There is an upcoming SC2 invitational tournament in China. Though I'm no good in Chinese, I picked up a few interesting information off it.
- OnGameNet will broadcast SC2 league that's taken in China (quite groundbreaking, since OGN never aired any SC2 programs) - TossGirL(STX) and MaRie(Sparkyz) are playing, who are the only 2 professional female SC progamers in Korea.
There has been many rumors in the air whether if Tossgirl would jump into SC2 scene or not, but if this is true it's such a great news for every TossGirL fans out there.
edit1: Attached a picture and removed a paragraph that demoralizes SC1 community edit2: Fixed a link
KTViolet was able to run up to Korean Masters while dealing with chemotherapy drugs and acute leukemia. I'm sure TossGirl could handle herself quite well considering she is without such debilitation.
On August 24 2011 06:18 Coldviolet wrote: With SC1 teams and MBC channel getting disbanned, OGN broadcasting SC2 and fans keep on digging evidences that SC1 progamers play SC2, I think I'm seeing where Korea's eSports scene is flowing to.
I hope your wrong. I think that if SC:BW dies we might never see such a phenomenon again
On August 24 2011 06:21 CeriseCherries wrote: mmm... IdrA can try and make her cry again
IdrA's going to Korea too, omg the perfect chance....IDRA VS TOSSGIRL SC2 SHOWMATCH!
Any moment in your progaming career that you enjoyed and that you regretted or wanna take back? - I enjoyed beating male progamers at prelims. ^^ A regretful moment was when I lost to non-Korean players at ESWC. I felt good after beating Chinese players, but after losing to IdrA, I cried a lot (though I don't usually cry; maybe the national pride got me.). It felt horrible.
So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
lol, like if being worst than IdrA in SCBW means that you are an awful player.
yes, compared to A-team players, they're quite bad, but they're still really good players.
With SC1 teams and MBC channel getting disbanned, OGN broadcasting SC2 and fans keep on digging evidences that SC1 progamers play SC2, I think I'm seeing where Korea's eSports scene is flowing to.
Was this really necessary? It will only cause a BW vs SC2 shitstorm. Not going to argue on how I disagree with this but just something to take into account as many of the more diehard BW fans are quite vocal
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
I don't dislike Tossgirl. I dislike the way she was used as a marketing tool, as the poster girl of Broodwar. She gave ten years of his life (she's pro since 2001!) to Broodwar, but what has she won? Peanuts! Frankly, the only honest thing you could do what saying her to try something else, yet they (STX) kept her around, playing two or three preliminary round games per year. I may be wrong, she may be really happy, but last time i read one of her interviews, she was really bitter. And i understand that.
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
lol, like if being worst than IdrA in SCBW means that you are an awful player.
yes, compared to A-team players, they're quite bad, but they're still really good players.
FPVOD of Tossgirl (b.net attack) She plays all three races decently (of course it's just random players on battle.net >.> but it still shows that she does have decent mechanics)
Edit: Also since this is battle.net attack she might not be playing as seriously (she is talking at the same time) so this doesn't show her full potential.
Gameplay starts at around 8 minutes
I think she has a lot of potential and can compete with anyone in SC2 if she practices a lot (of course this can be said for anyone >.> but it helps that she is already actually decent in BW).
A good thing about SC2 is the slate is clean and there's still time to catch up. In BW there are just too many good players so there sometimes a player may feel overwhelmed by that and won't practice as hard.
On August 24 2011 06:21 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: KTViolet was able to run up to Korean Masters while dealing with chemotherapy drugs and acute leukemia. I'm sure TossGirl could handle herself quite well considering she is without such debilitation.
Dunno how serious you are but violet is a lot better than tossgirl and you don't know when he hit masters maybe it was before his chemo or his extreme sickness started. I got the feeling I got trolled >.<
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Tossgirl is like 3-16 in broodwar. By contrast MC was 1-9 and mvp was 30-46, so we can see there is a great degree of variation and success in korean broodwar has not been a perfect predictor of success in korean sc2.
Personally I think it would be a long time before we see tossgirl making tournament runs in sc2, but its not ruled out. Strategy is a bigger factor relative to mechanical ability when comparing sc2 to broodwar - i don't think anyone doubts that.
On August 24 2011 06:21 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: KTViolet was able to run up to Korean Masters while dealing with chemotherapy drugs and acute leukemia. I'm sure TossGirl could handle herself quite well considering she is without such debilitation.
Dunno how serious you are but violet is a lot better than tossgirl and you don't know when he hit masters maybe it was before his chemo or his extreme sickness started. I got the feeling I got trolled >.<
Violet was still playing live BW matches in early 2011 so I doubt he had much time before his sickness.
On August 24 2011 06:34 legaton wrote: I don't dislike Tossgirl. I dislike the way she was used as a marketing tool, as the poster girl of Broodwar. She gave ten years of his life (she's pro since 2001!) to Broodwar, but what has she won? Peanuts! Frankly, the only honest thing you could do what saying her to try something else, yet they (STX) kept her around, playing two or three preliminary round games per year. I may be wrong, she may be really happy, but last time i read one of her interviews, she was really bitter. And i understand that.
She could've left anytime she wanted to... But it's an easy living for her compared to the other progamers who actually has to practice.
Female players like Eve and Tossgirl have always been on the debate for their gaming ability, but if female leagues such as SC2goesFemale (by ESL) get bigger and popular, I'm pretty sure they can take a big part in the scene. Female gamers being a marketing tool can be frowned upon, I understand, but the word 'professional' means 'money' is involved, and I think their appearance to the scene will actually grow eSports in general.
On August 24 2011 06:21 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: KTViolet was able to run up to Korean Masters while dealing with chemotherapy drugs and acute leukemia. I'm sure TossGirl could handle herself quite well considering she is without such debilitation.
Dunno how serious you are but violet is a lot better than tossgirl and you don't know when he hit masters maybe it was before his chemo or his extreme sickness started. I got the feeling I got trolled >.<
Violet was still playing live BW matches in early 2011 so I doubt he had much time before his sickness.
He could have done it in spare time or when he was just diagnosed but didnt really feel terribly sick yet and before chemo obviously since chemo absolutely destroys you .
Way more excited to see games from Sky, Fly, Infi, TH000. But whenever, I see Tossgirl I feel sad for her, not having success and being used as a marketing tool as said before must be harsh. The interview she gave a few months agon alongside female coach and commentator was not joyful.
Cuz ZergBong was the best player of SC:BW too right? -__-.
You can't just right off the bat say that if you are B-Team in SC:BW that you'll be crap it SC2 as well. It's almost like saying Player A beat Player B and Player B beat Player C, therefore Player A will beat Player C.... It's just not the case with games like Starcraft 2
I'm glad to see her switching over and hopefully she will have a lot more success in SC2. Great to see another SC:BW pro-gamer make the switch; I always love to see how they do on new but somewhat old "territory."
Tossgirl was a far more accomplished BW player in Korea than Idra.
I would have loved to see her against more foreign players in BW but the scene just wasn't built the way SC2 is in that regard. She didn't practice the same hours nor in the same environment most of the time but still managed to win games here and there against the likes of Reach, Yellow, GoRush, etc
I really don't see her as the laughing stock like so many others seem to. If she was just another girl who was in it for fun and just be another pretty face she wouldn't have given 10 years of her life to gaming, straight up dominating every other girl in the process.
Who knows how she'll do at SC2, I really don't think she has much to prove. Even the supposed self proclaimed mega geniuses like Garimto managed to completely fail at it despite the mechanics being so much easier.
dont dismiss tossgirl yet. its been proven that "bad" bw players can do good in sc2(all successful sc2 champs have been bw mediocre players). maybe she can make it too.
i personally think january can tare shit up in sc2 ^^v
yeah, B team BW players mean nothing... MMA is a code S player that was a no-name B teamer. Granted i wouldn't put him in a top 5 SC2 players but he's definately a solid player.
I think Tossgirl definitely has a ton of potential in SC2, though at this point, it'll take longer for her to catch up to the rest of the competition, even with BW mechanics and skills.
As someone mentioned before, even though she was quite mediocre compared to the top male BW players, she isn't that bad of a player in general, and we could only speculate how well she could have competed against non-Korean players.
Anyways, I'm especially curious about her contract situation with STX, considering that the team is doing some heavy renovations.
Well I think tossgirl actually has a chance to become a good player in sc2, compared to bw. Sc2 doesn't have anywhere near as hard to get good as bw so I imagine she actually would have a good shot at becoming good/decent at least to the point to where she isn't losing to every pro she faces for the most part.
