Today, compLexity and Millenium are pleased to announce that the Stephano situation has come to an end. Complexity and Millenium have agreed to a settlement, in which a significant fine will be paid by Stephano in consideration of his role in creating the situation, and all parties now consider the matter closed.
Comments from Jason Bass, COO of compLexity Gaming:
"It was never compLexity's intention to damage the career of a young eSports talent nor to force someone to join our gaming organization who did not want to. We did, however, feel that maintaining the integrity of the player contract was crucial not only for our own business but for eSports in general. For that reason, we are satisfied that there has been a strong penalty, as player contracts need to be respected going forward.
We would also like to respectfully address the concerns of the French community who are upset that we did not have a more direct negotiation with Millenium during this process. Due to the fact Stephano was not contracted by Millenium and the fact he stated he was receiving counter offers in response to our discussions, we did not contact Millenium directly and for that we are regretful and apologize for any perceived disrespect."
Comments from Cedric Page, CEO of Millenium:
"Millenium has never ignored on purpose any attempt from Complexity to establish communication. Time difference fully accounts for the few hours it took us to respond to them. Additionally, Millenium was never aware of, nor involved in, a bidding/counterbidding process with Complexity over Stephano's contract situation. All things being now clarified, and after a calm discussion with Complexity, we would also like to apologize for stating that Complexity 'disoriented' Stephano during their talks with him. It was an inappropriate comment and we did not mean to be disrespectful. We are very happy to clarify this, as we had decided to discuss with Complexity before stating anything more than our last statement."
Everyone now considers this matter closed, and all parties wish each other the best in their future endeavors.
Lastly, compLexity and Millenium would also like to thank Alexander Garfield of Evil Geniuses for acting as the mediator of our discussions during this challenging time. His time and efforts avoided a clash that was most certainly headed for litigation, had a reasonable settlement not been reached.
Well that's a good solution for this thing. Contracts do matter in SC2! And an agreement is certainly better than a law suit. Stephano, learn from it and focus on your amazing play.
On September 22 2011 08:09 zev318 wrote: wording of that suggests stephano is paying the fines alone, which would be kinda funny.
If he is, that will be pretty backwards imo, but I'm guessing Col just says he is, because he's to them the one that caused the issue and therefor the one they penalize, but Mill *must* be paying it for him.
I wouldn't want to see anyone having to play on a team he didn't want to be on, but I also don't want to see contracts just disregarded, so I think this is a good solution.
On September 22 2011 08:10 OasiS.oasis wrote: Very unfortunate for Stephano, I bet this is costing him a lot of money compare to what he has in the bank.
If Millenium is forcing Stephano to pay I dont think he would have stayed there. Stephano got potential and Millenium knows this, he's their Ace so they better hold on to him cause without them they got...
Tarson? Lalush? Tod? Yes this is somewhat good players but nothing compared to Stephano and importantly, what Stephano can become with the right practice, mentality and support from the team!
poor stephano :/ but he's still young, this is a hard lesson for him to learn. hopefully this will make him a better person in his later years in his career
On September 22 2011 08:16 youngminii wrote: Sucks that Complexity comes out on the bottom end.
There was no good coming of this from the Col side, they lost a great player in a horrible fashion that cause a lot of drama. At the end of the day you can only get money because you cant force a player to play for you if he clearly does not want to
Now that I can stop responding to all the racist douchebags blaming french about this story, I would like to say that I was hopping that stephano joins complexity .
EG still end up somehow being involved in the drama but this time they were the good guys =P. I'm glad that this was able to be settled and I can't really say that I feel sorry for Stephano.
Well, this is about the best that could happen I guess. Nice to see someone being held responsible for their actions, sad to see it happen to Stephano; I don't think he intended it. Glad the teams could come to an agreement.
i figured he was staying on mill, col wouldn't want to force him to play for them if he didn't want stay there, but im glad he's getting a fine. and im especially glad that this allows a precedent to be set showing that Contracts matter and you cna't back out because you "changed your mind"
Well, seeing as I have no idea what REALLY happened... I'm happy Complexity got at least some fall back from all this.... Contracts HAVE to mean something, right?
Good to see things are resolved and proves my point even further that Stephano is not to be trusted in signing or taking part in any contracts. The fact he paid a fine proves Complexity was correct. Millenium also lost a ton of credibility as a professional organization by issuing a statement without actually saying anything regarding the situation.
"Actions have consequences" is a very good lesson to learn for such a young guy. I know a lot of people way older than 18 that should have learned this lesson earlier.
Glad that Complexity is satisfied with the final outcome, because imho they did nothing wrong. Of course we will never know all the facts.
How excruciating. I didn't think Stephano was the type of guy to make up things like "bidding wars" and play a part in an issue like this. I am very disappointed.
Wouldn't have been any drama if Complexity and Millenium handled this professionally from the start instead of starting an internet flame war with legal threats.
Hopefully, they've learnt their lesson and will handle disputes better in the future. Stephano certainly learned his.
So in the end Stephano is stuck on the same team, with an indefinite crappy contract and no hopes of playing more international tournaments and he has to pay a huge fine...he really managed to screw this up xD
It's an unfortunate situation, but I feel that the end conclusion was about the best that could possibly have come out of the situation. Good to see that they did end up talking about it and reaching some decision together.
On September 22 2011 08:23 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: How excruciating. I didn't think Stephano was the type of guy to make up things like "bidding wars" and play a part in an issue like this. I am very disappointed.
Bidding wars are common and completely fine. This last minute whoopsiedoopsie is not.
Stephano told coL he didn't have a contract with Mill, so coL had no real reason to talk to Mill except in due respect. Stephano however told coL that he was constantly in talks with Mills getting counter offers so coL was under the assumption Mill knew all about the situation through Stephano.
This statement seems to pretty much say Stephano is a liar for creating this whole situation by lying somewhere during those 18 days. Does he have a contract? Who knows, and honestly who cares now. He has lost so much respect from the community whether you liked him or not, that it comes down to whether he can keep winning going forward. Hes a strong player, but things like this can jump the shark for people.
Good news, too bad that coL didn't get another great zerg player but good that this bad situation was able to be resolved in a mature way that seems fair for all parties.
"Lastly, compLexity and Millenium would also like to thank Alexander Garfield of Evil Geniuses for acting as the mediator of our discussions during this challenging time." I loled
On September 22 2011 08:30 Mohdoo wrote: Lying about counter-offers in order to get more money...What a scum bag.
Mohdoo would have never done that, he would have accepted the first job he is proposed even if it is with a shitty salary without any negotiation, but mohdoo has morale, such a nice guy
This is a good conclusion. We didn't need another massive scandal, and it's good that the situation is resolved WITH a fine or sanction of some sort, so that this doesn't open the floodgates for similar things to happen in the future.
Both coL and Mill came out of this looking reasonably professional.
On September 22 2011 08:30 Mohdoo wrote: Lying about counter-offers in order to get more money...What a scum bag.
Or some would call it a sound business mind.
Yeah worked out well for him huh? Haha I hope Stephano had to pay for it himself.
Well im sure he got a huge salary now form millinium and im also quite sure Millinium pay the fine well they should sicne they pressured him into breaking the contract with complexity
On September 22 2011 08:30 Mohdoo wrote: Lying about counter-offers in order to get more money...What a scum bag.
Mohdoo would have never done that, he would have accepted the first job he is proposed even if it is with a shitty salary without any negotiation, but mohdoo has morale, such a nice guy
You shouldn't lie about what your current/former employers are offering though. You tend to get into trouble. Like we kind of see here.
This is exactly the way this situation should have been resolved, so I'm happy about that. I've basically lost all respect for Stephano, though, and I hope he gets crushed in the next clanwar with coL.
