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Please make sure to read the statement from Naniwa that is linked in the full article before commenting. |
On December 09 2011 07:05 Sneakyz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:02 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 07:01 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 09 2011 06:53 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:49 pPingu wrote:On December 09 2011 06:46 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:43 farvacola wrote:
Quite frankly, Jason Lake's statement makes coL look petty, Naniwa hwaiting! It definitely sheds some light on why Stephano just walked away from the team. Really?... The situation with stephano was in now way col fault. Jason is a great guy, don't shit on him for no reason Did you read what he said on reddit? "We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not." Which translates to: I don't want to say anything bad, but I'm going to proceed to say that we don't care what our players want. Or he was STRONGLY implying that Naniwa had pissed off the team. Either way, he was getting into a public argument in the very statement where he said he didn't want to. And terse little laws like "whether he approved or not" imply a management style of which I don't approve. I don't see how he said, "We don't care what our players want". That's some pretty crazy extrapolation from something that isn't event hinted at. He does plainly state that Naniwa is not being entirely honest about no future English speaking teammates coming to Korea, I see no problem with calling someone who is lying to make themselves look better provided that is the case, we aren't sure. The second was a pretty clear statement that they were going to remove him from the team and were looking to do so, effectively suggested he was being "kicked out" in a sense. Considering his history, I'm sort of leaning towards Complexity's side but it seems they didn't know what they were getting into despite Odee briefing them on what to expect. All I read was a guy who tried to set himself up on a pedestal but then couldn't resist taking a jab at Naniwa anyway. And given the tone of both of their statements, I'm going to side with Naniwa. Kyle says they were going to send a player "any week now" which doesn't sound terribly concrete. And fine, they're kicking Naniwa off the team. Naniwa had the grace to make a good statement about how he was actually excited and CoL could have just left it at that. Instead he comes in and trolls. It appears as if Naniwa LIED about Complexity and his situation. How you can see it as wrong that Jason was clarifying things is beyond me. And you can be sure Complexity isn't lying how? You will never know the truth regarding things like this.
I don't have any documentation. Perhaps Complexity does, but I doubt they would release it.
Naniwa also appears to have lied about MLG, so I don't know. Maybe MLG and Complexity randomly lied when it comes to Naniwa, or we could look at the common factor here, which is Naniwa.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On December 09 2011 06:53 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 06:49 pPingu wrote:On December 09 2011 06:46 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:43 farvacola wrote:
Quite frankly, Jason Lake's statement makes coL look petty, Naniwa hwaiting! It definitely sheds some light on why Stephano just walked away from the team. Really?... The situation with stephano was in now way col fault. Jason is a great guy, don't shit on him for no reason Did you read what he said on reddit? "We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not." Which translates to: I don't want to say anything bad, but I'm going to proceed to say that we don't care what our players want. Or he was STRONGLY implying that Naniwa had pissed off the team. Either way, he was getting into a public argument in the very statement where he said he didn't want to. And terse little laws like "whether he approved or not" imply a management style of which I don't approve. He really should have just kept his mouth shut there. Or at least not contradicted himself within two sentences.
how does that translate to them not caring on what players want
lake only said that because naniwa said that "they had no plans to send any more of their players here for a long time" when supposedly they were. Also, naniwa's statement made it sound like he took a better offer when he was actually sold,
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Quantic Naniwa actually sounds cooler than Complexity Naniwa, best of luck and hope he doesnt tangle with Destiny : D
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Lol Complexity amazes me.
First off, they came late to the Starcraft scene, so you can't really be too choosy about which players you sign. As long as they produce results, they bring your sponsors recognition.
Say what you will about Naniwa, but he's a world class player who is a legitimate Ace against any team on the planet. Nani is a legit favorite in just about any tournament he enters and at the moment, the only foreigner in Code S.
2nd what part of Naniwa being a headcase did Complexity not understand when they signed him? Did they make any revelations in the past few months?
3rd why would you advertise you don't give a fuck about his opinion and he didn't have a say in the matter? Is that a good decision?
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On December 09 2011 07:07 MooMooMugi wrote:
Quantic Naniwa actually sounds cooler than Complexity Naniwa, best of luck and hope he doesnt tangle with Destiny : D
They're both laidback guys outside the game so I don't see what would be a problem.
