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On September 02 2011 11:34 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:30 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:24 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:22 Kaitlin wrote:On September 02 2011 11:21 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 02 2011 11:11 Kaitlin wrote:
If players are willing to "make deals", and the winner of the match doesn't matter, as long as they "play their best", what's to stand in the way of earning some side cash by throwing (as a heavily favored player) a match so some gambler and win a bunch of bets and give the player a cut ? If the discrepancy of the prize pool is taken out of the equation, and it's only the "fame" or whatever from winning vs. losing, then why not throw the games for even more cash ? Because taking money to intentionally lose is match fixing, and you will get your ass banned permanently for doing it. >.> It's an entirely different animal than splitting the winnings and playing your best game. Players have been banned from MLG for "deal making". Then I'm following the same line of logic. I'm no longer a fan of pro's who have made deals. So who has done this? That we know? ToD Grubby TT1? ToD, Grubby, TT1, Fenix (reneging on the deal doesn't change the fact that he initially made it), and according to Fayth, the teams Reign, EG, mouz, Dignitas, and SlayerS. Have fun, dude. That is fucking awful. SC2 pro's should feel awful about themselves right now. I bet SlayerS is doing bad in GSTL because they already have there hands in the other teams pockets. I know Frank and Tranqfx of Reign personally, Im gonna go ask them about this. EG Dignitas and mouz are on my shitlist now.
Um, note that this takes place between teammates, not between teams.
And while you're at it, you should probably stop watching professional SC2 altogether.
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On September 02 2011 11:33 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:29 Pills wrote:
Posted this in the Fenix to IM thread, but decided it was probably more appropriate here:
What Fenix did was a dick move, but I'm kinda happy it worked out like that. If TT1 really did throw away a couple of those games, then he deserved it. Agreements like these completely ruin the spirit of competition, and is a huge middle-finger to the fans that waited to see two deserving players duke it out for all the marbles.
Hopefully in the future, players will learn not to make these underhanded agreements. TT1 got his comeuppance, and it'll be funny to see if Fenix gets a taste of karma in the future. there's no such thing as "he deserved it" wtf is wrong with you people if TT1 really did throw the game where he went carriers then it's stupid and annoying for the viewers and his own reputation what Fenix did is an entirely different matter, he backed out of a deal he agreed to, this is stealing...
I Agree with u Fayth. But i dont think TT1 threw the game. you notice even in the GSL when players play agienst ppl they practice with alot they try crazy stuff b/c there team mates knows there play style to well
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This thread is devolving into Pros versus Joes. And Joes seem to have this super idealistic sense of honor and pride and spectator entertainment dignity that needs to be maintained. Everyone wants to win. You know that. They wouldn't be playing otherwise. You think Boxer or Kiwikaki need SC2? Please.
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On September 02 2011 11:36 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:34 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:24 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:22 Kaitlin wrote:On September 02 2011 11:21 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 02 2011 11:11 Kaitlin wrote:
If players are willing to "make deals", and the winner of the match doesn't matter, as long as they "play their best", what's to stand in the way of earning some side cash by throwing (as a heavily favored player) a match so some gambler and win a bunch of bets and give the player a cut ? If the discrepancy of the prize pool is taken out of the equation, and it's only the "fame" or whatever from winning vs. losing, then why not throw the games for even more cash ? Because taking money to intentionally lose is match fixing, and you will get your ass banned permanently for doing it. >.> It's an entirely different animal than splitting the winnings and playing your best game. Players have been banned from MLG for "deal making". Then I'm following the same line of logic. I'm no longer a fan of pro's who have made deals. So who has done this? That we know? ToD Grubby TT1? ToD, Grubby, TT1, Fenix (reneging on the deal doesn't change the fact that he initially made it), and according to Fayth, the teams Reign, EG, mouz, Dignitas, and SlayerS. Have fun, dude. That is fucking awful. SC2 pro's should feel awful about themselves right now. I bet SlayerS is doing bad in GSTL because they already have there hands in the other teams pockets. I know Frank and Tranqfx of Reign personally, Im gonna go ask them about this. EG Dignitas and mouz are on my shitlist now. Um, note that this takes place between teammates, not between teams. And while you're at it, you should probably stop watching professional SC2 altogether.
I probably will. Whats the point? You think splitting is the worst of it?