Sucks for Complexity, but the whole situation just makes me like their team (and EG) even more. Rational adults prevail... wonders will never cease to amaze.
Glad to see a player's desire to try and deceive a team willing to give him a great opportunity back fire and probably keep him making a smaller salary for a long time. coL and Millennium are still okay in my books.
Well, it sounded from before like the whole problem was mainly Stephano's fault, so I guess it's appropriate that he have to pay a fine. I wonder how much he was fined..
On September 22 2011 08:33 Luepert wrote: "Lastly, compLexity and Millenium would also like to thank Alexander Garfield of Evil Geniuses for acting as the mediator of our discussions during this challenging time." I loled
I wanted Stephano to go to Complexity, does this mean I can blame EG?
This was probably the only realistic solution. They couldn't force Stephano to play for them, but they did need some sort of compensation since this was essentially Millenium buying a contracted player (even if he was contracted for like 12 hours)
This seems like the best solution. Col didn't want a player who didn't want to be there, but they also didn't want to let him completely off the hook. I am glad to see some action was taken.
Well I'm glad things worked out for the most part. It's good that both teams showed that players can't roam around freely joining teams and then backing out whenever they please.
This sounds like a reasonable solution for everyone involved.
I'm also pleased that they asked Alex Garfield from EG to help mediate. Bringing in a representative from another team sets a good precedent for resolving future disputes. Perhaps the major teams will all sign an agreement to participate in some kind of mediation panel for situations like this.
On September 22 2011 08:07 Deathmanbob wrote: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3136/# Today, compLexity and Millenium are pleased to announce that the Stephano situation has come to an end. Complexity and Millenium have agreed to a settlement, in which a significant fine will be paid by Stephano in consideration of his role in creating the situation, and all parties now consider the matter closed.
Seems like its all over guys, Stephano pays a huge fine and stays on Millenium
This looks like it was the only thing that could of happened because Col made it clear they were not going to force stephano to play for them but they had to do something so that this breach of contract just went away unpunished
This should read "they had to do something so that his breach of contract didn't go unpunished." Sorry for being a grammar nazi
About the topic tho, this makes me sad I liked Stephano before this. I guess no one taught him what a contract is.
On September 22 2011 08:07 Deathmanbob wrote: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3136/# Today, compLexity and Millenium are pleased to announce that the Stephano situation has come to an end. Complexity and Millenium have agreed to a settlement, in which a significant fine will be paid by Stephano in consideration of his role in creating the situation, and all parties now consider the matter closed.
Seems like its all over guys, Stephano pays a huge fine and stays on Millenium
This looks like it was the only thing that could of happened because Col made it clear they were not going to force stephano to play for them but they had to do something so that this breach of contract just went away unpunished
This should read "they had to do something so that his breach of contract didn't go unpunished." Sorry for being a grammar nazi
About the topic tho, this makes me sad I liked Stephano before this. I guess no one taught him what a contract is.
Ill change it for you my grammer SUCKS, there is no reason why people should be forced to read it, thanks for the edit
Well, while it sucks, it's really important that there is a penalty for breaking contracts like this, or there is no value in them, and that can only hurt the growth of ESPORTS.
Diverting their Stephano funds + his fine to Naniwa was probably better for them anyways. Naniwa is actually willing to live in the MVP house for years and will have a bigger US presence too, so he is a better pick up.
On September 22 2011 09:03 Zzoram wrote: Diverting their Stephano funds + his fine to Naniwa was probably better for them anyways. Naniwa is actually willing to live in the MVP house for years and will have a bigger US presence too, so he is a better pick up.
They were actually going to sign them both so yea Complexity president was abit sad
Wow, this is upsetting to me. A young player gets swirled up in the mix of contract drama and then ends up with the fine in the end while the two corporations shake hands. Not such a great day for eSports.
On September 22 2011 09:11 alwaid wrote: Wow, this is upsetting to me. A young player gets swirled up in the mix of contract drama and then ends up with the fine in the end while the two corporations shake hands. Not such a great day for eSports.
Um... you realize Stephano was the one at fault for the problem in the first place, right? Have you not been following the story?
On September 22 2011 09:11 alwaid wrote: Wow, this is upsetting to me. A young player gets swirled up in the mix of contract drama and then ends up with the fine in the end while the two corporations shake hands. Not such a great day for eSports.
It actually WAS a good day for E-Sports...If you know the whole story
On September 22 2011 09:11 alwaid wrote: Wow, this is upsetting to me. A young player gets swirled up in the mix of contract drama and then ends up with the fine in the end while the two corporations shake hands. Not such a great day for eSports.
NOBODY forced stephano to sign that contract, and then go back on it. Sure millenium and complexity both influenced him, but when it comes down to it he needs to be a big boy and step up to his mistakes and pay the fine.
"Lastly, compLexity and Millenium would also like to thank Alexander Garfield of Evil Geniuses for acting as the mediator of our discussions during this challenging time. His time and efforts avoided a clash that was most certainly headed for litigation, had a reasonable settlement not been reached."
This probably spells the beginning of the end for Stephano. Considering Millenium's philosophy regarding how they want to develop esports internally within France, it's going to be tough for Stephano to take the next step. As I posted in the other thread, Col ends up on top anyway by getting Naniwa instead.
On September 22 2011 09:56 theBizness wrote: This probably spells the beginning of the end for Stephano. Considering Millenium's philosophy regarding how they want to develop esports internally within France, it's going to be tough for Stephano to take the next step. As I posted in the other thread, Col ends up on top anyway by getting Naniwa instead.
It was mentioned on live on three that coL had planned to contract both, negotiations take time, and signing naniwa was not a snap decision based on what happened with stephano
It good that it was settle w/o it getting out of hand and both agree on good terms. Unfortunately Stephano has to pay the prize for the thing he cause, it's his fault and he will be responsible for it. I really wish he had gone with complexity since he'll be stuck in France with Millennium. I'm not saying that its bad but Millennium want to expand only within its country while Col is willing to send their players in KOR to improve or other global tournaments ie MLG etc...
On September 22 2011 10:02 CatNzHat wrote: Mill should definitely help him out with the fines if not cover them completely.
I still think that Col is being a bit retarded by sueing Stephano, whilst disregarding other situations where their contracts were breached (destiny)
I feel like the destiny situation was more of a, he didn't feel like he'd fit in, we're not sure if he'd fit in kind of a situation. Less of a, he signed with us and then signed with another team the next day kind of a thing.
I feel like they're 2 100% different situations
i'm glad that they were able to get some kind of compensation from stephano after he accidentally orchestrated this whole debacle.
On September 22 2011 10:13 mechavoc wrote: What was EG role in this?
Lastly, compLexity and Millenium would also like to thank Alexander Garfield of Evil Geniuses for acting as the mediator of our discussions during this challenging time. His time and efforts avoided a clash that was most certainly headed for litigation, had a reasonable settlement not been reached.
Nice to see that matter resolved. Especially for the player.
But I would be really interested in a legal action just to see how the player contracts work. Plus the discussion that Stephano is still underaged (not sure about this) and trans-continental law enforcements in eSports.
On September 22 2011 10:02 CatNzHat wrote: Mill should definitely help him out with the fines if not cover them completely.
I still think that Col is being a bit retarded by sueing Stephano, whilst disregarding other situations where their contracts were breached (destiny)
destiny was different, destiny and col discussed the matter and came to an agreement that allowed destiny to leave, destiny didn't just leave col and sign with another team
This ended up as well as it could have for coL. They didn't want to force a player to play for them, but obviously they can't look soft. Stephano was punished for what he did and that's what should happen.
I wish people wouldn't blame his age, perhaps his maturity. There is no excuse for what he did. 18 is legally and mentally old enough to make decisions like this. I'm happy he was fined and this debacle is over.