Would be interesting to keep track of honestly ^^.
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
If beating yellow in his prime is considered bad you must not know about Bw...
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
Yellow?
Yellow is quite far from his old self. His point is that MVP is the one with the highest _current_ rank who has switched over. *is offended you didn't try to make a point with boxer instead of yellow*
Also, yellow hasn't competed in anything (lol Boxer vs Gold player showmatch) yet, so I dunno why you thought of him
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
Yellow?
Sir, just to let you know Yellow only had few days to practice sc2. Therefore, that was the reason why he played very badly against Boxer
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
Yellow?
Nada, Boxer, July... lololol
all terrible at bw currently. currently. at the time of bw retirement too. any a-teamer today is way better than them.
On August 24 2011 06:18 Coldviolet wrote: With SC1 teams and MBC channel getting disbanned, OGN broadcasting SC2 and fans keep on digging evidences that SC1 progamers play SC2, I think I'm seeing where Korea's eSports scene is flowing to.
I hope your wrong. I think that if SC:BW dies we might never see such a phenomenon again
-_-
I know he edited it out, but come on now. That and the fact, Tossgirl is nothing more than a mascot for the team. She hasn't really competed in anything noteworthy in ages, so it should come as no surprise. Players can play it in their off-time.
On August 24 2011 06:18 Coldviolet wrote: With SC1 teams and MBC channel getting disbanned, OGN broadcasting SC2 and fans keep on digging evidences that SC1 progamers play SC2, I think I'm seeing where Korea's eSports scene is flowing to.
I hope your wrong. I think that if SC:BW dies we might never see such a phenomenon again
-_-
I know he edited it out, but come on now. That and the fact, Tossgirl is nothing more than a mascot for the team. She hasn't really competed in anything noteworthy in ages, so it should come as no surprise. Players can play it in their off-time.
I've never heard of this MaRie character.
BW will do just fine. Stop spewing up crap.
I haven't heard of her before either but she did well in the MSL-Female tournaments. (I think so anyway)... Some decently-Highlevel female player in other words.
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
Yellow?
Nada, Boxer, July... lololol
all terrible at bw currently. currently. at the time of bw retirement too. any a-teamer today is way better than them.
sorry if i got trolled, i can't tell.
to be fair, mvp could still take the odd game off flash when he switched. He wasn't among the best but he wasn't some jobber b-teamer either.
Anyways, i don't think this tossgirl thing is some 'sign of the times' at all. It doesn't seem to be part of any significant wind of change as far as korean bw/sc2 go. No single player moving to sc2 would be important (unless maybe they are in the power rank, then... holy shit)
On August 24 2011 06:21 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: KTViolet was able to run up to Korean Masters while dealing with chemotherapy drugs and acute leukemia. I'm sure TossGirl could handle herself quite well considering she is without such debilitation.
I hope you don't think that KTViolet, even in his current state, is worse than Tossgirl at SC
On August 24 2011 07:11 Destro wrote: i just want to see idra make her cry again.
i'd rather see HER make idra cry. it would be sweet revenge!
but in all seriousness I love to see it when BW players switch over to sc2. it can only mean that the game is getting bigger and bigger as an esport!!! :D who knows, maybe flash will be next?! (j/k but you have to admit that would be sweet)
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
While she is "bad" compared to many other progamers, tossgirl is still gosu. If she made the switch to sc2 she could easily become a toplevel player, thinking that she will probably be by far the best female player she should have no trouble making a lot of cash and finding a strong team to boost her.
If she signed with a foreign team and visited events like mlg and stuff like that it would probably be an insane marketing boost for any team.
I have a feeling it would be a let down if top level BW pros switched to SC2. They would just not be as dominate as they are in BW considering the skill ceiling is so much lower considering sc2 mechanic requirements themselves are much lower. As such i hope they never switch over :|
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
A lot of A-teamers have retired instead of switching since the release of SC2: HoGiL, fOrGG, BackHo, Really, Kwanro etc. Oh and pretty much all of these are way better than the players that made the switch.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
yeah, and he added that if Jaedong and him switched, they'd probably dominate (personally i won't deny that, I think it's a pretty safe assumption :p)
On August 24 2011 08:41 Cola.bier wrote: While she is "bad" compared to many other progamers, tossgirl is still gosu. If she made the switch to sc2 she could easily become a toplevel player, thinking that she will probably be by far the best female player she should have no trouble making a lot of cash and finding a strong team to boost her.
If she signed with a foreign team and visited events like mlg and stuff like that it would probably be an insane marketing boost for any team.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
i asked both personally at WCG GF LA.
also, when they are "done" with bw is not mutually exclusive with BW lasting another 5 years.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
i asked both personally at WCG GF LA.
also, when they are "done" with bw is not mutually exclusive with BW lasting another 5 years.
So Flash and JD both independently divulged what might be the biggest piece of SC2 news since launch to you (and only you) and you have decided to sit on this until now? Oh, that also assumes you speak Korean. Ok.
On August 24 2011 09:13 VPCursed wrote: im assuming eve was invited but, jessica didn't feel comfortable with Eve getting on a plane. motherly instincts!
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
i asked both personally at WCG GF LA.
also, when they are "done" with bw is not mutually exclusive with BW lasting another 5 years.
So Flash and JD both independently divulged what might be the biggest piece of SC2 news since launch to you (and only you) and you have decided to sit on this until now? Oh, that also assumes you speak Korean. Ok.
Since when is a SC1 progamer in Korea considering switching to SC2 such a big surprise? The majority of these SC1 progamers don't have that many options once they are done with SC1. Going back to school will be very difficult and finding a job that matches their current status would be near impossible. The most easy transition when SC1 is "done" is SC2. Not really a big surprise. A bigger surprise would be that they are done with e-sports than they are switching to SC2 at the end of their SC1 careers. It's not like they are immediately switching, which would be pretty notable.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
i asked both personally at WCG GF LA.
also, when they are "done" with bw is not mutually exclusive with BW lasting another 5 years.
So Flash and JD both independently divulged what might be the biggest piece of SC2 news since launch to you (and only you) and you have decided to sit on this until now? Oh, that also assumes you speak Korean. Ok.
i met them with my school club and spoke to them through a translator. eventually switching when broodwar is done (ie, no one plays it anymore) is not exactly surprising nor big news.
With SC1 teams and MBC channel getting disbanned, OGN broadcasting SC2 and fans keep on digging evidences that SC1 progamers play SC2, I think I'm seeing where Korea's eSports scene is flowing to.
Unfortunately, if the scene is indeed flowing towards SC2, MBC channel wouldn't be dissolving. Instead we have the situation where 2 major companies (1 of which is a major broadcaster of esports) are pulling out of the Korean esports scene altogether, which is really bad for the future of SC2. I hope more people realize this.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
i asked both personally at WCG GF LA.
also, when they are "done" with bw is not mutually exclusive with BW lasting another 5 years.
So Flash and JD both independently divulged what might be the biggest piece of SC2 news since launch to you (and only you) and you have decided to sit on this until now? Oh, that also assumes you speak Korean. Ok.
Jaedong already said in an interview that he'd switch over to SC2 eventually. There was a thread about it somewhere iirc.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
A lot of A-teamers have retired instead of switching since the release of SC2: HoGiL, fOrGG, BackHo, Really, Kwanro etc. Oh and pretty much all of these are way better than the players that made the switch.
I thought HoGiL was tired of progaming and was finally enlisting in the army to do his mandatory service, fOrGG is playing SC2 although not competitively, BackHo is going off to seminary, Really was just done with progaming, and Kwanro is kinda in the same position as HoGiL. Most of the A-Teamers that have retired have done so when they were absolutely done with progaming and were moving on to the next stage of their lives...I don't really see that with Flash at the moment.
She has played SC2 before...I remember her trying for one of the open season GSL qualifiers...in fact she is in one of the old Artosis vids from that time, like season 1 or 2. I guess this means she will be hopping over full time maybe. I hope she does well!
On August 24 2011 10:14 TheAmazombie wrote: She has played SC2 before...I remember her trying for one of the open season GSL qualifiers...in fact she is in one of the old Artosis vids from that time, like season 1 or 2. I guess this means she will be hopping over full time maybe. I hope she does well!
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
A lot of A-teamers have retired instead of switching since the release of SC2: HoGiL, fOrGG, BackHo, Really, Kwanro etc. Oh and pretty much all of these are way better than the players that made the switch.
forGG was confirmed playing SC2 ladder, after HuK played him (using the ID Raptor), and HuK got smashed by forGG.
the others i am not sure about at all, but i am sure that some play on smurfs for fun.
