL 50K with 100K prize pool
NASL 80-100 K prize pool
5 MLG Will have bigger prize pools next year (my guess is 50K each tournament)=250K to 500 K
Dreamhack (60 K)
IEM (50K)
HomeStory Cup (50K)
There are even more tournaments than I have named
So the Question is Why if I was a lower tier player fight like heck just scratch a living from GSL. When i have a great chance of making a serious living at foreign tournaments...
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Like:
- GSL format changes, all of them
-Longer season, sucks for the players but now the GSL will feel more important(it is important but its silly to have a new champion every month IMO)
-Removal of supertournament, regardless of name nothing felt super about it
Dislike:
-GSTL changes, old format was better. But oh well I feel maybe this change was made to cater the Foreigner teams
-World championship removal, pretty exciting event. But oh well I can live with it if more Foreign tournaments try their luck in the GSTL
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Oh wait, I didn't think of this. Maybe the regular GSL prizepool was not increased to give that money to the GSTL?
I'm fine if that is the case.
Team league>Individual league IEF
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Absolutely hate the GSTL change. :/ Could be seeing a max of 2 matches from some teams this way, and you can't work this into a fantasy league. That was so much fun last time around. The previous setup was perfect in my opinion.
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On December 10 2011 16:42 chatuka wrote:
i feel bad for the Koreans that need to make a living off of this. I see lots of Koreans quitting the game or joining foreign teams in 2012. There will be many thread of players going to Quantic, Complexity, EG, or liquid. The prize pool now for foreign tournaments outweigh the prize pool for the GSL tournaments.
IPL 50K with 100K prize pool
NASL 80-100 K prize pool
5 MLG Will have bigger prize pools next year (my guess is 50K each tournament)=250K to 500 K
Dreamhack (60 K)
IEM (50K)
HomeStory Cup (50K)
There are even more tournaments than I have named
So the Question is Why if I was a lower tier player fight like heck just scratch a living from GSL. When i have a great chance of making a serious living at foreign tournaments...
This is exactly what i believe too will happen if they don't increase the prize pool; since they are extending the GSL with less overall seasons. There will not be as much incentive now to fight the toughest players in the world in the GSL when they could make more money in foreigner tournaments like EG.Puma 4th,5th highest earner i think so far in Tournament winnings.
Good point.
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I agree with most of the changes except the lack of change of prize money and World Championship. Prize money issue is most likely because of lack of sponsors in Korea, I expect this to get better over time but it does mean more Korea Pros play in more foreigner tournaments.
World Championship was one of the best because had some of the best moments like White-Ra gif. I am optimistic if Gom can somehow work with DreamHack, MLG, IEM in a collaborative partnership to set up another World Championship where we can truly get the best players to be represented and duke it out. Make the show match between the teams to be a charity event or something.
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The GSTL changes basically make any decent fantasy GSTL format impossible. Teams will be eliminated too often, winning teams will play fewer games (sponsors will lol at this ...). While it might be more easy to maintain for different team numbers, I doubt teams will put that much effort in it with this format.
/edit:
Also, with longer GSL seasons, many mediocre players will drop out early, leaving them with possible a month of downtime and no GSTL. They will probably not be able to compete in overseas tournaments because noone will fly them there. I see a big concentration of price money and salary for only a few players and the others not being able to come by.
I don't like it.
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United States23455 Posts
First: Not surprised to see the pay get brought down. If you remember, the Blizzard Cup was supposed to be the second biggest prize pay out of the year behind the Super Tournament and then the whole structure got changed plus the prize money got halved for the winner.
Secondly: This is not 100% concrete. Things will more than likely change during the year. The 2011 format, from what I remember, was radically different than what it was presented at the beginning of the year. I can definately see a sixth tournament or more money added in if things go well for GOM with ticket sells.
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We should be cautious about condemning the Code S prize changes. We have no clue how much money is being distributed as "salary" to the upkeep of team houses. Also, this was the first year of SC2 and maybe the money base isn't quite there in korea to merit 5 100k tourneys a year. 50k Tourneys are a desireable amount.
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Everyone is saying this will make Korean players want to join international teams, but just how many new players can international teams afford? Have any of the team managers publicly said that they'll have bigger budgets for next year? Where will the players live? Will the teams pay to set up houses for the new players they pick up? If they do set up houses will the old players be forced to move in too? If there is a mass migration of Korean players to international teams then someone is going to end up short.
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On December 10 2011 17:12 BrosephBrostar wrote:
Everyone is saying this will make Korean players want to join international teams, but just how many new players can international teams afford? Have any of the team managers publicly said that they'll have bigger budgets for next year? Where will the players live? Will the teams pay to set up houses for the new players they pick up? If they do set up houses will the old players be forced to move in too? If there is a mass migration of Korean players to international teams then someone is going to end up short.
The international players. Notice how FXO is only essentially the fOu minus sC now?
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I want the world championships :.(
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On December 10 2011 17:14 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 17:12 BrosephBrostar wrote:
Everyone is saying this will make Korean players want to join international teams, but just how many new players can international teams afford? Have any of the team managers publicly said that they'll have bigger budgets for next year? Where will the players live? Will the teams pay to set up houses for the new players they pick up? If they do set up houses will the old players be forced to move in too? If there is a mass migration of Korean players to international teams then someone is going to end up short. The international players. Notice how FXO is only essentially the fOu minus sC now?
You have to wonder if that's what international teams really want though. Do you really think EG would trade Huk and Idra for Korean players, even if the Koreans were more successful?
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On December 10 2011 15:24 Arceus wrote:oh no not winnerleague again For once the GSTL changes disappoint me btw no announcement about new maps ? In the occassion of an all new GSL, they should introduce at least 3 new maps imo
This isn't an introduction of the next GSL season, this is an announcement about the new format.
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So GOM has sole broadcasting rights of SC2 in Korea unlike anywhere else in the world, which poses an important question.
Is it GOM's responsibility to bank huge prize pools for the Koreans to support them, or does that responsibility fall on the teams to find sponsors?
The former work(s)(ed) for BW, but even they are having trouble pulling sponsors in for what is supposed to be an even more popular game. With lower prize pools and lack of sponsors to give the players decent monetary support, is the scene over there going to shrink?
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GSTL change seems OTT... so complicated - around 10 teams doesnt warrant such a change - as compared to the GSL change.
Well, less tourneys means less prize money.... 2X Code A $ for a tournament three times as long.
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There are obviously pros and cons to these changes, but I think it's mostly pros. I'm so excited for there to only be 5 champions in the year. Those winners will truly be the best of the best and it will quite the event to watch! I really can't wait for 2012. With all the changes in the tournaments it should be such an exciting year for esports
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Well thank you for the clearification.
It's good there will be more money for code A players, and i don't mind paying slightly more because i know it's good production with the best games.
GSTL however is another story.
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On December 10 2011 17:22 BrosephBrostar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 17:14 Primadog wrote:On December 10 2011 17:12 BrosephBrostar wrote:
Everyone is saying this will make Korean players want to join international teams, but just how many new players can international teams afford? Have any of the team managers publicly said that they'll have bigger budgets for next year? Where will the players live? Will the teams pay to set up houses for the new players they pick up? If they do set up houses will the old players be forced to move in too? If there is a mass migration of Korean players to international teams then someone is going to end up short. The international players. Notice how FXO is only essentially the fOu minus sC now? You have to wonder if that's what international teams really want though. Do you really think EG would trade Huk and Idra for Korean players, even if the Koreans were more successful?
It's about the right players. No one is goign to give a damn about Virus or Asd joining a team but MC, Nada, Alicia could all do well on a foreign team. Hell remember how much support RAIN got.
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Haven't read and processed everything yet, so just going to say one thing first - very happy about the prizemoney distribution - I think the winner of Code S already makes enough and we don't need to give them more. However, more money for Code A is a very good thing.
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On December 10 2011 17:34 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 17:22 BrosephBrostar wrote:On December 10 2011 17:14 Primadog wrote:On December 10 2011 17:12 BrosephBrostar wrote:
Everyone is saying this will make Korean players want to join international teams, but just how many new players can international teams afford? Have any of the team managers publicly said that they'll have bigger budgets for next year? Where will the players live? Will the teams pay to set up houses for the new players they pick up? If they do set up houses will the old players be forced to move in too? If there is a mass migration of Korean players to international teams then someone is going to end up short. The international players. Notice how FXO is only essentially the fOu minus sC now? You have to wonder if that's what international teams really want though. Do you really think EG would trade Huk and Idra for Korean players, even if the Koreans were more successful? It's about the right players. No one is goign to give a damn about Virus or Asd joining a team but MC, Nada, Alicia could all do well on a foreign team. Hell remember how much support RAIN got.
The problem with so much celebrity focus is that it doesn't account for the fact that players like Asd are a large part of why ones like Leenock are so good. You can't just cut out the B teamers and practice partners and expect the highest level of play to stay the same.
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Just read about the GSTL - I don't like the changes - this is because I think the GSTL is like a "proving grounds" for newer players who are currently not in the individual leagues - something that they can practice towards and play televised matches. Was hoping for something like the S1 GSTL.
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Why doesn't GSTL have ace matches? Too many good players get upset to cheesy BO1 snipes and the team goes to lose. In PL, reverse all-kills happen often (cough cough Flash) because of ace matches.
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I hope we can see a Foreigner Team, 100% foreigners proud.
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Nice, never liked WC/Super tournaments as concepts anyway.
What still needs change though is the order they play out things. In my opinion, code A and up&downs should resolve before they start the final Ro8, so the finals actually feel like they have been worked to for 2 months, instead of being played in the middle of the season when half the games still will be played.
It would even be better to extend the season to 3 months allowing for maybe Bo5s earller and giving everything a more epic feel.
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Ohhh Now I'm excited about GSTL. More teams = more awesome! =D
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I think it's not realistic to expect from GomTV to continue spending a lot of money on SC2, especially as very few know ig they are turning a profit right now or not. What needs to happen is for scene to evolve and for there to be a lot more smaller tournaments like KSL that give smaller rewards, so that the SC2 scene doesn't entirely depend on GomTV. Hopefully KeSPA starts a league of their own and start giving money also.
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On December 10 2011 16:06 motumbo wrote:
Wait what? If a player falls from Code S to Code A and then wins they win the same amount as if they were to win Code S? So isn't there a chance that people purposefully drop out of Code S in the later rounds if they don't think they can win Code S so that they have a chance at more money in Code A then they would receive if they would get like RO4 or RO8? I don't know if this is probable but if it is possible then it is kind of worrying.
EDIT: left something out
This is the first thing I thought when I read that part.
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On December 10 2011 16:06 motumbo wrote:
Wait what? If a player falls from Code S to Code A and then wins they win the same amount as if they were to win Code S? So isn't there a chance that people purposefully drop out of Code S in the later rounds if they don't think they can win Code S so that they have a chance at more money in Code A then they would receive if they would get like RO4 or RO8? I don't know if this is probable but if it is possible then it is kind of worrying.
EDIT: left something out
Have you seen the people that have been in Code A matches lately? Falling down intentionally would be too risky. Players want a [b]stable[/b income and Code A is a "buffer" in case sh*t happens.
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I like all the new changes for the GSL. However the GSTL! Not so much 
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GSL changes look good so far, no WC or Super Tournament is pretty sad though.
Also GSTL looks bad aside from the possibility of foreigner teams.
One question that formed in my head while reading this though:
+ Show Spoiler +since GOMTV works so close with Blizzard, are we really only gona see HOTS next year? Or will they simply do a GSL in the same format, without a break, for HOTS right when it comes out?