Sounds like a very reasonable outcome imo. If you consider that the vast majority of up and coming players are going to be young then setting clear expectations around contracts etc is a very good idea.
As with Destiny's scenario you've also got to take things on a case by case basis, sometimes simply parting ways is best for both parties. But in a situation where teams are being played off using false information there needs to be some consquences.
Sadly for Stephano he has a fine to pay and damage to his rep - it'll be interesting to see if he stays quiet or releases a statement.
On September 22 2011 08:09 zev318 wrote: wording of that suggests stephano is paying the fines alone, which would be kinda funny.
If he is, that will be pretty backwards imo, but I'm guessing Col just says he is, because he's to them the one that caused the issue and therefor the one they penalize, but Mill *must* be paying it for him.
That doesn't sound even remotely backwards. He was choosing to exit out of his contract early with Mill to go to Col. but then had a change of heart. The bulk of this situation rests solely on his shoulders an should definatlly be made to pay it on hi own without any sort of help from his team. An if I were Mill I wouldn't help anyway because of the fact up until his change of heart he was quieting our team so no way in hell would I help him there because one has to deal w/ the consequences of their actions.
What i'd like to see now is a better process whereby players (especially younger ones like Stephano) are less likely to make these kinds of mistakes in future.
This whole thing has been really embarrassing to watch. and really craps on the 'pro' in 'progamer'.
On September 22 2011 10:02 CatNzHat wrote: Mill should definitely help him out with the fines if not cover them completely.
I still think that Col is being a bit retarded by sueing Stephano, whilst disregarding other situations where their contracts were breached (destiny)
Mill should in no way shape or form help him pay the fines. He was gonna leave their team for another till he changed his mind. He was the creator of it all an thusly should be for it all. As I said previously if I were Mill I wouldn't give the slightest bit of help to him at all. An um I'm thinking you're the one being a "bit retarded" for not realizing that there was no Breach of contract in regards to Destiny. Him an Col. came to an agreement an they released him from their contract with him. Get your facts straight man.
Glad they sorted this out. It's good to see that they paid a lot of respect to the contracts and forced Stephano to pay a fine for his actions. This is something that's seen quite often with star athletes in regular sports, and I think it's a good precedent to set for eSports. Well done to both parties.
On September 22 2011 09:56 theBizness wrote: This probably spells the beginning of the end for Stephano. Considering Millenium's philosophy regarding how they want to develop esports internally within France, it's going to be tough for Stephano to take the next step. As I posted in the other thread, Col ends up on top anyway by getting Naniwa instead.
It was mentioned on live on three that coL had planned to contract both, negotiations take time, and signing naniwa was not a snap decision based on what happened with stephano
It would explain Naniwa's snarky post in the Stephano goes back to Mill thread haha.
Glad this situation is resolved but I would love to know what the fine was. However, if that information was released it would give clues to how much the contract was for, so not releasing the amount seems appropriate.
From the jason bass interview it sounds like stephano was ghost negotiating b/w himself and complexity, pretending to talk to mill about counter offers to raise the price complexity would go until he liked the number.
As mentioned on SotG, I feel that Col really made a good decision here, by ensuring there was a penalty, thus adding value to the player contract. Hopefully eventually the SC2 player contract will actually have some worth, instead of people just throwing it around like it's paperweight.
He probably just had to reimburse complexity for a bit of labor and contract fee's, Probably not a super high amount, but I bet it was still a blow too his pocket book
I'm sure Millennium is paying Stephano's fine for him. Wouldn't make any sense if they didn't. Yes, Stephano is getting fined and he is paying it, but the moneys coming directly from Millennium.
I am a bit sad we're not seeing Stephano in coL though. I can only imagine what kind of monster Stephano will become when he is playing full-time in Europe. Now change the scenario and put him full-time in KOREA training with DRG. Jesus. Professional players all around the world are probably breathing a sigh of relief.
Guys, I think we should be more sensitive to Stephano. Signing with Complexity is essentially a 1 year+ commitment to becoming an international progamer, doing a lot of travelling and representing your team on the world stage. Thats a big step to take at 18 and a lot of pressure, balanced with strong feeling of security and comradery associated with staying with the home team. While Stephano needs to honor his commitments and make clear decisions, I dont think the any of hate here is justified.
On September 22 2011 13:06 Deezl wrote: Guys, I think we should be more sensitive to Stephano. Signing with Complexity is essentially a 1 year+ commitment to becoming an international progamer, doing a lot of travelling and representing your team on the world stage. Thats a big step to take at 18 and a lot of pressure, balanced with strong feeling of security and comradery associated with staying with the home team. While Stephano needs to honor his commitments and make clear decisions, I dont think the any of hate here is justified.
There is because this whole thing could have been avoided if he just hadn't signed complexities contract and said he wasn't interested lol.
On September 22 2011 13:06 Deezl wrote: Guys, I think we should be more sensitive to Stephano. Signing with Complexity is essentially a 1 year+ commitment to becoming an international progamer, doing a lot of travelling and representing your team on the world stage. Thats a big step to take at 18 and a lot of pressure, balanced with strong feeling of security and comradery associated with staying with the home team. While Stephano needs to honor his commitments and make clear decisions, I dont think the any of hate here is justified.
There is because this whole thing could have been avoided if he just hadn't signed complexities contract and said he wasn't interested lol.
Well isn't that part of being a young adult, to do mistakes?.
Well, he's subject to the fine so w/e, he's taking responsibility for his actions. He certainly made an error of judgment, but I hope he will get this past him and start practising full-time and dominating the world scene.
On September 22 2011 13:06 Deezl wrote: Guys, I think we should be more sensitive to Stephano. Signing with Complexity is essentially a 1 year+ commitment to becoming an international progamer, doing a lot of travelling and representing your team on the world stage. Thats a big step to take at 18 and a lot of pressure, balanced with strong feeling of security and comradery associated with staying with the home team. While Stephano needs to honor his commitments and make clear decisions, I dont think the any of hate here is justified.
There is because this whole thing could have been avoided if he just hadn't signed complexities contract and said he wasn't interested lol.
Well isn't that part of being a young adult, to do mistakes?.
Usually, and then rightfully getting criticized and "hated" on for them. If it's true that he was lieing to coL about counter offers from Millenium(it seems this is the case), then he deserves all the hate he gets and more.
glad to see that this is resolved with the delivery of a penalty. This gives esports the professionalism it needs to further establish itself as a strong industry :D
On September 22 2011 08:10 OasiS.oasis wrote: Very unfortunate for Stephano, I bet this is costing him a lot of money compare to what he has in the bank.
If Millenium is forcing Stephano to pay I dont think he would have stayed there. Stephano got potential and Millenium knows this, he's their Ace so they better hold on to him cause without them they got...
Tarson? Lalush? Tod? Yes this is somewhat good players but nothing compared to Stephano and importantly, what Stephano can become with the right practice, mentality and support from the team!
Man this is all so twisted. Stephano signs a contract and almost instantly void it, why? How can Mill talk badly about coL's approaching Stephano, saying they used 'disorienting special tectiks'... ... when THEY most obviously made him feel guilty (very very disorienting) of leaving his home team, even though his contract was already finished. This is the only fathomable reason for Stephano coming back on his decision, and if my assuption is correct, which I'd bet a 'lot-a-lot' on, it's just a disgustingly selfish move from Mill. As for Stephano, yeah he's just a kid, but usually you know what a contract stands for, and that it stands, period.
On September 22 2011 08:28 Avs wrote: According to coL's Jason:
Stephano told coL he didn't have a contract with Mill, so coL had no real reason to talk to Mill except in due respect. Stephano however told coL that he was constantly in talks with Mills getting counter offers so coL was under the assumption Mill knew all about the situation through Stephano.
