EPTIs the « spoiler fear » hurting E-sports ? - Page 28
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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled. | ||
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Pr0spect
Sweden32 Posts
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Tone_
United Kingdom554 Posts
On October 13 2011 18:47 Pr0spect wrote: Due to the lack of coverage, and not being able to discuss what just happened is the main reason I tend to not visit Team Liquid that often, and I think for a guy coming from other eSports games like Counter-Strike or Quake you kinda expect to be able to talk about the winners of a tournament, so I think in that sense Team Liquid hinders it community to grow in some regard. I'm genuinely just interested here as to how you feel hindered? I've often seen posts discussing recent events. Posts like e.g. Puzzle vs Tassadar game 2! People discuss things in a forum so you have to go through this process anyway? Is the difference having the word "wins" after one players name in the title? What actual change would you like to see? | ||
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h41fgod
Sweden377 Posts
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spree
United States86 Posts
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centinel4
Austria50 Posts
On October 13 2011 19:19 spree wrote: Yeah I kinda prefer it the spoiler way. It was fun to check gotfrag back then in 1.6 era and see a huge banner of who won CPL or something like that. Definitely made winning events feel more newsworthy or just special. this! TL is not only a Forum, it is a resource of information and NEWS. If you dont like being spoiled, dont go to TL. go directly to the tournament page you want to see. (like 100000 other ppl before me suggested) Making a big deal out of an important win is really nice and makes it feel that more special, like spree said. its kinda boring having to go to a forum post to see who won one of the most important tournaments in the last couple of months (IPL3). I want big fat banners with nerds holding trophies!!! | ||
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soulist
United States932 Posts
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sisternx
Sweden61 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
On October 13 2011 16:43 Cuiu wrote: when i want to know the results i open up tl or reddid when i dont want to know the results i open up gsl. when the games are highly recommended i watch them when not i dont watch them. ist that easy you know? When i dont want to know the results of a soccer game. i must close my phone i can not talk to everyone that likes soccer i must look down when i travel through my town because of tvs in public transportation. im not allowed to buy the morning paper im not allowed to watch tv still the last moment when the recap starts. so i dont even try it. when i mist it. i watch the results and then i watch HOOOOOOWWWWWWW they won or lost and thats the most important factor not who won Totally agreed. I'm STILL waiting for the recap of IPL3 to feel the hype of stephano winning it all for us foriegners, and it was pretty anticlimatic for me to only be able to go to the LR thread and open the spoiler tag to see it. If there was a massive banner across TL.net my heart woulda lept up to my throat with that feeling of witnessing history. As it was, I was still pumped to watch the vods. Also, sorry I didn't watch the finals live, watched the entire rest of the tournament tho, had some stuff to attend to during the finals unfortunately. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On October 13 2011 01:05 Liquid`Tyler wrote: That isn't the full explanation. Spoiler protection is there for people who want to browse TL.net between the time when the match they want to watch has aired and when they watch the VODs. What are they reading that interests them more than watching the actual content? Anyone who reads TL without watching anything obviously doesn't care about being spoiled. Anyone who reads TL to supplement their VOD watching has no reason to read TL if they haven't watched the VODs. But it's not as if the only content on TL.net is about that particular tournament. Think of a person from the EU who had to tune out of IPL3 once it switched to LoL because they had work on Monday. They go to work, and intend to watch the VOD when they come home. The OP is suggesting that the front page of TL.net should have a giant picture of Stephano with the words FOREIGNER TRIUMPH in 48pt font, 1 minute after Stephano wins. The status quo is that we generally don't spoil results on front pages or thread titles in the first 24-48 hours. The reason for this is that the community and audience are spread across the globe, but it's basically a single scene. The Giants aren't going to be playing PST one week, CET the next week, and KST the week after. MVP or HuK or WhiteRa are. I have heard you say that you don't really care about results, you care more if they were good games that teach you something about the game. You must realize that yours is the minority opinion of a professional, and that in any sport, viewers care first and foremost about their favorites winning or losing. Sure, Kiwikaki vs Stephano G2 is hugely entertaining even if you know ahead of time who wins the game and the series, but most games are not quite that good, and even so, it was all the more amazing to see live because you didn't know that the double vortex would win the game until the very last seconds of a 50+ minute game. I think a good compromise is to agree to a set period of time where we don't overtly spoil events. Even 24 hours should be enough for the vast majority of viewers. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On October 13 2011 18:57 h41fgod wrote: If it is a live event, spoiler the living daylights out of it. You should be watching it live anyway. What if it's at 4am and people have jobs? Should they not come to TL at all the next morning because you want massive banners on the front page, immediately? | ||
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ravemir
Portugal595 Posts
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Lakai
Canada315 Posts
On October 13 2011 19:43 yeint wrote: What if it's at 4am and people have jobs? Should they not come to TL at all the next morning because you want massive banners on the front page, immediately? Yes. This is how any other sport works. | ||
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
If you are a huge baseball fan and this is what you had to do because people didn't want spoilers. Cardinals vs Brewers game 3 + Show Spoiler + Cardinals win 4-3 When asked about the win, + Show Spoiler + Cardinals Slugger Albert Pujols said this... "we won with..." Manager of the + Show Spoiler + Cardinals on the win: Or would you rather see this. Cardinals Bullpen shuts down Brewers. Win 4-3! Pujols with another multi-hit game! Details inside. It's the same for Starcraft imo. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