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Please bring back the World Championship. The Super Tournament I can deal with but the World Championship was very enjoyable.
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I'm not sure I am understanding this correctly...
The changes to the GSTL: In the Semi-Finals, a team with no losses (A1) plays a team with one loss (B2), and if A1 loses, they are out, even though it's their first loss?
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this is a good step in the right direction for gom. we needed the tournament scene to become more systematic instead of new announcements or concepts every other weekend.
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I hope they have like exhibition tournaments with non koreans. Or a league that has only non koreans in it.
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Very nice changes, I even approve of no super tournament and no world championship. Their value was kinda deflated, sure it was kinda entertaining but neither tournament seemed prestigous to me.
With just 5 GSL's a year with no Bo1 knockout it becomes much more prestigous and an increased amount of foreigners in korea and koreans travelling around the world I dont see the need for the world championship. We see korea vs world every month and if the scene need a true korea vs world battle I am sure someone will put it out there.
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Looks very interesting, especially GSTL change .. can't wait to see how it plays out next year
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On December 10 2011 17:50 ACrow wrote:
Nice, never liked WC/Super tournaments as concepts anyway.
What still needs change though is the order they play out things. In my opinion, code A and up&downs should resolve before they start the final Ro8, so the finals actually feel like they have been worked to for 2 months, instead of being played in the middle of the season when half the games still will be played.
It would even be better to extend the season to 3 months allowing for maybe Bo5s earller and giving everything a more epic feel.
What i'd like is if they just scrapped the whole 'code A' concept and just rename and remarket them as qualifiers for the next season. Instead of it going on at the same time as code S as it happens currently, i'd prefer it if the whole thing began after the code s finals have ended. They could keep the exact same format for code A but it just seems much more logical to me to have the qualifiers for your tournament happen before the event instead of mixed into the finals of your previous season. If they were to change the format to this aswell I think it'd be a lot more exciting and bring in a lot more pre-season hype.
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No World Championship
(One of my best sc2 viewing experiences 2011)
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On December 10 2011 14:58 Selith wrote:
Second (and probably a very disappointing news for many of the readers), World Championship and Super Tournament will no longer take place in 2012.
Why would you think that? To this date I refuse to count the WC as a GSL, and the Super Tournament was silly as well. I'm fine with that!
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On December 10 2011 18:59 chocopaw wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 14:58 Selith wrote:
Second (and probably a very disappointing news for many of the readers), World Championship and Super Tournament will no longer take place in 2012. Why would you think that? To this date I refuse to count the WC as a GSL, and the Super Tournament was silly as well. I'm fine with that!
...They would think that because we all love seeing foreigners in Korea and the Korea vs The World event was one of the greatest SC2 events of 2011?
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Ah, no World Championship is kinda sad! :/ But I'm so pumped for GSTL!! Looks neat! Hopefully foreign teams get the chance to come and play a season in the GSTL!
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Only having 5 GSLs per year & getting rid of Super/WC is going to save them a butt load of money. I really hope they use that to improve their services (especially the free stream).
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I thought the GSTL was fine the way it was. I liked how teams got to play all of the other teams. It was nice seeing oGs get to play five times.
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5 GSL's per year is the perfect thing that could have happened. It brings the tournament much needed prestige boost. 10+ GSL's per year or how many there were going to be, is just too much and winning the GSL gold didn't feel so special. Now GSL will be more on the lines of OSL and MSL. Good job.
I also wish GSTL would just grow into something similar to PL.
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I won't miss World Champ or Super Tournament. Actually World Champ was good fun, and it was probably the most effective way to get heaps of foreigners into GSL for a weekend. Super Tournament i had no love for at all (and willingly pretend it never happened) so i definitely won't miss that at all.
I do wish GSTL would return to its original carnival 2-3 day feel (with all kills etc, exactly like it was originally), and then put in a team league like what BW has to run alongside GSL season.
edit: and if they did bring in the old carnival GSTL, then it could also be possible to get foreign teams over there, given they'd only need a few days of time investment. Although that would still be super expensive, so they probably wouldn't come anyway.
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World Championship was cool and i'll miss it. Less GSL seasons but more games per season (and thus it'll mean more to become a champion) is fine, but i wonder how the players think about it. Probably a lot of them will reconsider being pro now that they get less chances to climb up and also that the prizemoney comes less frequently and still at the same value.
More GSTL and higher prizemoney for it is cool, although i don't really agree with double elimination here. A system like for the PL in BW would indeed be optimal IMO.
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Some nice changes but why do Koreans always make their tournament systems so complicated?
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I can't say I am much of a fan of the GSTL format but the GSL format looks really cool, and I'm glad that the winners of code A finally get decent prize money. I also want more GSTL's to be run throughout the year, I love the GSTL camaraderie!
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On December 10 2011 15:13 illsick wrote:
only 5 GSL's in 2012 and no WC or super tournament :/
And the prize pool is the same..n When I saw the mlg prov numbers and their promise of a larger prize pool I was like GSL has to step it up or the.best koreans will just go to the large prize pool foreigner events, I guess not tho.
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Nice changes, but i'd love to see GSTL like PL :/
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On December 10 2011 19:32 HolydaKing wrote:
World Championship was cool and i'll miss it. Less GSL seasons but more games per season (and thus it'll mean more to become a champion) is fine, but i wonder how the players think about it. Probably a lot of them will reconsider being pro now that they get less chances to climb up and also that the prizemoney comes less frequently and still at the same value.
More GSTL and higher prizemoney for it is cool, although i don't really agree with double elimination here. A system like for the PL in BW would indeed be optimal IMO.
It's fine they've got mlg and I'm expecting a lot from them I bet sundance will be giggling once he hears about this.
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I do not like the GSTL change at all, because . . .
. . . some teams will get eliminated really fast.
. . . foreign teams wont participate in GSTL. The risk is to high to get out of the tourney after a small number of matches.
. . . no team wants to get eliminated early, so they only use established players to take no risks.
. . . it would be a great opportunity for unknown players to show their skill and if their team only plays a couple of matches their wont get a chance.
. . . the teams that advance to the finals will get a huge advantage. They will be broadcasted way more than the other teams and over the next season there is a chance to have a few "big" teams that always advance "small" teams that get roflstomped. Then there would be less competition.
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What about stream quality? Their currect HQ stream is good but I feel both SQ and HQ could be improved.
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On December 10 2011 19:53 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:13 illsick wrote:
only 5 GSL's in 2012 and no WC or super tournament :/ And the prize pool is the same..n When I saw the mlg prov numbers and their promise of a larger prize pool I was like GSL has to step it up or the.best koreans will just go to the large prize pool foreigner events, I guess not tho.
Practically speaking they went from 8 torunaments to 5. For the top end players the prize money is less but for everyone else it's better. Consider MVP's lost seeason in code A, he got Code S Ro32 money then drastically less than that for coming in 2 nd in Code A. The new system would have paid him a lot more for his time in Code A as well as giving him a chance to get back into Code S in the same season aka what Supernova and Keen did this season (they also got much more than just ro32 money this season by crawling back).
Edit: forgot the code A comparison someone like the second coming of Yugioh (code A 6 out of 7 seasons) the money is still better in the new system because he gets paid the equivalent of 10 of the old Code A prizepools.
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I wonder if Quantic and EG might play together in GSTL?
As far as i know, there is no harmed feelings between any of these players. Not sure if idra likes NaNi tho, but I'm not sure why he wouldn't, can't remember any argument between them.
Would be really cool to see this, and they would have a good chance of really making an impact, with all the talent between players such as Huk, Idra, PuMa, NaNiwa, SaSe and Destiny.
Also Quantic sais that they are looking for a korean terran, wich would give them a rly nice mixture.
I'm definitly holding my thumbs for this! :D
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Lets read between the lines:
1. GSL will now last longer
2. Code S price-money wont change
3. BO3 instead of BO1
= The players will need to play more games, over a longer period, for the same amount of money
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Excellent changes, not too fussed about the lack of Championship / Super Tourney
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On December 10 2011 20:53 Chr15t wrote:
Lets read between the lines:
1. GSL will now last longer
2. Code S price-money wont change
3. BO3 instead of BO1
= The players will need to play more games, over a longer period, for the same amount of money
#2 could easily be read as, the overall Code S prize money for one year won't change, but it'll be spread out over 5 seasons instead of 9 (if you include ST and WC). You're reading too much between the lines
EDIT: Also, even if you're right, Code A deserves a bigger part of the share so I don't have an issue with it.
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wow thats sad news, hiding the prizemoney cut under a new format
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Double the prize money for code a makes me very happy, Plus without the world championship and super tournament that means more of a budget for other things.
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On December 10 2011 16:09 Waxangel wrote:
Oh hey, their prize pool just got cut by 50%.
CARMAC, I HEAR YOUR GLOATING FROM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC
I bet Sundance has the biggest grin on his face right now. MLG is going to be superimportant now for TOP koreans for the money.
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On December 10 2011 21:10 careohx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 16:09 Waxangel wrote:
Oh hey, their prize pool just got cut by 50%.
CARMAC, I HEAR YOUR GLOATING FROM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC I bet Sundance has the biggest grin on his face right now. MLG is going to be superimportant now for TOP koreans for the money.
well nothing has been confirmed by now
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Im not good at maths but aren't new seasons not that much cheaper than old ones considering that:
Code A is 40 players minimum + 8 demoted players from code S,
12 players receive code S from the RO24 ALONE, Up from 6+MLGwinner+codeAwinner in GSL OCTOBER
A further 10 players can get code S from the UP and Down matches
Code A payout is now 3 millon won or $2.8k, The rest of Code A payouts go up as well.
Considering that there are 12 ro24 brackets does that mean there are 12x 2.8k prizepools? But code S players who drop down and win can only keep their ro32 code S salary?
Updown matches Mean another potential 10 players can go to code S (assuming nobody stays in code S)
I think that some peoples calculations are wrong considering that if in the updown stage ALL PREVIOUS CODE S PLAYERS FALL TO CODE A, they will all be paid a CODE S salary, and all players moving up to code S will also be paid a code S salary. this could blow up costs in a bad season and it is definately a very very generous move by gom. Increased volatility in Code S but paying out more players each season as well.
I hope that the overall savings they make go back into GSTL prize pool. But otherwise I am very happy with the changes.
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On December 10 2011 16:09 Waxangel wrote:
Oh hey, their prize pool just got cut by 50%.
CARMAC, I HEAR YOUR GLOATING FROM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC
How come the prize money is going cut in such a dramatical fashion. Is GOMtv/GSL not doing very well on the korea market? Dont they have enough korean viewers? Or has the growth of SC2 in korea just not been as large as expected, compared to ex. the west?
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I'd be pissed as a player that they are doubling the length of the tournament while charging subscribers the same amount of money per time frame($10 a month) but keeping the prize pool the same. Asking more effort/entertainment from players while just pocketing the difference. It's nice that they increased the Code A money but that's chicken scratch compared to cutting the number of tournaments in half.
The only thing that would rectify this is if there is another tourney that pops up in Korea(maybe OGN?). Gonna be an interesting year.
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no more World Tournament? I'm a sad panda now. Especially GSTL and the World Tournament was so fun to watch because it was different from the GSL tournament.
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I felt the prize pool was always way too top heavy towards the winner anyway and now there's even less tournaments, I mean semi final for Code S and you get only $4k. I much preferred the splits at MLG providence, NASL or IPL 2 and 3.
I loved the idea of a Super Tournament as well with a gigantic prize pool
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On December 10 2011 21:24 Akira_fn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 16:09 Waxangel wrote:
Oh hey, their prize pool just got cut by 50%.