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even before i read naniwas statement it was obvious that naniwa wanted a transfer simply because he didnt feel like spending his practice time on educating people far below his level.
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On December 09 2011 06:59 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 06:56 karpo wrote:
What i don't understand is how Complexity's founder can write such posts on reddit. It just feels so unprofessional to me. They aren't a small business anymore, there's alot of money involved yet their PR skills seem so bad both now and with the Stephano deal.
Why not use official channels and clear out confusion before announcing stuff instead of this shit flinging crap in reddit posts? Small business anymore? Yeah, I think a G7 might be aware they aren't small time. Jason Lake knows better than you, me, and everyone on this forum. We aren't in a place to criticize him. Rather disgusting if you ask me, to think that someone outside of the G7 can have such a bold position and not defer to our elders in eSports.
If Jason Lake didn't appreciate what Naniwa said why not add "We're sending Trimaster to korea soon" to their website news about selling Naniwa? Why post it in a forum thread on a site not even fully dedicated to Starcraft? It's just not professional to me, and i don't care much about the "elders in eSports".
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It baffles me that it even matters to people that Naniwa might have lied. What does it change? Everyone and their grandmother seems to know Naniwa's reputation for BM by now, so it's not surprising, and as long as he doesn't pull any more terrible stunts by keeping his mouth shut, and as long as he keeps winning, it doesn't really change anything.
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On December 09 2011 07:06 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:02 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 07:01 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 09 2011 06:53 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:49 pPingu wrote:On December 09 2011 06:46 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:43 farvacola wrote:
Quite frankly, Jason Lake's statement makes coL look petty, Naniwa hwaiting! It definitely sheds some light on why Stephano just walked away from the team. Really?... The situation with stephano was in now way col fault. Jason is a great guy, don't shit on him for no reason Did you read what he said on reddit? "We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not." Which translates to: I don't want to say anything bad, but I'm going to proceed to say that we don't care what our players want. Or he was STRONGLY implying that Naniwa had pissed off the team. Either way, he was getting into a public argument in the very statement where he said he didn't want to. And terse little laws like "whether he approved or not" imply a management style of which I don't approve. I don't see how he said, "We don't care what our players want". That's some pretty crazy extrapolation from something that isn't event hinted at. He does plainly state that Naniwa is not being entirely honest about no future English speaking teammates coming to Korea, I see no problem with calling someone who is lying to make themselves look better provided that is the case, we aren't sure. The second was a pretty clear statement that they were going to remove him from the team and were looking to do so, effectively suggested he was being "kicked out" in a sense. Considering his history, I'm sort of leaning towards Complexity's side but it seems they didn't know what they were getting into despite Odee briefing them on what to expect. All I read was a guy who tried to set himself up on a pedestal but then couldn't resist taking a jab at Naniwa anyway. And given the tone of both of their statements, I'm going to side with Naniwa. Kyle says they were going to send a player "any week now" which doesn't sound terribly concrete. And fine, they're kicking Naniwa off the team. Naniwa had the grace to make a good statement about how he was actually excited and CoL could have just left it at that. Instead he comes in and trolls. It appears as if Naniwa LIED about Complexity and his situation. How you can see it as wrong that Jason was clarifying things is beyond me. Really? Naniwa lied that CoL had no plans to send anyone to Korea and the best Kyle can offer as a rebuttal is "we're sending one any week now." Sorry, that doesn't sound like great evidence. Also, Naniwa has been in Korea by himself for a long time now and clearly hasn't enjoyed himself. It doesn't surprise me that he doesn't find comfort in "just keep waiting an indeterminate number of weeks and we'll send you a buddy." And there's a difference between clarifying and clearly trying to start something.
Erm, I'm pretty sure Drewbie was there for 6 weeks, it's not like he's been alone for an eternity. Provided TriMaster is actually sent to Korea within the next few weeks, there's no reason to believe this is them fumbling around Naniwa's statements to make him look bad, Naniwa doesn't have the greatest history in this regard anyway, it's not like Complexity would have to really try to make him look bad.
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On December 09 2011 07:07 Condor Hero wrote:
Lol Complexity amazes me.
First off, they came late to the Starcraft scene, so you can't really be too choosy about which players you sign. As long as they produce results, they bring your sponsors recognition.
Say what you will about Naniwa, but he's a world class player who is a legitimate Ace against any team on the planet. Nani is a legit favorite in just about any tournament he enters and at the moment, the only foreigner in Code S.