On August 24 2011 10:08 bigjenk wrote: So a long time non factor in bw that was popular based on sex is switching to sc2 to be the same thing, how is this important news?
I suppose it's only news for those of us that aren't raging douche-mongers. Quit trying to act cool, no one cares that you don't care.
"Wooooo I can't wait for TossGirL to be in SC2! I'm so excited for her to switch over."
"Why are you excited about Tossgirl? Plenty of other BW players and honestly more talented are in the transition to SC2 and they're not getting attention, why TossGirL"
"Cause she won... uhhhh... Cause she played errr toss? Cause she was the player who-" "..." "CAUSE SHE'S A GIRL."
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
Both flash and jd have said they will definitely switch when they are done with bw.
Excited to see jongmi and tossgirl play sc2 i learned alot about zvp 1 base toss from tossgirls bnet attack lolo
Definitely not true. Pretty sure Flash said that he expects BW to last another 5 years or something
i asked both personally at WCG GF LA.
also, when they are "done" with bw is not mutually exclusive with BW lasting another 5 years.
So Flash and JD both independently divulged what might be the biggest piece of SC2 news since launch to you (and only you) and you have decided to sit on this until now? Oh, that also assumes you speak Korean. Ok.
No offense, but shit changes all the frigging time. Considering he's just about to have surgery, you will just have to wait and see what happens with him.
On August 24 2011 11:07 Gamegene wrote: "Wooooo I can't wait for TossGirL to be in SC2! I'm so excited for her to switch over."
"Why are you excited about Tossgirl? Plenty of other BW players and honestly more talented are in the transition to SC2 and they're not getting attention, why TossGirL"
"Cause she won... uhhhh... Cause she played errr toss? Cause she was the player who-" "..." "CAUSE SHE'S A GIRL."
On August 24 2011 11:07 Gamegene wrote: "Wooooo I can't wait for TossGirL to be in SC2! I'm so excited for her to switch over."
"Why are you excited about Tossgirl? Plenty of other BW players and honestly more talented are in the transition to SC2 and they're not getting attention, why TossGirL"
"Cause she won... uhhhh... Cause she played errr toss? Cause she was the player who-" "..." "CAUSE SHE'S A GIRL."
... Again, she played Terran. lol
parody.
honestly i guess this is good for breaking the stereotype that girls can't play games, since SC2 is more mainstream but it's just kind of...
Well it doesn't really matter if she's good or not. She's a female progamer- no need to go further and it really is breaking a traditional gneder barrier
On August 24 2011 11:07 Gamegene wrote: "Wooooo I can't wait for TossGirL to be in SC2! I'm so excited for her to switch over."
"Why are you excited about Tossgirl? Plenty of other BW players and honestly more talented are in the transition to SC2 and they're not getting attention, why TossGirL"
"Cause she won... uhhhh... Cause she played errr toss? Cause she was the player who-" "..." "CAUSE SHE'S A GIRL."
Yes, it's true but so what?
I want to see a girl do well at Starcraft 2 and Tossgirl has much potential.
A comparison are foreigners. Why do people care about foreigners when most Koreans are better?
Because foreigners represent their country (or at least everyone except Korea) you want to see your country or a non-Korean to do well.
Same deal with Tossgirl. She's a girl but she has a lot of potential to do well.
Her being a former BW player is a huge factor/plus also.
On August 24 2011 11:07 Gamegene wrote: "Wooooo I can't wait for TossGirL to be in SC2! I'm so excited for her to switch over."
"Why are you excited about Tossgirl? Plenty of other BW players and honestly more talented are in the transition to SC2 and they're not getting attention, why TossGirL"
"Cause she won... uhhhh... Cause she played errr toss? Cause she was the player who-" "..." "CAUSE SHE'S A GIRL."
Yes, it's true but so what?
I want to see a girl do well at Starcraft 2 and Tossgirl as much potential.
A comparison are foreigners. Why do people care about foreigners when most Koreans are better?
Because foreigners represent their country (or at least everyone except Korea) you want to see your country or a non-Korean to do well.
Same deal with Tossgirl. She's a girl but she has a lot of potential to do well.
Her being a former BW player is a huge factor/plus also.
Until I actually see her play a lot and I mean a lot of games. I would stay mum on what kind of potential she has.
Girls/women can do exceptionally well if they wanted if they put the time into it. It's just the fact many more men/boys compete. Only one of the hard stats we have to go on.
On August 24 2011 11:07 Gamegene wrote: "Wooooo I can't wait for TossGirL to be in SC2! I'm so excited for her to switch over."
"Why are you excited about Tossgirl? Plenty of other BW players and honestly more talented are in the transition to SC2 and they're not getting attention, why TossGirL"
"Cause she won... uhhhh... Cause she played errr toss? Cause she was the player who-" "..." "CAUSE SHE'S A GIRL."
... Again, she played Terran. lol
parody.
honestly i guess this is good for breaking the stereotype that girls can't play games, since SC2 is more mainstream but it's just kind of...
bleh.
Sadly lots of people believe she plays toss just based off her name. s;
until we get official translation I am not buying this it doesn't say she is switching to sc2 scene permanently it's merely an invitational for tossgirl to china .
On August 24 2011 11:07 Gamegene wrote: "Wooooo I can't wait for TossGirL to be in SC2! I'm so excited for her to switch over."
"Why are you excited about Tossgirl? Plenty of other BW players and honestly more talented are in the transition to SC2 and they're not getting attention, why TossGirL"
"Cause she won... uhhhh... Cause she played errr toss? Cause she was the player who-" "..." "CAUSE SHE'S A GIRL."
To be fair, there really aren't any broodwar players better than her transitioning that aren't getting as much attention. The only people better than her were 4 legends (boxer, july, yellow, nada) and MVP.
Edit: I forgot about puma and sangho. Puma gets more atention, so I guess that just leaves sangho. Although you could argue that he got about as much hype, or it is at least close
On August 24 2011 11:29 hacklebeast wrote: To be fair, there really aren't any broodwar players better than her transitioning that aren't getting as much attention. The only people better than her were 4 legends (boxer, july, yellow, nada) and MVP.
To be more fair the players people considered "weak BW players" are generally doing much better than boxer july nada etc
On August 24 2011 11:29 hacklebeast wrote: To be fair, there really aren't any broodwar players better than her transitioning that aren't getting as much attention. The only people better than her were 4 legends (boxer, july, yellow, nada) and MVP.
To be more fair the players people considered "weak BW players" are generally doing much better than boxer july nada etc
o:
And those weaker players got hype too. Who switches from pro BW and doesn't get hype? Sure, people like rainbow have died out, but just about everyone has gotten it at some point.
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
This is simply not true. Sorry to burst your bubble.
There is evidence for her being the best female BW player of all time as she's held her own against all of the female competitors. There is no evidence to substantiate that other claim though and foreigners have beat her with ease before. In fact, they made her look bad.
The guys were yanking her chain in the last All-Star sanctioned event as well. Very little respect :/
I'm sure we all would love some female participation in E-SPORTS . TossGirl may not be great at BW, but we all saw how ex-BW players dominated the new SC2 players. And I never knew IdrA (unintentionally) made her cry, LOL!
On August 24 2011 11:13 CeriseCherries wrote: Well it doesn't really matter if she's good or not. She's a female progamer- no need to go further and it really is breaking a traditional gneder barrier
My girlfriend was one of the best Guilty Gear players in the United States, and was good enough to beat japanese pro gamers.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
A lot of A-teamers have retired instead of switching since the release of SC2: HoGiL, fOrGG, BackHo, Really, Kwanro etc. Oh and pretty much all of these are way better than the players that made the switch.
The hilarious part is that forgg was like rank 14 grandmaster or something on the korean ladder, and has no intention of playing the game professionally.
So many people here have so many bad perception of tossgirl in broodwar in my heart seriously if she evers changes to sc2 I hope she stomps you guys so bad that you can't speak for the next 10 years . I believe in tossgirl show these hater what you are made.
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
lol, like if being worst than IdrA in SCBW means that you are an awful player.
yes, compared to A-team players, they're quite bad, but they're still really good players.
FPVOD of Tossgirl (b.net attack) She plays all three races decently (of course it's just random players on battle.net >.> but it still shows that she does have decent mechanics)
Edit: Also since this is battle.net attack she might not be playing as seriously (she is talking at the same time) so this doesn't show her full potential.
I think she has a lot of potential and can compete with anyone in SC2 if she practices a lot (of course this can be said for anyone >.> but it helps that she is already actually decent in BW).