This statement seems to pretty much say Stephano is a liar for creating this whole situation by lying somewhere during those 18 days. Does he have a contract? Who knows, and honestly who cares now. He has lost so much respect from the community whether you liked him or not, that it comes down to whether he can keep winning going forward. Hes a strong player, but things like this can jump the shark for people.
Agreed, i always got a bad vibe from stephano ever since HSC, he has this sneaky attitude. Also his little teenage rebellion of saying anything but GG in games pisses me off lol.
I'm happy that this is resolved in a good way, and that we can put this behind us.
Big props to alexander garfield for intermediating, he probably didn't have anything to do with the deal at all seeing that he is one of the leaders of EG, but he still did it, and that's really nice
i don't think you can use the mistake excuse. from what bass said, stephano was telling col that he was getting counter offers from mill that whole time they were negotiating. mill, on the other hand, said they didn't know anything about it. something shady going on with that kid.
On September 22 2011 13:25 TommyMidgets wrote: Man this is all so twisted. Stephano signs a contract and almost instantly void it, why? How can Mill talk badly about coL's approaching Stephano, saying they used 'disorienting special tectiks'... ... when THEY most obviously made him feel guilty (very very disorienting) of leaving his home team, even though his contract was already finished. This is the only fathomable reason for Stephano coming back on his decision, and if my assuption is correct, which I'd bet a 'lot-a-lot' on, it's just a disgustingly selfish move from Mill. As for Stephano, yeah he's just a kid, but usually you know what a contract stands for, and that it stands, period.
Can't you just be happy that you got what the witch's hunt reach its end ? You still want to insult other people, you don't know what happen and you never will, deal with it.
For those who thinks Stephano is an asshole, he has trained a lot with Sheth (and Nerchio), and Sheth is a living paragon of manners and I think he wouldn't train with someone who doesn't respect him.
Sounds like coL gso. Would be interesting to see how much the fine was for. Obviously a 20 dollar fine wouldn't mean much, and wouldn't detur this kind of behavior in the future.
On September 22 2011 13:06 Deezl wrote: Guys, I think we should be more sensitive to Stephano. Signing with Complexity is essentially a 1 year+ commitment to becoming an international progamer, doing a lot of travelling and representing your team on the world stage. Thats a big step to take at 18 and a lot of pressure, balanced with strong feeling of security and comradery associated with staying with the home team. While Stephano needs to honor his commitments and make clear decisions, I dont think the any of hate here is justified.
There is because this whole thing could have been avoided if he just hadn't signed complexities contract and said he wasn't interested lol.
Well isn't that part of being a young adult, to do mistakes?.
You still have to pay for them. In this case, literally.
On September 22 2011 13:36 JimSocks wrote: i don't think you can use the mistake excuse. from what bass said, stephano was telling col that he was getting counter offers from mill that whole time they were negotiating. mill, on the other hand, said they didn't know anything about it. something shady going on with that kid.
No one knows its all speculation. You know what I think? I think Stephano would have loved to goto complexity but got pressured back to millinium
Some of you people are seriously nuts. Most of you know nothing what really happened and half of you want to crucify him for killing Esport.
He is a young adult he properly did some mistakes, Millinium did some mistakes and complexity properly also did some mistakes.
Most of you guys will do mistakes in you life so get of you high horse and stop all the hate
On September 22 2011 13:36 JimSocks wrote: i don't think you can use the mistake excuse. from what bass said, stephano was telling col that he was getting counter offers from mill that whole time they were negotiating. mill, on the other hand, said they didn't know anything about it. something shady going on with that kid.
No one knows its all speculation. You know what I think? I think Stephano would have loved to goto complexity but got pressured back to millinium
Some of you people are seriously nuts. Most of you know nothing what really happened and half of you want to crucify him for killing Esport.
He is a young adult he properly did some mistakes, Millinium did some mistakes and complexity properly also did some mistakes.
Most of you guys will do mistakes in you life so get of you high horse and stop all the hate
And Stephano is the one who broke the contract and now has to pay for it, simple as that. Glad this got resolved and I'm glad that there has been a fine as actions like this are unacceptable. Sure he is 18, but he still screwed up and has to own up to his mistake.
I haven't read most of this thread, only the first couple of pages of comments so maybe this was already mentioned. If I'm understanding the situation from this latest update, Stephano was lying about the counter offers since Mill didn't know that CoL was interested which means that he was purposely driving up the price. If this is what truly happens, pretty sad to see him lying to get a pay check increase assuming he joined CoL at the end, more respect lost XD Either way, glad the situation was resolved peacefully but GL to him with his new image
I'm glad that Complexity and Millennium have come to a mature and respectable agreement, really shows the professional attitude needed for this sport. Also I think it's absolutely fair to hold Stephano responsible for his part in causing this confusion. He is an adult and while he shouldn't be destroyed over this, he should have to pay in some form for the confusion/damages he made (albeit temporarily)
I find it fun that the ~200 pages filled with legal and contract arguments and people speculating wildly on what would happen all were pointless just a day later. People really need to give it time and stop blowing things out of proportion.
It's definitely progress to see that a significant penalty was added for the actions of Stephano and Millennium - this just reassures that esports is moving into the right direction by taking contracts seriously.
I also think it's really cool that EG and coL and Mill are all able to sit down and have a conversation which began with such anger and ended up resolving all problems. Good work on all parties' ends.
On September 22 2011 15:36 Loodah wrote: Why are people even commenting any more? The situation has been resolved. End of story
They are commenting on the resolution. Its a forum, thats what is done here, people talk about issues in the community. You don't have to read the thread.
On September 22 2011 15:36 Loodah wrote: Why are people even commenting any more? The situation has been resolved. End of story
They are commenting on the resolution. Its a forum, thats what is done here, people talk about issues in the community. You don't have to read the thread.
People are still commenting on what happened when it's completely irrelevant - both parties are satisfied with the resolution
On September 22 2011 08:12 Legio wrote: Bad move for Stephano, his skills would improve much more in Korea under Col's banner.
Just wanted to respond to this because i've seen you post about Stephano and korea at least 3 times now. He's explicitly said that he doesn't want to go AND that he wanted to spend a year playing Starcraft 2 which makes going to korea a waste of time.
On September 22 2011 15:36 Loodah wrote: Why are people even commenting any more? The situation has been resolved. End of story
They are commenting on the resolution. Its a forum, thats what is done here, people talk about issues in the community. You don't have to read the thread.
People are still commenting on what happened when it's completely irrelevant - both parties are satisfied with the resolution
While you on the other hand are commenting about people commenting about an issue that you deem unimportant. If you think the original topic is pointless, how much more pointless is what you're saying? And yes, I realize that I'm commenting about a person commenting about people commenting about an issue that has been resolved.
On September 22 2011 08:12 Legio wrote: Bad move for Stephano, his skills would improve much more in Korea under Col's banner.
Just wanted to respond to this because i've seen you post about Stephano and korea at least 3 times now. He's explicitly said that he doesn't want to go AND that he wanted to spend a year playing Starcraft 2 which makes going to korea a waste of time.
jw, when did Stephano himself say that? All I remember is the Mill statement saying he said that.
On September 22 2011 08:12 Legio wrote: Bad move for Stephano, his skills would improve much more in Korea under Col's banner.
Just wanted to respond to this because i've seen you post about Stephano and korea at least 3 times now. He's explicitly said that he doesn't want to go AND that he wanted to spend a year playing Starcraft 2 which makes going to korea a waste of time.
jw, when did Stephano himself say that? All I remember is the Mill statement saying he said that.
He said so on the Sheth/Destiny stream marathon from what i remember.
