EPTorb Casting Feedback Thread - Page 28
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Do not derail this thread with the BM controversy. Use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 I will start handing out temp bans for derailing this thread starting page 29. -Mod | ||
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:57 Silvertine wrote: People from outside of America not understanding the weight that the term 'nigger' carries, nothing new. There's nothing innocent or understandable about calling someone a faggot or using gay as an insult. I understand that 'nigger' is completely off limits, even to the point where I would refer to it as 'the N word' in public in the US. But you should also understand that mainstream USA is seen as more forgiving towards open homophobia than Western Europe. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:57 Silvertine wrote: People from outside of America not understanding the weight that the term 'nigger' carries, nothing new. Man there was black people in europe long before a black man ever stepped on the american continent, americans thinking the world starts in the US of A.. Portugal took 3/4 of the slaves to the americas, it's nothing i'm proud, but I understand what the slave word means and what were the circunstances of it, maybe even better then you. The situation shouldn't be any better for the black people outside of USA. Other times, other cultures, people evolve, noways calling "nigger" to a computer screen in a game when he is a video game caster in his private time shouldn't be considered a personal atack to a race, it was a mistake and childish but nothing more. | ||
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Xaoz
Germany146 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:39 OpticalShot wrote: My understanding is that Orb is a relatively well-known public figure. Specifically, he is a caster working for EG. SC2 isn't simply going to grow into a majestic global eSport if the community dismisses the faults of the representatives. In other words, as long as the community defends the offender or dismisses the offences, that's exactly where the level of eSports will stay at. From what I can gather from TL community news and staff moderations, this place is for those that wish to see SC2, other competitive games - and in large - eSports - to grow into a popular, legitimate, and accessible recreational culture. Where's your eSports at? Is it okay to blatantly throw a televised tournament game just because it has no effect in the tournament standings? Is it okay for a public figure to make racist/sexist/homophobic remarks in a public game? Is it okay to make accusatory statements on a broadcast? Is it okay to lie repeatedly to the employer only to apologize when caught without a shadow of doubt? We are all responsible. You choose how eSports will evolve. Choose carefully. I agree. And I have no idea how people can just say it doesn t matter or even defend him. | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:43 hypercube wrote: There's nothing innocent or understandable about calling someone a faggot or using gay as an insult. I understand that 'nigger' is completely off limits, even to the point where I would refer to it as 'the N word' in public in the US. But you should also understand that mainstream USA is seen as more forgiving towards open homophobia than Western Europe. Please, The UK is the most progressive nation out there when it comes to homosexuality and we are a part of western europe. | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:39 OpticalShot wrote: My understanding is that Orb is a relatively well-known public figure. Specifically, he is a caster working for EG. SC2 isn't simply going to grow into a majestic global eSport if the community dismisses the faults of the representatives. In other words, as long as the community defends the offender or dismisses the offences, that's exactly where the level of eSports will stay at. From what I can gather from TL community news and staff moderations, this place is for those that wish to see SC2, other competitive games - and in large - eSports - to grow into a popular, legitimate, and accessible recreational culture. Where's your eSports at? Is it okay to blatantly throw a televised tournament game just because it has no effect in the tournament standings? Is it okay for a public figure to make racist/sexist/homophobic remarks in a public game? Is it okay to make accusatory statements on a broadcast? Is it okay to lie repeatedly to the employer only to apologize when caught without a shadow of doubt? We are all responsible. You choose how eSports will evolve. Choose carefully. Pretty much this. I don't condone the vocabulary of Destiny, Spades, or others that use racial slurs when streaming, which is strange because they swear and make racial comments all day and it glazes past the ears of anyone who is watching the stream. However, Orb says one racial slur and suddenly he is the hot topic on TL. Maybe this is because he is more of a "public" figure, but I still don't get why there is a double standard here. I think anyone who makes these comments should have the same treatment as Orb is currently receiving, and that is harsh criticism from the SC2 community. Seems like anyone who is defending Orb is just stuck inside their little bubble that expects SC2 to forever be a small hub on the online world. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:44 DrN0 wrote: Please, The UK is the most progressive nation out there when it comes to homosexuality and we are a part of western europe. I think he was saying that Western Europe is more progressive. He was saying that the USA forgives open homophobia. | ||
semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 Please re-redirect discussion not related to orb's casting back to that thread. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:44 DrN0 wrote: Please, The UK is the most progressive nation out there when it comes to homosexuality and we are a part of western europe. Read what I said again. I said it's more ok to openly hate on gays in the US than in the UK for example. edit: feel free to answer in the other thread on in PM/ | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
I don't care what you say on your private stream, just don't use any offensive language on casts. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:43 hypercube wrote: There's nothing innocent or understandable about calling someone a faggot or using gay as an insult. I understand that 'nigger' is completely off limits, even to the point where I would refer to it as 'the N word' in public in the US. Jesus Christ... how many people are going to misread and misunderstand my posts in this thread. I said a hell of a lot more understandable and innocent. I have repeatedly said that it's disgusting and unacceptable to call someone a 'faggot'. I was merely pointing out that there is a distinction in severity between calling someone a 'faggot' and calling someone a 'nigger'. On March 09 2012 06:42 DrN0 wrote: Read again I edited, and as I have said oh so many times now you will not truly understand the word until you have been on the receiving end so us trying to speak as if we have authority on the matter and saying it is 'no big deal' is perpuating the problem. Where did I say it was no big deal? It's as if you can't read. I've been arguing against people claiming that it's not that bad. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:26 Zorgaz wrote: How can this topic get so freaking big !? I don't get why these drama threads seem to take over all the forums, please can't you leave it to other sites like reddit? On topic I don't really see the big deal, I agree orb comes out as kind of a douche. But it's ladder, everyone has been frustrated on ladder. I enjoy his casting and will continue to do so.... I'll tell you exactly why. First and foremost, its because everyone has an influence here on the forums, or on Reddit. We have the ability to make our opinions heard and solve (or cause) problems. (E.G. if this happened to a popular sports commentator, I can at most call my friend and talk about it, or send an e-mail or post on some board, won't get nearly the same reaction/effectiveness as this) Secondly of course it's the internet, there is no backlash for complaining and being overly rude. People can be open with whatever they are feeling. This sort of bandwagons on influental sites, Reddit being a good example. | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:46 Klondikebar wrote: I think he was saying that Western Europe is more progressive. He was saying that the USA forgives open homophobia. Right. My bad feel like an idiot now ignore that, my apologies to all for that. | ||
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Dirtysocks
Czech Republic68 Posts
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Dirtysocks
Czech Republic68 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:49 Slardar wrote: I'll tell you exactly why. First and foremost, its because everyone has an influence here on the forums, or on Reddit. We have the ability to make our opinions heard and solve (or cause) problems. (E.G. if this happened to a popular sports commentator, I can at most call my friend and talk about it, or send an e-mail or post on some board, won't get nearly the same reaction/effectiveness as this) Secondly of course it's the internet, there is no backlash for complaining and being overly rude. People can be open with whatever they are feeling. This sort of bandwagons on influental sites, Reddit being a good example. I'll tell you that you can use TL but you are in wrong thread. This is about his casting not streaming personal games. You feel like you need to talk about this on TL, fine there is at least 10 thread about it. People that do now know where to post should be warned and then banned.... | ||
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:49 Silvertine wrote: Jesus Christ... how many people are going to misread and misunderstand my posts in this thread. I said a hell of a lot more understandable and innocent. I have repeatedly said that it's disgusting and unacceptable to call someone a 'faggot'. I was merely pointing out that there is a distinction in severity between calling someone a 'faggot' and calling someone a 'nigger'. Where did I say it was no big deal? It's as if you can't read. I've been arguing against people claiming that it's not that bad. I have nothing against you except you said, 'I await your silly response' so I assumed you were not looking at my points in the lateral sense, and in general I was saying that we really can't speak on the issue with any real gravitas, also AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE WORD IS BAD BUT YOU WILL NEVER TRULY UNDERSTAND IT AS AN INSULT, I dont know why you have such a bone to pick with me and what I have to say, I agree the word should not be said but I also am saying that we can't speak as if we have actual knowlegde of what it is like to be on the end of this abuse. | ||