A good thing about SC2 is the slate is clean and there's still time to catch up. In BW there are just too many good players so there sometimes a player may feel overwhelmed by that and won't practice as hard.
The game at 47, tossgirl plays two hatch hydra...? Who does that?
You don't have the economy of 3 hatch and you don't have the tech to make up for it of muta or lurker builds T_T Horrible offrace.
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
lol, like if being worst than IdrA in SCBW means that you are an awful player.
yes, compared to A-team players, they're quite bad, but they're still really good players.
FPVOD of Tossgirl (b.net attack) She plays all three races decently (of course it's just random players on battle.net >.> but it still shows that she does have decent mechanics)
Edit: Also since this is battle.net attack she might not be playing as seriously (she is talking at the same time) so this doesn't show her full potential.
I think she has a lot of potential and can compete with anyone in SC2 if she practices a lot (of course this can be said for anyone >.> but it helps that she is already actually decent in BW).
A good thing about SC2 is the slate is clean and there's still time to catch up. In BW there are just too many good players so there sometimes a player may feel overwhelmed by that and won't practice as hard.
The game at 47, tossgirl plays two hatch hydra...? Who does that?
You don't have the economy of 3 hatch and you don't have the tech to make up for it of muta or lurker builds T_T Horrible offrace.
I like to see you play better than her i bet you can't even win a C+ iccup korean player .
If she likes SC2 then it's gonna be a lot better for her than bw ever was. From what i have read her bw time wasnt really great for her personally. If she keeps playin sc2 she might become huge even if she doesn't win big tournaments.
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
This is simply not true. Sorry to burst your bubble.
There is evidence for her being the best female BW player of all time as she's held her own against all of the female competitors. There is no evidence to substantiate that other claim though and foreigners have beat her with ease before. In fact, they made her look bad.
The guys were yanking her chain in the last All-Star sanctioned event as well. Very little respect :/
Do you realize just how bad some of the current Code S players were in BW? We're talking bottom of the B-team if even that high.
That's the power of makeup. From what pictures I've seen of her (mostly in the Nada's body thread I think), she's not that cute without the makeup imo.
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
No, this is just wrong. She was a B-Teamer, and there are plenty of foreigners who could be at that level if they put the time into Korea. There are also dozens of pro's now who were simply better than her too. People give MC shit for being 1-9 in Televised matchs, she was 3-19 in pro matches.
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
No, this is just wrong. She was a B-Teamer, and there are plenty of foreigners who could be at that level if they put the time into Korea. There are also dozens of pro's now who were simply better than her too. People give MC shit for being 1-9 in Televised matchs, she was 3-19 in pro matches.
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
This is simply not true. Sorry to burst your bubble.
There is evidence for her being the best female BW player of all time as she's held her own against all of the female competitors. There is no evidence to substantiate that other claim though and foreigners have beat her with ease before. In fact, they made her look bad.
The guys were yanking her chain in the last All-Star sanctioned event as well. Very little respect :/
Do you realize just how bad some of the current Code S players were in BW? We're talking bottom of the B-team if even that high.
I think you are undermining how hard it is to actually qualify to make it there. Teams are allowed to dish out pro gamer licenses to two individuals without going through standard protocol a year. Hell, some of the practice partners they bring into their practice facilities don't even have pro gamer licenses. In order to qualify for the pro league let alone the B-Team you need to have this license. The only other way of getting it is through the Courage Tournament and the players you meet there aren't pushovers. Fuck, even Legionnaire had to run the 256 player gauntlet. Thank God that doesn't exist anymore. I'm sure Rekrul could tell you all his tales with regards to Courage too. He wrote up all about it. Anyway, Courage isn't the end of it. Once you get that Pro Gamer license a team still has to draft you. Nothing stopping them from cutting you.
Sure, they were bad compared to the other guys who made themselves household names in Korea. They earned their right to play for those teams. Very few players get fast tracked and in many cases those kids weren't ready back then. You need a lot of time to develop and some guys just cannot handle their nerves in higher pressure situations let alone television.
That and we're talking about two different games.
On August 24 2011 14:02 JL_GG wrote: Um bro she was on the A team roster like a few month ago March I think....
To be on the bench with her teammates. She's been around for a long time and paid her dues with regard to the length of her service. No other impact.
so much misinformation here. For one, about foreigners making her look bad there were only 2 that beat her that I can remember. that being idra and white_ra. She did play others if anyone remembers the tournament artosis held that allowed foreigners to play pros and eachother for a chance to go to korea (this is the tournament idra won). tossgirl played two "top" foreigners in that tournament and stomped them
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
No, this is just wrong. She was a B-Teamer, and there are plenty of foreigners who could be at that level if they put the time into Korea. There are also dozens of pro's now who were simply better than her too. People give MC shit for being 1-9 in Televised matchs, she was 3-19 in pro matches.
It was proven time and again that B-teamers were easily better than top foreigners.
However, I agree with you in the sense that Tossgirl is not even close to an average B-teamer. She is in all likelihood the very worst progamer in Korea. Just look at what she's done in preliminaries. Since the beginning of 2008 (arbitrarily) she's 10-41 - in preliminaries. She has only advanced past the first round of her group 3 times, and never further than that.
Yea idra was pretty close to the bottom of the barrel for the majority of his stay in korea and he was definitely the best foreigner in BW with Nony and F91 behind, and they stomped all the other foreigners pretty hard
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
No, this is just wrong. She was a B-Teamer, and there are plenty of foreigners who could be at that level if they put the time into Korea. There are also dozens of pro's now who were simply better than her too. People give MC shit for being 1-9 in Televised matchs, she was 3-19 in pro matches.
Technically 3/19 is a better ratio than 1/9 :p
Compare their overall results and not just the games that counted towards ELO and you'll get a much better comparison. In the time Tossgirl and MC's careers overlapped, Tossgirl only was 12-45 while MC was 43-42.
On August 24 2011 14:54 sAfuRos wrote: Yea idra was pretty close to the bottom of the barrel for the majority of his stay in korea and he was definitely the best foreigner in BW with Nony and F91 behind, and they stomped all the other foreigners pretty hard
Except Pj and Lx, and if we want to delve into the past, Legionnaire, Giyom, Elky, hell even Mondragon and Sen and some others could have at least made it in Korea.
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
On August 24 2011 13:50 mikyaJ wrote: Tossgirl looks really different now
woah, she looks so different.....it's like she had plastic surgery, which is quite common in Korea.
Korans are crazy. This whole culture is a joke.
Dunno, there's a pretty good rationalization for it.
We live in a materialistic world, even though we'd rather live in one that wasn't so shallow. You can't realistically expect people not to take looks into account. I can't think of a specific study off the top of my head, but I'm sure there have been several that show good looking people do better financially/materially.
Cynical as it may be, cosmetic surgery can be a very good investment for the future. Koreans are just more honest with the reality of the world
That said, I have no idea whether tossgirl had some surgery or not from that one pic :O
On August 24 2011 13:50 mikyaJ wrote: Tossgirl looks really different now
woah, she looks so different.....it's like she had plastic surgery, which is quite common in Korea.
Korans are crazy. This whole culture is a joke.
Dunno, there's a pretty good rationalization for it.
We live in a materialistic world, even though we'd rather live in one that wasn't so shallow. You can't realistically expect people not to take looks into account. I can't think of a specific study off the top of my head, but I'm sure there have been several that show good looking people do better financially/materially.
Cynical as it may be, cosmetic surgery can be a very good investment for the future. Koreans are just more honest with the reality of the world
That said, I have no idea whether tossgirl had some surgery or not from that one pic :O
Not going to comment on your philosophy but plastic surgery is definitely the norm for Korean girls who have already graduated from high school. In fact, I'd say about 80% of the girls in Seoul in their final year of high school have had some form cosmetic surgery done - eyelid surgery is the most common. Plastic surgery is less prevalent outside Seoul. Also, that doesn't mean that everyone comes out looking like a Korean model. Mostly, Korean girls only have a couple surgeries (likely eye and nose, and for the nose surgery, they may cite some "medical" reason for it like that it helps them breathe better).
Edit: that is to say that for those of you who worship models like Hwang Mi Hee and Ryu Ji Hye, well I hope you don't have some type of ideal of natural beauty, because they have had a lot of surgery in a profession that is intensely competitive
On August 24 2011 13:50 mikyaJ wrote: Tossgirl looks really different now
woah, she looks so different.....it's like she had plastic surgery, which is quite common in Korea.
