What are you talking about all-most the same players at Blizzon was at Assemply summer + the top of EU and others "Nada, Sen"
You cant even compare it Assemply together with Dreamhack and ESL is the biggest lan in Europe you preatty clueless if you think otherwise
So you ignore the fact Stephano didn't actually win, he came third. Which was my original point, that winning Blizzcon EU is better than coming third at Assembly, and when you factor in Ret's own Assembly win (yes win, not third place) there's really no reason to rate Stephano above Ret right now. Kas, Happy and Goody have proven that online cups don't mean anything. Stephano needs to get himself a big LAN (or IPL/TSL level online tourny) win before I will consider him alongside top foreigners like Dimaga, Idra, White Ra, Select, Ret, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain. Results do matter and they're much more important than how nice his play looked on his stream or how many Craft Cup's he won vs Elfi.
First, Stephano only came third because he lost ZvZ gambling vs Dimaga. That was more luck then skill. I dont know why playing under horrible conditions in offline events like @ Assembly should have more value then online cups. I also don't know which offline event was won by Idra, White-Ra, Naniwa or Select that makes them top foreigners in your eyes, while Happy, Kas or Goody are not in your list (all by far better then Idra).
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
LoL is getting really big O>O so happy its going to be in IPL :D but i personally have trouble watching DotA type games :\ but thats just me still love the game and excited for MC, Ret, and all the other players in IPL
On September 22 2011 11:29 Blasphemi wrote: [quote]
So you ignore the fact Stephano didn't actually win, he came third. Which was my original point, that winning Blizzcon EU is better than coming third at Assembly, and when you factor in Ret's own Assembly win (yes win, not third place) there's really no reason to rate Stephano above Ret right now. Kas, Happy and Goody have proven that online cups don't mean anything. Stephano needs to get himself a big LAN (or IPL/TSL level online tourny) win before I will consider him alongside top foreigners like Dimaga, Idra, White Ra, Select, Ret, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain. Results do matter and they're much more important than how nice his play looked on his stream or how many Craft Cup's he won vs Elfi.
First, Stephano only came third because he lost ZvZ gambling vs Dimaga. That was more luck then skill. I dont know why playing under horrible conditions in offline events like @ Assembly should have more value then online cups. I also don't know which offline event was won by Idra, White-Ra, Naniwa or Select that makes them top foreigners in your eyes, while Happy, Kas or Goody are not in your list (all by far better then Idra).
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
Well my question is how do we foster new players then? Because what should new players do? if it isn't enough to place 3rd in IGN season 2 to get an invite. What should up and coming players do?
Where is EU and US DRG? if we go back 6months ago. No one knew who DRG was but he got a shot and is now a huge star. Our young talents don't get any chance to come out and show them self.
The Korean scene foster new talents all the time Puma,DRG,Ryung,Bomber. no1 had heard about these players 6 months ago.
Where is the foreign scene talents?
I´ll tell you where they are they sitting and winning on-line cups because that's all they can do but apparently that's not enough.
First, Stephano only came third because he lost ZvZ gambling vs Dimaga. That was more luck then skill. I dont know why playing under horrible conditions in offline events like @ Assembly should have more value then online cups. I also don't know which offline event was won by Idra, White-Ra, Naniwa or Select that makes them top foreigners in your eyes, while Happy, Kas or Goody are not in your list (all by far better then Idra).
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
Well my question is how do we foster new players then? Because what should new players do? if it isn't enough to place 3rd in IGN season 2 to get an invite. What should up and coming players do?
Where is EU and US DRG? if we go back 6months ago. No one knew who DRG was but he got a shot and is now a huge star. Our young talents don't get any chance to come out and show them self.
The Korean scene foster new talents all the time Puma,DRG,Ryung,Bomber. no1 had heard about these players 6 months ago.
Where is the foreign scene talents?
I´ll tell you where they are they sitting and winning on-line cups because that's all they can do but apparently that's not enough.
I think you're blowing this a little out of proportion. It isn't that getting 3rd isn't enough to get an invite, it definitely does. It was just that there are other great options out there as well. We are also giving people a chance to prove themselves through our online and live qualifiers as well, in terms of new talent.
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
Well my question is how do we foster new players then? Because what should new players do? if it isn't enough to place 3rd in IGN season 2 to get an invite. What should up and coming players do?
