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On November 09 2011 17:50 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
she probably works for the travel agency and was a guarantor for the tickets thats why they could get the tickets without the full payment upfront.
the 200,000 out of 715,000 is probably the downpayment.
again if thats the case you can see how stupid it would be to put the responsibility of that on herself. I do not understand that to be the common way of business for travel agents. "Hey you pay 25% and if you don't pay the other 75% i'll cover it!!" again makes no sense. and its frankly insulting that donations would be requested. starting to think there alot more behind this than just one idiot.
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On November 09 2011 17:19 Dox wrote:I've just updated my blog with this: Show nested quote +Okay just an update, this is really quite serious. I know it was announced several hours ago that Gus was on his way to the hotel to sort things out, but the travel expenses are still outstanding.This is a message from Amanda who is possibly facing jail if this is not resolved imminently: I issued a total of php 715,000 worth of tickets. 200,000 has been paid, so the outstanding debt is close to php 516,000. Told gunrun already and like im really hoping people in the community can help as being jailed is a possibility for me. I am connected to a travel agency that is why. This needs to be RESOLVED before someone goes to jail.
Who would seriously give anyone any money that was even tangentially related to this? It could all be another scam. Donations? Man if you're that generous with your money you should go be giving crack addicts 10s on the street corner. God bless anyone that wants to give of themselves to try to fix this for someone else.
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Oh My:
I don't think he realizes how worse off he makes himself look.
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On November 09 2011 17:58 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 17:19 Dox wrote:I've just updated my blog with this: Okay just an update, this is really quite serious. I know it was announced several hours ago that Gus was on his way to the hotel to sort things out, but the travel expenses are still outstanding.This is a message from Amanda who is possibly facing jail if this is not resolved imminently: I issued a total of php 715,000 worth of tickets. 200,000 has been paid, so the outstanding debt is close to php 516,000. Told gunrun already and like im really hoping people in the community can help as being jailed is a possibility for me. I am connected to a travel agency that is why. This needs to be RESOLVED before someone goes to jail. Who would seriously give anyone any money that was even tangentially related to this? It could all be another scam. Donations? Man if you're that generous with your money you should go be giving crack addicts 10s on the street corner. God bless anyone that wants to give of themselves to try to fix this for someone else.
I understand your skepticism, but at the same time, this is the larger SEA and SC2 communities trying to make sure there are no serious consequences to those that were merely doing their job. Sure, maybe they made a mistake, but from what they knew at the moment, this was just business (I mean, Gus "promised" the money).
Though I do agree with your reservation overall. Gotta be careful when money gets involved.
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On November 09 2011 15:39 Dox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 15:21 greatZERG wrote:On November 09 2011 14:42 YoonYJ wrote:On November 09 2011 14:40 greatZERG wrote:On November 09 2011 09:29 youngminii wrote:
I'm not gonna lie. This is what happens when you invest in SEA, for SC2 anyway. It's just not worth it, I'm not trying to be racist or anything but the scene over here is stupidly far behind the rest of the world. This doesn't apply to all games obviously.
Also, I got my pitchfork ready, let's get this show on the road. Thanks for insulting all the people who've put in effort over the years to run national events and international qualifiers in SEA. We really shouldn't have bothered really You are right. Maybe it isn't the smartest investment in terms of selfish gain, but in the long run issues like this only benefit the SEA e-sports community. It has radically grown already, and will only further do so. I know you quoted me but replied to youngminii but I thought I'd respond anyway. The problem with the current SEA scene is that it's actually a lot smaller than it used to be. Back in the day WCG, ESWC, ACON, WGT were all huge here with a lot of sponsors and money to go around. Our biggest problem now is generating interest and showing that that interest can be converted into commercial interest for would-be sponsors. The tragedy of this tournament, for me at least, is having to explain to potential supports that this is definitely not the norm in SEA. That being said we have an awesome scene at the moment and now that we're recovering a bit GFC-wise, we should see a lot more room for companies to throw some money our way. I vote for fireworks on Sydney Harbor again :D I actually have to disagree with you there. I organised many of the events you listed and each time we suffered a severe financial deficit because we had to bite the bullet and accept that sponsors weren't willing to provide funding. I honestly feel we're on the precipice of our first legitimate boom during Q3/Q4 of 2012. That's my goal, anyway.
You know who this is? 
I agree that we had financial problems in the later years especially WCG (post any involvement by myself) but I think for a while there, especially when Samsung throwing money at it (around BDI 2003) it was looking a lot better than it is now. My only experience from ESWC/WCG local qualifiers was that it's definitely do-able here but not profitable. That's why it's always been up to people solely invested in the scene rather than a profit to put the effort in to make events.
edit: Just to clarify when I'm talking the e-sports boom I meant the 2002+ Counter-Strike boom, I don't think we've had a big enough RTS community for an RTS-led e-sports boom until now.