It works that way out of precedent, not because it's a better system. I would definitely prefer it if ESPN had spoilers. Beyond that, these are two different types of sites. The people who "don't know how to find results" on TL say that because they don't understand TL and they probably aren't regular posters anyways. Finding results and places to discuss them is quite easy, once you know TL. Expecting a big banner and immediate coverage and recap is simply not how TL news operates. Final stories come out days later because they are much higher quality, and TL doesn't have paid journalists to write an instant recap or get interviews. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
Other sports are local, for a local audience. Esports is a uniquely international phenomenon where the same players can play on three different continents within weeks of each other. The only other sport that is similarly globe-trotting is Formula 1 racing, but these are always scheduled so the live broadcast is before midnight on Sunday in all regions it's broadcast. I am not talking about a select few people with odd schedules. I am talking about a huge proportion of the viewership. Whether it's Korean events at 5 AM for NA viewers, or NA events at 4 AM for EU viewers, it's impossible to watch for many people. This isn't like the Superbowl being shown at 2 AM in some european ex-pat bar. Cardinals Bullpen shuts down Brewers. Win 4-3! Pujols with another multi-hit game! Details inside. It's the same for Starcraft imo. It's not, because no one outside of North America knows who the hell the Cardinals or the Brewers are. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
And that also means that every person has a different level of attachment to players / teams. Do I care who won between Netherlands & Spain in the 2010 WC? No, not really. I did care more that my local club could avoid relegation and stay in the league. Why? Not because of the level of play. The NED vs ESP game was way better. But because of the emotional attachment. I'm a fan of this club for over 20 years. And it doesnt matter if the play is good, or if they get an irregular penalty in the last minute of the game and win because of that. I only want them to win, not "how they win" in such a high pressure situation which is deciding the future of the club itself. Do I care about IPL? No, not one of my favourite players was in the tournament. But what about those people who's favourite players WAS in the tournament? Shouldnt I respect them and let them shiver in fear if their player may take the win? Do you think they would care if their player won with a proxy gate? Or a 6pool? Or if the opponent only lost, because he destroyed his own OC? If people are emotionally attached to players they only care about results. And they like the suspense. + Show Spoiler [This] + is a good example. It's those low -> high excitement level which is important to a lot of people. "OMG we're so dead, everything was in vain" and 1sec later "OMG TOP OF THE WORLD!!!". This is why allkills & especially reverse-allkills are so exciting in SC2. i.e. BO7; it's 3-0. 3-1 "Oh yeah, at least they didnt get all killed". 3-2 "Oh nice, at least a reasonable result." 3-3 "OMG, only one more game. But he's exhausted, but he might do it" 3-4 "OMG HE DID IT!!!!" (imagine if it's a comeback game with another "he's going to lose" moment turning into a "OMG!" moment= The level of excitement would be totally different if you tell the person "Yeah, they're going to win 3-4". Sure, from an analytical standpoint it might be even better, since people can watch how he's going to win, but from a screaming fanboy/-girl level the excitement will not be the same. "Dont worry, everything will be fine" will prevent the emotional lows. So why would you want to ruin the excitement for those people? I dont agree with people wanting to have a spoilered threadtitles in the forum. "IPL3 Winner interview" or "IPL3 Stephano interview". If you know the results or dont care about the spoiler nothing will change for you. You just open the thread. But people who do care about them have the option to not open the thread. But I have to agree with people saying the frontpage looks bleak during / after a tournament. So I wouldnt care for a spoiler newspage (with the option to opt-out in the profile), or news like "Amazing IPL3 finals! A battle between titans & amazing games... read more" The problem though his - someone has to write those articles. And writing good articles takes time, and since the TL writers dont get payed - who's forcing them to complete the article so fast? Sure you can have low quality news - but do we really want that? Another problem I see is - how do we watch VODs? I can navigate the gom-site and find the VODs, but IPL? http://www.ign.com/ipl can someone direct me how I can navigate to the VODs from there? I tried and gave up after 5mins. On TL I know I can open the LR thread and at the bottom of the OP there's a "Day 4 Vods" link. And no - remembering that they use twitch & their channelname is not an option for a "casual" viewer  | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
Another problem I see is - how do we watch VODs? I can navigate the gom-site and find the VODs, but IPL? http://www.ign.com/ipl can someone direct me how I can navigate to the VODs from there? I tried and gave up after 5mins. On TL I know I can open the LR thread and at the bottom of the OP there's a "Day 4 Vods" link. http://www.justin.tv/ignproleague/videos Quite spoiler free, and it's a recording of the entire broadcast, so you can pick up at whatever point you want. And no - remembering that they use twitch & their channelname is not an option for a "casual" viewer Oh. Nevermind!  | ||
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enigamI
Canada385 Posts
Judging by the poll as of time of posting, 92% of voters agree with me, and from a fairly large sample. (Though 7% require a spoilerfree page.) | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On October 13 2011 20:10 enigamI wrote: This is the biggest thing that keeps me from visiting teamliquid, and as an extension (due to a lack of competing news sites) following sc2 in general. I want results, as they happen, front and center. Judging by the poll as of time of posting, 92% of voters agree with me, and from a fairly large sample. (Though 7% require a spoilerfree page.) http://www.teamliquid.net/mlg/ Congrats, you get results as they happen, live tweets from the event, schedules & links to every single thing you need without being a dick to the rest of TL by plastering results along the front page. | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
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