CARMAC, I HEAR YOUR GLOATING FROM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC How come the prize money is going cut in such a dramatical fashion. Is GOMtv/GSL not doing very well on the korea market? Dont they have enough korean viewers? Or has the growth of SC2 in korea just not been as large as expected, compared to ex. the west?
They don't get any money from Koreans other than through sponsorships. The subscription model only works in the "West" due to people having a hard on to watch Koreans(the best) and the disposable income. Koreans don't pay to watch the games live in the studio, they are provided 1080p free streams through GOM. So their whole business plan is practically selling subscriptions to foreigners. From the leak 3 months ago they had sold $1.5 mil of subscriptions up to that point. Who knows exactly how much of that turned into profit or how much it was used for studio/event/salaries but it's a large chunk of change.
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I know a while back you heard stories of GOM struggling financially (no details of course). At any rate, I wish them the best for all the awesome and effort they've delivered so far and will keep buying the occasional season ticket.
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I like these new changes
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Could the decrease in tournament funding caused by the decreased commitment by Blizzard in sponsoring GOM tournaments? IIRC, they sponsored half of GOM's tournament winnings in 2011. Decreasing the amount of GSLs and spreading them out is better for the viewer, but I dislike the changes done with the GSTL.
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good changes,
longer individual seasons with more games for the earlier rounds is great, it will mean the best players are more likely to advance. This in turn is likely to make the finals better and since there are only 5 it will be better anyway.
super tournament was ok but won't be missing it. Regular GSL is more fun imo.
world championship was fun to see foreigners play against non-foreigners but that role is being done by MLG anyways now.. With less GSL matches the koreans will have more time to go to MLG's which is only better.
Team league changes are fine, I don't really care much about it but still.
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Awesome news, that group play will be bo3. Will also give players more time to practice for their specific opponents.
I'm excited for GSL 2012.
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yay! BO3 group stages!! I've wanted that for Soooo long!
I don't mind that it is going to take, like 3 months to finish, or whatever. I think that just makes the tournament that much more illustrious to win. I'm surprised that they didn't up the prize money for the Code S, though... I figured less tournaments would mean they could up it a little bit, at least.... but giving the Code S players who fall from grace more money is nice, gives them a reward for having made it there in the first place.
Good news! Thanks for reportin'
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Longer GSL seasons = good
I approve
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Sad that the ST and WC is no more but other than that it seems fairly ok.
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Really like the BO3 groups actually, longer games will guarantee the best player goes through with longer seasons, will allow great matches from the beginning of the season. Sad about the additional competitions being cut, hopefully the financial situation isn't too bad with GOM but one has to assume they need to save somehow.
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On December 10 2011 21:10 careohx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 16:09 Waxangel wrote:
Oh hey, their prize pool just got cut by 50%.
CARMAC, I HEAR YOUR GLOATING FROM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC I bet Sundance has the biggest grin on his face right now. MLG is going to be superimportant now for TOP koreans for the money.
You are aware that winning the GSL is still 50k minimum and winning an mlg was 5k. So unless Sundance increases the money to something like 10-15 k it won't be substantial. You get 1.3k for being in the round of 32 of code S which was something like a top 5 finish in mlg tournaments.
Anyhow, happy about the changes.
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I'm very happy with every single change including the removal of Super/World tour. This will put the entire focus on the GSL Code S <3 Good job gom! And thanks for translating ours truly 
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There are still too many GSL's a year for it to feel prestigious imho.
Although I suppose with no other Korean alternative 5 or so champions a year is less than BW's 6. But then MSL wins weren't exactly the biggest thing in the world.
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On December 10 2011 16:42 chatuka wrote:
i feel bad for the Koreans that need to make a living off of this. I see lots of Koreans quitting the game or joining foreign teams in 2012. There will be many thread of players going to Quantic, Complexity, EG, or liquid. The prize pool now for foreign tournaments outweigh the prize pool for the GSL tournaments.
IPL 50K with 100K prize pool
NASL 80-100 K prize pool
5 MLG Will have bigger prize pools next year (my guess is 50K each tournament)=250K to 500 K
Dreamhack (60 K)
IEM (50K)
HomeStory Cup (50K)
There are even more tournaments than I have named
So the Question is Why if I was a lower tier player fight like heck just scratch a living from GSL. When i have a great chance of making a serious living at foreign tournaments...
Homestory's got 50k?!
Bloody hell TaKe, you badass
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good that they removed world champ. and super tournament and concentrate on GSL only. If they manage to do a good job with streaming the GSL (which means not 8 bo3s on one day) then I will buy the yearly pass.
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Waow, nice changes !
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Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious...
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I'm confused about the new group seeding system. Anyone care to clarify? So I'm guessing it's now just all randomly generated in RO32? And then again in Ro16?
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On December 10 2011 23:14 pdd wrote:
I'm confused about the new group seeding system. Anyone care to clarify? So I'm guessing it's now just all randomly generated in RO32? And then again in Ro16?
I'm not sure, but pretty confident that this is how it will work.
Top 8 finishers from last season all goes to diffrent groups.
Other 24 are randomly put into these groups.
Ro16 there is this picking starting with what i only can assume to be 2 groupwinners in each group, and then they choose 1 each to join them.
This is how i understood it from OP.
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I'm glad Code A gets bigger prize pool. Thanks for the info/news & Translation!
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all good changes except no world tournament , and yea gstl should be just like proleague, small seasons are bad
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thanks to gom for the change. tge code s group stages really werent great at all
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hmm, some good changes some not that great, but i think its better than the old format
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how does the code a prize money work since theres no "winners" does everyone who participate get it or something?
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I like the longer seasons, mainly because players not have to play as often which makes them more likely to travel overseas for other tournaments since the schedule allows for it.
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homestory cup, the prize pool was 5000 euros. correction.
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Bo3 in group stages : =D
Group selection : :-|
No WC : :-(
No ST : =(
No prize pool increase : =(
GSTL : :-|
Overall : :-(
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I like the longer season and more prize money alot! seeded group selection should help out the best quite a bit too. Not really a fan of gstl change i actually enjoyed last seasons format quite a bit.
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Bo3 in group stages is of course a welcome change, and perhaps GSL will feel a little longer now. No WC is sad, but I'm not shedding any tears for the Super Tournament, didn't really see the point of it anyway. GSTL change I have no idea.
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On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious...
Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says.
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On December 10 2011 15:13 illsick wrote:
only 5 GSL's in 2012 and no WC or super tournament :/
I like it, it helps each individual season become a bigger deal and moves it toward being more prestigious like the OSL/MSL.
Only complaint is that I'd like to see Bo5s from the beginning, and then Bo7 in the semis/finals. I feel 3 creates too much of a chance for a lesser player to advance if they get an easy build order win or favorable maps. Plus I'd just like to see more games in general.
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I like the fact that there will be fewer and longer seasons. Each win will mean more and build more hype. Good decision!
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On December 10 2011 15:47 Primadog wrote:
Okay, went through the GSTL part again (thanks for the translation Selith!):
The new GSTL has three stages, with following outline based on a league of 10 teams:
I. "Prelim" - Start with 10
- Top two teams (based on past GSTL, starting with MvP and Prime) skips this stage (2 advances)
- Teams are paired up randomly to play a single set against each other
- Winner advances to next stage (4 advances)
- Losers play against each other for advancement (2 advance, 2 eliminated)
Sets played
Seeded: 0
Winner: 1
Loser: 2
II. "Group Stage" - Start with 8
- The group stage consists of two groups
- Each group consists of one seeded team (1), two winners from Stage I (2), and one team that does not get eliminated (1)
- Played in "Dual Tournament" format, similar to the GSL group stage currently (ie: winner play winner, loser play loser, winner play loser)
- Bottom two eliminated; top 2 of each group stage advance (4 advance total)
Sets played
rank 1: 2
rank 2: 3
rank 3: 3
rank 4: 2
III. "Finals" - Start with 4
- single elimination, rank #1 plays rank #2
Sets played
Champion: 2
Runner-up: 2
3rd & 4th: 1
The translation did not go into how the stages are adjusted for more than 10 teams, but the overall structure is fairly flexible for a league of any size. The I. Prelim provides for the possibility of cutting more than two teams to leave the group stage for a rounded number (a power-of-2).
The changes made sense in context of avoiding excessive time-commitment for foreign teams. The minimum number of sets a team play is 2, which depends on scheduling is 1 or 2 weeks, much less than the 5 expected from the first GSTL. Dual tournament was probably adopted because it has the advantage over the standard round-robin by never requiring for a tie-breaker, or require messy point systems. Of course, this also means that certain desirable matchups will never be played, simply because of the way bracket unfolds.
Overall, the GSTL changes have sound reasoning. The only critic I have for it is that it may be confusing to introduce another new format (the previous one only had one run), and that multiple stages does not provide for bracket-theorycrafting (something invaluable for engaging hardcore fans).
so if GSTL moves forward with only 10 teams then there will only be 16 matches before the final bracket. Compared to the 30 matches of last season. I guess fantasy GSTL could still work but there is nearly half as many matches.
hopefully EG and TL will join and we'll have a bigger roster for more matches.
Could anyone explain how you would resolve a loser's bracket with odd number of teams?
overall big hit to fantasy GSTL... Here's hoping they find some way to make it work. Maybe new korean teams will come out of the wood work pad the roster a bit. what are the qualifications for joining GSTL? Is it still invite based?
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On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says.
Well, I think you got my point wrong. I mean the overall prizemoney in one year. Like, you said, the Code S prize money stays the same, but with less Code S seasons, it's a reduction of the prizemoney which is paid to the players. (in one year)
And without the ST and the WC they save even more money.
Thats why I'm so curious if GOM is in danger to go out of business..
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You should probably change BO8 to RO8 in the OP.
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On December 11 2011 00:42 Seriox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says. Well, I think you got my point wrong. I mean the overall prizemoney in one year. Like, you said, the Code S prize money stays the same, but with less Code S seasons, it's a reduction of the prizemoney which is paid to the players. (in one year) And without the ST and the WC they save even more money. Thats why I'm so curious if GOM is in danger to go out of business..
Highly doubt GOM is losing money with their SC2 division. If anything, it has made their company even more popular since they are basically monopolizing the SC2 viewership in Korea.
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I like the longer season, but it does suck that they aren't boosting the Code S prize money even a little. Even something like a 20% increase would make it, at very minimum, seem much less harsh.
Will miss the World Championship. I thought it was one of best tournament concepts to date, and it didn't disappoint.
GSTL...I'm torn. In truth, I've never followed a Pro League season, although I did follow GSTL.
What I didn't like about GSTL: Near the end there were match ups that just didn't matter because the teams that were going to be in the next round were basically already determined. At least now, the matches will have more value.
What I did like though, is that since not all matches were of the utmost importance for making it to the next round, players who were less well know had a chance to be in the spotlight.
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Like everybody else here, I want GSTL to be more like PL. PL's format is so much fun to watch and it lends itself to being more team-oriented (you can't just have one player completely carry for the team).
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Wait, so I'm confused on the prize money thing. Does it just mean that a Code S player who falls to Code A will get more money? Excuse the probably dumb question, I'm still mega hungover from my "Last day before Finals" party last night.
I really like the increase in Code A money. We all know from the constant reminders from Artosis and others that GSL is really the only major source of income for the Korean progamers who can't be sent to international tournaments. More money for the kids down in Code A can only be a good thing.
Other that that, GSTL changes just plain sound complicated. I probably wouldn't have understood them completely sober. But everything else that's changed I can get behind/accept. Good stuff!
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Why can't gstl just follow pro league format? Theres a reason it worked so well in BW and is so popular.
