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aviator116
United States820 Posts
On December 03 2011 07:29 MasterBlasterCaster wrote: To be fair, I've heard similar comments from multiple tourny winners. and it is not only terran players that whine. contrary to what most people think. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
White-Ra: 'I'm waiting for it because I can make more special tactics here But at the same time too many spell units and Protoss needs too much gas!! We need some cheaper units for Protoss too.' This is an excellent observation, many people forget about this. | ||
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MadJack
Peru357 Posts
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Jedclark
United Kingdom903 Posts
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
Says this, yet doesn't win any tournaments | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
On December 03 2011 10:17 Jedclark wrote: Cloud... I hope he doesn't quit, since I really enjoy watching his play. I am playing a lot and I won't quit. I think even more people will play with the expansion, no matter how good or bad blizzard makes it. There's way too much money in the scene and I believe many more people will become full time progamers with hots. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On December 03 2011 09:43 H0i wrote: This is an excellent observation, many people forget about this. Yep. I wish Blizzard realised that instead of adding more expensive units. :/ | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On December 03 2011 10:18 awu25 wrote: Cloud: 'I think the expansion will be a mess and blizzard won't be able to balance and control what they are about to do. I have very little expectations and I gave up on sc2 since it seems so many bad players can have decent results by just abusing the gamble aspect of this game.' Says this, yet doesn't win any tournaments I wasn't aware that was a requirement to have an opinion | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On December 03 2011 06:57 Purind wrote: Interesting that he likes the protoss units. With T and Z units, I'm thinking "If they tweak things, it could be neat" but there's absolutely nothing about Protoss I'm looking forward to Well he said protoss changes. The most exciting thing for protoss imo are the new Nexus abilities. Plus the oracle is pretty awesome. I'm with orly in being a little unsure about the terran changes. They definitely have the most boring additions. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
 . Hopefully they get a bit more bold in their changes | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On December 03 2011 10:35 happyness wrote: Well he said protoss changes. The most exciting thing for protoss imo are the new Nexus abilities. Plus the oracle is pretty awesome. I'm with orly in being a little unsure about the terran changes. They definitely have the most boring additions. No, Terran actually has the best. They are solid, non gimmicky, reliable unit designs apart from the shredder thingy. You can balance them easy, they have a set role what to do, when to build, and against what. Protoss and Zerg have way over the top, "cool looking" (DB design philosophy) gimmicky shit. How do you want to balance the replicator? Nexus recall in conjunction with Warpgate? The Viper with its hook and d-web, burrow moving banelings and charging ultralisks? | ||
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hasuterrans
United States614 Posts
On December 03 2011 10:22 aTnClouD wrote: I am playing a lot and I won't quit. I think even more people will play with the expansion, no matter how good or bad blizzard makes it. There's way too much money in the scene and I believe many more people will become full time progamers with hots. Cloud many people agree with you but this thread will bring mostly haters. I'm sure a lot of sc2 players who didn't play bw will probably get defensive and just shit on you to defend their game. This is kind of sad but it's the #1 reason whenever bw is mentioned in balance/game design/strategy threads it turns into a flame festival and you get called a "bw elitist." Ignoring all of that you're completely right about the power of AoE abilities in sc2. Blizzard could mitigate this by making these units require more micro but they seem intent on doing exactly the opposite. "Oh, infestors running ahead of zerg armies and getting killed by the zerg player has poor control? We'll just reduce their speed." Recall that one of the main reasons zergs had so much trouble in the first place before the massive fungal change (to primarily an AoE attack) was that protoss armies were just out-dpsing zerg armies in the mid-game and there wasn't shit a zerg player could do. If a protoss just camped all game on 3 bases they would crush a zerg regardless of how ahead the zerg player was economically. Really what we're seeing is Blizzard play whack-a-mole with fundamental issues in the game design. | ||
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UndoneJin
United States438 Posts
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Sergio1992
Italy522 Posts
Sorta like when LiquidJinro said that protoss are stronger than terran in early and late game, and people were saying him to play better, and that if he didn't have a positive mind, that state of mind would have fucked him up. Cool that there are people who criticize how liquidjinro play. If I was him I would have said them "oh, if you can do better come to mlg".. I think that if you wish to criticize someone personally, like most of you did, you should be better than him, unless you are a fool, and a lot of people seems to be fools. Anyway, I'm looking forward for hots. I don't have a opinion right now. This game is a beta, how could have I one? | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
"you wanna harass? build oracle, its built only for that" fucking stupid, hope they remove units like that. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On December 03 2011 10:45 Elefanto wrote: No, Terran actually has the best. They are solid, non gimmicky, reliable unit designs apart from the shredder thingy. You can balance them easy, they have a set role what to do, when to build, and against what. Protoss and Zerg have way over the top, "cool looking" (DB design philosophy) gimmicky shit. How do you want to balance the replicator? Nexus recall in conjunction with Warpgate? The Viper with its hook and d-web, burrow moving banelings and charging ultralisks? I agree that the replicator is really dumb. And I am doubtful about the burrow movement for banes and charging ultralisks. Recall might be broken, but I still really like the idea. Was the defiler gimmicky? Or the lurker? The viper and swarmhost are no more gimmicky than those two units, and I think they add roles and diversity that zerg needs badly (and I think that they are both by far the best additions in HotS). The hook for the Viper looks ridiculous, but I think it might be good for picking apart the deathball we see too often. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On December 03 2011 07:24 Genie1 wrote: Hmm a divide in the community could happen if the game isn't balanced enough and I would have to agree with some of the pros about there concerns as it will change the metagame entirely and will have to learn new strategies that work since the old ones won't always work. I'm worried about this coming from the call of duty community, that's exactly what happened to the COD series now I'm not comparing blizzard to activision/infinity ward/treyarch but blizzard really needs to careful about how they go about HoTS, I think it might have been a mistake for them to preview all these new units without really knowing how they will affect the game yet, obviously they wanted to show us something, but it's produced a ton of doubt in the community hopefully they're at least trying to make it as balanced and non-gimmicky as possible | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On December 03 2011 11:08 happyness wrote: Was the defiler gimmicky? Or the lurker? The viper and swarmhost are no more gimmicky than those two units, and I think they add roles and diversity that zerg needs badly (and I think that they are both by far the best additions in HotS). The hook for the Viper looks ridiculous, but I think it might be good for picking apart the deathball we see too often. I said nothing about the Swarmhost. The Viper is bad because of the synergies with the other units. The hook is completely retarded to say the least. AOE currently in the game is easy to use and extremely strong. The Viper flies, and it adds so much power and combinations that can't be balanced (infestor+viper+broodlord/ultraling) for instance. BL / Infestor is already by far the most cost efficient composition there is, because of the chemistry of their abilities. Zerg was originally designed to be ineffective and "swarm" their enemies with sheer unit masses, that's the only way to balance Zerg around injects. Now they are going to make Zerg really really cost efficient with their casters, in addition to their unrivaled macro mechanics. How on earth do you want to balance that? It will add the same fucking dilemma Protoss has currently. Protoss has to be balanced around Warpgate, so their units suck, and their units have to be weak early, and aoe / casters have to make up for it in the later game by being extremely efficient. Zerg units suck because of Injects, so their economy has to make up for it. It can't work without breaking the game. You would have to make Zerg basic units completely worthless so they won't get to strong with those abilities, but that would make them even more fragile early on. I can't see it working. | ||
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