I don't wanna watch a people play like shit intentionally. I want this out of my game completely.
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On September 02 2011 11:36 Rylaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:23 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 10:45 puzzl wrote:
TT1: clearly you never even had any intention of winning, since you undeniably threw the game. As far as we know, you intentionally tried to broker a deal that would net you greater overall profit, since you felt you had little chance of beating your (clearly superior) teammate. With this knowledge, you decided to deceitfully pretend like it was fair if you "split the winnings" so you could guarantee your $2500 rather than getting stuck with the $500 you deserved.
It should also be noted that not only was there no guarantee that Fenix would accept the money had you won—many people culturally agree to these situations as a formality with no intention to act on either end—but that we'll never know if you would have even paid out either, especially considering you planned ahead of time to lose on purpose. I can't believe some people are dumb enough to back fenix in this situation, it's FLAT OUT WRONG you agreed to a fucking deal, you respect your end of the deal, the deal was: WE SPLIT 50/50 IN THE FINALS seriously, how is fenix reputation not destroyed right now is beyond me, lots of shady people on TL Are u retarded? How the fuck does the world work were you live were a person intent of doing something wrong, then backs out and you think it's bad. If I make a deal with someone to throw a game or fucking kill someone, and I realize no I don't wanna do this. Is that wrong in your book? I need to "keep my word". This ain't the fucking Godfather. Get real son.
nobody agreed to throw games or kill anybody, they agreed to split the prize among teammates, which is very common and not wrong
so yes I live in a world where people can make deals with me and take my word for it and they won't need to fear me running away with their money
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If 2 people decide to split the cash that is simply their own choice, it's not like you can tell someone what to do with their prize money.
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On September 02 2011 11:34 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:31 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:21 Kaitlin wrote:On September 02 2011 11:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:11 Kaitlin wrote:
If players are willing to "make deals", and the winner of the match doesn't matter, as long as they "play their best", what's to stand in the way of earning some side cash by throwing (as a heavily favored player) a match so some gambler and win a bunch of bets and give the player a cut ? If the discrepancy of the prize pool is taken out of the equation, and it's only the "fame" or whatever from winning vs. losing, then why not throw the games for even more cash ? Can't see too many big gamblers interested in Starcraft, just for the reasons you stated alone. Too prone to rigging. Don't we have professional gamblers (although I guess poker isn't gambling ? ) playing SC2 professionally, and even posting in this very thread ? Hmm, insider gamblers ... This whole "deal making" idea is looking full of integrity. What's your point? People want to split their money so what? It's their money to do whatever they want with. It's not their money. There are conditions that players agree to when entering a tournament. Tread carefully if you choose to violate the conditions the tournament imposes.
It's not their money? Don't tournaments like MLG take a fee for entering? If it's not their money than whose is it?
Even if there is no money on the line don't you think you would still damn sure try to win? Look at Huk, making a lot of money based on good performance.
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On September 02 2011 11:38 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:36 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:34 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:24 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:22 Kaitlin wrote:On September 02 2011 11:21 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 02 2011 11:11 Kaitlin wrote:
If players are willing to "make deals", and the winner of the match doesn't matter, as long as they "play their best", what's to stand in the way of earning some side cash by throwing (as a heavily favored player) a match so some gambler and win a bunch of bets and give the player a cut ? If the discrepancy of the prize pool is taken out of the equation, and it's only the "fame" or whatever from winning vs. losing, then why not throw the games for even more cash ? Because taking money to intentionally lose is match fixing, and you will get your ass banned permanently for doing it. >.> It's an entirely different animal than splitting the winnings and playing your best game. Players have been banned from MLG for "deal making". Then I'm following the same line of logic. I'm no longer a fan of pro's who have made deals. So who has done this? That we know? ToD Grubby TT1? ToD, Grubby, TT1, Fenix (reneging on the deal doesn't change the fact that he initially made it), and according to Fayth, the teams Reign, EG, mouz, Dignitas, and SlayerS. Have fun, dude. That is fucking awful. SC2 pro's should feel awful about themselves right now. I bet SlayerS is doing bad in GSTL because they already have there hands in the other teams pockets. I know Frank and Tranqfx of Reign personally, Im gonna go ask them about this. EG Dignitas and mouz are on my shitlist now. Um, note that this takes place between teammates, not between teams. And while you're at it, you should probably stop watching professional SC2 altogether. I probably will. Whats the point? You think splitting is the worst of it? I don't wanna watch a people play like shit intentionally. I want this out of my game completely.