Turn all the extra prize money and put it into GSTL. Make GSTL the biggest tournament. There will be more focus on teams + star players. Hype it up and sponsors will come running in since a team tournament is much more exciting and can pull more audience in.
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On December 11 2011 01:21 poorcloud wrote:
Why can't gstl just follow pro league format? Theres a reason it worked so well in BW and is so popular.
Turn all the extra prize money and put it into GSTL. Make GSTL the biggest tournament. There will be more focus on teams + star players. Hype it up and sponsors will come running in since a team tournament is much more exciting and can pull more audience in.
It would be smart for them to wait and see what KeSPA does with SC2 (along with current BW teams) before committing to a full league format
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On December 11 2011 01:17 Mauldo wrote:Wait, so I'm confused on the prize money thing. Does it just mean that a Code S player who falls to Code A will get more money? Excuse the probably dumb question, I'm still mega hungover from my "Last day before Finals" party last night. I really like the increase in Code A money. We all know from the constant reminders from Artosis and others that GSL is really the only major source of income for the Korean progamers who can't be sent to international tournaments. More money for the kids down in Code A can only be a good thing. Other that that, GSTL changes just plain sound complicated. I probably wouldn't have understood them completely sober. But everything else that's changed I can get behind/accept. Good stuff!
If you start out in Code S and falls to Code A Round, then you still get the Code S pay. This site is in Korean, but you can still figure out how everyone is going to get paid. Also, notice the DRASTIC prize pool increase in GSTL.
http://img.gomtv.com/upload/1323/4981/9290/756833.jpg
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isnt 8 weeks abit too long for a tournament?
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cool changes- but i really like the world championship
=[isnt 8 weeks abit too long for a tournament?
lol no its not, i never followed BW but osl was about 4 months-
longer seasons are better because players have more time to prepare for matches and produce better games.
Plus then it will mean ALOT more if you win a GSL trophy next year ( not that it wasn't a big deal this year, but still)
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
On December 11 2011 01:35 MadNeSs wrote:
isnt 8 weeks abit too long for a tournament?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
watch an OSL/MSL....hell watch how long it took TSL3 to finish.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
Thanks for that image. If you factor in just how much the Code A and GSTL prize pool increases are over the course of the year then it appears GomTV and the GSL isn't "saving" or "downsizing" quite as much as people thought.
Nevertheless, while fewer, but lengthier GSLs create more prestige, it also means it will be harder for Korean teams to get by if they are poorly sponsored. Those relying on GSL winnings to get by will essentially have their paychecks (of the same for Code S, slightly more for Code A) coming in only about half as often with only 5 GSLs a year.
Edit Actually, I did some bad math. It is still quite a big downsizing.
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this is all good news to me
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On December 11 2011 01:45 mrRoflpwn wrote:cool changes- but i really like the world championship =[ lol no its not, i never followed BW but osl was about 4 months- longer seasons are better because players have more time to prepare for matches and produce better games. Plus then it will mean ALOT more if you win a GSL trophy next year ( not that it wasn't a big deal this year, but still)
That's very subjective. It's really not always the case that longer time to prepare produces better games, a lot of the time it's the exact opposite. Given a week or two to train for one opponent players will often come up with some very ultra specific cheese/strategy that meta games whatever their opponent tends to do and can result in very lopsided stomp fests. MLG type tournaments often have better games. Of course, both formats can produce good games but I wouldn't say longer is always better.
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Seems like sc2 in korea isn't doing so well if they are cutting the amount of GSL's/GSTLs down. Way less prize money in korea now ;(. I expect to see more korean teams partner with more foreign teams now, as well as more koreans joining foreign teams.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
I like the individual league changes. Not sure about the GSTL changes, but as long as they keep winner's league format I can live with any other changes.
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On December 11 2011 00:59 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 00:42 Seriox wrote:On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says. Well, I think you got my point wrong. I mean the overall prizemoney in one year. Like, you said, the Code S prize money stays the same, but with less Code S seasons, it's a reduction of the prizemoney which is paid to the players. (in one year) And without the ST and the WC they save even more money. Thats why I'm so curious if GOM is in danger to go out of business.. Highly doubt GOM is losing money with their SC2 division. If anything, it has made their company even more popular since they are basically monopolizing the SC2 viewership in Korea.
You dont make those kinds of cuts unless you are losing money ...
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On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says.
And you might want to read between the lines. The prize we pay to watch a GSL season has increased, and having longer seasons means that GomTV makes more money with advertisements and sponsorship per season. Increasing the code A prize pool in very nice, but with all the revenue the new system will bring them, I think they could also have boosted the Code S prize too.
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On December 11 2011 01:59 juicyjames wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 01:28 jellyjello wrote:On December 11 2011 01:17 Mauldo wrote:Wait, so I'm confused on the prize money thing. Does it just mean that a Code S player who falls to Code A will get more money? Excuse the probably dumb question, I'm still mega hungover from my "Last day before Finals" party last night. I really like the increase in Code A money. We all know from the constant reminders from Artosis and others that GSL is really the only major source of income for the Korean progamers who can't be sent to international tournaments. More money for the kids down in Code A can only be a good thing. Other that that, GSTL changes just plain sound complicated. I probably wouldn't have understood them completely sober. But everything else that's changed I can get behind/accept. Good stuff! If you start out in Code S and falls to Code A Round, then you still get the Code S pay. This site is in Korean, but you can still figure out how everyone is going to get paid. Also, notice the DRASTIC prize pool increase in GSTL. http://img.gomtv.com/upload/1323/4981/9290/756833.jpg Thanks for that image. If you factor in just how much the Code A and GSTL prize pool increases are over the course of the year then it appears GomTV and the GSL isn't "saving" or "downsizing" quite as much as people thought. Nevertheless, while fewer, but lengthier GSLs create more prestige, it also means it will be harder for Korean teams to get by if they are poorly sponsored. Those relying on GSL winnings to get by will essentially have their paychecks (of the same for Code S, slightly more for Code A) coming in only about half as often with only 5 GSLs a year.
GSTL prize pool is still almost exactly the same as season 1 of this year.
Total Code A prize pool will be about 32 million won per tournament next year compared to 13 million won this year
But there'll only be 5 Code A seasons next year compared to 7 this year, which comes up to a total prize pool increase of 69 million won (+)
Total Code S prize pool will decrease because there'll be two seasons less which comes up to a prize pool decrease of
264 million won (-)
We also have to consider that there won't be the world championships or the super tournament, which comes up to a prize pool decrease of
312 million won (-)
So we have a total decrease of at least 500 million won.. So essentially GOM is cutting close to USD500,000 in expenses (about 40% of their total prize pool) for the next year. How is this not significant downsizing?
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lol. people are praising the new longer-league format system but hate on NASL for having a long season. Good job everyone. Regardless, I'm excited for the new GSL :D
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On December 11 2011 02:16 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 00:59 jellyjello wrote:On December 11 2011 00:42 Seriox wrote:On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says. Well, I think you got my point wrong. I mean the overall prizemoney in one year. Like, you said, the Code S prize money stays the same, but with less Code S seasons, it's a reduction of the prizemoney which is paid to the players. (in one year) And without the ST and the WC they save even more money. Thats why I'm so curious if GOM is in danger to go out of business.. Highly doubt GOM is losing money with their SC2 division. If anything, it has made their company even more popular since they are basically monopolizing the SC2 viewership in Korea. You dont make those kinds of cuts unless you are losing money ...
Hmm I wonder how much blizzard is charging them to lose money promoting their game.
Maybe GOM needs to raise the subscription price even more. People on this forum need to support esports more if they want more prize money!
The only other option is to try to try make more money from increased add revenue by making vods cheaper/free for more views. But I doubt that would work so they should definitely be focusing on getting as much money as possible from the smaller group of fans willing to stay up late or pay lots of money to watch. Hope increased competition from free foreign tournaments with lots of Koreans doesn't make them lose subscriptions!
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i wonder if GSL would consider changing locations for seasons? is this just too expensive?
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mrbamboo
United States415 Posts
My biggest disappointment is the new GSTL format does not lend itself well to having a fantasy league for it. That was a big part of what made the last GSTL season so fun for me.
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I'm surprised we haven't heard any outcry from the players yet. For the ones that do not make a salary this is essentially cutting their potential income in half, with no explanation as to why.
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you don't think they could do a fantasy league off of the 16 matches before final brackets?
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GSL looks to be shaping up nicely, I remember listening to SOTG and hearing some issues about how it's ran, but GSL is maintaining it's consistency, while making it more worthwhile.
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Urgh, I don't like the GSTL change at all.
Round-robin was great, as it meant that teams couldn't rely on just one lucky upset. It also gave a more accurate representation of a team's strength. Double-elimination means that some teams will never face each other, and some will get a free ride into later rounds.
This definitely hurts the lower-skilled teams, as they'll go 0-2 and be eliminated, instead of playing 5 matches.
EDIT: And get rid of the winner's league format. Having it as a diversion is nice, but basing the entire league around it only hurts the up-and-coming players. Imagine if proleague were all winner's league... Flash Flash Flash~
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On December 10 2011 19:53 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:13 illsick wrote:
only 5 GSL's in 2012 and no WC or super tournament :/ And the prize pool is the same..n When I saw the mlg prov numbers and their promise of a larger prize pool I was like GSL has to step it up or the.best koreans will just go to the large prize pool foreigner events, I guess not tho.
Not necessarily a bad thing if the other majors step up the prize pool because you will get more Koreans showing up to those events and qualifiers. They are cutting their costs back a little. Doesn't mean the future outlook is bad.
On December 11 2011 01:10 The Final Boss wrote:
Like everybody else here, I want GSTL to be more like PL. PL's format is so much fun to watch and it lends itself to being more team-oriented (you can't just have one player completely carry for the team).
They need more sponsors for that. GSTL isn't anywhere near PL yet.
On December 11 2011 01:56 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 01:35 MadNeSs wrote:
isnt 8 weeks abit too long for a tournament? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL watch an OSL/MSL....hell watch how long it took TSL3 to finish.
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mrbamboo
United States415 Posts
Well you could do fantasy, but it'll be rather short. 2 groups of 4 round robin is what, 12 matches? That's pretty short. Each team only gets to play 3 matches so you will have to trade players like crazy because they all play so few games. The trading value changes is too drastic for a good balanced fantasy with this few games.
compared to last season every team played five games, and there was a total of 30 matches.
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Nice update on the GSL format; prize money looks even more miserable now, though.
I wonder what are GomTV's revenues. Relatively poor quality, software-locked stream, average production (aside for the awesome voice-acted player announcements), normal prices... I think that mantaining a studio should not hinder their earnings so much; maybe they lack deep-pocketed sponsors?
I am somewhat dubious about the GSTL format, however. We will see.
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I'm ok with most of the changes.... GSL should definitely be cut down a bit, having so many championships will diminish the value of winning it; right now I don't feel winning the GSL is as important as winning an OSL/MSL.
Getting rid of the WC and ST isn't that big a deal; they feel sort of tacked on haphazardly to the schedule as it is. The WC should be the Blizzard Cup and if the ST is going to be a once a year thing instead of a concurrent title (ala MSL/OSL running together before the MSL folded) then it's not a big deal anyways.
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Interesting...seem like mostly good changes
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why no world championship :/
i think that was one of the best events of the year
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i agree with you guys that less GSL per season= better.. Too bad they couldn't increase the prize pool per tournament.
I'm just so jealous of the other professional sports that get huge ratings, thus huge dollars. With time, i think Esports will be a multi-million dollar business, just like any other major sport
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I like the GSL changes but I really dislike the GSTL changes, feel there would be too many repeats of the same two teams if they were to be seeded along with only 2 other teams. I would really like to see PL format and the league would be much better.