Korans are crazy. This whole culture is a joke.
wtf, no insulting please. Imagine everyone living in your country is fricking johnny depp level of handsome, getting all the jobs and getting some girls (not all since everyone is that good looking). You will just end up forever alone and worse yet, who knows if you can find a good job (look matters quite a lot in jobs, contraction to most would believe)
On August 24 2011 14:54 sAfuRos wrote: Yea idra was pretty close to the bottom of the barrel for the majority of his stay in korea and he was definitely the best foreigner in BW with Nony and F91 behind, and they stomped all the other foreigners pretty hard
Except Pj and Lx, and if we want to delve into the past, Legionnaire, Giyom, Elky, hell even Mondragon and Sen and some others could have at least made it in Korea.
Yes but we don't really delve into the past because thats largely irrelevant to what we're talking about and its hard to really say given improvements in skill...2010 BW IdrA would likely be A-team quality in the early-mid 2000's...its like comparing Boris Becker to Roger Federer...like yes, they (Legionnaire, Elky, etc) used to be great, but they are not the same. ALthough that's not to say any of the players listed would not still be top players
Anyways...given the relative ease of mechanics in SC2 and general aptitude of any BW progamer, anything could happen, so best of luck to Tossgirl
On August 24 2011 13:50 mikyaJ wrote: Tossgirl looks really different now
woah, she looks so different.....it's like she had plastic surgery, which is quite common in Korea.
Korans are crazy. This whole culture is a joke.
Dunno, there's a pretty good rationalization for it.
You are right. But maybe the poster above chose the wrong word. This is probably not Korean culture, but Korean Popculture. If one says it this way, then you can see parallels to our Popculture, but there it seems a bit more extreme as it appears to me. Also i don't know how dominant stuff like K-pop is in Korea compared to our cheesy, superficial Popmusic in Europe/US is, which is the epitome of what you stated.
How many women can you think of who have even TRIED to be programmers? I can't think of very many... ToSSgirl is a Treasure That's the main reason I think that females are so rare on the SC2 scene, it probably has nothing to do with actual skill, but more to do with the number of women who can actually be bothered enough to try SC2 at a high level.
On August 24 2011 11:36 Headnoob wrote: tooooooo much attention being paid to her being female.
as a player she was pretty ehhhhhhhhhhh in BW, i'm curious to see her play SC2 but not entirely excited.
As a BW player she was better than pretty much every foreigner and a lot of the so-called top Koreans in SC2...
No, this is just wrong. She was a B-Teamer, and there are plenty of foreigners who could be at that level if they put the time into Korea. There are also dozens of pro's now who were simply better than her too. People give MC shit for being 1-9 in Televised matchs, she was 3-19 in pro matches.
It was proven time and again that B-teamers were easily better than top foreigners.
However, I agree with you in the sense that Tossgirl is not even close to an average B-teamer. She is in all likelihood the very worst progamer in Korea. Just look at what she's done in preliminaries. Since the beginning of 2008 (arbitrarily) she's 10-41 - in preliminaries. She has only advanced past the first round of her group 3 times, and never further than that.
Lol, at least she´s better than Hyungjoon so not the worst progamer <3
On August 24 2011 17:45 danielzig wrote: How many women can you think of who have even TRIED to be programmers? I can't think of very many... ToSSgirl is a Treasure That's the main reason I think that females are so rare on the SC2 scene, it probably has nothing to do with actual skill, but more to do with the number of women who can actually be bothered enough to try SC2 at a high level.
I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
Well, strictly speaking, the TLPD BW records of both are: MC 1-9 (10.00%) Tossgirl 3-19 (13.64%) So she got him, back then. However, when it comes to MC, people tend to forget that a player develops his skill over time, and he may have become generally better. (not claiming that he stands a chance vs the best BW players though)
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
This attitude needs to die a bloody death.
what the fuck MC was A- team LOL
Not really.
He was on MBC's A team, hasnt got much action, but played a couple of PL games Ah, sorry for double post, should have put the two in one :/
On August 24 2011 17:45 danielzig wrote: How many women can you think of who have even TRIED to be programers? I can't think of very many... ToSSgirl is a Treasure That's the main reason I think that females are so rare on the SC2 scene, it probably has nothing to do with actual skill, but more to do with the number of women who can actually be bothered enough to try SC2 at a high level.
Well think about it - most women didn't play BW (and I'd guess that there were even less women in old BW than there are in SC2 too) and don't have years of RTS experience to the degree they'd be able to immediatelly transition to SC2 pro. It's hard for any woman to catch up to these people who have years and years of BW experience; my guess would be she'd have to practice as twice as the guys who actually came with BW background.
Most of girls are either newbies to gaming or newbies to StarCraft, compared to their male counterparts, so they have a hell a lot of catching up to do. Also, most women do not have chance to practice with current pro's either, so again, there are just way too many factors why it's even hard for woman to go and try being pro. They have yet to learn and grasp the game first before that even happens; and with all the competition out there, it makes it even harder for them. Of course, this is just the way I see it and I may be wrong in this assesment... and I really wish there was some way to make girls compete more; but with all these setbacks regarding skill, experience and reactions you get to see when 'girl' pops out here; everyone commenting on how she shouldn't get attention (well, that I understand, gender is not important in SC2 and shouldn't be a factor; at least not to such degree it is now - supporting women if they try is imo OK, but everything has it's boundaries; within reason) and then downright insulting comments consisting of crap like how the girl looks like etc. Seriously, each time a girl playing SC2 is mentioned, a lot of stupid posts just comment on how hot or ugly she is. All points considered, it's better for a girl to just stay anonymous and not reveal she's a female; at least not that blatantly. The community, and this sadly is aimed at guys mainly - should decide what they really want. If they wish for women to compete, they need to accept them as part of the community, not pointing fingers at them as if they were ET; so the girl can actually feel naturally and part of the community, not being seen as 'uncommon' or weird.
I'm painfully aware that it's probably not matter of upcoming few years for women to be more 'mainstream' in SC2; but the women will be more encouraged to try if some reactions mentioned above would simply disappear. This may be male-dominated community but what stops the guys who'd like to see women trying this to actually behave less like cavemen? It may be stupid and naive statement to make, but I believe we, as StarCraft 2 community should try our best to make sure that nobody is alienated; no matter what their gender, skin-colour, religion or whatever is. It is StarCraft 2 which brings us together after all; and while everyone can't just love everyone else, conflicts are bound to happen in such huuuge community; we should strive towards our best, no matter if it's a guy or girl.
On personal note, regarding Tossgirl - My only disappointment with Tossgirl is, that she has this name and yet plays every other race but not Protoss + Show Spoiler +
Back then, when I was thinking of nickname for myself on SC2, I was considering the same nickname she has; but once I checked someone of this name exists in old BW scene (back then I had no idea about some pro scene, be it BW or SC2, but I'm glad I was smart enough to check), I just didn't do it... would be silly
- so the disappointment is even bigger now, that she might go SC2 and still not play Protoss -_- Nonetheless, I wish her the best of luck...hopefully she'll do some justice to women in SC2
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
This attitude needs to die a bloody death.
what the fuck MC was A- team LOL
Not really.
Iron beeing on proleague roster at some point ,would mean A team.
Besides that BW pro teams are far from equal.
MBC hero was one of the small ones, so some A Teamers would be B teamers in other teams.
Anyhow I would never say Iron was a bad player, rather an excellent protoss. But then at the same time you have people such as bisu / stork / kal / movie etc.. it's not easy to be THAT good.
On August 24 2011 08:34 ZergMaestro wrote: Idra made TossGirL cry. What a jerk.
Flash would be one of the few BW progamers I think would retire instead of switching to sc2. With painful injuries he plays with. I don't think it would be worth it for him.
A lot of A-teamers have retired instead of switching since the release of SC2: HoGiL, fOrGG, BackHo, Really, Kwanro etc. Oh and pretty much all of these are way better than the players that made the switch.
I thought HoGiL was tired of progaming and was finally enlisting in the army to do his mandatory service, fOrGG is playing SC2 although not competitively, BackHo is going off to seminary, Really was just done with progaming, and Kwanro is kinda in the same position as HoGiL. Most of the A-Teamers that have retired have done so when they were absolutely done with progaming and were moving on to the next stage of their lives...I don't really see that with Flash at the moment.
Yeah and thats my point. If A-teamers get bored with BW they retire and if they still are good and want to remain active they stick with BW. So Flash will hardly be the only A-teamer to never make the switch to SC2, imo.
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
This attitude needs to die a bloody death.
what the fuck MC was A- team LOL
Not really.
Iron beeing on proleague roster at some point ,would mean A team.
Besides that BW pro teams are far from equal.