On September 22 2011 15:36 Loodah wrote: Why are people even commenting any more? The situation has been resolved. End of story
They are commenting on the resolution. Its a forum, thats what is done here, people talk about issues in the community. You don't have to read the thread.
People are still commenting on what happened when it's completely irrelevant - both parties are satisfied with the resolution
Its a forum. Thats what happens here. If you don't want to be a part of the conversation, just don't read it. Simple as that.
And just because you think something is irrelevant, doesn't mean it is.
Stephano comes off even worse than before tbh. Not only did he break a contract he signed, he apparently also lied to coL about Mill being counterbidding over coL's bids. I guess he wanted to milk some extra money off coL....
Overall kinda well handled by both Mill and coL. Stephano should rethink his actions in the future, which I have no doubt he will. He is still young and a lot of this can probably be explained by that. Hopefully he can keep evolving as a player now and use this as an important lesson learned.
On September 22 2011 08:12 Legio wrote: Bad move for Stephano, his skills would improve much more in Korea under Col's banner.
Just wanted to respond to this because i've seen you post about Stephano and korea at least 3 times now. He's explicitly said that he doesn't want to go AND that he wanted to spend a year playing Starcraft 2 which makes going to korea a waste of time.
oh shush, Stephano didn't make any statement. Don't say things that comes out from your mouth or heard things that didn't come for the person himself. He is only stating his opinion while you are stating a fact that is untrue. Anyways what done is done and it got settled in good terms. Please don't make this a NA VS EU discussion.
On September 22 2011 08:12 Legio wrote: Bad move for Stephano, his skills would improve much more in Korea under Col's banner.
Just wanted to respond to this because i've seen you post about Stephano and korea at least 3 times now. He's explicitly said that he doesn't want to go AND that he wanted to spend a year playing Starcraft 2 which makes going to korea a waste of time.
oh shush, Stephano didn't make any statement. Don't say things that comes out from your mouth or heard things that didn't come for the person himself. He is only stating his opinion while you are stating a fact that is untrue. Anyways what done is done and it got settled in good terms. Please don't make this a NA VS EU discussion.
It came from Stephano on the Destiny/Sheth stream marathon so you shush.
Im glad its all sorted, and im happy to see that coL are fighting to make sure that things such as contracts in esports are not things to be scoffed at and ignored. this is a positive step for esports... at the expense of stephanos wallet tho lol
I'm glad this has been settled, kind of sad but indeed necessary that Stephano has to pay a fine, I hope it doesn't affect his play at all. I wonder how much he has to pay and how he feels about this. It really sounds like he was the problem in this situation or perhaps both teams just left him out to dry.
great to see things got sorted, hoepfully both teams move on forward from this and Complexity sign someone instead of Stephano!!! Seeing that theyw ere singing Nani anyway!!!
so whats in it for evil genius? they must have a masterplan to do something this kind! :D
awesome job, nice to see something like this can be settled!
i don't understand though why in e-sports nobody ever comes out with any numbers... what is "a strong penalty" in form of a fine? does Stephano pay it by himself or is he supported by Millenium? would be nice to know... investive journalism in starcraft ftw.
On September 22 2011 17:21 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: so whats in it for evil genius? they must have a masterplan to do something this kind! :D
awesome job, nice to see something like this can be settled!
i don't understand though why in e-sports nobody ever comes out with any numbers... what is "a strong penalty" in form of a fine? does Stephano pay it by himself or is he supported by Millenium? would be nice to know... investive journalism in starcraft ftw.
Honestly I think it's best that we don't know all that yet. The amount isn't important anyway, what's important is that a correct precedent was set here. This was a bad situation, highlighting the many issues possible between players and teams. Complexity and Mill handled it the best they could, and set a proper precedent.
With all the possibilities for errors and legal issues with contracts between international parties (especially when teams are to young to have any dedicated legal council much less one with experience in that particular country's law) the scene can't afford to have perfect legalities, but a set of community guidelines is something that is needed. Contracts NEED to matter for the scene to have a healthy existence. You take away contract legitimacy and sponsorships will go down the drain because no one wants to invest in a scene where their star player can suddenly switch to another team with no repercussions.
A few years from now, I'd absolutely love to know all of those details. But right now I think we should all just be happy this was solved in a way that sets a good precedent for the future (regardless of any possible vagueness of the specific situation).
Good to see this resolved. I'm also happier that stephano got fined. I know its harsh but it has to be a harsh penalty to walk away from a signed contract.
We don't expect any less from other professional athletes. E-sports should be the same in my opinion.
What?? Alex Garfield was involved in this? I knew EG had something to do with this.. hehe
I'm glad they worked it out.. it's like regular sports, if a team forces a player both parties will lose in the end because a angry/unhappy player won't deserve the support of the team and the team would be better off spending on another player..
For me this situation is resolved in the best way possible, Stephano stays with the team he wants, Col gets some money off this situation and cleans their image and Millenium gets the player and also cleans their image..
So the story is over, but Stephano's part seems to be what really fucked it all up to start with, he's definitely lost some good will in all this, so Millenium got their player, now with less good will, and he also has to pay coL. I just really think it seems like Stephano acted like an arse in all of this...
On September 22 2011 17:25 motiust wrote: And I'm sure Stephano didn't get any fine, as this is all but a save-face statement for coL and Mill
Don't even say shit like that. Why do people constantly think that their opinion requires posting when it is in contrary to all information?
I for one think this is the best outcome that we could have had, it set a precedent for not screwing teams over, and no-one had to go to litigation, which i think would have weakened the image of both teams.
Good job Col, Alex Garfield and millennium. And i wish you luck in the future stephano.
PS by the openness that Col dealt with this, i have become a huge CoL fan.
On September 22 2011 18:19 BobMcJohnson wrote: Well good news I guess
In the end who does Stephano end up playing for? Millenium? or neither of the two teams?
Millenium.
And to the post asking what does EG have to do with this, on Lo3 Jason Bass mentioned that Alex Garfield has been talking with major teams about forming something like the G7, but better, which is badly needed to help prevent something like this from happening again among other things.
dunno, somehow it feels to me that Stephano took part of the blame for Mill, considering how Mill. badmouthed compLexity in their first public statement. But maybe that's just what Stephano told them and they only believed their players (which is a good thing).
On September 22 2011 08:16 youngminii wrote: Sucks that Complexity comes out on the bottom end.
There was no good coming of this from the Col side, they lost a great player in a horrible fashion that cause a lot of drama. At the end of the day you can only get money because you cant force a player to play for you if he clearly does not want to
QFT--if a player doesnt want to play for you they just wont try, otherwise you can a) punish the player/other team financially and get money b) punish the player/other team and if the contract has some non-competition agreement for some period of time, disallow him from competing for another team.
glad they finished the drama in a civilized "real-world" fashion - I would've been dissatisfied if col had just dropped it completely; this is good for esports as in the future, hopefully, nobody will sign a contract light-hearted
so basically stephano got f*d it's a real life lesson for him. anyway I think he would've probably been better off with complexity for they're a bigger team
It kind of irks me that Stephano was the one who got screwed at the end of the day. While I realize it sets a president to contracted players, it still seemed like the whole controversy was Complexity and Millenium convincing him to stay with their teams.
So now that he listened to both of them, he gets screwed. That really sucks. And of course there's nothing he can do about it, he's just an 18 year old kid. He's essentially taking the blame for what both companies did.
On September 22 2011 20:59 Cobbbler wrote: He's essentially taking the blame for what both companies did.
wut? how could anyone possibly bring the "bad big companies screwing the small, innocent boy" into this?
in the middle-ages, people were considered "mature" and went to war at the age of 15 for crying out loud. If you don't know what to do and what not to do at the age of 18, you have bigger problems than buying yourself out of a contract. I'd even consider this as a pretty big insult to stephano...to say, he's just a kid who has no idea how reallife works.
