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On November 17 2011 09:31 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:57 snailz wrote:On November 17 2011 08:45 ClaytonBigsby wrote:
Why would TL be picking another zerg? Sheth is pretty decent.
What TL really needs is a good terran, While Jinro and TLO are still trying their best.. they are just not good enough anymore (I still have a bit of hope for Jinro!) what did i just read... Jinro is the fucking boss, period. Can't even win a single TvP while other Terrans getting it easily lol. His TvT is all about hellions opening, TvZ isn't special.
so hes in a slump vs protoss lately.. wats your point? its sad b'cos there are plenty of players who didnt live up to hype and make it to pool play at MLG (stephanio) that are getting a free pass but a proven 2x ro4 gsl player like jinro gets written off over a few unlucky games.. people said the same thing about huk and time and time he proved the haters wrong, they said the same about drewbie.. machine.. incontrol the list goes on.. i know theres a lot of competition and envy but esports is never going to grow if the top players are universaly hated and attacked like this..
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I'm hoping Artosis and liquid is trolling us, and it actually turns out to be some crazy macro terran like TheSTC
edit: forgot fin is on ogs too, liquid'fin how sweet would that be ?
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On November 17 2011 16:08 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 15:25 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On November 17 2011 15:22 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 15:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On November 17 2011 13:07 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 12:45 Oreo7 wrote:On November 17 2011 09:17 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 09:07 Oreo7 wrote:On November 17 2011 08:59 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 08:52 Juanald wrote:
[quote]
maybe tl has taken note of the amount of balance whine coming from sheth lately and started seeking a more confident zerg. i disagree with u about jinro hes just had bad luck lately in the GSL... give the guy a break jinro is not even a midtier foreigner anymore. he's like barely better than low tier foreigners based on his MLG performances. I think you underestimate him, he almost broke into code a through quals this past time round. People underestimated him this time last year and now they're doing it again. notable foreigners he's beaten in the last 3 months: idra in a groupstage that didn't even matter for anything since idra was advancing anyways (and won the tourney to boot) "notable" foreigners he's lost to in the last 3 months: trimaster whitera vibe qxc kiwi elfi jim morrow attero sase so unless jinro has massively improved i don't think advancing in code a is realistic It is realistic as he lost 2-1 in the finals of his code a bracket. You are bringing a huge amount of bias to the table, demonstrating this by dismissing his wins as irrelevant or unrealistic and emphasizing his losses unfairly. You list losses he's taken in NASL but none of his wins etc. You're either trolling or dumb. he's beaten sjow twice, but aside from him? gerbil, whiplash, inka, syckness and softball are not "notable." they are not "low tier" foreigners. they are not even remotely relevant on the international scene. you can't seriously use those victories as evidence that he will succeed in code A. he lost in the finals of the code a qualifier, not code a. maybe i wasn't specific enough; i think he is not going to advance past the ro32 if by some off chance he lucks his way into code a, which is a statement backed up by his atrocious results rather than wishful thinking. I don't think you've paid much attention to the Code A qualifiers...for a long time, code A qualifiers have arguably been harder than code A itself. Look at players like DRG or Puma that never managed to get through code A qualifiers. ...wouldn't that mean it'd be even more unlikely for jinro to make it in? Did you not follow Code A Qualifiers/Team Liquid/this conversation and realize that Jinro was one game away from making it in? The difficulty of Code A qualifiers points out how noteworthy of an achievement it is that Jinro was one game away from qualifying. so your argument is that because jinro was one game away from qualifying for code a, his skill is comparable to DRG or puma, which is supported by his results in other tournaments, and he'll succeed in code a.
Now you're just blatantly making logical fallacies. My argument, as said outright in both of my posts before (but it apparently bears repeating for you), is that Jinro made a noteworthy achievement by making it one game from qualifying in Code A.
Read those words carefully. Nowhere do I assume that he'll suddenly "succeed in code a." Nowhere do I say his skill is outright "comparable" directly to those other players. You try to put words in my mouth by making this logical fallacy of direct player comparisons, but you fail to understand that player skill is a non-transitive property when applied to tournaments.
Unfortunately, you're also failing to understand what statements are actually addressed towards what. The bigger picture being disputed here is the claim that "Jinro is not even a midtier foreigner." You're going on this random tangent trying to shift your advocacy to "Jinro won't do well in Code A." Even so-called toptier foreigners (like Naniwa) don't do well in Code A, so your point is moot. The mere fact that Jinro has remained middling in NASL for both seasons (with wins against those such as Sjow and Socke) automatically qualify him as (by definition) middle-tier, at the least.