MBC hero was one of the small ones, so some A Teamers would be B teamers in other teams.
Anyhow I would never say Iron was a bad player, rather an excellent protoss. But then at the same time you have people such as bisu / stork / kal / movie etc.. it's not easy to be THAT good.
Yeah, that's what i meant. He would never be an A-Teamer @ KT / CJ / SKT etc. He was lucky that MBC isn't very deep. Of course everyone getting to the A-Team or playing TV is an AWESOME player, but compared to the bigger guns he was, well, bad.
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
This attitude needs to die a bloody death.
what the fuck MC was A- team LOL
Not really.
Iron beeing on proleague roster at some point ,would mean A team.
Besides that BW pro teams are far from equal.
MBC hero was one of the small ones, so some A Teamers would be B teamers in other teams.
Anyhow I would never say Iron was a bad player, rather an excellent protoss. But then at the same time you have people such as bisu / stork / kal / movie etc.. it's not easy to be THAT good.
Yeah, that's what i meant. He would never be an A-Teamer @ KT / CJ / SKT etc. He was lucky that MBC isn't very deep. Of course everyone getting to the A-Team or playing TV is an AWESOME player, but compared to the bigger guns he was, well, bad.
dude he qualified for starleague ? was on proleague roster? MBC wasn't the biggest team but not the worse by any mean. and there's no luck at that level of BW.
On August 24 2011 17:45 danielzig wrote: How many women can you think of who have even TRIED to be programmers? I can't think of very many... ToSSgirl is a Treasure That's the main reason I think that females are so rare on the SC2 scene, it probably has nothing to do with actual skill, but more to do with the number of women who can actually be bothered enough to try SC2 at a high level.
On August 24 2011 13:50 mikyaJ wrote: Tossgirl looks really different now
woah, she looks so different.....it's like she had plastic surgery, which is quite common in Korea.
Korans are crazy. This whole culture is a joke.
. Koreans are just more honest with the reality of the world
oh come on
I think the reality is that TossGirl didn't need that surgery to look good before
It's just different lighting, angle, and makeup. Her face variates a lot in different photos of her. Rest assured, she doesn't get a plastic surgery for each photo.
On August 24 2011 13:50 mikyaJ wrote: Tossgirl looks really different now
woah, she looks so different.....it's like she had plastic surgery, which is quite common in Korea.
Korans are crazy. This whole culture is a joke.
. Koreans are just more honest with the reality of the world
oh come on
I think the reality is that TossGirl didn't need that surgery to look good before
It's just different lighting, angle, and makeup. Her face variates a lot in different photos of her. Rest assured, she doesn't get a plastic surgery for each photo.
On August 24 2011 17:45 danielzig wrote: How many women can you think of who have even TRIED to be programmers? I can't think of very many... ToSSgirl is a Treasure That's the main reason I think that females are so rare on the SC2 scene, it probably has nothing to do with actual skill, but more to do with the number of women who can actually be bothered enough to try SC2 at a high level.
21% of programmers are female
Citation needed on that one, bro
Derp.... a programmer is someone who programs stuff. I don't think you realized that this guy was probably just trolling you for not realizing one of the most laughed at misspellings of eSports. lol pro gamer =/= programmer.
I hope that ToSsGirl is playing sc2 competitively. I hope we see many more females start doing well in professional eSports in the near future, with ToSsGirl Marie Luway and the active girls of ESL leading the way.
On August 24 2011 19:29 Genovi wrote: I do not get all the negativity. Cant we just be happy that we might have another Sc BW progamer switch over to Sc2?
basement nerds tend to hate on females for some odd reason
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
This attitude needs to die a bloody death.
what the fuck MC was A- team LOL
Not really.
Iron beeing on proleague roster at some point ,would mean A team.
Besides that BW pro teams are far from equal.
MBC hero was one of the small ones, so some A Teamers would be B teamers in other teams.
Anyhow I would never say Iron was a bad player, rather an excellent protoss. But then at the same time you have people such as bisu / stork / kal / movie etc.. it's not easy to be THAT good.
Yeah, that's what i meant. He would never be an A-Teamer @ KT / CJ / SKT etc. He was lucky that MBC isn't very deep. Of course everyone getting to the A-Team or playing TV is an AWESOME player, but compared to the bigger guns he was, well, bad.
dude he qualified for starleague ? was on proleague roster? MBC wasn't the biggest team but not the worse by any mean. and there's no luck at that level of BW.
What starleague did he qualify for? Being on the roster doesn't mean you're on the A team. The average BW team roster is 10-16 players large, including several A- and B teamers. In terms of the protoss race, MC was MBC's fourth choice protoss. He was not good. Better than tossgirl probably but no, not a good player in BW and he wasn't improving either. Switching to SC2 was the right choice for him.
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
This attitude needs to die a bloody death.
what the fuck MC was A- team LOL
Not really.
Iron beeing on proleague roster at some point ,would mean A team.
Besides that BW pro teams are far from equal.
MBC hero was one of the small ones, so some A Teamers would be B teamers in other teams.
Anyhow I would never say Iron was a bad player, rather an excellent protoss. But then at the same time you have people such as bisu / stork / kal / movie etc.. it's not easy to be THAT good.
Yeah, that's what i meant. He would never be an A-Teamer @ KT / CJ / SKT etc. He was lucky that MBC isn't very deep. Of course everyone getting to the A-Team or playing TV is an AWESOME player, but compared to the bigger guns he was, well, bad.
dude he qualified for starleague ? was on proleague roster? MBC wasn't the biggest team but not the worse by any mean. and there's no luck at that level of BW.
What starleague did he qualify for? Being on the roster doesn't mean you're on the A team. The average BW team roster is 10-16 players large, including several A- and B teamers. In terms of the protoss race, MC was MBC's fourth choice protoss. He was not good. Better than tossgirl probably but no, not a good player in BW and he wasn't improving either. Switching to SC2 was the right choice for him.
On August 24 2011 17:52 Evangelist wrote: I find it amusing how someone who was like D-- like MC was and known for dying continually can be lauded as the amazing protoss, but the moment a woman tries to do the same thing the nerds are talking about how it's an "embarassment to the community."
This attitude needs to die a bloody death.
what the fuck MC was A- team LOL
Not really.
Iron beeing on proleague roster at some point ,would mean A team.
Besides that BW pro teams are far from equal.
MBC hero was one of the small ones, so some A Teamers would be B teamers in other teams.
Anyhow I would never say Iron was a bad player, rather an excellent protoss. But then at the same time you have people such as bisu / stork / kal / movie etc.. it's not easy to be THAT good.
Yeah, that's what i meant. He would never be an A-Teamer @ KT / CJ / SKT etc. He was lucky that MBC isn't very deep. Of course everyone getting to the A-Team or playing TV is an AWESOME player, but compared to the bigger guns he was, well, bad.
dude he qualified for starleague ? was on proleague roster? MBC wasn't the biggest team but not the worse by any mean. and there's no luck at that level of BW.
What starleague did he qualify for? Being on the roster doesn't mean you're on the A team. The average BW team roster is 10-16 players large, including several A- and B teamers. In terms of the protoss race, MC was MBC's fourth choice protoss. He was not good. Better than tossgirl probably but no, not a good player in BW and he wasn't improving either. Switching to SC2 was the right choice for him.
No he did not qualify for the Bacchus OSL. Qualifying for a starleague means Ro16 for OSL and Ro32 for MSL. I never said he was "D-" but he certainly wasn't A team on MBC.
On August 24 2011 06:26 legaton wrote: So.... TossGirl jumping to SC2 is the sign of what, OP? TossGirl is the saddest story of e-sports. She's just a gamer that lacks the mechanics and talent to really become a professional BW player (she actually was worst than Idra, and that's pretty bad), yet still around as a marketing gimmick. Her only appeal was that she was a girl, and she's getting old... I remember reading an interview about females in Broodwar Most of them were commentators and managers. She was the only player, and she sounded pretty bitter and rightly so. I really believe she loved broodwar, but she just wasn't cut to it.
If it is true, i hope she wins some bucks as she needs them after all these years making little to nothing in Broodwar. But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea. It would really means a lot if she becomes a good player of SC2.
I've understood that SC2 is more about decision making. There must be other stuff too that's more important in sc2 than in BW. Mechanics really are not too hard in SC2, but in BW... Yeah, I'm trying to say SC2 and SC1 are both good and different games. Hopefully Tossgirl does better in SC2 (maybe it suit's her better). Best for Tossgirl =)
As much as I want Tossgirl to do well, I don't think she will. She has about 400 sc1 apm but hasn't been doing well. While in sc1, having a high apm puts you significantly at an advantage, sc2 has shown time and time again that apm after a certain range isn't all that important. If she has been doing poorly, and she has a great apm, that means her game sense is off, and it will only worsen in sc2.