2nd what part of Naniwa being a headcase did Complexity not understand when they signed him? Did they make any revelations in the past few months?
3rd why would you advertise you don't give a fuck about his opinion and he didn't have a say in the matter? Is that a good decision?
There's a reason why EG didn't go after NaNiwa
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On December 09 2011 07:06 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:02 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 07:01 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 09 2011 06:53 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:49 pPingu wrote:On December 09 2011 06:46 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:43 farvacola wrote:
Quite frankly, Jason Lake's statement makes coL look petty, Naniwa hwaiting! It definitely sheds some light on why Stephano just walked away from the team. Really?... The situation with stephano was in now way col fault. Jason is a great guy, don't shit on him for no reason Did you read what he said on reddit? "We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not." Which translates to: I don't want to say anything bad, but I'm going to proceed to say that we don't care what our players want. Or he was STRONGLY implying that Naniwa had pissed off the team. Either way, he was getting into a public argument in the very statement where he said he didn't want to. And terse little laws like "whether he approved or not" imply a management style of which I don't approve. I don't see how he said, "We don't care what our players want". That's some pretty crazy extrapolation from something that isn't event hinted at. He does plainly state that Naniwa is not being entirely honest about no future English speaking teammates coming to Korea, I see no problem with calling someone who is lying to make themselves look better provided that is the case, we aren't sure. The second was a pretty clear statement that they were going to remove him from the team and were looking to do so, effectively suggested he was being "kicked out" in a sense. Considering his history, I'm sort of leaning towards Complexity's side but it seems they didn't know what they were getting into despite Odee briefing them on what to expect. All I read was a guy who tried to set himself up on a pedestal but then couldn't resist taking a jab at Naniwa anyway. And given the tone of both of their statements, I'm going to side with Naniwa. Kyle says they were going to send a player "any week now" which doesn't sound terribly concrete. And fine, they're kicking Naniwa off the team. Naniwa had the grace to make a good statement about how he was actually excited and CoL could have just left it at that. Instead he comes in and trolls. It appears as if Naniwa LIED about Complexity and his situation. How you can see it as wrong that Jason was clarifying things is beyond me. Really? Naniwa lied that CoL had no plans to send anyone to Korea and the best Kyle can offer as a rebuttal is "we're sending one any week now." Sorry, that doesn't sound like great evidence. Also, Naniwa has been in Korea by himself for a long time now and clearly hasn't enjoyed himself. It doesn't surprise me that he doesn't find comfort in "just keep waiting an indeterminate number of weeks and we'll send you a buddy." And there's a difference between clarifying and clearly trying to start something.
Jason Lake says Naniwa knew Trimaster would be coming. Nani said Col said NOBODY was coming for a long time. Seems to be clarifying to me, and obviously one side is lying.
Considering Naniwa is a very skilled player who cannot manage to stay on a team would lead you to believe he has a terrible personality, even if you don't count his past from WC3 etc. Naniwa also lied about MLG, unless you believe him over Sundance.
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584 Posts
Haha, these things always get everyone's knickers in a twist. These threads always guarantee amusement.
Hopefully it's the right move for Naniwa and the team. Good luck! Nani fighting!
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On December 09 2011 07:06 illsick wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 06:53 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:49 pPingu wrote:On December 09 2011 06:46 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:43 farvacola wrote:
Quite frankly, Jason Lake's statement makes coL look petty, Naniwa hwaiting! It definitely sheds some light on why Stephano just walked away from the team. Really?... The situation with stephano was in now way col fault. Jason is a great guy, don't shit on him for no reason Did you read what he said on reddit? "We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not." Which translates to: I don't want to say anything bad, but I'm going to proceed to say that we don't care what our players want. Or he was STRONGLY implying that Naniwa had pissed off the team. Either way, he was getting into a public argument in the very statement where he said he didn't want to. And terse little laws like "whether he approved or not" imply a management style of which I don't approve. He really should have just kept his mouth shut there. Or at least not contradicted himself within two sentences. how does that translate to them not caring on what players want lake only said that because naniwa said that "they had no plans to send any more of their players here for a long time" when supposedly they were. Also, naniwa's statement made it sound like he took a better offer when he was actually sold,
Quantic Gaming really seems to be the better option for Naniwa, he could care less if they were going to drop him anyway or not.