The fact that you think splitting automatically leads to shitty play is very telling.
Kiwi and Minigun probably split too, by the way. I'd assume most of the poker players do.
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On September 02 2011 11:34 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:33 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:29 Pills wrote:
Posted this in the Fenix to IM thread, but decided it was probably more appropriate here:
What Fenix did was a dick move, but I'm kinda happy it worked out like that. If TT1 really did throw away a couple of those games, then he deserved it. Agreements like these completely ruin the spirit of competition, and is a huge middle-finger to the fans that waited to see two deserving players duke it out for all the marbles.
Hopefully in the future, players will learn not to make these underhanded agreements. TT1 got his comeuppance, and it'll be funny to see if Fenix gets a taste of karma in the future. there's no such thing as "he deserved it" wtf is wrong with you people if TT1 really did throw the game where he went carriers then it's stupid and annoying for the viewers and his own reputation what Fenix did is an entirely different matter, he backed out of a deal he agreed to, this is stealing... its not stealing, its creative warfare tt1 should have won if he wanted the money
yeah ok I get it you'll do whatever it takes to make more money even if it means deceiving people etc.
we get it you should be a rolemodel for children
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On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.-
Now that I think about it, don't you pro players try to get in each other's heads all the time ? What if Fenix was simply metagaming his opponent ?
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fayth stop arguing with these ppl^^ the fact that they side with a thief is proof of their character, u dont need to explain anything to them
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On September 02 2011 11:40 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- Now that I think about it, don't you pro players try to get in each other's heads all the time ? What if Fenix was simply metagaming his opponent ?
Then he's an even bigger douchebag for doing it that way? You promise a teammate or friend something and you go back on your word so you can beat him? Everyone talking about honor in this thread. lol
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On September 02 2011 11:40 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- Now that I think about it, don't you pro players try to get in each other's heads all the time ? What if Fenix was simply metagaming his opponent ?
wtf are you talking about
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On September 02 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:36 Rylaji wrote:On September 02 2011 11:23 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 10:45 puzzl wrote:
TT1: clearly you never even had any intention of winning, since you undeniably threw the game. As far as we know, you intentionally tried to broker a deal that would net you greater overall profit, since you felt you had little chance of beating your (clearly superior) teammate. With this knowledge, you decided to deceitfully pretend like it was fair if you "split the winnings" so you could guarantee your $2500 rather than getting stuck with the $500 you deserved.
It should also be noted that not only was there no guarantee that Fenix would accept the money had you won—many people culturally agree to these situations as a formality with no intention to act on either end—but that we'll never know if you would have even paid out either, especially considering you planned ahead of time to lose on purpose. I can't believe some people are dumb enough to back fenix in this situation, it's FLAT OUT WRONG you agreed to a fucking deal, you respect your end of the deal, the deal was: WE SPLIT 50/50 IN THE FINALS seriously, how is fenix reputation not destroyed right now is beyond me, lots of shady people on TL Are u retarded? How the fuck does the world work were you live were a person intent of doing something wrong, then backs out and you think it's bad. If I make a deal with someone to throw a game or fucking kill someone, and I realize no I don't wanna do this. Is that wrong in your book? I need to "keep my word". This ain't the fucking Godfather. Get real son. nobody agreed to throw games or kill anybody, they agreed to split the prize among teammates, which is very common and not wrongso yes I live in a world where people can make deals with me and take my word for it and they won't need to fear me running away with their money
Fayth, can you confirm for me that MLG is okay with these pre-arrangements to split prize money ? If not, then you can't say "very common and not wrong", you can only say "very common".
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On September 02 2011 11:42 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:36 Rylaji wrote:On September 02 2011 11:23 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 10:45 puzzl wrote:
TT1: clearly you never even had any intention of winning, since you undeniably threw the game. As far as we know, you intentionally tried to broker a deal that would net you greater overall profit, since you felt you had little chance of beating your (clearly superior) teammate. With this knowledge, you decided to deceitfully pretend like it was fair if you "split the winnings" so you could guarantee your $2500 rather than getting stuck with the $500 you deserved.