Where is EU and US DRG? if we go back 6months ago. No one knew who DRG was but he got a shot and is now a huge star. Our young talents don't get any chance to come out and show them self.
The Korean scene foster new talents all the time Puma,DRG,Ryung,Bomber. no1 had heard about these players 6 months ago.
Where is the foreign scene talents?
I´ll tell you where they are they sitting and winning on-line cups because that's all they can do but apparently that's not enough.
I think you're blowing this a little out of proportion. It isn't that getting 3rd isn't enough to get an invite, it definitely does. It was just that there are other great options out there as well. We are also giving people a chance to prove themselves through our online and live qualifiers as well, in terms of new talent.
Maybe its a little out of proportion but the question had to be asked. I find it all-most impossible for new players in the foreign scene to get a shot because organisations always go with players that is well-known. It makes sense for a business aspect but its destroying the talent development.
And this is not just IGN its the entire scene. Dreamhack,NASL,ESL etc..
Don´t get me wrong I love IGN and think you doing an amazing job. I just wish the foreign scene would also focus about showcasing up and coming players.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
Well my question is how do we foster new players then? Because what should new players do? if it isn't enough to place 3rd in IGN season 2 to get an invite. What should up and coming players do?
Where is EU and US DRG? if we go back 6months ago. No one knew who DRG was but he got a shot and is now a huge star. Our young talents don't get any chance to come out and show them self.
The Korean scene foster new talents all the time Puma,DRG,Ryung,Bomber. no1 had heard about these players 6 months ago.
Where is the foreign scene talents?
I´ll tell you where they are they sitting and winning on-line cups because that's all they can do but apparently that's not enough.
I think you're blowing this a little out of proportion. It isn't that getting 3rd isn't enough to get an invite, it definitely does. It was just that there are other great options out there as well. We are also giving people a chance to prove themselves through our online and live qualifiers as well, in terms of new talent.
Maybe its a little out of proportion but the question had to be asked. I find it all-most impossible for new players in the foreign scene to get a shot because organisations always go with players that is well-known. It makes sense for a business aspect but its destroying the talent development.
And this is not just IGN its the entire scene. Dreamhack,NASL,ESL etc..
Don´t get me wrong I love IGN and think you doing an amazing job. I just wish the foreign scene would also focus about showcasing up and coming players.
Here's the thing and I may be wrong, but nericho didn't sign up for 1 IPL 3 qualifier, while stephano did obviously so he gets props for that. Also, a ton of euros didn't sign up for any qualifiers, which I didn't understand. This was their shot to win a qualifier and get a free trip to IPL 3, yet the majority of the euro pros, and NA pros chose to stay on the sidelines. So, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them, when they chose not to compete in the qualifiers.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
Well my question is how do we foster new players then? Because what should new players do? if it isn't enough to place 3rd in IGN season 2 to get an invite. What should up and coming players do?
Where is EU and US DRG? if we go back 6months ago. No one knew who DRG was but he got a shot and is now a huge star. Our young talents don't get any chance to come out and show them self.
The Korean scene foster new talents all the time Puma,DRG,Ryung,Bomber. no1 had heard about these players 6 months ago.
Where is the foreign scene talents?
I´ll tell you where they are they sitting and winning on-line cups because that's all they can do but apparently that's not enough.
I think you're blowing this a little out of proportion. It isn't that getting 3rd isn't enough to get an invite, it definitely does. It was just that there are other great options out there as well. We are also giving people a chance to prove themselves through our online and live qualifiers as well, in terms of new talent.
Maybe its a little out of proportion but the question had to be asked. I find it all-most impossible for new players in the foreign scene to get a shot because organisations always go with players that is well-known. It makes sense for a business aspect but its destroying the talent development.
And this is not just IGN its the entire scene. Dreamhack,NASL,ESL etc..
Don´t get me wrong I love IGN and think you doing an amazing job. I just wish the foreign scene would also focus about showcasing up and coming players.
Here's the thing and I may be wrong, but nericho didn't sign up for 1 IPL 3 qualifier, while stephano did obviously so he gets props for that. Also, a ton of euros didn't sign up for any qualifiers, which I didn't understand. This was their shot to win a qualifier and get a free trip to IPL 3, yet the majority of the euro pros chose to stay on the sidelines. So, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them, when they chose not to compete in the qualifiers.