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Bah.
The GSTL was perfect the way it was. Winner stays on. Last man standing.
No panzy double elimination, 2v2's or bloody ace matchs breaking it up.
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On December 11 2011 03:03 coolcor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:16 Xeris wrote:On December 11 2011 00:59 jellyjello wrote:On December 11 2011 00:42 Seriox wrote:On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says. Well, I think you got my point wrong. I mean the overall prizemoney in one year. Like, you said, the Code S prize money stays the same, but with less Code S seasons, it's a reduction of the prizemoney which is paid to the players. (in one year) And without the ST and the WC they save even more money. Thats why I'm so curious if GOM is in danger to go out of business.. Highly doubt GOM is losing money with their SC2 division. If anything, it has made their company even more popular since they are basically monopolizing the SC2 viewership in Korea. You dont make those kinds of cuts unless you are losing money ... Hmm I wonder how much blizzard is charging them to lose money promoting their game. Maybe GOM needs to raise the subscription price even more. People on this forum need to support esports more if they want more prize money! The only other option is to try to try make more money from increased add revenue by making vods cheaper/free for more views. But I doubt that would work so they should definitely be focusing on getting as much money as possible from the smaller group of fans willing to stay up late or pay lots of money to watch. Hope increased competition from free foreign tournaments with lots of Koreans doesn't make them lose subscriptions!
Blizzard doesn't charge them outside of some relatively small license fee. The problem is that these leagues don't make money. No esport league makes money. MLG is MAYBE the only league to make money in 2011, and I'm even dubious about that... but luckily they had $10 million in VC money to play with on the year, and I'm sure they have more long term plans so it doesn't matter if they don't make money this year...
GOMTV doesn't seem to have that kind of backing, which means that their league is not being very successful (financially)... hence cutting about 1/2 million from their expenses. Seems like overall, Korea is having a very rough time leveraging SC2's popularity and their players' skill with sponsors the way Western companies / organizations / players are able to do.
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I like the changes to the GSL. The GSTL am not sure yet.
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I love that they are making it bo3 instead of bo1 on the round of 32. I just wish they would shorten the seasons slightly. Currently, I think they take forever to finish and now it is going to be even longer.
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Aren't they increasing the amount foreign viewers have to pay (70 for 5 seasons which 14 per season compared to the 10 i think for this years season) and the prize pool is being cut SO SO much. Holy shit, gom appears to be in trouble.
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On December 11 2011 05:09 BilltownRunner wrote:
Aren't they increasing the amount foreign viewers have to pay (70 for 5 seasons which 14 per season compared to the 10 i think for this years season) and the prize pool is being cut SO SO much. Holy shit, gom appears to be in trouble.
Your math skills lack a bit. Let me help you:
GSL November cost: 10$
GSL November amount of games: 90 (60 group games + ~30 tournament games when you take average game length)
GSL 2012 cost: 14$
GSL 2012 amount of games: ~180 (~150 group games [12*12,5] + ~30 tournament games)
You pay 40% for 100% more games. Think people. They are making less money with subscriptions because you pay 70 instead of 100$ for the year but get the same amount of games. No wonder they have to cut the price pool.
Stop saying gom is in trouble financially, they are probably making the same bottom line next year as this year, depending on the chances to GSTL and the special tournaments.
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No Super or World championships kinda sucks, wont see that BO9 between foreigners and koreans
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On December 11 2011 03:43 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 19:53 thezanursic wrote:On December 10 2011 15:13 illsick wrote:
only 5 GSL's in 2012 and no WC or super tournament :/ And the prize pool is the same..n When I saw the mlg prov numbers and their promise of a larger prize pool I was like GSL has to step it up or the.best koreans will just go to the large prize pool foreigner events, I guess not tho. Not necessarily a bad thing if the other majors step up the prize pool because you will get more Koreans showing up to those events and qualifiers. They are cutting their costs back a little. Doesn't mean the future outlook is bad. Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 01:10 The Final Boss wrote:
Like everybody else here, I want GSTL to be more like PL. PL's format is so much fun to watch and it lends itself to being more team-oriented (you can't just have one player completely carry for the team). They need more sponsors for that. GSTL isn't anywhere near PL yet. Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 01:56 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 11 2011 01:35 MadNeSs wrote:
isnt 8 weeks abit too long for a tournament? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL watch an OSL/MSL....hell watch how long it took TSL3 to finish.
i would say that the cut in prizes are pretty significant. I ,at least as a viewer, like to watch players fight, risk their health, their sanity, and physical well beingness just to get a shot at 100 thousand dollars. Though 50 KRW for the winner is very good. I am worried about the lower players that will get maybe 1400 dollars for the round of 32. over 5 months, if that players stays in code S.. he could scratch out 10 to 15K in that year hopefully.
I honestly don't know how these Korean players are going to survive on an annual basis fighting to get a chance to win 46K dollars. Odds are so low, unless you're MVP, MMA, or Nestea.
Let's see the losses
2 Less GSL's = 132*2= 264M KRW
1 Super Tournament= 148 M KW
1 Blizzard Cup =68 M KW
480,000 KRW.. which Blizzard will not spend for Starcraft 2 expenses.
total expenses for prize money=2012
5 GSL Code S= 132,000*5=690 KW
5 Code A qualifiers = 25,800 KRW*5= 103,200 KRW=
793,000 KRW right? on prizes.
regarding cost for team expenses, GomTV's house... and others i don't know
hypothetical Prize money for 2012 without the subtracted seasons and tournaments
954,000 for Code S
148,000 KRW for Super tournament
68,000 KRW for Blizzard Cup
50,100 KRW for Code A
1,220,000 KRW......
BlizzCon is a stable constant.. it can be discounted.
So the prize money is reduced about 35%... which is pretty signficant from one year to the next.
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On December 11 2011 05:39 chatuka wrote:
So the prize money is reduced about 35%... which is pretty signficant from one year to the next.
Since no one of you is doing an actual calculation, I will happily repost my rebuttal here:
On December 11 2011 05:21 jacen wrote:
GSL November cost: 10$
GSL November amount of games: 90 (60 group games + ~30 tournament games when you take average game length)
GSL 2012 cost: 14$
GSL 2012 amount of games: ~180 (~150 group games [12*12,5] + ~30 tournament games)
You pay 40% for 100% more games. Think people. They are making less money with subscriptions because you pay 70 instead of 100$ for the year but get the same amount of games. No wonder they have to cut the price pool.
Stop saying gom is in trouble financially, they are probably making the same bottom line next year as this year, depending on the chances to GSTL and the special tournaments.
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On December 11 2011 05:21 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:09 BilltownRunner wrote:
Aren't they increasing the amount foreign viewers have to pay (70 for 5 seasons which 14 per season compared to the 10 i think for this years season) and the prize pool is being cut SO SO much. Holy shit, gom appears to be in trouble. Your math skills lack a bit. Let me help you: GSL November cost: 10$ GSL November amount of games: 90 (60 group games + ~30 tournament games when you take average game length) GSL 2012 cost: 14$ GSL 2012 amount of games: ~180 (~150 group games [12*12,5] + ~30 tournament games) You pay 40% for 100% more games. Think people. They are making less money with subscriptions because you pay 70 instead of 100$ for the year but get the same amount of games. No wonder they have to cut the price pool. Stop saying gom is in trouble financially, they are probably making the same bottom line next year as this year, depending on the chances to GSTL and the special tournaments.
No one is saying that GOm is in trouble. What we are wondering is, whether the players will be able to survive. This kind of reduction in prize money will lead to significant consequences. If you okay with those consequences, that is absolutely fine man.
GSL has increased subscription rates. I don't know if that will lower the revenue of GomTV or not.. that is all based on Supply and demand.. Sometimes lowering or increasing the selling price of a product will have a tremendous benefit to your revenue, because of increase, or little fluctuation of demand..
Type Price Purchase
Season Ticket $24.99 Purchase
2012 Yearly Ticket Blizzard Cup_Plus 20% $124.95 $99.99 Purchase
PremiumTicket Special Offer! Purchase a Premium+ yearly ticket and receive a free Blizzard Cup ticket (No-Ads)!
[GSL Premium Plus No-Ads]
Type Price Purchase
Season Ticket $34.99 Purchase
2012 Yearly Ticket Blizzard Cup_Plus 20% $174.95 $139.99
We still don't even know how much Blizzard truly made last year in 2011 in subscriptions. I heard they made 1,5 million dollars in subscriptions. We are also not taking into account how much the players are worth to Blizzard. Since, the players generate interest, sell copies of SC2. and lead o sponsers like LG and pepsi to spend serious money for exclusive advertising rights. what I am saying is that accounting is alot mor complex, And i bet the accountant for GOMTV. will openly admit that.
I have to correct myself... GomTV is increasing subsciption rates... compared to 2011.
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On December 11 2011 05:44 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:39 chatuka wrote:
So the prize money is reduced about 35%... which is pretty signficant from one year to the next.
Since no one of you is doing an actual calculation, I will happily repost my rebuttal here: Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:21 jacen wrote:
GSL November cost: 10$
GSL November amount of games: 90 (60 group games + ~30 tournament games when you take average game length)
GSL 2012 cost: 14$
GSL 2012 amount of games: ~180 (~150 group games [12*12,5] + ~30 tournament games)
You pay 40% for 100% more games. Think people. They are making less money with subscriptions because you pay 70 instead of 100$ for the year but get the same amount of games. No wonder they have to cut the price pool.
Stop saying gom is in trouble financially, they are probably making the same bottom line next year as this year, depending on the chances to GSTL and the special tournaments.
Your math makes no real world sense imo.. It's also quite insulting to hear you say how everybody doesn't know how to do any simple arithmetic.
The point is that higher subsciption rates=/ lowered revenues. It could be Gom is optimizng revenue by increasing the fees.. since viewer will not pay a certain price threshold. You are also discounting other factors as implied value of Players.
who generate interest, sell copies of SC2, sell T-Shirts, creating future fanbases that will be the foundation for growth in the future.
I also did a simple calculation on how much Blizzard will not be spending this year.. Let me ask you, how do you call that in an inactual calculation of the Prize pool expenditure from GOM TV for 2012?
GSL November amount of games: 90 (60 group games + ~30 tournament games when you take average game length)
okay i'm following you.
GSL 2012 cost: 14$
GSL 2012 amount of games: ~180 (~150 group games [12*12,5] + ~30 tournament games)
okay,
You pay 40% for 100% more games. Think people. They are making less money with subscriptions because you pay 70 instead of 100$ for the year but get the same amount of games. No wonder they have to cut the price pool.
IC what you are saying..since there are less tournaments, per year, the mount of prize money also has to decrease...
If that is the case then, why doesn't Gom.TV just stick with the 7 tournament schedule instead of 5. That way, they can keep their revenue stream up to par from 2011.
There is something else going on..
GomTV can keep the GSL tournament longer running. While the viewer still has to pay a higher price per season i guess. right? So, Gom TV spends 35% less on prize money. And generates the same revenue stream as of last season..
Since if the viewer pays 70 Dollars this season for 2011.. the Viewer will also pay 70 dollars for this season...
Meanwhile the prize money is reduced... So yes, the players have to play more games, receive less prize money.
While GomTV is banking an increase in price will buffer the revenue hit caused by less tournaments...