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Riquiz
Netherlands402 Posts
You give a lot of great information which is really enjoyable to hear while watching. It does indeed lack a bit of colour, like you might not always hype the game up enough for people who do not have enough experience actually playing sc2. But overall, great casting. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:25 pepsimaxibon wrote: + Show Spoiler + from the other thread, which got locked: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This has been buried in Orb's Stream thread so I'm gonna recap here as objectively as possible: Original post on Reddit: ![[image loading]](http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5828/loldamnv.png) link to comments To which Orb originally responds with: Wouldn't be the first or last time someone impersonates me on ladder. Just woke up to see this image on reddit. Gotta love people that see a screenshot with no background/proof/context/anything and just start a witchhunt. Wouldn't be the first or last time for r/starcraft after some scrutiny from Reddit in which they prove it was his account, he edits in: Edit: yep just keep jumping to conclusions that it was me just because it was on my account. I share my account with 3 other people and anyone that knows me at all knows I only play on my "orb" account when I stream. I play on a smurf at all other times. Doesn't matter though, reddit witchhunts never listen to logic. Reddit proceeds to put more heat on, assessing that whoever played on that account had a suspisciously similar playstyle to Orb, played at a Masters level despite not owning their own account, and had his exact hotkey setup. He was also seen to be watching the replay on stream. Orb reacts to this scrutinty with extreme defensiveness, routinely deploying the word "slander" and accusing anyone who disputed his claims of "fabricating infomation". Of all fucking people totalbiscuit, I didn't expect you to.join witchhunts slandering people. For the record, I only ever said the n word once on my stream, and I got defeatured for it on TL (despite featured streamer destiny saying the n word daily on his stream). Since then I have not used the word once on stream.. But please john bain, keep slandering me baselessly. You seem unbelievably determined to slander me. You link to an empty video and pretend it's proof, and then everyone jumps to conclusions and assumes I deleted it. Notice not a single person is going so far in their lies as to say they saw me do it live... not only was it not me but i habent even streamed sc2 since most evil genius. Keep up the baseless slander guys. At about this point, LiveOnThree was airing, SirScoots felt the need to urgently address the situation due to it boiling over on Reddit (even reaching the front page). SirScoots stated: "Jake has said this was not him last night, that he went to bed, that he has a couple of friends who he shared his account with - which obviously he's not supposed to do - and that he woke up to this shit storm. Now, you all can choose to believe Jake or not. We at EG are all going to believe him, but have told him that if we find out that this is not the case, your story does not flush, and this is your behaviour and you continue to act this way, then you will be very, very quickly removed from our world." Soon after, a second Reddit thread turned up. With accusations of multiple counts of almost identical language: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N2EwAh.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P0qs6h.jpg) comments This time, there was evidence enough to incontrovertibly prove it was him.. Despite his attempt to remove the VOD which proved a smoking gun. Some hours into the thread, Orb issued this apology, purely regarding the second incident that he was caught red handed for. At no point does he make a reference to the original incident or apologise for all those who he accused of "slander". Alex Garfield Issued a pre-emptive statement: hey, everyone. alex (ceo of evil geniuses) here. i'll be making a formal statement about this situation later today. i just wanted to assure everyone that we're aware of these allegations, and that we're taking them very, very seriously. there will be ramifications here. their severity is something we're still determining, but there's no doubt that the situation requires action on our part. please try to be patient as we discuss the matter internally. Shortly after which, a third Reddit thread landed which proved his use of racial slurs on stream: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aMiN5.jpg) I'll leave you to make your own judgements. thank you for this summary. | ||
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Korste
United States64 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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