It should also be noted that not only was there no guarantee that Fenix would accept the money had you won—many people culturally agree to these situations as a formality with no intention to act on either end—but that we'll never know if you would have even paid out either, especially considering you planned ahead of time to lose on purpose. I can't believe some people are dumb enough to back fenix in this situation, it's FLAT OUT WRONG you agreed to a fucking deal, you respect your end of the deal, the deal was: WE SPLIT 50/50 IN THE FINALS seriously, how is fenix reputation not destroyed right now is beyond me, lots of shady people on TL Are u retarded? How the fuck does the world work were you live were a person intent of doing something wrong, then backs out and you think it's bad. If I make a deal with someone to throw a game or fucking kill someone, and I realize no I don't wanna do this. Is that wrong in your book? I need to "keep my word". This ain't the fucking Godfather. Get real son. nobody agreed to throw games or kill anybody, they agreed to split the prize among teammates, which is very common and not wrongso yes I live in a world where people can make deals with me and take my word for it and they won't need to fear me running away with their money Fayth, can you confirm for me that MLG is okay with these pre-arrangements to split prize money ? If not, then you can't say "very common and not wrong", you can only say "very common".
I'm not gonna go read the rules, feel free to go read them but nobody ever told anyone of us it was forbidden
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why should it be? if two players are in the finals they have already won the money for 1 and 2 spot, what they do with the money dosent concern anyone else
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On September 02 2011 11:39 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:38 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:36 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:34 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:24 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:22 Kaitlin wrote:On September 02 2011 11:21 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 02 2011 11:11 Kaitlin wrote:
If players are willing to "make deals", and the winner of the match doesn't matter, as long as they "play their best", what's to stand in the way of earning some side cash by throwing (as a heavily favored player) a match so some gambler and win a bunch of bets and give the player a cut ? If the discrepancy of the prize pool is taken out of the equation, and it's only the "fame" or whatever from winning vs. losing, then why not throw the games for even more cash ? Because taking money to intentionally lose is match fixing, and you will get your ass banned permanently for doing it. >.> It's an entirely different animal than splitting the winnings and playing your best game. Players have been banned from MLG for "deal making". Then I'm following the same line of logic. I'm no longer a fan of pro's who have made deals. So who has done this? That we know? ToD Grubby TT1? ToD, Grubby, TT1, Fenix (reneging on the deal doesn't change the fact that he initially made it), and according to Fayth, the teams Reign, EG, mouz, Dignitas, and SlayerS. Have fun, dude. That is fucking awful. SC2 pro's should feel awful about themselves right now. I bet SlayerS is doing bad in GSTL because they already have there hands in the other teams pockets. I know Frank and Tranqfx of Reign personally, Im gonna go ask them about this. EG Dignitas and mouz are on my shitlist now. Um, note that this takes place between teammates, not between teams. And while you're at it, you should probably stop watching professional SC2 altogether. I probably will. Whats the point? You think splitting is the worst of it? I don't wanna watch a people play like shit intentionally. I want this out of my game completely. The fact that you think splitting automatically leads to shitty play is very telling. Kiwi and Minigun probably split too, by the way. I'd assume most of the poker players do.
Wow fuck it then. No point in watching the finals of anything. Even if the finals are outside the team its the same shit.
I hope we see a trend from 1st place having a higher prize money then. 1st and 2nd should ahve the same prize money. But the 1st place winner gets benefits only they can use. Trophies, additional press, gift certificates or whatever. Just not hard cash.
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On September 02 2011 11:40 TT1 wrote:
fayth stop arguing with these ppl^^ the fact that they side with a thief is proof of their character, u dont need to explain anything to them
not everyone's siding with the thief (since what he did was obviously wrong), but why bring it up now, when the good news for fenix comes up? just seems like malicious intent...
personally i consider what fenix did & the deal they made both wrong...
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On September 02 2011 11:42 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:40 Kaitlin wrote:On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- Now that I think about it, don't you pro players try to get in each other's heads all the time ? What if Fenix was simply metagaming his opponent ? wtf are you talking about
You know, psyching him out, so to speak. Into not playing his best game ?
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Even if this becomes illegal, who will stop them from giving the other player 50% once the money's been transferred? Is there going to be someone hired to watch the players' accounts?
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EPT