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On November 17 2011 16:53 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 16:08 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 15:25 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On November 17 2011 15:22 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 15:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On November 17 2011 13:07 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 12:45 Oreo7 wrote:On November 17 2011 09:17 rauk wrote:On November 17 2011 09:07 Oreo7 wrote:On November 17 2011 08:59 rauk wrote:
[quote]
jinro is not even a midtier foreigner anymore. he's like barely better than low tier foreigners based on his MLG performances. I think you underestimate him, he almost broke into code a through quals this past time round. People underestimated him this time last year and now they're doing it again. notable foreigners he's beaten in the last 3 months: idra in a groupstage that didn't even matter for anything since idra was advancing anyways (and won the tourney to boot) "notable" foreigners he's lost to in the last 3 months: trimaster whitera vibe qxc kiwi elfi jim morrow attero sase so unless jinro has massively improved i don't think advancing in code a is realistic It is realistic as he lost 2-1 in the finals of his code a bracket. You are bringing a huge amount of bias to the table, demonstrating this by dismissing his wins as irrelevant or unrealistic and emphasizing his losses unfairly. You list losses he's taken in NASL but none of his wins etc. You're either trolling or dumb. he's beaten sjow twice, but aside from him? gerbil, whiplash, inka, syckness and softball are not "notable." they are not "low tier" foreigners. they are not even remotely relevant on the international scene. you can't seriously use those victories as evidence that he will succeed in code A. he lost in the finals of the code a qualifier, not code a. maybe i wasn't specific enough; i think he is not going to advance past the ro32 if by some off chance he lucks his way into code a, which is a statement backed up by his atrocious results rather than wishful thinking. I don't think you've paid much attention to the Code A qualifiers...for a long time, code A qualifiers have arguably been harder than code A itself. Look at players like DRG or Puma that never managed to get through code A qualifiers. ...wouldn't that mean it'd be even more unlikely for jinro to make it in? Did you not follow Code A Qualifiers/Team Liquid/this conversation and realize that Jinro was one game away from making it in? The difficulty of Code A qualifiers points out how noteworthy of an achievement it is that Jinro was one game away from qualifying. so your argument is that because jinro was one game away from qualifying for code a, his skill is comparable to DRG or puma, which is supported by his results in other tournaments, and he'll succeed in code a. Now you're just blatantly making logical fallacies. My argument, as said outright in both of my posts before (but it apparently bears repeating for you), is that Jinro made a noteworthy achievement by making it one game from qualifying in Code A. Read those words carefully. Nowhere do I assume that he'll suddenly "succeed in code a." Nowhere do I say his skill is outright "comparable" directly to those other players. You try to put words in my mouth by making this logical fallacy of direct player comparisons, but you fail to understand that player skill is a non-transitive property when applied to tournaments. Unfortunately, you're also failing to understand what statements are actually addressed towards what. The bigger picture being disputed here is the claim that "Jinro is not even a midtier foreigner." You're going on this random tangent trying to shift your advocacy to "Jinro won't do well in Code A." Even so-called toptier foreigners (like Naniwa) don't do well in Code A, so your point is moot. The mere fact that Jinro has remained middling in NASL for both seasons (with wins against those such as Sjow and Socke) automatically qualify him as (by definition) middle-tier, at the least.
you're the one who brought in the difficulty of code a qualifiers and mentioned that puma and DRG never made it through. the clear implication is that jinro is comparable to those two players.
also, you are the one who cut into my argument with oreo7 that i was merely "underestimating" jinro because he did well in qualifiers. i said " i think [jinro] is not going to advance past the ro32 if by some off chance he lucks his way into code a, which is a statement backed up by his atrocious results rather than wishful thinking." which is where you interjected with your "code a is tough, so jinro is actually pretty good" thing, so i think it's pretty reasonable to assume that you and i are discussing jinro's chances of succeeding in code a.
and on the point of jinro being a mid-tier foreigner (which i wasn't discussing with you to begin with), i don't think two series wins vs sjow and socke are enough to say jinro is in form; his recent history of many series losses to terrible players is far more indicative of his skill.
also it's not a "logical fallacy" the term you're looking for is "strawman" because i'm deliberately misrepresenting your argument
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Whoooooops!!!