He made a mistake, should face it, learn from it, grow from it. No long-term-harm done. But seeing how many people blame col/Mill for that just makes me mad.
So with shitty logic from me, col had a contract. Would have been impossible to enforce due to France laws where you can possibly break a contract within a certain time frame if you didn't make use of it, or due to the fact that it would be legal to leave a certain length job for indeterminate length one. At most they could have made life hard for Stephano in the US, but spending a lot of money and not getting their player.
Mill's counteroffer was high enough, they didn't break any laws to get him back just a bit of their image due to col not taking into account the full extent of French laws that, like most socialist countries, defend the weaker partner in a contract (I can, in Romania, break a loan contract with a bank within 15 days of signing, without any reason, as long as I didn't make use of the money).
Stephano was indecisive and I think someone posted here he's a bit distracted. For a young man that does lead to a lot of issues. All part of growing up. No doubt he will learn something from this, he seems smart enough.
On September 22 2011 21:24 starmeat_ wrote: Looks like Stephano got effed over for the incompetence of Complexity to approach Millenium when they were showing interest in Stephano.
Teams need to deal with teams. Teams should not approach players behind other teams backs.
Oh my gosh...
Seriously?
No, it doesn't look like that at all. Not if you read through any of the threads about this.
On September 22 2011 21:24 starmeat_ wrote: Looks like Stephano got effed over for the incompetence of Complexity to approach Millenium when they were showing interest in Stephano.
Teams need to deal with teams. Teams should not approach players behind other teams backs.
Teams need to deal with teams when players are contracted to them, otherwise they have no claim to them.
This was established during the EG/TSL incident, and back then the only reason to be negative about EG's approach was because of the cultural difference and Koreans by and large avoiding contracting their players, it was scene as taking advantage of a cultural difference. However, with the resolved, it was established for TSL and every team(that was and should have been paying attention) that if your players are not contracted, other teams do not have to contact you.
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
I'm so tired with the "millenium will send stephano only in French event" -_-
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
Please guys, stop saying that Stephano will only play french events with Millenium this is not true, he is certainly going to the next MLG.
I've also read a few time that he lost his chances to go to korea by not going to col, which is not true neither!! It has been clearly said on Millenium's stream that Stephano doesn't want to go to Korea for a long period but only for a couple of months which he will be able to do with Millenium. The difference with ToD is that he wanted to go to Korea for a longer period, and this wasn't in the plans of M, because of the low visibilty in France/EU for a player living in KR compare to the investment.
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
I'm so tired with the "millenium will send stephano only in French event" -_-
That's pretty much what the guy from Millenium said if I remember correctly.
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
Because IPL3 , MLG orlando and dreamhack winter are french events. He wont focus only on french scene, that was misinformation that was spread few days ago
If I recall Jason Lake is a lawyer, I wouldn't have tried any funny business like that under his watch. On the other side, that's what coL gets for hiring a frenchman.
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
I'm so tired with the "millenium will send stephano only in French event" -_-
That's pretty much what the guy from Millenium said if I remember correctly.
I thought he just said that Stephano would not be going to Korea... although I could have missed something explaining that Stephano's prospects would be even more exclusive.
Stephano is ofc not the first to get paid, but he is the first to actually have a real working contract by french law, with minimun wage, social protection, etc.
Edit: well moman had a real contract with his previous team cybernation, but he was officially working in the cybercafe, and was not playing full time.
On September 22 2011 22:23 BoBiNoU wrote: Positive thing out of this is that France gets its first SC2 programer with Stephano
moman, adel scott, SarenS, and ToD don't count?
EDIT: Forgot about AureS.... I mean team millenium is like an all french team right?
EDIT 2: Nope, Millen is not an all french team, but if you look it up there're actually quite a few french pro teams!
I don't know how to explain this very well, but he is the first one who got a worker contract, so some of the money goes to his pension fund, health insurance etc.
Alex Garfield did a good thing for EG's PR, now I have seen it all! On a more serious note, I'm glad we avoided legal actions. Stephano paying a fine will still send a message to players without all the added drama of litigation.
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
I'm so tired with the "millenium will send stephano only in French event" -_-
That's pretty much what the guy from Millenium said if I remember correctly.
They send they'll not drop the french E-sport scene and send Stephano to these french event, UNLESS there is some EU/world event where Stephano is invited/qualified/interested to go.
Talking about EU event, i'd like if someone remember what Llewellys said about dreamhack Valencia : - Stephano wasn't invited ? - Stephano/Mill wasn't interested to go ? They said something about it, but I don't remember
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
I'm so tired with the "millenium will send stephano only in French event" -_-
That's pretty much what the guy from Millenium said if I remember correctly.
That's exactly what the Millenium SC2 manager said on stream. However, it seems like a lot of things he said on that stream have been pulled back by the organization as a whole. For example, he also said that they were just going to purposefully ignore coL's emails, whereas the current M statement says that it was "time differences" that made them delay talking to coL. He also said the "disorienting" thing.
I think what happened is probably that the Millenium sc2 guy was awake when the overall boss(es) of the team were asleep or offline, and he was being blusterey and nationalistic on stream, but that he wasn't actually pronouncing team policy or talking based on any long term plans they actually made.
On September 22 2011 22:35 Darkthur wrote: Stephano is ofc not the first to get paid, but he is the first to actually have a real working contract by french law, with minimun wage, social protection, etc.
Edit: well moman had a real contract with his previous team cybernation, but he was officially working in the cybercafe, and was not playing full time.
What about ToD when he was playing Warcraft three? Wasn't he like the second best western player?
On September 22 2011 21:26 freewareplayer wrote: So he will mainly only play french events, has to pay own money as fine, and likely wont reach his full potential at millenium...
shouldve stayed with complexity..
I'm so tired with the "millenium will send stephano only in French event" -_-
That's pretty much what the guy from Millenium said if I remember correctly.
That's exactly what the Millenium SC2 manager said on stream. However, it seems like a lot of things he said on that stream have been pulled back by the organization as a whole. For example, he also said that they were just going to purposefully ignore coL's emails, whereas the current M statement says that it was "time differences" that made them delay talking to coL. He also said the "disorienting" thing.
I think what happened is probably that the Millenium sc2 guy was awake when the overall boss(es) of the team were asleep or offline, and he was being blusterey and nationalistic on stream, but that he wasn't actually pronouncing team policy or talking based on any long term plans they actually made.
Did you listen the stream or did you read something because this not what he said on his stream .... He never said he won't answer the mails, he had a programed showmatch to stream with players not involved in the "drama" so they deserved to be streamed before, and coL mails could wait. It's also not him who talked about a "disorienting" thing, contrary he said it was a bit too much to say that !!
On September 22 2011 22:23 BoBiNoU wrote: Positive thing out of this is that France gets its first SC2 programer with Stephano
moman, adel scott, SarenS, and ToD don't count?
EDIT: Forgot about AureS.... I mean team millenium is like an all french team right?
EDIT 2: Nope, Millen is not an all french team, but if you look it up there're actually quite a few french pro teams!
I think Millenium said he was the first french SC2 progamer as in he is the only one with a real working contract (with taxes, social security and all that stuff...)
At least there isn't a major lawsuit surrounding ESPORTS drama.
I still don't like this resolution, but complexity seemed very determined to prove that their contract was legitimate and that millenium was indebted to coL. I guess it is the best that we could have hoped for.
On September 22 2011 23:01 strongandbig wrote: That's exactly what the Millenium SC2 manager said on stream. However, it seems like a lot of things he said on that stream have been pulled back by the organization as a whole. For example, he also said that they were just going to purposefully ignore coL's emails, whereas the current M statement says that it was "time differences" that made them delay talking to coL. He also said the "disorienting" thing.