I'm not talking about Euro´s players im talking about young and promising talents in the foreign scene. NA,EU etc
Lets talk about north America where are you up and coming players? The only one I know is actually DDE. And I am sure there is alot others but its so hard for them to get showcased.
Anyway enough of my rant looking forward to the tournament I am sure it´s going to rock
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
Well my question is how do we foster new players then? Because what should new players do? if it isn't enough to place 3rd in IGN season 2 to get an invite. What should up and coming players do?
Where is EU and US DRG? if we go back 6months ago. No one knew who DRG was but he got a shot and is now a huge star. Our young talents don't get any chance to come out and show them self.
The Korean scene foster new talents all the time Puma,DRG,Ryung,Bomber. no1 had heard about these players 6 months ago.
Where is the foreign scene talents?
I´ll tell you where they are they sitting and winning on-line cups because that's all they can do but apparently that's not enough.
I think you're blowing this a little out of proportion. It isn't that getting 3rd isn't enough to get an invite, it definitely does. It was just that there are other great options out there as well. We are also giving people a chance to prove themselves through our online and live qualifiers as well, in terms of new talent.
Maybe its a little out of proportion but the question had to be asked. I find it all-most impossible for new players in the foreign scene to get a shot because organisations always go with players that is well-known. It makes sense for a business aspect but its destroying the talent development.
And this is not just IGN its the entire scene. Dreamhack,NASL,ESL etc..
Don´t get me wrong I love IGN and think you doing an amazing job. I just wish the foreign scene would also focus about showcasing up and coming players.
Here's the thing and I may be wrong, but nericho didn't sign up for 1 IPL 3 qualifier, while stephano did obviously so he gets props for that. Also, a ton of euros didn't sign up for any qualifiers, which I didn't understand. This was their shot to win a qualifier and get a free trip to IPL 3, yet the majority of the euro pros chose to stay on the sidelines. So, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them, when they chose not to compete in the qualifiers.
I'm not talking about Euro´s players im talking about young and promising talents in the foreign scene. NA,EU etc
Lets talk about north America where are you up and coming players? The only one I know is actually DDE. And I am sure there is alot others but its so hard for them to get showcased.
Well I don't think there are many up/coming players or very few because it's a chicken/egg scenario. Mr. Joe ladder can't get great without being on a team because he can't afford to play sc 2 24/7. A team won't recruit Mr. Joe ladder until he gets great though, which is hard because he can't dedicate his time to sc2 full time without a team's financial backing.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
Well my question is how do we foster new players then? Because what should new players do? if it isn't enough to place 3rd in IGN season 2 to get an invite. What should up and coming players do?
Where is EU and US DRG? if we go back 6months ago. No one knew who DRG was but he got a shot and is now a huge star. Our young talents don't get any chance to come out and show them self.
The Korean scene foster new talents all the time Puma,DRG,Ryung,Bomber. no1 had heard about these players 6 months ago.
Where is the foreign scene talents?
I´ll tell you where they are they sitting and winning on-line cups because that's all they can do but apparently that's not enough.
I think you're blowing this a little out of proportion. It isn't that getting 3rd isn't enough to get an invite, it definitely does. It was just that there are other great options out there as well. We are also giving people a chance to prove themselves through our online and live qualifiers as well, in terms of new talent.
Maybe its a little out of proportion but the question had to be asked. I find it all-most impossible for new players in the foreign scene to get a shot because organisations always go with players that is well-known. It makes sense for a business aspect but its destroying the talent development.
And this is not just IGN its the entire scene. Dreamhack,NASL,ESL etc..
Don´t get me wrong I love IGN and think you doing an amazing job. I just wish the foreign scene would also focus about showcasing up and coming players.
Here's the thing and I may be wrong, but nericho didn't sign up for 1 IPL 3 qualifier, while stephano did obviously so he gets props for that. Also, a ton of euros didn't sign up for any qualifiers, which I didn't understand. This was their shot to win a qualifier and get a free trip to IPL 3, yet the majority of the euro pros chose to stay on the sidelines. So, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them, when they chose not to compete in the qualifiers.
I'm not talking about Euro´s players im talking about young and promising talents in the foreign scene. NA,EU etc
Lets talk about north America where are you up and coming players? The only one I know is actually DDE. And I am sure there is alot others but its so hard for them to get showcased.