Ah well, Awesome to see Zenio on Liquid =p (If TRUE)
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you're the one who brought in the difficulty of code a qualifiers and mentioned that puma and DRG never made it through. the clear implication is that jinro is comparable to those two players.
I only need to read this and smell your cry to make drama.
It's a good example of how difficult it was to actualy get into code A, if those great players have trouble with it then hell so would Jinro.
That is in no way saying Jinro is on DRG or Puma's level of play, it only shows how difficult it is for great players to get trough.
I also think Jinro's play is actualy better these days then it was when he made ro4 at GSL, he improved, but so did every one else, wich make it seem he's o so slumping.
He will be back, good players always find themselfs and Jinro is a damn fine player.
Any way back to OP.
After seeing F slasher last night i am 100 procent sure it's Zenio haha.
Your a good troll but a bad lier Hot Bid ;p
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There's been a lot of players that's been written off as "bad" before suddenly being in Code S/Code A winning a lot of games. Just look at this months gsl and how some of the players left was regarded 2-3 months ago. I don't know if Jinro can ever get back to the status he was but it's a bit annoying that people constantly write off players just because they are not showing results atm.
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On November 17 2011 17:56 nam nam wrote:
There's been a lot of players that's been written off as "bad" before suddenly being in Code S/Code A winning a lot of games. Just look at this months gsl and how some of the players left was regarded 2-3 months ago. I don't know if Jinro can ever get back to the status he was but it's a bit annoying that people constantly write off players just because they are not showing results atm.
Well, these players would still be bad if they didn't qualify for Code A/S. Tournament results are the main factor of judging player's skill. Jinro ain't showing results atm? He isn't showing them at all, same goes with Haypro and TLO. Actually the only TL players that do are Ret, Sheth and Hero. That's kinda like a mother who comes to school to talk to her kid's teacher. Teacher says that kid is terrible and gets the worst grades in class. Mother is like "omg, but my kid is so smart!". Yep, she surely believes it, but FFS, he is failing everything and nobody cares is he is smart or not, he needs to get results that proove it.
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On November 17 2011 18:48 CDR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 17:56 nam nam wrote:
There's been a lot of players that's been written off as "bad" before suddenly being in Code S/Code A winning a lot of games. Just look at this months gsl and how some of the players left was regarded 2-3 months ago. I don't know if Jinro can ever get back to the status he was but it's a bit annoying that people constantly write off players just because they are not showing results atm. Well, these players would still be bad if they didn't qualify for Code A/S. Tournament results are the main factor of judging player's skill. Jinro ain't showing results atm? He isn't showing them at all, same goes with Haypro and TLO. Actually the only TL players that do are Ret, Sheth and Hero. That's kinda like a mother who comes to school to talk to her kid's teacher. Teacher says that kid is terrible and gets the worst grades in class. Mother is like "omg, but my kid is so smart!". Yep, she surely believes it, but FFS, he is failing everything and nobody cares is he is smart or not, he needs to get results that proove it.
That's a terrible analogy.
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Artosis reads reddit, so he probably just saw the title of this post and thought it was confirmed already.
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On November 17 2011 18:48 CDR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 17:56 nam nam wrote:
There's been a lot of players that's been written off as "bad" before suddenly being in Code S/Code A winning a lot of games. Just look at this months gsl and how some of the players left was regarded 2-3 months ago. I don't know if Jinro can ever get back to the status he was but it's a bit annoying that people constantly write off players just because they are not showing results atm. Well, these players would still be bad if they didn't qualify for Code A/S. Tournament results are the main factor of judging player's skill. Jinro ain't showing results atm? He isn't showing them at all, same goes with Haypro and TLO. Actually the only TL players that do are Ret, Sheth and Hero. That's kinda like a mother who comes to school to talk to her kid's teacher. Teacher says that kid is terrible and gets the worst grades in class. Mother is like "omg, but my kid is so smart!". Yep, she surely believes it, but FFS, he is failing everything and nobody cares is he is smart or not, he needs to get results that proove it.
o0 oh that's such a bad analogy makes it actually kinda funny haha.
But what if the kid already proved to be top of his class before eh ... like let's say 2x top 4 in freaking GSL.
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On November 17 2011 19:01 Lysanias wrote:
o0 oh that's such a bad analogy makes it actually kinda funny haha.