I'd like to see how Aus/SEA handles what you are expecting to be a 'boom' and who is going to actually pay for it. We've definitely poisoned the IPL well at least in the short-term I think..cough..MLG SEA regionals 2012
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One thing about the SEA community is that because of our relatively small size, we are rather close-knit cos we do know a majority of the pple in the community, and alot of us volunteer our time and money into the scene, best example being Derek "Dox" Redball who sponsors and runs Dox Cup himself. Alot of us SEA community pple will try and help out however and where-ever we can
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Well, that really reassure me of that Gus fellow.
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On November 09 2011 18:02 orz.fail wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 17:58 SimDawg wrote:On November 09 2011 17:19 Dox wrote:I've just updated my blog with this: Okay just an update, this is really quite serious. I know it was announced several hours ago that Gus was on his way to the hotel to sort things out, but the travel expenses are still outstanding.This is a message from Amanda who is possibly facing jail if this is not resolved imminently: I issued a total of php 715,000 worth of tickets. 200,000 has been paid, so the outstanding debt is close to php 516,000. Told gunrun already and like im really hoping people in the community can help as being jailed is a possibility for me. I am connected to a travel agency that is why. This needs to be RESOLVED before someone goes to jail. Who would seriously give anyone any money that was even tangentially related to this? It could all be another scam. Donations? Man if you're that generous with your money you should go be giving crack addicts 10s on the street corner. God bless anyone that wants to give of themselves to try to fix this for someone else. I understand your skepticism, but at the same time, this is the larger SEA and SC2 communities trying to make sure there are no serious consequences to those that were merely doing their job. Sure, maybe they made a mistake, but from what they knew at the moment, this was just business (I mean, Gus "promised" the money). Though I do agree with your reservation overall. Gotta be careful when money gets involved.
You gotta get more than people asking for donations. Get Torch or Gunrun or someone trusted in the community to vouch for this and maybe you can get donations going (and preferably all of them together saying the same thing). Otherwise it's so shady it won't hold water with anyone, at least I hope not. Maybe everyone is blind here, though.
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On November 09 2011 17:58 ultramafia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 17:50 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
she probably works for the travel agency and was a guarantor for the tickets thats why they could get the tickets without the full payment upfront.
the 200,000 out of 715,000 is probably the downpayment. again if thats the case you can see how stupid it would be to put the responsibility of that on herself. I do not understand that to be the common way of business for travel agents. "Hey you pay 25% and if you don't pay the other 75% i'll cover it!!" again makes no sense. and its frankly insulting that donations would be requested. starting to think there alot more behind this than just one idiot.
I'm also a bit skeptical, it's a bit weird asking for donations from the community. If she is in trouble the first thing she should do is get a lawyer and sue Gus, there's plently of evidence just on the internet alone!
This whole mess reminds me of something you'd read about on 419 eater, I really hope the scumbag gets caught though and locked up!
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After seeing that tweet this Gus guy is just out to incriminate himself and look stupid.
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On November 09 2011 12:36 lee365 wrote:
Well this sucks, the Philippines gets a bad image and Gus gets 13k. I hope he gets caught and gets hit with a spoon soon.
Im sure and I can really only hope that anyone with a properly functioning brain wouldn't judge a country based off of the actions of some degenerate scum. I have met some members of AZK as well, they are nice guys for the most part. Bottom line: bad people exist everywhere.
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someone front sc2sea chat I think proposed the most proper solution.
yongming: "get gus to borrow money under his name. he pays amanda to settle her debt. and the debt comes under his name."
It just hard to swallow for me that Amanda signed for every single one of those tickets without even considering how much they were in case Gus failed on his end. This is reality and not a fairy tale. Not meaning to be harsh but I'll paste my post on the other thread here.
"1. The problem with the issue with Amanda is its doubtful she has a legally binding contract that states that Gus is the one that is assigned to pay the obligations and that she is merely a representative.
2. They most likely are not legally registered as a corporation or group with the government, which means the heirarchy of manager, travel agent, staff etc can be something that is denied and claimed as heresay if it were to reach court.
3. If ever she has a document that states such, I doubt it is a notarized contract but simply an agreement that is most likely a photocopy only and not a certified true copy. (She trusted in Gus too much)
4. I really have trouble understanding and comprehending how in the world Amanda willingly signed for 700k php worth of travel tickets as a guarantor without expressly writing that Gus is also party to it. I mean, the statement of Gus that he didn't have credit card to present for the rooms was already weird to begin with. (Credit card companies actually sometimes dole out cards eventhough you don't apply for them here in the Philippines so I doubt Gus doesn't have even 1 - which also weirds me out that Clide didn't find that suspucious).