Anyway enough of my rant looking forward to the tournament I am sure it´s going to rock
It's not hard to get showcased. Join the qualifiers and impress in them. IGN gave the perfect opportunity to up and comers. Doing well in these is how you get noticed. VPchance got noticed for his epic run in qualifier 4. Posting good results is how you get noticef. They aren't just going to jand out spots to people who haven't shown they are worthy of them.
Did DRG, MMA, or Bombet get preferential treatment before posting results? No. Why would it b ed any different in EU or NA.
Take notes from Stephano if you want to see how you prove yourself.
On September 22 2011 11:29 Blasphemi wrote: [quote]
So you ignore the fact Stephano didn't actually win, he came third. Which was my original point, that winning Blizzcon EU is better than coming third at Assembly, and when you factor in Ret's own Assembly win (yes win, not third place) there's really no reason to rate Stephano above Ret right now. Kas, Happy and Goody have proven that online cups don't mean anything. Stephano needs to get himself a big LAN (or IPL/TSL level online tourny) win before I will consider him alongside top foreigners like Dimaga, Idra, White Ra, Select, Ret, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain. Results do matter and they're much more important than how nice his play looked on his stream or how many Craft Cup's he won vs Elfi.
First, Stephano only came third because he lost ZvZ gambling vs Dimaga. That was more luck then skill. I dont know why playing under horrible conditions in offline events like @ Assembly should have more value then online cups. I also don't know which offline event was won by Idra, White-Ra, Naniwa or Select that makes them top foreigners in your eyes, while Happy, Kas or Goody are not in your list (all by far better then Idra).
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
So you are saying that Thorzain is a nobody because TSL3 is an online tournament ?(having 1 serie not online, doesn't make it a lan event).
What matters the most is not whether it's lan or online. What matters is the level of players who joins the tournament.
Stephano won IPL3 qualifier 3, a tournament with a dozen of recently code-S players, that's way more impressive than a lan with no high level korean.
First, Stephano only came third because he lost ZvZ gambling vs Dimaga. That was more luck then skill. I dont know why playing under horrible conditions in offline events like @ Assembly should have more value then online cups. I also don't know which offline event was won by Idra, White-Ra, Naniwa or Select that makes them top foreigners in your eyes, while Happy, Kas or Goody are not in your list (all by far better then Idra).
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
What matters the most is not whether it's lan or online. What matters is the level of players who joins the tournament.
Stephano won IPL3 qualifier 3, a tournament with a dozen of recently code-S players, that's way more impressive than a lan with no high level korean.
Well I never said a lan with no high level koreans was impressive because any event with no koreans in it isn't impressive. I was mainly talking about how winning a MLG with koreans in it is way harder and more impressive than winning euro online cups.
As for stephano, yeah his ipl win was impressive in a sense, but also not because the koreans were playing with massive lag and the tourney started at 3am for them. If he beats them at a lan with no lag and while they're awake, then I will give him props. Until then, I'll put him in the kas/happy category.
I don't think it's unfair to ask someone to prove it at a lan, otherwise adelscott is better than mvp because he beat him in tsl 3 or goody because he beat nestea. There's a reason nestea refuses to play any foreign online events now, because he's a prideful guy who hates to lose and losing online to players worse than himself because of lag tarnishes his rep.
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
What matters the most is not whether it's lan or online. What matters is the level of players who joins the tournament.
Stephano won IPL3 qualifier 3, a tournament with a dozen of recently code-S players, that's way more impressive than a lan with no high level korean.
Well I never said a lan with no high level koreans was impressive because any event with no koreans in it isn't impressive. I was mainly talking about how winning a MLG with koreans in it is way harder and more impressive than winning euro online cups.
As for stephano, yeah his ipl win was impressive in a sense, but also not because the koreans were playing with massive lag and the tourney started at 3am for them. If he beats them at a lan with no lag and while they're awake, then I will give him props. Until then, I'll put him in the kas/happy category.
I don't think it's unfair to ask someone to prove it at a lan, otherwise adelscott is better than mvp because he beat him in tsl 3 or goody because he beat nestea. There's a reason nestea refuses to play any foreign online events now, because he's a prideful guy who hates to lose and losing online to players worse than himself because of lag tarnishes his rep.
If it isn't a lan, it doesnt matter. If there is no high level koreans, it isn't impressive.