I think what happened is probably that the Millenium sc2 guy was awake when the overall boss(es) of the team were asleep or offline, and he was being blusterey and nationalistic on stream, but that he wasn't actually pronouncing team policy or talking based on any long term plans they actually made.
So you speak french right ? If you don't, then you can't possibly know for sure, and based on personal experience, I would say that Americans speaking french are very uncommon even on the internet. They said they had other things to do (aka casting a Showmatch between 2 players who had nothing to do with the story) and they wanted to think about the proper action before answering which is better than most of the TLers have done on the subject.
Also I'd like you to show some respect for a team manager that has done more for his team and competitive gaming in France than you ever will in your country.
On topic, I'm glad that this is resolved and that there was a penalty for breaching the contract. I hope this signals the start of serious eSports contracts and kickstarts a world where contracting players actually means something.
On September 22 2011 22:58 Dandy_Moustachu wrote: Talking about EU event, i'd like if someone remember what Llewellys said about dreamhack Valencia : - Stephano wasn't invited ? - Stephano/Mill wasn't interested to go ? They said something about it, but I don't remember
If I remember correctly, he said he was not interested or available to go there but it was not a problem because he knew he was invited to the main event.
On September 22 2011 08:10 OasiS.oasis wrote: Very unfortunate for Stephano, I bet this is costing him a lot of money compare to what he has in the bank.
That's kind of the price you pay for signing a contract and backing out???
This solution is actually kind of funny in a way. I'm sure a lot of people were expecting the two teams to fight of Stephano, but this is quite the opposite.
maybe its just me but i found this extemly confusing, and rather over hyped for a player who (lets face it) isnt even that good. anyways i hope stephano dosent quit or something from this rather bad experiance.
On September 23 2011 17:04 Panzerfaust7 wrote: maybe its just me but i found this extemly confusing, and rather over hyped for a player who (lets face it) isnt even that good. anyways i hope stephano dosent quit or something from this rather bad experiance.
Not sure if you're a troll or just really clueless.
===
Glad both sides came to an agreement, but sucks to see Stephano hurting himself like this. The Col deal sounded like a super sweet offer, while I don't see Millenium doing anywhere near as much for his future.
Im glad that they solved this as grownups (despite some of them being kids )
its something very different from the Swedish community I grew up in where contracts didnt matter and people generally were idiots. Really glad to see the community has come this far.
Lastly, compLexity and Millenium would also like to thank Alexander Garfield of Evil Geniuses for acting as the mediator of our discussions during this challenging time.
kind of interesting. seeing the same things that happend in wc3 and everything is old to me but the sc2 community didnt really learned how it is to be the mainstream game. myb people should start to learn from the past in esport. then most of this "dramas" would not be such a big drama. i know usa is new to it cause you basicly played no role in wc3 / cs what have been the big games in esport.
so plz team liquid community: sb with actually better english then me (plz) should just read a bit in esport history and do some education articles.
Why do people keep saying that '' Stephano would be better off with complexity as he would be able to train in Korea since they have partnered up with MVP ''
How many Complexity players do you know that are in Korea ??? Seriously ??? All the Col players I know of are NOT in Korea & don't train with Koreans.
On September 26 2011 14:43 crackcc wrote: Im confused !
Why do people keep saying that '' Stephano would be better off with complexity as he would be able to train in Korea since they have partnered up with MVP ''
How many Complexity players do you know that are in Korea ??? Seriously ??? All the Col players I know of are NOT in Korea & don't train with Koreans.
Naniwa. And Drewbie. Don't know if Drewbie is still there though.
On September 26 2011 14:43 crackcc wrote: Im confused !
Why do people keep saying that '' Stephano would be better off with complexity as he would be able to train in Korea since they have partnered up with MVP ''
How many Complexity players do you know that are in Korea ??? Seriously ??? All the Col players I know of are NOT in Korea & don't train with Koreans.
Naniwa. And Drewbie. Don't know if Drewbie is still there though.
Right but what about rsvp ryan Ryze CrunCher CatZ Minigun Trimaster
Only Naniwa & Drewbie ( maybe ) are in Korea. What makes you think that they would send Stehpano to Korea and not 80% of their roster ?
It's really easy to say '' I would have done this for you & given you this ... if you would have stayed with us '' ! I'm sure that if going to Korea was in Stephanos contract he wouldn't have gone back to Mil. Same goes for the money. I can understand that loyalty to your team & national pride can tip the scale if the difference is not to big, but if the money was way more then the Mil contract then Stephano would have gone to Col.
Much like Huk & Puma, if the contracts from their former teams would have been near their new contract they would have stayed for loyatly to their team/players/country etc ... but if the difference is huge then they will make the right decision. They're not stupid !
Its just too easy to say '' If you would have stayed with me I would have given you the world ... but ... its too late now ''. The only way this could actually be true or at least believable is if they would give HUGE contracts to ALL their players & send then ALL to Korea ! Otherwise its just a desperate & pitiful way of saying '' You made the wrong choice & you'll regret it ''.
I am glad that Col & Mil settled their conflict in a proper & mature way, much like a professional, ''real'' sports team would, & not the '' internet way '' where proper laws are not respected & teams bad mouth each other on their websites ( Kind of like what Mil started to do on the Stephano incident ).
On September 26 2011 14:43 crackcc wrote: Im confused !
Why do people keep saying that '' Stephano would be better off with complexity as he would be able to train in Korea since they have partnered up with MVP ''
How many Complexity players do you know that are in Korea ??? Seriously ??? All the Col players I know of are NOT in Korea & don't train with Koreans.
Naniwa. And Drewbie. Don't know if Drewbie is still there though.
Right but what about rsvp ryan Ryze CrunCher CatZ Minigun Trimaster
Only Naniwa & Drewbie ( maybe ) are in Korea. What makes you think that they would send Stehpano to Korea and not 80% of their roster ?
It's really easy to say '' I would have done this for you & given you this ... if you would have stayed with us '' ! I'm sure that if going to Korea was in Stephanos contract he wouldn't have gone back to Mil. Same goes for the money. I can understand that loyalty to your team & national pride can tip the scale if the difference is not to big, but if the money was way more then the Mil contract then Stephano would have gone to Col.
Much like Huk & Puma, if the contracts from their former teams would have been near their new contract they would have stayed for loyatly to their team/players/country etc ... but if the difference is huge then they will make the right decision. They're not stupid !
Its just too easy to say '' If you would have stayed with me I would have given you the world ... but ... its too late now ''. The only way this could actually be true or at least believable is if they would give HUGE contracts to ALL their players & send then ALL to Korea ! Otherwise its just a desperate & pitiful way of saying '' You made the wrong choice & you'll regret it ''.
I am glad that Col & Mil settled their conflict in a proper & mature way, much like a professional, ''real'' sports team would, & not the '' internet way '' where proper laws are not respected & teams bad mouth each other on their websites ( Kind of like what Mil started to do on the Stephano incident ).
Complexity hasn't had the deal with MVP for very long. I'm sure some of their players don't want to go to Korea either. To say only Drewbie and Naniwa have gone is short sighted. How many Millennium players have gone? CoL has some of the best resources in the entire scene to support their players in Korea. Only Liquid and FXO match them right now. EG will be added to that list once they get their team house set up. If you don't think coL would send him to Korea, if thats what he wanted, well you are just being naive. They know how good Stephano is and how good he could be with time in Korea.
And Drewbie is still in Korea, he will be there until MLG Orlando.
How many teams have supported their players in Korea without MLG help? FXO, Liquid and EG are the only ones I can think of (besides coL). All the Dignitas guys qualified through MLG and get stuff paid for by GOM/MLG.
