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On September 06 2011 13:55 theBizness wrote:
This reminds me of NFL players who hold out of camp to try and get better contracts. If you think you're worth it, hold out for a better contract BEFORE signing, or find some incentive laden contract so you can scale your pay with your performance. I can't think of any other profession off the top of my head where you can not show up for work, demand a raise and expect it to work.
Kind of funny but you have an example in your own post. NFL players do hold out for deals they feel they have outperformed.
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My point is other than spoiled athletes, which I don't consider pro gamers to be (athletes), nobody gets to behave this way. This is what normal people do:
1. Read contract carefully
2. Negotiate if you want anything changed
3. Sign
4. Follow terms
5. Upon completion, find a new contract with current employer or new employer
6. Repeat
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On September 06 2011 14:43 theBizness wrote:
My point is other than spoiled athletes, which I don't consider pro gamers to be (athletes), nobody gets to behave this way. This is what normal people do:
1. Read contract carefully
2. Negotiate if you want anything changed
3. Sign
4. Follow terms
5. Upon completion, find a new contract with current employer or new employer
6. Repeat
If by normal people you mean those in established industries with reasonably replaceable skills, then yes.
But if you've got a unique skillset which is suddenly in demand, even "normal people" can get pretty ruthless.
Doesn't excuse the behaviour, but it's not unique to spoiled athletes.
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On September 06 2011 14:43 theBizness wrote:
My point is other than spoiled athletes, which I don't consider pro gamers to be (athletes), nobody gets to behave this way. This is what normal people do:
1. Read contract carefully
2. Negotiate if you want anything changed
3. Sign
4. Follow terms
5. Upon completion, find a new contract with current employer or new employer
6. Repeat
You do realize that pro athletes still get the shaft most of the times, as teams can cut or release a player at any time for any reason and the majority of the time the player is screwed with regards to his salary. I mean you say that the athletes should be accountable and honor the full terms of the contract, doesn't that apply to the teams also. Shouldn't they honor the the full terms as well.
Edit: And this way off topic, so I digress on this train of discussion
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On September 06 2011 14:48 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 14:43 theBizness wrote:
My point is other than spoiled athletes, which I don't consider pro gamers to be (athletes), nobody gets to behave this way. This is what normal people do:
1. Read contract carefully
2. Negotiate if you want anything changed
3. Sign
4. Follow terms
5. Upon completion, find a new contract with current employer or new employer
6. Repeat You do realize that pro athletes still get the shaft most of the times, as teams can cut or release a player at any time for any reason and the majority of the time the player is screwed with regards to his salary. I mean you say that the athletes should be accountable and honor the full terms of the contract, doesn't that apply to the teams also. Shouldn't they honor the the full terms as well. Edit: And this way off topic, so I digress on this train of discussion
Depending on the sport, when players get cut, the team still pays the complete guaranteed salary. Most sports salaries are structured with a certain amount of guaranteed money and then the rest is incentive based. Generally there are things written into the contract that allow a team to cut a player (not being in shape, not showing up for certain events etc.) without paying them the remainder of what's owed.
Considering this is a gaming contract, I doubt that there's a lot of complicated legalese where someone could breach a contract without realizing it.
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Liquid Major they need a latin player. Also terran would be nice.
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He is a great macro player, but while still a bit immature, I think his past decisions involving teams is coming to bite him in the ass and sixjax is therefore getting away with a few things.
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On September 06 2011 15:00 Coach wrote:
Liquid Major they need a latin player. Also terran would be nice.
Yeah Liquid is known for picking up character guys and loyal, mannered players so Major should fit right in.
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On September 06 2011 15:00 Coach wrote:
Liquid Major they need a latin player. Also terran would be nice.
I think Major would need to deal with his current professionalism issues before this would even be considered. Based on the current Liquid team, there is no way that he would fit in with their image.