So basically, to prove yourself, you have to win a lan with high level koreans... So I guess there is Huk, and all the other foreigners are on the same lower level.
And about your remark with goody & adelscot, you can't compare winning a BO3 with winning a tournament.
If just winning a BO3 in a lan setting is enough, Stephano has beaten Huk, Jinro, Whitera at the HSC3, and back then he wasn't nearly as strong as he is now.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
What matters the most is not whether it's lan or online. What matters is the level of players who joins the tournament.
Stephano won IPL3 qualifier 3, a tournament with a dozen of recently code-S players, that's way more impressive than a lan with no high level korean.
Well I never said a lan with no high level koreans was impressive because any event with no koreans in it isn't impressive. I was mainly talking about how winning a MLG with koreans in it is way harder and more impressive than winning euro online cups.
As for stephano, yeah his ipl win was impressive in a sense, but also not because the koreans were playing with massive lag and the tourney started at 3am for them. If he beats them at a lan with no lag and while they're awake, then I will give him props. Until then, I'll put him in the kas/happy category.
I don't think it's unfair to ask someone to prove it at a lan, otherwise adelscott is better than mvp because he beat him in tsl 3 or goody because he beat nestea. There's a reason nestea refuses to play any foreign online events now, because he's a prideful guy who hates to lose and losing online to players worse than himself because of lag tarnishes his rep.
If it isn't a lan, it doesnt matter. If there is no high level koreans, it isn't impressive.
So basically, to prove yourself, you have to win a lan with high level koreans... So I guess there is Huk, and all the other foreigners are on the same lower level.
If you place highly at some LANs with high level Koreans you have proven that you can compete with the best and if you place highly at some LANs without high level Koreans but with top foreigners you have proven that you can compete with the best outside of Korea. It´s common sense.
Honestly i dont expect any of the 8 invitees to come even close to winning this tournament, its probably be some korean that qualified online (mma/ryung/alive)
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
What matters the most is not whether it's lan or online. What matters is the level of players who joins the tournament.
Stephano won IPL3 qualifier 3, a tournament with a dozen of recently code-S players, that's way more impressive than a lan with no high level korean.
Well I never said a lan with no high level koreans was impressive because any event with no koreans in it isn't impressive. I was mainly talking about how winning a MLG with koreans in it is way harder and more impressive than winning euro online cups.
As for stephano, yeah his ipl win was impressive in a sense, but also not because the koreans were playing with massive lag and the tourney started at 3am for them. If he beats them at a lan with no lag and while they're awake, then I will give him props. Until then, I'll put him in the kas/happy category.
I don't think it's unfair to ask someone to prove it at a lan, otherwise adelscott is better than mvp because he beat him in tsl 3 or goody because he beat nestea. There's a reason nestea refuses to play any foreign online events now, because he's a prideful guy who hates to lose and losing online to players worse than himself because of lag tarnishes his rep.
If it isn't a lan, it doesnt matter. If there is no high level koreans, it isn't impressive.
So basically, to prove yourself, you have to win a lan with high level koreans... So I guess there is Huk, and all the other foreigners are on the same lower level.
If you place highly at some LANs with high level Koreans you have proven that you can compete with the best and if you place highly at some LANs without high level Koreans but with top foreigners you have proven that you can compete with the best outside of Korea. It´s common sense.
Look at MLG Raleigh, exclude the korean players and you have only 3 or 4 good players in this event. It means nothing placing behind the top 6 koreans there. In my eyes its more worth to win the Grubby invitational online event today with the best 64 EU players then placing 7 or 8 at any MLG event.
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
What matters the most is not whether it's lan or online. What matters is the level of players who joins the tournament.
Stephano won IPL3 qualifier 3, a tournament with a dozen of recently code-S players, that's way more impressive than a lan with no high level korean.
Well I never said a lan with no high level koreans was impressive because any event with no koreans in it isn't impressive. I was mainly talking about how winning a MLG with koreans in it is way harder and more impressive than winning euro online cups.
As for stephano, yeah his ipl win was impressive in a sense, but also not because the koreans were playing with massive lag and the tourney started at 3am for them. If he beats them at a lan with no lag and while they're awake, then I will give him props. Until then, I'll put him in the kas/happy category.