At this point, I don't know if Blizzard is being greedy by reducing the prize pool for 2012 while increasing subscription fees. If I was a player, I would certainly wonder how they could reduce the prize pool, when the players are the ones that are putting it on the line and sacrificing everything, so that Blizzard can make millions of dollars selling SC2. I honestly think the players are worth more than that, based on their ability to sell games, generate interest in StarCraft 2, sell merchandise, attract sponsors.. If I was a player, i would either leave for a foreign team or quit.. exceptions include MMA and MVP... they will probably win most of the 2012 GSL titles i think
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8 weeks seasons = best move ever.
There was so many finals that It was actually less epic.
And players will have more time to train, so they should perform better.
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I like how the prizemoney becomes less top-down heavy.
I'm hoping for the same "money handed out / time" ratio, but less heavy towards the top.
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Players do not live off of prize money alone. -_-
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Meh less tournaments but I'm very very happy with the BO3 :D
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On December 11 2011 06:21 StarStruck wrote:
Players do not live off of prize money alone. -_-
yes, but lowering the relative prize money handed out to players (either in proportion to subscription fee or in proportion to time) is incredibly bad pr I would say.
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I would not jump to such conclusions when we don't have all the facts.
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On December 10 2011 18:09 Greentellon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 16:06 motumbo wrote:
Wait what? If a player falls from Code S to Code A and then wins they win the same amount as if they were to win Code S? So isn't there a chance that people purposefully drop out of Code S in the later rounds if they don't think they can win Code S so that they have a chance at more money in Code A then they would receive if they would get like RO4 or RO8? I don't know if this is probable but if it is possible then it is kind of worrying.
EDIT: left something out Have you seen the people that have been in Code A matches lately? Falling down intentionally would be too risky. Players want a [b]stable[/b income and Code A is a "buffer" in case sh*t happens.
Well say you are in the RO16 and you see that if you win and say Nestea wins, you will be playing eachother in the RO8. Do you think that going through Nestea and then 2 more Code S players to win Code S would be harder than going through 3 Code A players to win Code S money? I could see people thinking the latter path would be easier and if they were to win they would go into Code S. If they did purposefully drop down into Code A they would still have a good chance of getting Code S status back. I just think that it is a problem that purposefully losing games could be possible.
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On December 11 2011 06:38 motumbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 18:09 Greentellon wrote:On December 10 2011 16:06 motumbo wrote:
Wait what? If a player falls from Code S to Code A and then wins they win the same amount as if they were to win Code S? So isn't there a chance that people purposefully drop out of Code S in the later rounds if they don't think they can win Code S so that they have a chance at more money in Code A then they would receive if they would get like RO4 or RO8? I don't know if this is probable but if it is possible then it is kind of worrying.
EDIT: left something out Have you seen the people that have been in Code A matches lately? Falling down intentionally would be too risky. Players want a [b]stable[/b income and Code A is a "buffer" in case sh*t happens. Well say you are in the RO16 and you see that if you win and say Nestea wins, you will be playing eachother in the RO8. Do you think that going through Nestea and then 2 more Code S players to win Code S would be harder than going through 3 Code A players to win Code S money? I could see people thinking the latter path would be easier and if they were to win they would go into Code S. If they did purposefully drop down into Code A they would still have a good chance of getting Code S status back. I just think that it is a problem that purposefully losing games could be possible.
I heavily doubt that if somebody falls down to code A and wins all the way till the... ro24 that he/she will get as much as the code S final winner. Anyways, let's wait for something official first.
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United States238 Posts
I clarified the Code S/A prize matter a bit. Basically, a Code S player that falls down to Code A will not receive any additional cash from Code A prize pool.
In addition, GSTL prize money went up significantly.
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I think it's funny that people are complaining about prize money, and seemingly only think about the winner. The overall scheme of GSL 2012 seems more suited for letting everybody have a piece of the cake. At least that's how I read it. Right now Code A is really low on payout compared to Code S, and since only one players win each season I think it's a overall better idea to increase the prize pool for everybody, and not just buff the payouts for the winners by a certain amount.
I haven't read all the math done here though, so I might be off, but in general I see this as a change for the good. Letting more players have a bigger share of the prize pool = more money to everybody, making it easier for everyone to live, not just the winner. You can see the difference in payouts from SC2 Earnings, Mvp, NesTea and MC is far ahead of everybody else. So yeah, I think overall this is more healthy and instead of just boosting the winners payouts they are boosting everybody. wp
edit: and with the big increase in the prize pool for GSTL = easier for teams to survive.
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I think GSL are wanting to put more of an emphasis on the TeamLeague, which I reckon can only be a good thing. Teams like IM don't seem to give a shit about TeamLeague - or at least MVP and Nestea don't.
ProLeague and Winner's League are both really entertaining and popular in BW, and GomTV probably want to encourage that in SC2 as well.
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Umm the GSTL prize pool is a drop in the bucket and really marginal increase compared to the drop in overall prize money from fiscal 2011 to 2012.
i actually think the 1st place winner should get the majority of the prize money.. that is not a novel concept.
the round of 32 player still makes 1,400 dollars, if he even makes in code S.. If the player is lucky, he'll get a shot to earn at least 1,400 KRW per tournament, which are only 5. that total is 7000 KRW.. Players can not survive on that... I have no idea how players will continue their commitment with their teams with that kind of pay schedule.
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okay regarding code A, the total amount of prize money to the 40 code A player ranges from 19 200 000 (24 are eliminated in the first round and the remaining 16 in the next) to 26 400 000 (16 are eliminated in the first round, 8 in the second, 4 lose in the final round and the maximum number of 12 code A players win the ro-24). (Originally, it was around 12000000.)
and gstl prize pool increased from 50000000 to 63000000.
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GSTL prize money is still far lacking. With the decreased number of GSL's, I expected 100,000,000 won for first place, 50,000,000 won for second and 25,000,000 for semi finalists.
GSTL has at least got to have a bigger prize than GSL. Takes longer and involves so many more players.
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Guys, about prize money for Korean players, being honest its not really THAT bad that the prize is relatively reduced. Most players don´t live off prize pool(Koreans and foreigners) the important thing is the exposure this players get.
While Prize pool does matter it matters more as in making the tourney look more prestigious than the players being now poor.If you guys are all so concerned about players income, pester some cool company with tweets or something so that they take interest in sponsoring the teams
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On December 11 2011 07:31 windsupernova wrote:
Guys, about prize money for Korean players, being honest its not really THAT bad that the prize is relatively reduced. Most players don´t live off prize pool(Koreans and foreigners) the important thing is the exposure this players get.
While Prize pool does matter it matters more as in making the tourney look more prestigious than the players being now poor.If you guys are all so concerned about players income, pester some cool company with tweets or something so that they take interest in sponsoring the teams
Never said it was that bad for the players, but I don't think it's morally very right to want more money because you let the players play more games on the one hand, but give them relatively less money on the other. That's just personal opinion ofc.
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On December 11 2011 04:49 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 03:03 coolcor wrote:On December 11 2011 02:16 Xeris wrote:On December 11 2011 00:59 jellyjello wrote:On December 11 2011 00:42 Seriox wrote:On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says. Well, I think you got my point wrong. I mean the overall prizemoney in one year. Like, you said, the Code S prize money stays the same, but with less Code S seasons, it's a reduction of the prizemoney which is paid to the players. (in one year) And without the ST and the WC they save even more money. Thats why I'm so curious if GOM is in danger to go out of business.. Highly doubt GOM is losing money with their SC2 division. If anything, it has made their company even more popular since they are basically monopolizing the SC2 viewership in Korea. You dont make those kinds of cuts unless you are losing money ... Hmm I wonder how much blizzard is charging them to lose money promoting their game. Maybe GOM needs to raise the subscription price even more. People on this forum need to support esports more if they want more prize money! The only other option is to try to try make more money from increased add revenue by making vods cheaper/free for more views. But I doubt that would work so they should definitely be focusing on getting as much money as possible from the smaller group of fans willing to stay up late or pay lots of money to watch. Hope increased competition from free foreign tournaments with lots of Koreans doesn't make them lose subscriptions! Blizzard doesn't charge them outside of some relatively small license fee. The problem is that these leagues don't make money. No esport league makes money. MLG is MAYBE the only league to make money in 2011, and I'm even dubious about that... but luckily they had $10 million in VC money to play with on the year, and I'm sure they have more long term plans so it doesn't matter if they don't make money this year... GOMTV doesn't seem to have that kind of backing, which means that their league is not being very successful (financially)... hence cutting about 1/2 million from their expenses. Seems like overall, Korea is having a very rough time leveraging SC2's popularity and their players' skill with sponsors the way Western companies / organizations / players are able to do.
Thanks for the response but that doesn't sound good at all! If no esport league makes money why are there a bunch of companies spending a bunch of money on big esport leagues? What do people think will happen in the future? A collapse of the esports bubble or will they find a way to get profitable. (What are their plans to become profitable? Hope that even more people start watching?)
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Really disappointed by this GSTL format change
Do like all the GSL changes though
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Why are you guys so concerned about the players being able to live?? Pro gamers have 0 expense... they live in a team house, the team pays for housing, food, travel, everything. If they make $15,000 in a year that's actually pretty good, considering they have almost no expense, and the player probably will make $500-1000 / month just by streaming.
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On December 11 2011 07:34 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:31 windsupernova wrote:
Guys, about prize money for Korean players, being honest its not really THAT bad that the prize is relatively reduced. Most players don´t live off prize pool(Koreans and foreigners) the important thing is the exposure this players get.
While Prize pool does matter it matters more as in making the tourney look more prestigious than the players being now poor.If you guys are all so concerned about players income, pester some cool company with tweets or something so that they take interest in sponsoring the teams
Never said it was that bad for the players, but I don't think it's morally very right to want more money because you let the players play more games on the one hand, but give them relatively less money on the other. That's just personal opinion ofc.
Yeah I get your point, but people are acting as if it was a collapse and that SC2 Koreans teams won´t be able to support themeselves any longer. In reality what matters more for teams and players is the exposure so that they can get sponsors.
It sucks and I agree with you but it doesn´t mean that now playing in the GSL isn´t worth it for Korean players
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you think living is just free? like how money grows on trees (which they actually do..LoL)
dude it's expensive to live man. doesn't matter where... food, clothing, phones.... It would also be nice if the players could also
earn an income.. i mean what is wrong with a player saving money that he can buy a car or go to college?
That's besides the my point... It's a 35% decreease in Prize money. that is pretty significant. I already thought that taking care of 100 people would be expensive.. if Everybody averages 10K a year, which is not even close to reality. It's like being told by your boss that you will get a 35% decrease in paycheck,, for doing the same work.. While the employee has gained experience and is more efficient for the employer. that's like earning 50K a year and having it cut to 32.5K a year... it's a tremendous difference for doing actually more work for your employer.. My job would never allow that kind of abuse.
100 *10K= 1 million dollars.so you need at least 1 million dollars to take care of the players just to support a 10K per player salary. And you know the prizes are given unequally based on performance... So there are probably like 80% of team players that just barely getting by. on pure fumes only.
The thing that gets me is that these players are being used by Blizzard to sell millions of copies of SC2 around the world. These players also help sell t-shirts, merchandise, and they help attract sponsors. Blizzard get their more than fair share of profit from creating these GSL tournaments IMO. It's really the player's move now to decide the outcome of SC2...
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wow does that mean they are doing less revenue than before? First gsl was 200k, then 100k over 1 month, now 100k over 2 months....is sc2 dying?
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GSL changes are really good except for the fact that WC and Super Tournament won't happen anymore, I like that there will be only 5 GSLs in a year, it makes it a lot more special than having 10 in one year, also I hope we get some good non-korean teams in GSTL! Good changes imo.
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I don't think they ever addressed how much GSL points code A players get. Also they never really mentioned how the second code S seed is granted.