But what if the kid already proved to be top of his class before eh ... like let's say 2x top 4 in freaking GSL.
If the kid proved to be top of his class before and his grades now are terrible he still failes, because nobody cares about his previous results. Maybe he stopped learning, maybe he is doing drugs, maybe he has fallen in love and is depressed but still, nobody cares if his results are terrible.
When did Jinro get to top4 GSL? January and March? It's fucking November, almost 9 months later, nobody will call him a top or mid tier player for that.
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On November 17 2011 16:22 Juanald wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:31 tuho12345 wrote:On November 17 2011 08:57 snailz wrote:On November 17 2011 08:45 ClaytonBigsby wrote:
Why would TL be picking another zerg? Sheth is pretty decent.
What TL really needs is a good terran, While Jinro and TLO are still trying their best.. they are just not good enough anymore (I still have a bit of hope for Jinro!) what did i just read... Jinro is the fucking boss, period. Can't even win a single TvP while other Terrans getting it easily lol. His TvT is all about hellions opening, TvZ isn't special. so hes in a slump vs protoss lately.. wats your point? its sad b'cos there are plenty of players who didnt live up to hype and make it to pool play at MLG (stephanio) that are getting a free pass but a proven 2x ro4 gsl player like jinro gets written off over a few unlucky games.. people said the same thing about huk and time and time he proved the haters wrong, they said the same about drewbie.. machine.. incontrol the list goes on.. i know theres a lot of competition and envy but esports is never going to grow if the top players are universaly hated and attacked like this..
when people sucked balls at the game, he made ro4 twice.
not saying he isn't good, but your argumentation is shit.
that being said, i hope jinro can compete with the best, seems like hes slipping even when he tries. IMO he never got worse, he never got into a slump, everyone else just improved far more than he did. this is what no one seems to realize when talking about jinro's 'slump'
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On November 17 2011 16:22 Juanald wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:31 tuho12345 wrote:On November 17 2011 08:57 snailz wrote:On November 17 2011 08:45 ClaytonBigsby wrote:
Why would TL be picking another zerg? Sheth is pretty decent.
What TL really needs is a good terran, While Jinro and TLO are still trying their best.. they are just not good enough anymore (I still have a bit of hope for Jinro!) what did i just read... Jinro is the fucking boss, period. Can't even win a single TvP while other Terrans getting it easily lol. His TvT is all about hellions opening, TvZ isn't special. so hes in a slump vs protoss lately.. wats your point? its sad b'cos there are plenty of players who didnt live up to hype and make it to pool play at MLG (stephanio) that are getting a free pass but a proven 2x ro4 gsl player like jinro gets written off over a few unlucky games.. people said the same thing about huk and time and time he proved the haters wrong, they said the same about drewbie.. machine.. incontrol the list goes on.. i know theres a lot of competition and envy but esports is never going to grow if the top players are universaly hated and attacked like this..
That.. wasn't even an attack at all and I saw no hate from his post whatsoever lol.
While Huk did prove the haters wrong, the other players have yet to step up. All we fans can do is keep cheering/supporting our players but there's nothing wrong with talking about what's been going on lately.
^also what that guy said. In Starcraft if you fall behind even a little it's very hard to catch up with all the competition that's out there.
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On November 17 2011 19:17 nath wrote:
that being said, i hope jinro can compete with the best, seems like hes slipping even when he tries. IMO he never got worse, he never got into a slump, everyone else just improved far more than he did. this is what no one seems to realize when talking about jinro's 'slump'
Jinro doesn't appear to have the APM to hang with the very best because he is playing the most APM intensive race, and he was really just far ahead of everyone else when the game turned from 1 base play into macro games (he was basically the only terran that was doing macro oriented style at that time).
Now though, everyone is doing macro oriented styles, and he has fallen behind because he seems to not be able to mechanically handle the extreme requirement for APM at the very highest level.
Well, or I could be wrong, it just seems that way to me.
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His liquid debut will be on his code a match monday! :DDDDDDDD
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On November 17 2011 16:22 Lavi wrote:
I'm hoping Artosis and liquid is trolling us, and it actually turns out to be some crazy macro terran like TheSTC
edit: forgot fin is on ogs too, liquid'fin how sweet would that be ?
Not as sweet as Liquid'TheBody, but still pretty sweet.
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I don't like Zenio, he look scary and did the frony look to SEn. 
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EPT