I don't think it's unfair to ask someone to prove it at a lan, otherwise adelscott is better than mvp because he beat him in tsl 3 or goody because he beat nestea. There's a reason nestea refuses to play any foreign online events now, because he's a prideful guy who hates to lose and losing online to players worse than himself because of lag tarnishes his rep.
Nestea didn't lose to GoOdy because of lag, thats totaly stupid. He wasn't prepared for GoOdys style. Look at the vods. No micro battles, GoOdy simply outplayed him.
In my eyes: Idra: MLG DC and Ro8 GSL. White Ra: HSC 2 and 2nd in DH inv and IEM. Naniwa: MLG Dallas and 2nd in HSC 2 and 3 and Blizz EU inv. Select: Blizz NA inv and 2nd MLG DC.
They´re all better than Happy, Kas and Goody who don´t really have comparable results.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz Na means nothing. Every EU online cup is harder to win then these. Its also about how often you play in offline events. Happy or Kas only played @ very few big offline events, while Naniwa shows up nearly everywhere and has also not a big list of wins. Its hard to make a list of the best EU players (not counting Naniwa or Thorzain EU). There are around 30 players nearly at the same level and I wouldn't put White-Ra or Dimaga @ the top of them.
They mean more than smaller online cups because a LAN tournament is the premier way to show skill. And if you don´t prove yourself on LAN tournaments you shouldn´t be considered to better than someone who has. So, unless you win an online tournament that has like a 50 000$ prize pool and some of the best players from all over the world, like IPL 2(White Ra won btw) it won´t matter nearly as much as if you´d win a big offline event, like Assembly(that Dimaga won).
@ KinQuh Goody managed to beat Nestea online when Nestea played from Korea?Ever heard of lag, delay or maybe not caring because you´re busy winning GSLs?
Maybe you guys watched SotG and you´re just trolling, I´m not sure.
MLG DC, MLG Dallas and Blizz NA are a joke. Most of the players in the later rounds of IPL2 you will find in every EU online cup too. The quality in EU online cups is very high and I don't know if you play under horrobile conditions like at Assembly the winner is always the best player.
@GoOdy vs Nestea We all love GoOdy. You know why? Because loosing to GoOdy forces always some very strange excuse by his opponent. GoOdy has one of the biggest fanbase in EU because its so funny to see him winning against people thinking that they are by far the superior players.
You don´t understand. Even if every single player in grandmaster on the KR, NA and EU servers would compete in the online cups they still wouldn´t matter as much as offline events do because the prize pool is relatively small, lag is always a factor and people do not take it as seriously.
Goody is awesome but if he would play Nestea at an MLG or GSL he would probably lose.
I agree that EU > NA but you must understand that LAN events > online cups.
On the other hand, in offline cups you will always have a limited number of good players. Most of the time the reason to get invited is more the team u are on then the skilllevel. Look at MLG. To be the best online needs much more skill then win an offline event.
LAN events are where you gain legitimacy as a player, if you can´t see that then you don´t understand how competitive gaming works. And MLG only invite Koreans to their events and if you think their skill level isn´t high enough you´re probably even dumber than you seem to be.
Agreed. No one cares who wins euro kraft cup #37 no matter how much the euros want to hype those online cups. You either do something at a lan event or you're just an online cup/ladder warrior that no one cares about. It's just a totally different environment and feeling playing in the comforts of your own home, compared to playing live in front of a crowd.
What matters the most is not whether it's lan or online. What matters is the level of players who joins the tournament.
Stephano won IPL3 qualifier 3, a tournament with a dozen of recently code-S players, that's way more impressive than a lan with no high level korean.
Well I never said a lan with no high level koreans was impressive because any event with no koreans in it isn't impressive. I was mainly talking about how winning a MLG with koreans in it is way harder and more impressive than winning euro online cups.
As for stephano, yeah his ipl win was impressive in a sense, but also not because the koreans were playing with massive lag and the tourney started at 3am for them. If he beats them at a lan with no lag and while they're awake, then I will give him props. Until then, I'll put him in the kas/happy category.
I don't think it's unfair to ask someone to prove it at a lan, otherwise adelscott is better than mvp because he beat him in tsl 3 or goody because he beat nestea. There's a reason nestea refuses to play any foreign online events now, because he's a prideful guy who hates to lose and losing online to players worse than himself because of lag tarnishes his rep.
You dont think the Europeans are playing with massive lag also?
EPT