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On September 06 2011 14:43 theBizness wrote:
My point is other than spoiled athletes, which I don't consider pro gamers to be (athletes), nobody gets to behave this way. This is what normal people do:
1. Read contract carefully
2. Negotiate if you want anything changed
3. Sign
4. Follow terms
5. Upon completion, find a new contract with current employer or new employer
6. Repeat
The "spoiled" athletes act like that because if they underperform the contract they get cut and get nothing so if they overperform it they will hold out since loyalty is a 2 way street.
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On September 06 2011 15:12 joen05 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 15:00 Coach wrote:
Liquid Major they need a latin player. Also terran would be nice. I think Major would need to deal with his current professionalism issues before this would even be considered. Based on the current Liquid team, there is no way that he would fit in with their image.
I'm pretty sure this guy didn't mean what he wrote...
anyways, I think he should join a Korean team 
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On September 06 2011 15:31 sashamunguia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 15:12 joen05 wrote:On September 06 2011 15:00 Coach wrote:
Liquid Major they need a latin player. Also terran would be nice. I think Major would need to deal with his current professionalism issues before this would even be considered. Based on the current Liquid team, there is no way that he would fit in with their image. I'm pretty sure this guy didn't mean what he wrote... anyways, I think he should join a Korean team
I think that might damage foreigner reputation in Korea. Foreigners already seem less professional in general (NASL no shows are one example.)
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On September 06 2011 14:39 Takezou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 13:55 theBizness wrote:
This reminds me of NFL players who hold out of camp to try and get better contracts. If you think you're worth it, hold out for a better contract BEFORE signing, or find some incentive laden contract so you can scale your pay with your performance. I can't think of any other profession off the top of my head where you can not show up for work, demand a raise and expect it to work. Kind of funny but you have an example in your own post. NFL players do hold out for deals they feel they have outperformed.
And then they get fined.
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On September 06 2011 15:00 Coach wrote:
Liquid Major they need a latin player. Also terran would be nice.
Considering that Liquid does not have a history of recruiting lying disloyal and clan hopping players I doubt that it is going to happen. In fact I would find it more likely that Liquid would be so desperate they would recruit me before they would go over to Major; even though I do not play Terran. :p
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On September 06 2011 14:48 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 14:43 theBizness wrote:
My point is other than spoiled athletes, which I don't consider pro gamers to be (athletes), nobody gets to behave this way. This is what normal people do:
1. Read contract carefully
2. Negotiate if you want anything changed
3. Sign
4. Follow terms
5. Upon completion, find a new contract with current employer or new employer
6. Repeat You do realize that pro athletes still get the shaft most of the times, as teams can cut or release a player at any time for any reason and the majority of the time the player is screwed with regards to his salary. I mean you say that the athletes should be accountable and honor the full terms of the contract, doesn't that apply to the teams also. Shouldn't they honor the the full terms as well. Edit: And this way off topic, so I digress on this train of discussion
They get the shaft most of the time because they dont have agents negotiating contracts for them and instead rely on their friends/relatives.
But more importantly, t if we are talking about major league professionals: nhl/nba/etc then league minimum as negotiated in various CBAs are pretty damn good wages.
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On September 06 2011 06:36 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 06:23 Truedot wrote:On September 06 2011 06:12 eourcs wrote:On September 06 2011 06:00 IPA wrote:On September 06 2011 05:50 5ukkub wrote:On September 06 2011 05:45 anathematize wrote:On September 06 2011 05:42 5ukkub wrote:On September 06 2011 05:35 anathematize wrote:On September 06 2011 05:24 infinity2k9 wrote:On September 06 2011 04:37 anathematize wrote:
[quote]
Idra is an extremely like-able and marketable personality in the scene.
Major is almost universally loathed/hated.