On August 25 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote: If The Elephant in the Room is correct, Tossgirl is going to stomp faces.
I'm looking forward to it!
If the Elephant in the Rooms was correct, then Nada, July( and Boxer) would already have stomped everything.
Not at all because the average skill in 2009-2010 was significantly higher than when July,NaDa, Boxer were at their peak. Their results weren't so hot in late BW.
On August 25 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote: If The Elephant in the Room is correct, Tossgirl is going to stomp faces.
I'm looking forward to it!
If the Elephant in the Rooms was correct, then Nada, July( and Boxer) would already have stomped everything.
Those three were "over the hill" BW players. Look at someone like Nestea and MC barely winning any BW Proleague games and stomping face in SC2. Elephant in the room was more about the current BW players that play on a weekly basis in Proleague games, THOSE are the ones that would push SC2 to the next level.
On August 25 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote: If The Elephant in the Room is correct, Tossgirl is going to stomp faces.
I'm looking forward to it!
If the Elephant in the Rooms was correct, then Nada, July( and Boxer) would already have stomped everything.
Those three were "over the hill" BW players. Look at someone like Nestea and MC barely winning any BW Proleague games and stomping face in SC2. Elephant in the room was more about the current BW players that play on a weekly basis in Proleague games, THOSE are the ones that would push SC2 to the next level.
Tossgirl is an "over the hill" BW player.
Nada wasn't really over the hill was he? Not amazing anymore or anything but he still did OK at the top level?
Anyway the likes of MC or Nestea were definitely worse than he ever was in BW, yet they're both comfortably better than him in SC2. The games aren't identical which is why that article was daft.
On August 24 2011 19:57 DreamOen wrote: This maybe means the first (BIG) step to the mass transfer from BW.
BoXeR, July, Nada and yellow switch to SC2 didn't cause the mass transfer and yet you think that TossGirl on her own will have bigger impact ? Can you please explain your reasoning behind this.
On August 24 2011 19:57 DreamOen wrote: This maybe means the first (BIG) step to the mass transfer from BW.
BoXeR, July, Nada and yellow switch to SC2 didn't cause the mass transfer and yet you think that TossGirl on her own will have bigger impact ? Can you please explain your reasoning behind this.
Well BW is having its own troubles (MBC, teams disbanding etc) and Tossgirl switching is quite possibly related to that so uhmmm, she's kinda related to any incoming mass transfer?
OK not really. It is quite possible there'll be a mass transfer soon tho.
Some of you seem downright threatened by the fact that a girl might be good at StarCraft. I think a majority of the posters here are pretty supportive, and actually want to see females at the top level, but some of you are so overtly threatened it's kind of funny...in that sad sort of way.
On August 25 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote: If The Elephant in the Room is correct, Tossgirl is going to stomp faces.
I'm looking forward to it!
If the Elephant in the Rooms was correct, then Nada, July( and Boxer) would already have stomped everything.
Those three were "over the hill" BW players. Look at someone like Nestea and MC barely winning any BW Proleague games and stomping face in SC2. Elephant in the room was more about the current BW players that play on a weekly basis in Proleague games, THOSE are the ones that would push SC2 to the next level.
Tossgirl is an "over the hill" BW player.
Nada wasn't really over the hill was he? Not amazing anymore or anything but he still did OK at the top level?
Anyway the likes of MC or Nestea were definitely worse than he ever was in BW, yet they're both comfortably better than him in SC2. The games aren't identical which is why that article was daft.
Not really, he was only getting a start a month. The only one who could be considered A Team is MVP, but that was just because his team had absolutely no terrans. Had he been on any other team he would have been a B teamer.
On August 25 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote: If The Elephant in the Room is correct, Tossgirl is going to stomp faces.
I'm looking forward to it!
If the Elephant in the Rooms was correct, then Nada, July( and Boxer) would already have stomped everything.
Those three were "over the hill" BW players. Look at someone like Nestea and MC barely winning any BW Proleague games and stomping face in SC2. Elephant in the room was more about the current BW players that play on a weekly basis in Proleague games, THOSE are the ones that would push SC2 to the next level.
Tossgirl is an "over the hill" BW player.
Nada wasn't really over the hill was he? Not amazing anymore or anything but he still did OK at the top level?
No, he finally fell out of the kespa top 30 a few months before switching. His longevity was crazy, I don't think anyone is going to match his record for being in top 30 the longest.
The tossgirl thing is interesting... do we even have confirmation that she's playing sc2? Reading the thread it looks like there is some question as to whether this is going on.
On August 25 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote: If The Elephant in the Room is correct, Tossgirl is going to stomp faces.
I'm looking forward to it!
If the Elephant in the Rooms was correct, then Nada, July( and Boxer) would already have stomped everything.
Those three were "over the hill" BW players. Look at someone like Nestea and MC barely winning any BW Proleague games and stomping face in SC2. Elephant in the room was more about the current BW players that play on a weekly basis in Proleague games, THOSE are the ones that would push SC2 to the next level.
Tossgirl is an "over the hill" BW player.
Nada wasn't really over the hill was he? Not amazing anymore or anything but he still did OK at the top level?
No, he finally fell out of the kespa top 30 a few months before switching. His longevity was crazy, I don't think anyone is going to match his record for being in top 30 the longest.
The tossgirl thing is interesting... do we even have confirmation that she's playing sc2? Reading the thread it looks like there is some question as to whether this is going on.
She's an announced participant for a tournament in China.
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
MVP was higher than BoxeR, NaDa & July??
At the time he switched, possibly. He was playing vs. higher skilled players than Boxer/Nada/July and did decent.
Given that some of the top SC2 players are B-level BW players, I think TossGirl has a really good shot at being one of the greats in SC2. It could certainly be a breakthrough in SC2 gender equality, having a Code S player (or even, dare I say, GSL champion?) be female.
On August 25 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote: If The Elephant in the Room is correct, Tossgirl is going to stomp faces.
I'm looking forward to it!
If the Elephant in the Rooms was correct, then Nada, July( and Boxer) would already have stomped everything.
Those three were "over the hill" BW players. Look at someone like Nestea and MC barely winning any BW Proleague games and stomping face in SC2. Elephant in the room was more about the current BW players that play on a weekly basis in Proleague games, THOSE are the ones that would push SC2 to the next level.
Tossgirl is an "over the hill" BW player.
Nada wasn't really over the hill was he? Not amazing anymore or anything but he still did OK at the top level?
Anyway the likes of MC or Nestea were definitely worse than he ever was in BW, yet they're both comfortably better than him in SC2. The games aren't identical which is why that article was daft.
No, at the time of the switch, MC was probably around even with NaDa. Given another year, MC probably would have surpassed NaDa in skill - not because he was going to get better, since he was already starting to plateau, but rather due to NaDa's rapid decline. NesTea is an anomaly, but he also spent the majority of his later years as a Zerg coach for KT, so who knows how good he would have been had he practiced 1v1 for 12 hours a day like the rest of the progamers. So no, the article wasn't daft at all, as there are exceptions to every rule, but the general gist is correct.
Case in point: when Nal_ra went to Wemade to train with their "A-teamers", he went 1-9. Guess who was the only player he beat? Yep.
On August 24 2011 19:57 DreamOen wrote: This maybe means the first (BIG) step to the mass transfer from BW.
BoXeR, July, Nada and yellow switch to SC2 didn't cause the mass transfer and yet you think that TossGirl on her own will have bigger impact ? Can you please explain your reasoning behind this.
I think the poster meant "start of a big transfer".
When Boxer, July, Nada, etc switch it didn't necessary lead to a lot more BW players switching (not at the time anyway. Those players switched when BW wasn't in danger and only when SC2 started).
Yellow switched because he retired and Boxer wanted him to play (not because he thought BW was dying or anything).
However Tossgirl just switched on her own and she's one of the more big name players to switch.
With MBC switching to a music channel and other things, it seems to be the start of the mass transfer to SC2 (meaning other pro gamers may probably follow. The largest number ever).
Of course I think BW will live on for a lot longer but I'm sure some are worried and may thinking about switching.
The only real issue is that GOM currently has an exclusive contract with Blizzard to do tournaments in SK.
One tournament isn't enough to fuel all the progamers needs.