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I'm a bit confused about this statement ''and they had no plans to send any more of their players here for a long time'', since english is not my first language I ask any native english speaker, can't that statement mean both ''they weren't going to send any player over here for the foreseeable future'' aswell as ''they weren't going to keep another player here for a long period of time''?
Because one of those statements is false if Trimaster is indeed coming to korea and Naniwa was aware of it, while the other could still be true.
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On December 09 2011 07:09 mki wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:07 Condor Hero wrote:
Lol Complexity amazes me.
First off, they came late to the Starcraft scene, so you can't really be too choosy about which players you sign. As long as they produce results, they bring your sponsors recognition.
Say what you will about Naniwa, but he's a world class player who is a legitimate Ace against any team on the planet. Nani is a legit favorite in just about any tournament he enters and at the moment, the only foreigner in Code S.
2nd what part of Naniwa being a headcase did Complexity not understand when they signed him? Did they make any revelations in the past few months?
3rd why would you advertise you don't give a fuck about his opinion and he didn't have a say in the matter? Is that a good decision? There's a reason why EG didn't go after NaNiwa
Probably because EG doesn't want pre-written contracts, they want to negotiate their own.
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On December 09 2011 07:10 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:06 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 07:02 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 07:01 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 09 2011 06:53 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:49 pPingu wrote:On December 09 2011 06:46 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:43 farvacola wrote:
Quite frankly, Jason Lake's statement makes coL look petty, Naniwa hwaiting! It definitely sheds some light on why Stephano just walked away from the team. Really?... The situation with stephano was in now way col fault. Jason is a great guy, don't shit on him for no reason Did you read what he said on reddit? "We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not." Which translates to: I don't want to say anything bad, but I'm going to proceed to say that we don't care what our players want. Or he was STRONGLY implying that Naniwa had pissed off the team. Either way, he was getting into a public argument in the very statement where he said he didn't want to. And terse little laws like "whether he approved or not" imply a management style of which I don't approve. I don't see how he said, "We don't care what our players want". That's some pretty crazy extrapolation from something that isn't event hinted at. He does plainly state that Naniwa is not being entirely honest about no future English speaking teammates coming to Korea, I see no problem with calling someone who is lying to make themselves look better provided that is the case, we aren't sure. The second was a pretty clear statement that they were going to remove him from the team and were looking to do so, effectively suggested he was being "kicked out" in a sense. Considering his history, I'm sort of leaning towards Complexity's side but it seems they didn't know what they were getting into despite Odee briefing them on what to expect. All I read was a guy who tried to set himself up on a pedestal but then couldn't resist taking a jab at Naniwa anyway. And given the tone of both of their statements, I'm going to side with Naniwa. Kyle says they were going to send a player "any week now" which doesn't sound terribly concrete. And fine, they're kicking Naniwa off the team. Naniwa had the grace to make a good statement about how he was actually excited and CoL could have just left it at that. Instead he comes in and trolls. It appears as if Naniwa LIED about Complexity and his situation. How you can see it as wrong that Jason was clarifying things is beyond me. Really? Naniwa lied that CoL had no plans to send anyone to Korea and the best Kyle can offer as a rebuttal is "we're sending one any week now." Sorry, that doesn't sound like great evidence. Also, Naniwa has been in Korea by himself for a long time now and clearly hasn't enjoyed himself. It doesn't surprise me that he doesn't find comfort in "just keep waiting an indeterminate number of weeks and we'll send you a buddy." And there's a difference between clarifying and clearly trying to start something. Jason Lake says Naniwa knew Trimaster would be coming. Nani said Col said NOBODY was coming for a long time. Seems to be clarifying to me, and obviously one side is lying. Considering Naniwa is a very skilled player who cannot manage to stay on a team would lead you to believe he has a terrible personality, even if you don't count his past from WC3 etc. Naniwa also lied about MLG, unless you believe him over Sundance.
I don't want to offend Trimaster, but the fact is considering Naniwa's skill level Trimaster is a nobody.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:07 Condor Hero wrote:
Lol Complexity amazes me.
First off, they came late to the Starcraft scene, so you can't really be too choosy about which players you sign. As long as they produce results, they bring your sponsors recognition.