You do the math champ. He's not like-able at all you're fucking delusional Keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile... Idra is streaming with commentary to 13k+, representing/hyping his sponsors like a boss and not being kicked off his team. And Terran is still an immature twat-bag that the vast majority of the community loathes. The only thing that i expect to get watching IdrA's stream is laugh when he rages and BM's and i would expect it attracts viewers. His play isn't interesting at all, it's just about his BM and rage. People just like drama and IdrA delivers it quite often. Cool. As long as you watch and care... thats all that matters to Idra, EG and EG's sponsors. Unfortunately for Terran... nobody watches and nobody really cares. Yeah... that's like being a clown: As long as people laugh at you, you get paid. I watch IdrA because he's a solid Zerg. I watch Major because he's a solid Terran. Major doesn't really bm like IdrA. They do different things. In the wbc thing, as far as i know, all he said was "good job idiot" after wbc offensive gg'ed him. Compare that to idrA who flips people off on mainstage. This is in no way defending Major, but I think it's stupid to compare them both. a totally aggressive (and immature) Throat cutting gesture from MC and everyone harps on the most universal well used hand sign thats not really too serious from Idra in response to that "kill you", sign? Seriously. I for one find Idra tame. As for major, he reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._ThompsonNot bowing to the status quo, living life his way, etc. Showmanship is really lost on you.... sigh... MC's throat slash is clearly a joke, and a pretty ridiculous and funny one at that. Flipping off someone is not making a show, it's just being a jackass. It's all about the attitude, and the context. You can tell from afar that what MC does, he does to please and motivate his fans, and he does an excellent job. Idra's gestures and attitudes are not related to the fans at all, he just wants to insult and look better than his opponents, which is sad. His constant childish attitudes really can't be compared to MC's, they're on a different mindset. While Maj0r just seems to be more of the socially inept type. Personally, I find maj0r a lot more tolerable, though his clan-hopping sucks. Idra leaves games prematurely and then proceeds to forfeit a whole series, damaging the tournament, and making it terrible for the show, that's just........................... well, it's hard to find the correct words.....
Thats because u like MC and dont like idra. Its showmanship for MC and not for Idra, do you see your fallacy now?
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On September 06 2011 06:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
In the past few pages Major has been called a fag, a cunt, a "twat-bag", a scum bag, and there have racist comments made about him being Mexican.... and you people claim that Major is classless.
You know its possible to discuss this without spewing hate at a person, right?
`
likely because they feel "he deserves it", because as we all know, if someone behaves badly, we should behave exactly like them while also condemning their behavior. the human condition of hypocrisy. Cant stop it because people perceptually color anything they or their friends or family do as good, when its real douchey, and anything that might be slightly douchey or bad by others as a sign of being the ultimate evil/worthless person.
people love to fight and pick fights, all the more so if they feel justified in doing it.
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On September 07 2011 00:41 Truedot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 06:36 mordk wrote:On September 06 2011 06:23 Truedot wrote:On September 06 2011 06:12 eourcs wrote:On September 06 2011 06:00 IPA wrote:On September 06 2011 05:50 5ukkub wrote:On September 06 2011 05:45 anathematize wrote:On September 06 2011 05:42 5ukkub wrote:On September 06 2011 05:35 anathematize wrote:On September 06 2011 05:24 infinity2k9 wrote:
[quote]
He's not like-able at all you're fucking delusional Keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile... Idra is streaming with commentary to 13k+, representing/hyping his sponsors like a boss and not being kicked off his team. And Terran is still an immature twat-bag that the vast majority of the community loathes. The only thing that i expect to get watching IdrA's stream is laugh when he rages and BM's and i would expect it attracts viewers. His play isn't interesting at all, it's just about his BM and rage. People just like drama and IdrA delivers it quite often. Cool. As long as you watch and care... thats all that matters to Idra, EG and EG's sponsors. Unfortunately for Terran... nobody watches and nobody really cares. Yeah... that's like being a clown: As long as people laugh at you, you get paid. I watch IdrA because he's a solid Zerg. I watch Major because he's a solid Terran. Major doesn't really bm like IdrA. They do different things. In the wbc thing, as far as i know, all he said was "good job idiot" after wbc offensive gg'ed him. Compare that to idrA who flips people off on mainstage. This is in no way defending Major, but I think it's stupid to compare them both. a totally aggressive (and immature) Throat cutting gesture from MC and everyone harps on the most universal well used hand sign thats not really too serious from Idra in response to that "kill you", sign? Seriously. I for one find Idra tame. As for major, he reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._ThompsonNot bowing to the status quo, living life his way, etc. Showmanship is really lost on you.... sigh... MC's throat slash is clearly a joke, and a pretty ridiculous and funny one at that. Flipping off someone is not making a show, it's just being a jackass. It's all about the attitude, and the context. You can tell from afar that what MC does, he does to please and motivate his fans, and he does an excellent job. Idra's gestures and attitudes are not related to the fans at all, he just wants to insult and look better than his opponents, which is sad. His constant childish attitudes really can't be compared to MC's, they're on a different mindset. While Maj0r just seems to be more of the socially inept type. Personally, I find maj0r a lot more tolerable, though his clan-hopping sucks. Idra leaves games prematurely and then proceeds to forfeit a whole series, damaging the tournament, and making it terrible for the show, that's just........................... well, it's hard to find the correct words..... Thats because u like MC and dont like idra. Its showmanship for MC and not for Idra, do you see your fallacy now?