Once the contract expires and KeSPA (or someone else) can host their own SC2 tournaments (alongside GOM I assume) in Korea, I'm sure more progamers will transfer because there will be more prize money opportunities.
Right now it's sort of a lose/lose situation for progamers who aren't doing too well. SC2 has only one tournament in SK and there's lots of competition for that.
BW has more tournaments but it has much more competition and much more refined players (due to game being out much longer). Newer players or players who haven't been doing well will have a hard time reaching the top in either games.
Well we'll wait and see once GOM contract expires. I like GOM but I think there should be more than one major tournament in SK.
As for Tossgirl - I do hope she does well and does take practicing/playing seriously.
On August 24 2011 19:57 DreamOen wrote: This maybe means the first (BIG) step to the mass transfer from BW.
BoXeR, July, Nada and yellow switch to SC2 didn't cause the mass transfer and yet you think that TossGirl on her own will have bigger impact ? Can you please explain your reasoning behind this.
Well BW is having its own troubles (MBC, teams disbanding etc) and Tossgirl switching is quite possibly related to that so uhmmm, she's kinda related to any incoming mass transfer?
OK not really. It is quite possible there'll be a mass transfer soon tho.
SC2 is tiny in Korea, you shouldn't expect too much.
So far no female in starcraft history has ever been top tier, even if there have been female pro gamers. I really hope there will be an amazing female player in the future, that would be cool, gl Tossgirl!
On August 24 2011 19:57 DreamOen wrote: This maybe means the first (BIG) step to the mass transfer from BW.
BoXeR, July, Nada and yellow switch to SC2 didn't cause the mass transfer and yet you think that TossGirl on her own will have bigger impact ? Can you please explain your reasoning behind this.
Well BW is having its own troubles (MBC, teams disbanding etc) and Tossgirl switching is quite possibly related to that so uhmmm, she's kinda related to any incoming mass transfer?
OK not really. It is quite possible there'll be a mass transfer soon tho.
SC2 is tiny in Korea, you shouldn't expect too much.
I don't expect anything as I don't know that much about the situation there. However if there are simply fewer teams because some are disbanding, then those players have to go somewhere. Either retire, or change games - the obvious choice for the latter is SC2, small in SK or not.
Well we'll wait and see once GOM contract expires. I like GOM but I think there should be more than one major tournament in SK.
Agreed - or GOM making another tournament, or just leasing out rights to one or somesuch. The number of good players who can't get into Code A because they hit another really good player is crazy.
On August 24 2011 18:17 figq wrote: Well, strictly speaking, the TLPD BW records of both are: MC 1-9 (10.00%) Tossgirl 3-19 (13.64%) So she got him, back then. However, when it comes to MC, people tend to forget that a player develops his skill over time, and he may have become generally better. (not claiming that he stands a chance vs the best BW players though)
No actually, including prelims and Dream League games, MC in BW was out at 43-42, good enough to be put on the A-Team, where he started 1-9, and wasn't really given time to shine because he simply switched to SC2. Tossgirl however, has played many games, and was only on the STX A-Team because he was a girl. She was 66-147 overall, but she was still placed on the A-Team to go 3-19. That's my point.
On August 25 2011 02:02 Brainling wrote: Some of you seem downright threatened by the fact that a girl might be good at StarCraft. I think a majority of the posters here are pretty supportive, and actually want to see females at the top level, but some of you are so overtly threatened it's kind of funny...in that sad sort of way.
Who are you talking about? I just skimmed the entire thread and I didn't notice a single post that suggests that someone is "so overtly threatened it's kind of funny in that sad sort of way." Unless you think that noting how Tossgirl performs poorly means that someone is threatened.
I don't expect Tossgirl to do well. From what I gather, SC2 relies even more on strategy than SCBW (i.e. not as much on mechanics/APM), and gamesense is where Tossgirl fails horribly at the pro level. Due to the lower average talent level in SC2, however, she might be able to do a little better than she did in BW.
On August 25 2011 02:02 Brainling wrote: Some of you seem downright threatened by the fact that a girl might be good at StarCraft. I think a majority of the posters here are pretty supportive, and actually want to see females at the top level, but some of you are so overtly threatened it's kind of funny...in that sad sort of way.
Who are you talking about? I just skimmed the entire thread and I didn't notice a single post that suggests that someone is "so overtly threatened it's kind of funny in that sad sort of way." Unless you think that noting how Tossgirl performs poorly means that someone is threatened.
I don't expect Tossgirl to do well. From what I gather, SC2 relies even more on strategy than SCBW (i.e. not as much on mechanics/APM), and gamesense is where Tossgirl fails horribly at the pro level. Due to the lower average talent level in SC2, however, she might be able to do a little better than she did in BW.
this is true. some people are hypothesizing here that she lacked mechanics. but it was actually the opposite. her mechanics was on par with top progamers. it was her gamesense/strategy that was her downfall.
On August 25 2011 02:02 Brainling wrote: Some of you seem downright threatened by the fact that a girl might be good at StarCraft. I think a majority of the posters here are pretty supportive, and actually want to see females at the top level, but some of you are so overtly threatened it's kind of funny...in that sad sort of way.
Who are you talking about? I just skimmed the entire thread and I didn't notice a single post that suggests that someone is "so overtly threatened it's kind of funny in that sad sort of way." Unless you think that noting how Tossgirl performs poorly means that someone is threatened.
He might have been referring to legaton's post on the first page that said "But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea." Not sure if there's any other posts like that though.
On August 24 2011 18:17 figq wrote: Well, strictly speaking, the TLPD BW records of both are: MC 1-9 (10.00%) Tossgirl 3-19 (13.64%) So she got him, back then. However, when it comes to MC, people tend to forget that a player develops his skill over time, and he may have become generally better. (not claiming that he stands a chance vs the best BW players though)
No actually, including prelims and Dream League games, MC in BW was out at 43-42, good enough to be put on the A-Team, where he started 1-9, and wasn't really given time to shine because he simply switched to SC2. Tossgirl however, has played many games, and was only on the STX A-Team because he was a girl. She was 66-147 overall, but she was still placed on the A-Team to go 3-19. That's my point.
Dream league is a league only for people who aren't good enough for normal matches. Going .500 against people not good enough to play means that you are not good enough to play. Tossgirl and Iron were on about the same level as they were both nowhere good enough to play regularly.
Tossgirl is like 3-16 in broodwar. By contrast MC was 1-9 and mvp was 30-46, so we can see there is a great degree of variation and success in korean broodwar has not been a perfect predictor of success in korean sc2.
How is it possible that MC is only 1-9? Didn't he fluke his way into an OSL?
EDIT: No, wait. That was Tester. My mistake. Tester is 45-69, incidentally. And SangHo (Killer) is 43-63.
On August 25 2011 02:02 Brainling wrote: Some of you seem downright threatened by the fact that a girl might be good at StarCraft. I think a majority of the posters here are pretty supportive, and actually want to see females at the top level, but some of you are so overtly threatened it's kind of funny...in that sad sort of way.
Who are you talking about? I just skimmed the entire thread and I didn't notice a single post that suggests that someone is "so overtly threatened it's kind of funny in that sad sort of way." Unless you think that noting how Tossgirl performs poorly means that someone is threatened.
He might have been referring to legaton's post on the first page that said "But Tossgirl beating SC2 pros would be, i think,the nail of the coffin of SC2 prestige in Korea." Not sure if there's any other posts like that though.
In that case, Brainling was simply misunderstanding. It wouldn't be the nail in the coffin because Tossgirl's a girl; it would be the nail in the coffin because Tossgirl is bad...
On August 24 2011 06:27 Goldfish wrote: TossGirl has a lot of potential in SC2. I'm really interested!
Would she be one of the higher level BW players playing SC2? Well she isn't top tier but she is still good right?
Not even close, I mean she was good, but I don´t think she was above even some of the B teamers that now are doing quite well in SC2. MVP is still the highest ranking BW player who switched over
Nestea... He's up there too. And she was better than the B team... wtf?
Well Tossgirl was never B team because STX didn't have a B team. Though she was essentially B team as she was benched a lot and when she came out she never won sadly.
Tossgirl lacking strategic thinking not mechanics? I guess I can see that in her series vs debut Effort. She just went a SK terran (or just pure MnM?) every game and won the first game, but then Effort just used massive amounts of lurkers to win the next two games. It's been a long time since I've seen that series but that's how I remember it.
On August 25 2011 06:10 mikyaJ wrote: Tossgirl however, has played many games, and was only on the STX A-Team because he was a girl. She was 66-147 overall, but she was still placed on the A-Team to go 3-19. That's my point.
EPT
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