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I really loved the World Championship and Super Tournament. I'm sad knowing that those events are going to happen next year, but since they are lengthening the GSL seasons it's understandable.
It also seems wrong to me that group nominations are happening at the Ro16 instead of the Ro32. As strange as it sounds, the group nominations are one of my favorite part of watching the GSL and I'm going to miss the assembling of the 32 players into 8 groups and the hilarity, drama, and entertainment that came out of it.
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Unless I'm mistaken, this is less overall prize money per year, since we're down to 5 seasons from 9 in the past year. Does GOM still have total rights to SC2 broadcasting? If so, for how much longer? Bet we'll see a lot more Korean players venturing out into foreign tournaments in the coming year.
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On December 11 2011 05:56 chatuka wrote:
Your math makes no real world sense imo.. It's also quite insulting to hear you say how everybody doesn't know how to do any simple arithmetic.
[...]
IC what you are saying..since there are less tournaments, per year, the mount of prize money also has to decrease...
If that is the case then, why doesn't Gom.TV just stick with the 7 tournament schedule instead of 5. That way, they can keep their revenue stream up to par from 2011.
You are funny. Why don't you just add the numbers up. Either you can't, or you are too lazy, which is both sad. If you really want to play this game, by all means. For the sake of argument, I will only count actual GSL seasons and exclude up&down (which would severely tip the scales in favor for 2012):
2011:
GSL jan
number of games: 89 Code S + 77 Code A = 166
prize money: 128 960$
prize money per game: 776,87$
cost: 10$
cost per game: ~0,06$
GSL mar
number of games: 91 + 72 = 163
prize money: 128 960$
prize money per game: 791,17$
cost: 10$
cost per game: ~0,06$
GSL may number of games: 89 + 82 = 171
prize money: 128 960$
prize money per game: 754,15
cost: 10$
cost per game: ~0,06$
GSL jul number of games: 84 + 81 = 165
prize money: 128 960$
prize money per game: 781,58
cost: 10$
cost per game: ~0,06$
GSL aug number of games: 90 + 78 = 168
prize money: 128 960$
prize money per game: 767,61$
cost: 10$
cost per game: ~0,06$
GSL oct number of games: 92 + 74 = 166
prize money: 128 960$
prize money per game: 776,87$
cost: 10$
cost per game: ~0,06$
GSL oct number of games: ~90 + ~130 (!!!!) = 220
prize money: 128 960$
prize money per game: 586,18$ (!!!!)
cost: 10$
cost per game: ~0,045$
--------------------------------------------------------
2012:
GSL number of games: 180 + 130 = 310
prize money:128 960$
prize money per game: ~416$
cost: 14$
cost per game: 0,045$
--------------------------------------------------------
2011 total:
number of games: 1219
prize money: 902720$
prize money per game: 740,54$
cost: 70$
cost per game: 0,057$
2012 total:
number of games: 1550 (+27%)
prize money: 644800$ (-39%)
prize money per game: 416$ (-44%)
cost: 70$ (+/- 0%)
cost per game: 0,045$ (-21%)
Conclusion:
Players take the biggest hit in prize money. Seeing as how MC, Nestea and MVP made much money by dominating 3 seasons in a relative short timespan, this can also be seen as an effort to spread out the winnings more. Also, I didn't factor in people like me who bought the 100$ pass or are buying the season tickets so cost per game will rise a little, but it certainly won't break the increased number of games so viewers effectively pay less for the same production value as last year.
Players will also have much more screen time, ideally prompting higher regular sponsors. That's also why I dislike the GSTL so much, because it drives sponsors away from teams and onto single players. We will probably see more standardized team outfits to clarify team allegiance of important players.
And again: Some people falsely speculated that GOM is doing this for the bottom line. Numbers show otherwise.
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@jacen, just because they are Bo3, doesn't mean there will always be 3 games played.
The biggest disappointing part (imo) is how the yearly tickets are barely savings, and it is practically better the same to buy per season (you save one season cost tops). The monthly subscriptions are absolutely absurd unless they are charging $50 for each GSTL season...
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On December 11 2011 18:24 trGKakarot wrote:
@jacen, just because they are Bo3, doesn't mean there will always be 3 games played.
I calculated a Bo3 series with an average of 2.5 games. The same as i calculated a Bo5 with 4 games average and a Bo7 with 5.5 games average.
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On December 11 2011 16:18 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:56 chatuka wrote:
Your math makes no real world sense imo.. It's also quite insulting to hear you say how everybody doesn't know how to do any simple arithmetic.
[...]
IC what you are saying..since there are less tournaments, per year, the mount of prize money also has to decrease...
If that is the case then, why doesn't Gom.TV just stick with the 7 tournament schedule instead of 5. That way, they can keep their revenue stream up to par from 2011. You are funny. Why don't you just add the numbers up. Either you can't, or you are too lazy, which is both sad. If you really want to play this game, by all means. For the sake of argument, I will only count actual GSL seasons and exclude up&down (which would severely tip the scales in favor for 2012): 2011: GSL jan number of games: 89 Code S + 77 Code A = 166 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 776,87$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL mar number of games: 91 + 72 = 163 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 791,17$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL may number of games: 89 + 82 = 171 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 754,15 cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL jul number of games: 84 + 81 = 165 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 781,58 cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL aug number of games: 90 + 78 = 168 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 767,61$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL oct number of games: 92 + 74 = 166 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 776,87$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL oct number of games: ~90 + ~130 (!!!!) = 220 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 586,18$ (!!!!) cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,045$ -------------------------------------------------------- 2012: GSL number of games: 180 + 130 = 310 prize money:128 960$ prize money per game: ~416$ cost: 14$ cost per game: 0,045$ -------------------------------------------------------- 2011 total: number of games: 1219 prize money: 902720$ prize money per game: 740,54$ cost: 70$ cost per game: 0,057$ 2012 total: number of games: 1550 (+27%) prize money: 644800$ (-39%) prize money per game: 416$ (-44%) cost: 70$ (+/- 0%) cost per game: 0,045$ (-21%) Conclusion: Players take the biggest hit in prize money. Seeing as how MC, Nestea and MVP made much money by dominating 3 seasons in a relative short timespan, this can also be seen as an effort to spread out the winnings more. Also, I didn't factor in people like me who bought the 100$ pass or are buying the season tickets so cost per game will rise a little, but it certainly won't break the increased number of games so viewers effectively pay less for the same production value as last year. Players will also have much more screen time, ideally prompting higher regular sponsors. That's also why I dislike the GSTL so much, because it drives sponsors away from teams and onto single players. We will probably see more standardized team outfits to clarify team allegiance of important players. And again: Some people falsely speculated that GOM is doing this for the bottom line. Numbers show otherwise.
I'm confused by your analysis since it seems to show that the amount of prize money paid out for games is going to be reduced? I personally think that one of the reasons GOM is reducing the amount of tournaments is to decrease the amount of prizemoney they are giving out.
Alot of people in this thread complaining about money but don't forget - GSL is actually handing out very lucrative prizes (at one stage, it was 50k for first place every month). I doubt it was very sustainable anyway.
Regardless, what they are doing is a step in the right direction:
- 50k for the first place winner is alot of money and winning one of those is already above the salary of the average korean. We don't really need to increase the prize money for first place. GOM is increasing the amount of money for the Code A which is very good. For a long time, I've maintained that the prize money distribution is too top-heavy. This makes is difficult for more players to play starcraft professionally.
- I agree with you about GSTL. I reckon they should've done a league with the matches being BW-proleague format (rather than Winner's League). This will give greater exposure to more players. I personally think that they are still thinking over this format. If the 2012 S1 doesn't quite work out, hopefully the 2012 S2 would have changes more in line with the proleague format.
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On December 11 2011 16:18 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:56 chatuka wrote:
Your math makes no real world sense imo.. It's also quite insulting to hear you say how everybody doesn't know how to do any simple arithmetic.
[...]
IC what you are saying..since there are less tournaments, per year, the mount of prize money also has to decrease...
If that is the case then, why doesn't Gom.TV just stick with the 7 tournament schedule instead of 5. That way, they can keep their revenue stream up to par from 2011. You are funny. Why don't you just add the numbers up. Either you can't, or you are too lazy, which is both sad. If you really want to play this game, by all means. For the sake of argument, I will only count actual GSL seasons and exclude up&down (which would severely tip the scales in favor for 2012): 2011: GSL jan number of games: 89 Code S + 77 Code A = 166 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 776,87$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL mar number of games: 91 + 72 = 163 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 791,17$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL may number of games: 89 + 82 = 171 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 754,15 cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL jul number of games: 84 + 81 = 165 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 781,58 cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL aug number of games: 90 + 78 = 168 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 767,61$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL oct number of games: 92 + 74 = 166 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 776,87$ cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,06$ GSL oct number of games: ~90 + ~130 (!!!!) = 220 prize money: 128 960$ prize money per game: 586,18$ (!!!!) cost: 10$ cost per game: ~0,045$ -------------------------------------------------------- 2012: GSL number of games: 180 + 130 = 310 prize money:128 960$ prize money per game: ~416$ cost: 14$ cost per game: 0,045$ -------------------------------------------------------- 2011 total: number of games: 1219 prize money: 902720$ prize money per game: 740,54$ cost: 70$ cost per game: 0,057$ 2012 total: number of games: 1550 (+27%) prize money: 644800$ (-39%) prize money per game: 416$ (-44%) cost: 70$ (+/- 0%) cost per game: 0,045$ (-21%) Conclusion: Players take the biggest hit in prize money. Seeing as how MC, Nestea and MVP made much money by dominating 3 seasons in a relative short timespan, this can also be seen as an effort to spread out the winnings more. Also, I didn't factor in people like me who bought the 100$ pass or are buying the season tickets so cost per game will rise a little, but it certainly won't break the increased number of games so viewers effectively pay less for the same production value as last year. Players will also have much more screen time, ideally prompting higher regular sponsors. That's also why I dislike the GSTL so much, because it drives sponsors away from teams and onto single players. We will probably see more standardized team outfits to clarify team allegiance of important players. And again: Some people falsely speculated that GOM is doing this for the bottom line. Numbers show otherwise.
umm your numbers dont show otherwise.. it actually supports the argument.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
YES!!!!!!!!!!!
I love you GOM <3
Finally BO3s in Code S all rounds!! Finally, the best tournament in the world, has just reached Optimum level ♥
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Also, another subtle but very good change that may not have been mentioned by many people is that the group nominations is only done in the ro16. This will hopefully lead to very epic finals for we shouldn't get favourites knocking each other out. Unless of course, you have players like MC who picks MVP in the group stages lol
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BO3 change is awesome. Will make for some more games in some great matchups. ^^
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Germany107 Posts
I guess most people reading this article have a rough idea of how much this money is in US Dollars and Euros. To get a more detailled image here is a small list.
(I used wolframalpha.com for values on Dec. 11th 2011. Prize moneys in Euros and US Dollars rounded to fives.)
Code A:
Ro48: 400,000W = 260€ = 350$
Ro32: 600,000W = 390€ = 525$
Ro24: 800,000W = 520€ = 700$
Ro12: 1,000,000W = 650€ = 870$
GSTL:
Winner: 30,000,000W = 19570€ = 26150$
Runner-Up: 15,000,000W = 9780€ = 13070$
Semi-finalists: 4,000,000W = 2610€ = 3485$
Ro8: 2,000,000W = 1305€ = 1740$
Ro10: 1,000,000W = 650€ = 870$
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I like to see this growth. Heres hope that GSL prize money continues to rise and rise. The appeal of watching a Code S final where two players are fighting over $100,000 is ridiculous.
