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Cuiu
Germany410 Posts
i see where you coming from but i never pleayed bw mp and im on the side with many other peoples because some things make in bw so much more sense. And i dont think BW would be that much harder than Sc2 with auto mining the selection shit etc. I dont want BW2 but that dosent mean that you have to make a game totally different only because you wanna be different. Thats a Stupid Reason. But im just a casual and im satisfied with sc2 but i can understand people @higher lvl | ||
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shadowboxer
United States224 Posts
You couldn't do that in BW at all. If you wanted to be a top player you HAD to move to Korea and you had to play 14+ hours a day because the game was pure speed and the ability to combine that speed with good strategy, tactics and unit control. In SC2 the game does almost all of this for you, so players that will never actually be good at the game can still play it at a certain level and feel like they have an understanding of the game and why pros do what they do. BW is a game competitive gamers appreciate, but SC2 is an e-sport. It's similar to Counter-Strike 1.6 in the sense that for competitive gamers, it was the perfect shooter. Nothing will top it, ever, hands down. 1.6 is not a marketable e-sport though, and something will come along and eventually beat it out in the e-sports market just like SC2 did to BW. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On October 26 2011 10:05 neSix wrote: I think you're missing the point of those arguments: It's not the game itself we wish to copy, but rather it's the characteristics that made the game so great that we hope to see more of in SC2. I don't think the (legitimate) goal for anyone is to mimic Brood War. Instead, I think it's to use a game that we loved a benchmark for comparison. It's not that we want the game to be identical, but rather we would like the sequel to make use of aspects that we found exciting, such as space control, drawn-out, spaced-out large battles, the ability to turn an advantage into a victory outright as opposed to just expanding, etc. Exactly. A little bit off topic, but personally I think the one absolute biggest difference that makes SC2 feel so different (and not as likable to many people) from BW isn't in the units at all, but rather, the fact that unit hitboxes/sizes are SO TINY compared to BW. This makes a 200/200 army able to slip through choke points, walk up ramps, and die to aoe attacks in a matter of seconds. It was completely different in BW and it DEFINITELY was what allowed such powerful spells to exist, and allowed map control to be a much bigger deal, because large armies took much longer to travel around the map no matter what race. The sad thing is this will never happen because Blizzard will never change the way their game works. They will only ever change numbers, and it makes me sad. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
How much of the difference from BW is due to the style of play as opposed to the units? For example when the game first came out banelings were ridiculous until MKP showed the awesomeness of marine splitting. Not only did this allow the back and forth battle to take place, but also allows someone with superior micro to beat supposed counters. It also rewards players who put the effort in to counter the ball affect and use appropriate positioning. The protoss deathball went a similar way, as soon as zerg learnt how to use their units appropriately it stopped being a problem. BW units/ideas seem like solutions because they worked in BW but whether they will work in SC2 is an unknown. Blizzard does use some of the same concepts but is also trying others. As much as I hate to say it, we are just going to have to work with what we have an see how things pan out. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
Since BW was great and balanced, I guess SC2 should be terrible and imbalanced, right? Since if you tried to make it great and balanced it would be "BWy" and we can't have that, right? | ||
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UndoneJin
United States438 Posts
It shouldn't be offensive to say that SC2 is more fun for the average person than BW ever was for the simple reason that it's more playable (And don't start bitching me out, I played BW all my life.) I do also think there's a certain core of people that makes out the differences between the two games to be greater than they really are. To be completely honest, I think HotS will be awesome and even if SC2 never "lives up" to the hype, the professional scene outside of Korea is proof of just how good a game SC2 is, even if it doesn't have the old-school appeal BW does. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On October 26 2011 10:33 lololol wrote: So because BW exists, SC2 should be as different as possible? What kind of an argument is that? Since BW was great and balanced, I guess SC2 should be terrible and imbalanced, right? Since if you tried to make it great and balanced it would be "BWy" and we can't have that, right? Nice hyperbole you have there. How is that even close to what people are saying. According to your logic, we either have a BW remake or a game that has no resemblance to BW at all. All the OP is saying is that this game is different. It didn't have to be but it is. There is no point trying to make things the same as BW because the game is not BW. Yes some things have been incorporated but not everything. There is a middle ground here. | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On October 26 2011 10:29 Angra wrote: Exactly. A little bit off topic, but personally I think the one absolute biggest difference that makes SC2 feel so different (and not as likable to many people) from BW isn't in the units at all, but rather, the fact that unit hitboxes/sizes are SO TINY compared to BW. This makes a 200/200 army able to slip through choke points, walk up ramps, and die to aoe attacks in a matter of seconds. It was completely different in BW and it DEFINITELY was what allowed such powerful spells to exist, and allowed map control to be a much bigger deal, because large armies took much longer to travel around the map no matter what race. The sad thing is this will never happen because Blizzard will never change the way their game works. They will only ever change numbers, and it makes me sad. Size has no influence with this. In BW the units take a path and takes into consideration all of the other units in its way, so the unit would take the fastest path as if the other units were a part of terrain. This caused units to naturally spread out more because they had to find a path around the other units. In SC2 they take the fastest path regardless of where other units are, and even push units out of the way. Since all of the units are going straight to a location, they bunch up. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On October 26 2011 10:38 Probulous wrote: Nice hyperbole you have there. How is that even close to what people are saying. According to your logic, we either have a BW remake or a game that has no resemblance to BW at all. All the OP is saying is that this game is different. It didn't have to be but it is. There is no point trying to make things the same as BW because the game is not BW. Yes some things have been incorporated but not everything. There is a middle ground here. The hyperbole is not from my side, nobody wants SC2 to be a rerelease of BW. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
"If you want it to be like Broodwar, go play Broodwar." I'm glad the devs share your and my point of view. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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Levistus
1134 Posts
He doesn't even want to use dynamic pathfinding to fix the deathballs, but instead, keep the balls and try to make them smaller by including new units, which I like(the idea not the units). What do we know? Maybe by the end of it all, we could have a more fun and competitive game with loads of strategies and tactical fighting. But we might also need Bisu's multitasking to appreciate it. Oh well we'll see. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
I honestly don't feel that SC2 has to be BW... For instance, as someone relatively scrubby, I appreciate auto-mine and MBS. On the other hand, hell yes I don't like to see deathball v deathball and like to see some high intense micro. I don't think that being like BW precludes SC2 from being good, and that being different does not preclude SC2 from being bad. Its just that BW has had its successes because of its bright characterstics and emulating that or wishing for some mechanic not yet added is definitely good | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
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imEnex
Canada500 Posts
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The Void
Germany428 Posts
BUT its just that we see sc2's great potential and we dont want to get that fucked up | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
SC2 was always, in my mind, an attempt to make a better starcraft. Better balance, better game design, better graphics/UI/interface, and ultimately, more and better strategies. But because game design needs to change, you're right there is no point comparing it to BW. If we wanted a 3D version of BW with better UI/graphics/interface as well as better strategies, it would have to be different. To have a better strategy game while being BW is impossible. | ||
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Meteora.GB
Canada2479 Posts
You bring up some good points I suppose. | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
On October 26 2011 10:39 lololol wrote: The hyperbole is not from my side, nobody wants SC2 to be a rerelease of BW. That in itself is hyperbole. There is a minority of people who explicitly say that they want this, and a larger group who always clamor for lurkers, reavers, scourge, old high ground, tank AI etc. | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
Nobody is saying we should have the exact same units in sc2 as bw either. but to look at units out now. Its easier to 1a2a3a to victory in too many circumstanses. Making units more position based will make the game a bit harder and make the game have (possibily) more epic moments that are more common in bw. Yes it will be slightly more "bw-y" in the way you are describing it. but its like going from a 180 from bw to a 165. Its not much and might just lead to a harder but more enjoyable to watch esport. | ||
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