Ahm... I don't get all the fuss but a throath slash is really normal showmanship.. What Idra did isn't. I don't care and think people are to serious about stuff like that anway but.. get real.
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On September 07 2011 00:41 Truedot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 06:36 mordk wrote:On September 06 2011 06:23 Truedot wrote:On September 06 2011 06:12 eourcs wrote:On September 06 2011 06:00 IPA wrote:On September 06 2011 05:50 5ukkub wrote:On September 06 2011 05:45 anathematize wrote:On September 06 2011 05:42 5ukkub wrote:On September 06 2011 05:35 anathematize wrote:On September 06 2011 05:24 infinity2k9 wrote:
[quote]
He's not like-able at all you're fucking delusional Keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile... Idra is streaming with commentary to 13k+, representing/hyping his sponsors like a boss and not being kicked off his team. And Terran is still an immature twat-bag that the vast majority of the community loathes. The only thing that i expect to get watching IdrA's stream is laugh when he rages and BM's and i would expect it attracts viewers. His play isn't interesting at all, it's just about his BM and rage. People just like drama and IdrA delivers it quite often. Cool. As long as you watch and care... thats all that matters to Idra, EG and EG's sponsors. Unfortunately for Terran... nobody watches and nobody really cares. Yeah... that's like being a clown: As long as people laugh at you, you get paid. I watch IdrA because he's a solid Zerg. I watch Major because he's a solid Terran. Major doesn't really bm like IdrA. They do different things. In the wbc thing, as far as i know, all he said was "good job idiot" after wbc offensive gg'ed him. Compare that to idrA who flips people off on mainstage. This is in no way defending Major, but I think it's stupid to compare them both. a totally aggressive (and immature) Throat cutting gesture from MC and everyone harps on the most universal well used hand sign thats not really too serious from Idra in response to that "kill you", sign? Seriously. I for one find Idra tame. As for major, he reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._ThompsonNot bowing to the status quo, living life his way, etc. Showmanship is really lost on you.... sigh... MC's throat slash is clearly a joke, and a pretty ridiculous and funny one at that. Flipping off someone is not making a show, it's just being a jackass. It's all about the attitude, and the context. You can tell from afar that what MC does, he does to please and motivate his fans, and he does an excellent job. Idra's gestures and attitudes are not related to the fans at all, he just wants to insult and look better than his opponents, which is sad. His constant childish attitudes really can't be compared to MC's, they're on a different mindset. While Maj0r just seems to be more of the socially inept type. Personally, I find maj0r a lot more tolerable, though his clan-hopping sucks. Idra leaves games prematurely and then proceeds to forfeit a whole series, damaging the tournament, and making it terrible for the show, that's just........................... well, it's hard to find the correct words..... Thats because u like MC and dont like idra. Its showmanship for MC and not for Idra, do you see your fallacy now?
MC is always making wrestling moves for shits and giggles, including the throat thing. If you see MC do that and think it's in the same context than Idra flipping off people, then you're wrong.
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EPT