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On December 12 2011 05:24 Rhodon wrote:
I like to see this growth. Heres hope that GSL prize money continues to rise and rise. The appeal of watching a Code S final where two players are fighting over $100,000 is ridiculous.
you realise they are decreasing prize pool...?
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1 less series of best of 1s is always a good thing in my book, just wish they'd get rid of all of them.
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Prize money has always never mattered too much for these players. GSL has always been about prestige and popularity of the teams/players. When players wanna make a quick buck that's when they go to foreign tournaments. For other things, like the costs of living, the teamhouse pays for all of that.
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On December 12 2011 05:24 Rhodon wrote:
I like to see this growth. Heres hope that GSL prize money continues to rise and rise. The appeal of watching a Code S final where two players are fighting over $100,000 is ridiculous.
It would have to start rising in the first place :/
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On December 11 2011 02:16 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 00:59 jellyjello wrote:On December 11 2011 00:42 Seriox wrote:On December 11 2011 00:29 Kieofire wrote:On December 10 2011 22:55 Seriox wrote:
Why is there such a big decrease of the prizemoney? Is GOM in danger to go out of business? Really curious... Where does it say that there is a decrease? It says Code S prize money stays the same and Code A prize money is increased. You might want to reread what the OP says. Well, I think you got my point wrong. I mean the overall prizemoney in one year. Like, you said, the Code S prize money stays the same, but with less Code S seasons, it's a reduction of the prizemoney which is paid to the players. (in one year) And without the ST and the WC they save even more money. Thats why I'm so curious if GOM is in danger to go out of business.. Highly doubt GOM is losing money with their SC2 division. If anything, it has made their company even more popular since they are basically monopolizing the SC2 viewership in Korea. You dont make those kinds of cuts unless you are losing money ...
It's too early to say GOM is losing money. They probably went into this business fully aware that they had to invest heavily in order to ensure their long term viability. You have to give them time to see the return on their investment before making any judgements.
The prize pool this year is actually on par with most of other tournaments are paying. If anything, the prize pool last year was too riduculous especially early in the year. But, I'm betting that it was all part of their business plan; they had to up the prize pool and the number of GSL tournaments in order to attract the attention and secure enough "star" players from BW era, as well as helping SC2 pro teams establish their footing. All in all, the first year was really their biggest challenge and I think they've managed it well considering the number of subscriptions from overseas - they probably didn't expect that.
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yeah, more foreigners would be awesome
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Who is RNG and why is he able to select who plays against who?
I like this new format a little bit more, well done GOM, as always.
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I wouldn´t start worrying too much about Gom reducing the prize money.
If they really wanted to scale back the 1st thing to decrease would be the amount of content. Operating costs are the 1st thing to be downsclaed when a company is in trouble. We will have to wait and see, for all we know they have some sick special events planned around the saved money, or they are upping the production value.
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On December 11 2011 22:58 Azzur wrote:
I'm confused by your analysis since it seems to show that the amount of prize money paid out for games is going to be reduced?
There will be more games played per season with the same pricemoney. This means average money earned per game is decreasing. One should not forget that a Winners league Bo3 might be 2.5 times more games than single elimination, but the time effort of the player remains almos the same, as they can't do something else on these days anyway.
On December 12 2011 01:00 nufcrulz wrote:
umm your numbers dont show otherwise.. it actually supports the argument.
Revenue per game decreases 21%
Pricemoney decreases 39%
Since we don't know the volume revenue we can only speculate, but it looks like standard business optimization to increase turnover AND maybe increase revenue. It depends on customer reaction to the new pass system and other things.
It does not show GOM in trouble. The increasing production value over the past year actually indicates that they are doing well and have disposable funds to dedicate to a good finals show, a team flat and other luxuries.
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On December 12 2011 16:54 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 22:58 Azzur wrote:
I'm confused by your analysis since it seems to show that the amount of prize money paid out for games is going to be reduced? There will be more games played per season with the same pricemoney. This means average money earned per game is decreasing. One should not forget that a Winners league Bo3 might be 2.5 times more games than single elimination, but the time effort of the player remains almos the same, as they can't do something else on these days anyway. Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 01:00 nufcrulz wrote:
umm your numbers dont show otherwise.. it actually supports the argument. Revenue per game decreases 21% Pricemoney decreases 39% Since we don't know the volume revenue we can only speculate, but it looks like standard business optimization to increase turnover AND maybe increase revenue. It depends on customer reaction to the new pass system and other things. It does not show GOM in trouble. The increasing production value over the past year actually indicates that they are doing well and have disposable funds to dedicate to a good finals show, a team flat and other luxuries.
Well, I don't dispute you when you claim that GOM is not in trouble - in my opinion, they have at least 2012 all planned and budgeted for. What happens in 2013 will depend greatly on their performance in 2012 and ability to attract sponsors and viewers.
However, I feel you are drawing the wrong conclusions with your analysis (i.e. comparing 2012 with 2011). In my view, it clearly shows that GOM is reducing their costs (e.g. prizemoney) and the revenue (from subscription sales). This, in my mind, is them moving to a more sustainable model (contrast to the extravagance of 2011). My evidence that this is extravagance because I compare prizemoney of BW tournaments (which is less and the tournaments is less numerous) and compare with other foreign tournaments as well. NOTE: Even though it's extravagance, it was probably necessary to attract hype and players.
You can point out points to support your theory that GOM is not in trouble (i.e. 2012 must've been planned and budgeted for already), the availability of sponsors, luxuries (e.g. foreign team house), etc, but your numbers analysis doesn't support your argument.
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Don't forget to factor in super tournament + world championship. Super tournament might as well be just a regular GSL season.
While those were never confirmed to be a yearly thing, it did still contribute to 2011 tournaments.
So it went from 9 (or 8 if you don't count WC but count ST) to 5 (no WC or ST in 2012).
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On December 12 2011 17:26 Azzur wrote:
but your numbers analysis doesn't support your argument.
Then the numbers don't support the argument that gom is in trouble either, which is what I tried to show initially. Either way, fine by me. Gom does not seem to be in trouble in any sense and we can all focus on beating a sensible GSTL format into their heads.
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On December 12 2011 16:54 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 22:58 Azzur wrote:
I'm confused by your analysis since it seems to show that the amount of prize money paid out for games is going to be reduced? There will be more games played per season with the same pricemoney. This means average money earned per game is decreasing. One should not forget that a Winners league Bo3 might be 2.5 times more games than single elimination, but the time effort of the player remains almos the same, as they can't do something else on these days anyway. Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 01:00 nufcrulz wrote:
umm your numbers dont show otherwise.. it actually supports the argument. Revenue per game decreases 21% Pricemoney decreases 39% Since we don't know the volume revenue we can only speculate, but it looks like standard business optimization to increase turnover AND maybe increase revenue. It depends on customer reaction to the new pass system and other things. It does not show GOM in trouble. The increasing production value over the past year actually indicates that they are doing well and have disposable funds to dedicate to a good finals show, a team flat and other luxuries.
I don't think the average money per game comparison is that relevant for sc2. If you have more bo3's than previously bo1's that would lead to a reduced number without any real reason why they should get more money for it. Maybe the lenght of the tournament would be more relevant-
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On December 10 2011 15:13 illsick wrote:
only 5 GSL's in 2012 and no WC or super tournament :/
Well, throwing out just more awards to be won doesn't mean there will be more competiton and good play. Think of this way that now each award is worth twice as much, since the players have to play more games at the top of their skill to win them. The finals will be even more suspensful now, and it is now less likely that a person will have issues with getting of a plane 24 hours before their match and still having not actually rested where he was beforehand (HuK v jjakji)
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On December 12 2011 09:53 RifleCow wrote:
Prize money has always never mattered too much for these players. GSL has always been about prestige and popularity of the teams/players. When players wanna make a quick buck that's when they go to foreign tournaments. For other things, like the costs of living, the teamhouse pays for all of that.
I'd strongly disagree with that. Before players knew they could make a fairly decent living by just being in code S. But now with the amount of tournaments going down with the prize pool staying about the same players income will drastically increase. Sponsors are really going to need to step up or many pretty good players will only make around 5kish a year. The top will still make money, but the middle of the pack will suffer. And with Brood War pro's coming in, 2012 will have many more potential players, with less prize pool.
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We'll see about the GSL format change but I do have to say i really liked the format of this season. I still like the 1 month(ish) duration, and the format seemed much more fluid between Code A & S.
We'll see if a 3 month long GSL can hold the attention and excitement of a 1 month long tournament.
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On December 13 2011 01:02 ronpaul012 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 09:53 RifleCow wrote:
Prize money has always never mattered too much for these players. GSL has always been about prestige and popularity of the teams/players. When players wanna make a quick buck that's when they go to foreign tournaments. For other things, like the costs of living, the teamhouse pays for all of that. I'd strongly disagree with that. Before players knew they could make a fairly decent living by just being in code S. But now with the amount of tournaments going down with the prize pool staying about the same players income will drastically increase. Sponsors are really going to need to step up or many pretty good players will only make around 5kish a year. The top will still make money, but the middle of the pack will suffer. And with Brood War pro's coming in, 2012 will have many more potential players, with less prize pool.
And that was still the same exact case in BW, and hell its the exact same case in the foreigner SC2 scene. Making a life out of tourney wins is unsustainable for everybody except the very top. What players want are good showings so that they can get sponsorships
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Wait, so ro12 makes 1,000,000. How much do you make for making it past ro12 and into Code S? S' ro32 money (1,500,000)?
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Don't like the static Code S prize money. Time = Money, twice the time & same money = less money overall in the game.
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On December 13 2011 01:02 ronpaul012 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 09:53 RifleCow wrote:
Prize money has always never mattered too much for these players. GSL has always been about prestige and popularity of the teams/players. When players wanna make a quick buck that's when they go to foreign tournaments. For other things, like the costs of living, the teamhouse pays for all of that. I'd strongly disagree with that. Before players knew they could make a fairly decent living by just being in code S. But now with the amount of tournaments going down with the prize pool staying about the same players income will drastically increase. Sponsors are really going to need to step up or many pretty good players will only make around 5kish a year. The top will still make money, but the middle of the pack will suffer. And with Brood War pro's coming in, 2012 will have many more potential players, with less prize pool.
If the BW pros switch, it'll likely be because their competitions decided to include SC2 or switch to it (a full switch being unlikely). Which either means OGN and them partner up with GOM or GOM has a competitor and it needs to up its game. Either way BW pros switching will be good for SC2, especially SC2 in Korea.
Anyways, I really like the longer format. It's going to be far more digestible especially to newer viewers, and we're going to see some epic storylines. And it more like the Broodwar tournaments now... just wish GSTL was more like proleague though.
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yeah.
now every GSL - Championship means much
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GSL premium ticket is a big big swindle yes? Only 5 seasons for $99 while buying it seperately, it's less than $50? O.O
MIND = BLOWN
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On December 16 2011 10:36 Sableyeah wrote:
GSL premium ticket is a big big swindle yes? Only 5 seasons for $99 while buying it seperately, it's less than $50? O.O
MIND = BLOWN
Mmm, if you scroll to the bottom of the Ticket Info page, you can see the full details, it explains what the extra features you're paying for.
5 Individual Light passes are $14.99 x 5 = $74.95
Meanwhile an annual Light pass is $69.99.
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On December 13 2011 08:50 Logo2010 wrote:
Don't like the static Code S prize money. Time = Money, twice the time & same money = less money overall in the game.
but another way to look at is that the players have to play 1/2 less? But I can understand the frustration since GSL is the only tourney in Korea
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EPT