Say what you will about Naniwa, but he's a world class player who is a legitimate Ace against any team on the planet. Nani is a legit favorite in just about any tournament he enters and at the moment, the only foreigner in Code S.
2nd what part of Naniwa being a headcase did Complexity not understand when they signed him? Did they make any revelations in the past few months?
3rd why would you advertise you don't give a fuck about his opinion and he didn't have a say in the matter? Is that a good decision?
you make it sound like coL didn't recognize naniwa is a world class player; they probably did recognize that.
2nd, they probably did make new revelations as they got to know him better behind the scenes (within those few months - they just aquired him). Dignitas did a good job not revealing every detail as to why they didn't re-sign him.
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On December 09 2011 07:11 Blondinbengt wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this statement ''and they had no plans to send any more of their players here for a long time'', since english is not my first language I ask any native english speaker, can't that statement mean both ''they weren't going to send any player over here for the foreseeable future'' aswell as ''they weren't going to keep another player here for a long period of time''?
Because one of those statements is false if Trimaster is indeed coming to korea and Naniwa was aware of it, while the other could still be true.
In english, no I don't think it can mean that, but it's possible that was what he intended to say. Anyway I don't think Naniwa give a shit about what team he's on.
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On December 09 2011 07:14 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:10 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 07:06 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 07:02 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 07:01 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 09 2011 06:53 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:49 pPingu wrote:On December 09 2011 06:46 Klondikebar wrote:On December 09 2011 06:43 farvacola wrote:
Quite frankly, Jason Lake's statement makes coL look petty, Naniwa hwaiting! It definitely sheds some light on why Stephano just walked away from the team. Really?... The situation with stephano was in now way col fault. Jason is a great guy, don't shit on him for no reason Did you read what he said on reddit? "We're sending TriMaster to Korea any week now and Johan is well aware of that. I'm not going to get into a public argument and wish him the very best but this was a one way decision. His contract was being sold (to Quantic or someone else) whether he approved or not." Which translates to: I don't want to say anything bad, but I'm going to proceed to say that we don't care what our players want. Or he was STRONGLY implying that Naniwa had pissed off the team. Either way, he was getting into a public argument in the very statement where he said he didn't want to. And terse little laws like "whether he approved or not" imply a management style of which I don't approve. I don't see how he said, "We don't care what our players want". That's some pretty crazy extrapolation from something that isn't event hinted at. He does plainly state that Naniwa is not being entirely honest about no future English speaking teammates coming to Korea, I see no problem with calling someone who is lying to make themselves look better provided that is the case, we aren't sure. The second was a pretty clear statement that they were going to remove him from the team and were looking to do so, effectively suggested he was being "kicked out" in a sense. Considering his history, I'm sort of leaning towards Complexity's side but it seems they didn't know what they were getting into despite Odee briefing them on what to expect. All I read was a guy who tried to set himself up on a pedestal but then couldn't resist taking a jab at Naniwa anyway. And given the tone of both of their statements, I'm going to side with Naniwa. Kyle says they were going to send a player "any week now" which doesn't sound terribly concrete. And fine, they're kicking Naniwa off the team. Naniwa had the grace to make a good statement about how he was actually excited and CoL could have just left it at that. Instead he comes in and trolls. It appears as if Naniwa LIED about Complexity and his situation. How you can see it as wrong that Jason was clarifying things is beyond me. Really? Naniwa lied that CoL had no plans to send anyone to Korea and the best Kyle can offer as a rebuttal is "we're sending one any week now." Sorry, that doesn't sound like great evidence. Also, Naniwa has been in Korea by himself for a long time now and clearly hasn't enjoyed himself. It doesn't surprise me that he doesn't find comfort in "just keep waiting an indeterminate number of weeks and we'll send you a buddy." And there's a difference between clarifying and clearly trying to start something. Jason Lake says Naniwa knew Trimaster would be coming. Nani said Col said NOBODY was coming for a long time. Seems to be clarifying to me, and obviously one side is lying. Considering Naniwa is a very skilled player who cannot manage to stay on a team would lead you to believe he has a terrible personality, even if you don't count his past from WC3 etc. Naniwa also lied about MLG, unless you believe him over Sundance. I don't want to offend Trimaster, but the fact is considering Naniwa's skill level Trimaster is a nobody.
Yet it still makes Naniwa a liar. (if it is the actual situation)
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EPT