To suggest that coL wouldn't have actually sent him to Korea is just dumb when they have all the resources to do so.
My only remaining question about this whole affair is whether all those brand new French accounts were actually legit people or smurfs. I actually suspected they might have been smurfs of a genius who was anti-Mill and was just purposefully trying to make the defense posts look terrible in an attempt to discredit the team.
On September 26 2011 14:43 crackcc wrote: Im confused !
Why do people keep saying that '' Stephano would be better off with complexity as he would be able to train in Korea since they have partnered up with MVP ''
How many Complexity players do you know that are in Korea ??? Seriously ??? All the Col players I know of are NOT in Korea & don't train with Koreans.
Naniwa. And Drewbie. Don't know if Drewbie is still there though.
Right but what about rsvp ryan Ryze CrunCher CatZ Minigun Trimaster
Only Naniwa & Drewbie ( maybe ) are in Korea. What makes you think that they would send Stehpano to Korea and not 80% of their roster ?
It's really easy to say '' I would have done this for you & given you this ... if you would have stayed with us '' ! I'm sure that if going to Korea was in Stephanos contract he wouldn't have gone back to Mil. Same goes for the money. I can understand that loyalty to your team & national pride can tip the scale if the difference is not to big, but if the money was way more then the Mil contract then Stephano would have gone to Col.
Much like Huk & Puma, if the contracts from their former teams would have been near their new contract they would have stayed for loyatly to their team/players/country etc ... but if the difference is huge then they will make the right decision. They're not stupid !
Its just too easy to say '' If you would have stayed with me I would have given you the world ... but ... its too late now ''. The only way this could actually be true or at least believable is if they would give HUGE contracts to ALL their players & send then ALL to Korea ! Otherwise its just a desperate & pitiful way of saying '' You made the wrong choice & you'll regret it ''.
I am glad that Col & Mil settled their conflict in a proper & mature way, much like a professional, ''real'' sports team would, & not the '' internet way '' where proper laws are not respected & teams bad mouth each other on their websites ( Kind of like what Mil started to do on the Stephano incident ).
Do you really think that if they were going to pay Stephano a bunch of money, already have partners in Korea, and already have 2 of their own players in Korea that they couldn't simply work out a deal to get him to Korea, especially when that was one of his goals? Really? Do you really think that? ???
The title is : "GSL is not one of my goal" He dont even watch gsl.
You didn't understand his point. He said that if he goes to Korea one day it will be to train and not especially to win GSL. GSL is not his goal, but going to Korea to train would interest him.
On September 26 2011 14:43 crackcc wrote: Im confused !
Why do people keep saying that '' Stephano would be better off with complexity as he would be able to train in Korea since they have partnered up with MVP ''
How many Complexity players do you know that are in Korea ??? Seriously ??? All the Col players I know of are NOT in Korea & don't train with Koreans.
Naniwa. And Drewbie. Don't know if Drewbie is still there though.
Right but what about rsvp ryan Ryze CrunCher CatZ Minigun Trimaster
Only Naniwa & Drewbie ( maybe ) are in Korea. What makes you think that they would send Stehpano to Korea and not 80% of their roster ?
It's really easy to say '' I would have done this for you & given you this ... if you would have stayed with us '' ! I'm sure that if going to Korea was in Stephanos contract he wouldn't have gone back to Mil. Same goes for the money. I can understand that loyalty to your team & national pride can tip the scale if the difference is not to big, but if the money was way more then the Mil contract then Stephano would have gone to Col.
Much like Huk & Puma, if the contracts from their former teams would have been near their new contract they would have stayed for loyatly to their team/players/country etc ... but if the difference is huge then they will make the right decision. They're not stupid !
Its just too easy to say '' If you would have stayed with me I would have given you the world ... but ... its too late now ''. The only way this could actually be true or at least believable is if they would give HUGE contracts to ALL their players & send then ALL to Korea ! Otherwise its just a desperate & pitiful way of saying '' You made the wrong choice & you'll regret it ''.
I am glad that Col & Mil settled their conflict in a proper & mature way, much like a professional, ''real'' sports team would, & not the '' internet way '' where proper laws are not respected & teams bad mouth each other on their websites ( Kind of like what Mil started to do on the Stephano incident ).
Complexity hasn't had the deal with MVP for very long. I'm sure some of their players don't want to go to Korea either. To say only Drewbie and Naniwa have gone is short sighted. How many Millennium players have gone? CoL has some of the best resources in the entire scene to support their players in Korea. Only Liquid and FXO match them right now. EG will be added to that list once they get their team house set up. If you don't think coL would send him to Korea, if thats what he wanted, well you are just being naive. They know how good Stephano is and how good he could be with time in Korea.
And Drewbie is still in Korea, he will be there until MLG Orlando.
How many teams have supported their players in Korea without MLG help? FXO, Liquid and EG are the only ones I can think of (besides coL). All the Dignitas guys qualified through MLG and get stuff paid for by GOM/MLG.
To suggest that coL wouldn't have actually sent him to Korea is just dumb when they have all the resources to do so.
To say only drewbie and naniwa have gone to kora is not short sighted its a fact ! How else do you want to put it ... its a fact. No player more or less has gone to korea from Col !
'' Has gone '' & not '' will possibly go '' is what we are talking about. If you mix the two ( have gone & may go ) is like saying somethin along the lines of : '' Saying Destiny hasen't won MLG yet is short sighted, he is activly training & plans to compete in the next couple of MLGs. If he hasen't won before he probably didn't want to win yet ''. LOL
If you're sure that many of the Col don't want to go to korea ( seriously ? ) then why don't you think the same about stephano ? Especially since he has stated that Gsl is not a priority for him & many of the Col players ( other then naniwa & drewbie ) have never mentioned their lack of interest in Gsl ( I can imagine Catz & Trimaster would like to go to Korea ) ! Its easy to say '' ohh you could have gone to korea if you would have stayed with us '' While the majority of Col players are not in Korea.
As for the other dude below you who said that Col sends their players to more tournaments. I don't think thats true either. Many Mil players go to mlg not to mention ALL the european tournaments that they qualify for. As for Col not many of their players have been flown out to european tournaments ... off the top of my head I can't think of any players that went to european tournaments ( while on team Complexity. This is very important as many of them have flown to different tournaments like naniwa for instance but while on another team ), but I could be VERY wrong as I don't really follow the Col players other then naniwa catz & drewbie & they haven't been with Col for very long.
Anyways I don't know how you can talk about the tuture as if it were fact like '' they will send more players to Korea ''.
My point was, and if you think about it, it makes sense no ; If going to korea ( or getting a huge salary ) was in stephanos contract ( or even if it had been promised to him ) he would have stayed with Col ... Basically all the people saying that Col would have been a much much much better deal for Stephano are insulting his intelligence.
It's like Huk & Puma, same example. These guys are not stupid. If the deal is life changing they wil leave their team ( even huge, famous & legendary teams like team liquid, who also send players to korea ) & leave their country & teamates & coach ( who they owe their career to & have deen ties of friendship like Huk did ) for the better contract.
So saying that the Col deal for stephano was much better ( in any way ), and I emphasize on the MUCH part as I'm fairly certain that the pay would have been better with Col but apparantly not enough for it to really matter like it did for Huk & Puma, well if it was much better then the Mil deal then Stephano would have stayed with Col. To say otherwise is seriously demeaning & frankly insulting to Stephano.
Anyways thats my take on this thing :D ... I'm sorry if I repeat myself or don't make sense at times I can't proof read this I'm super super tired ... my eyes shut a ffew times writing this
EPT
)
I liked Stephano before this. I guess no one taught him what a contract is.