We have a saying here in the Philippines: "Walang maloloko kung walang magpapaloko" (No one will be tricked if no one lets themselves be tricked)
I feel sorry for Amanda, Clive and the rest of the guys who stepped up to make it work but now it seems like Gus didn't really present himself or any company under his name (as a proprietor) to front (Such as an event organizing company/body) for the whole thing and he used various individuals and had non-recorded verbal arrangements with some of them."
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I find it absolutely beyond explanation how someone who is a part of an e-sport event in a major (albeit negative) way, does not know the basic internet 101's.
While there are a ton of people who practically have really low internet etiquette here (I don't really want to elaborate, but most of my countrymen must have an idea of what I mean), how stupid must he be to think that the starcraft community would be one of them. ugh.
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my thoughts concerning the debt.
gus should loan money from a bank or any source. preferably with a legal binding loan agreement.
use the money to pay amanda so she can pay for the tickets in full.
amanda's debts is cleared and relieved of her debt and involvement.
while gus has his own debt to deal with whoever he borrowed from.
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On November 09 2011 18:13 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
my thoughts concerning the debt.
gus should loan money from a bank or any source. preferably with a legal binding loan agreement.
use the money to pay amanda so she can pay for the tickets in full.
amanda's debts is cleared and relieved of her debt and involvement.
while gus has his own debt to deal with whoever he borrowed from.
What collateral does he have to take out a loan though? If he really wanted to help her out, he should have signed a deal in front of the travel agency that shifted the guarantee/debt to him rather than Amanda.
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On November 09 2011 18:13 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
my thoughts concerning the debt.
gus should loan money from a bank or any source. preferably with a legal binding loan agreement.
use the money to pay amanda so she can pay for the tickets in full.
amanda's debts is cleared and relieved of her debt and involvement.
while gus has his own debt to deal with whoever he borrowed from.
exactly. asking for donations is sickening.... if she took sole responsibility for the tickets then that is unthinkably stupid.
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On November 09 2011 17:58 ultramafia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 17:50 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
she probably works for the travel agency and was a guarantor for the tickets thats why they could get the tickets without the full payment upfront.
the 200,000 out of 715,000 is probably the downpayment. again if thats the case you can see how stupid it would be to put the responsibility of that on herself. I do not understand that to be the common way of business for travel agents. "Hey you pay 25% and if you don't pay the other 75% i'll cover it!!" again makes no sense. and its frankly insulting that donations would be requested. starting to think there alot more behind this than just one idiot.
I'm glad you see things so clearly. They should have had you run the event instead.
It's true that she was too trusting, but people can be persuaded, people can be tricked. If a guy like Gus is able to go around and tell everyone that he has everything under control, he can easily put pressure on her by making it seem like she is the only one preventing the event from going ahead. With so many people doing so many disconnected things and the criminal holding all the strings, manipulation can be very easy. In order for Amanda to legitimately refuse she would have to take on the huge responsibility of getting in touch with everyone on the project, gathering evidence based on a hunch, uncover Gus's plan, then convince everybody that something fishy is going on. That's actually pretty difficult to do especially when everybody is running around on trust.
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if you work for a company (you can proof that they paid you or said so) and you make a contract for this company and can proof that you have the ok from this company to do so, you dont have any problems.
That's the reason why you sign with "p.p." and make sure the company/organisation name is on the contract not yours.
If i had anything to do with this, i would make sure i get a paper from this dude that says i worked by his order.
His twitter message and his strange ego, let you think, this should not be hard to get.
However this is a very complicated situation and i have the feeling that even the person involved, try to get all informations together. There are so many names/organisations in it now, that im sure they find a way to get this thing over with, just to clear their names out of it.
Over the donation thing: you people want to donate to all messed up tournaments that's come in future of sc2?
than you better put some money aside..
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On November 09 2011 18:13 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
my thoughts concerning the debt.
gus should loan money from a bank or any source. preferably with a legal binding loan agreement.
use the money to pay amanda so she can pay for the tickets in full.
amanda's debts is cleared and relieved of her debt and involvement.
while gus has his own debt to deal with whoever he borrowed from.
What if gus doesn't have the guts to shoulder the debt?
Nevermind me. I'd assume the next time we see him again would be him declaring the next PPSL, which gets thrown under the bus immediately. I wonder if he's really free of all monetary obligations (i.e. the plane tickets).
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On November 09 2011 18:16 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 18:13 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
my thoughts concerning the debt.
gus should loan money from a bank or any source. preferably with a legal binding loan agreement.
use the money to pay amanda so she can pay for the tickets in full.
amanda's debts is cleared and relieved of her debt and involvement.
while gus has his own debt to deal with whoever he borrowed from. What collateral does he have to take out a loan though? If he really wanted to help her out, he should have signed a deal in front of the travel agency that shifted the guarantee/debt to him rather than Amanda.
i figured they must have considered shifting the debt with the approval of the travel agency already so was just thinking of alternatives.
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EPT
