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On July 30 2012 13:43 Evangelist wrote:
It basically all comes down to infestors being the counter to everything again. They are just too damn good at what they do. At the moment, the ideal zerg situation is to build infestors to deal with everything, plus whatever good units are around at their level of tech. If infestors were T1, you'd have zergs holding entire protoss timings with 3 of the things plus some slow zerglings.
I think the nerf is going to come to fungal and it's probably going to result in zerg having trouble holding protoss air timings again with void rays into colossi. Which is fine, tbh. You shouldn't be able to hold off an entire tech route with 3 queens and a pair of spore crawlers while getting 80 drones and teching to an autohold. Hydras/corruptors should be the answer, and the crutch. Not infestors.
I can't tell if you're serious or trolling. Why would a fungal nerf do anything to Zerg's ability to deal with air timings? These days you hold that shit off with just Queen/Spore anyways since by the time your tier2 units come out it's already been too late, and you think Zerg players are going to sit around for Hydra and Corruptors lolwut. As for Corruptors, of course it's still hard to say anything but in HOTS I kinda half expect them to basically almost never be used especially if Hydras become more useful...seriously, nobody ever wants to build Corruptors except as a stepping stone to Broods, they're a trash unit.
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On July 30 2012 19:37 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 13:43 Evangelist wrote:
It basically all comes down to infestors being the counter to everything again. They are just too damn good at what they do. At the moment, the ideal zerg situation is to build infestors to deal with everything, plus whatever good units are around at their level of tech. If infestors were T1, you'd have zergs holding entire protoss timings with 3 of the things plus some slow zerglings.
I think the nerf is going to come to fungal and it's probably going to result in zerg having trouble holding protoss air timings again with void rays into colossi. Which is fine, tbh. You shouldn't be able to hold off an entire tech route with 3 queens and a pair of spore crawlers while getting 80 drones and teching to an autohold. Hydras/corruptors should be the answer, and the crutch. Not infestors. I can't tell if you're serious or trolling. Why would a fungal nerf do anything to Zerg's ability to deal with air timings? These days you hold that shit off with just Queen/Spore anyways since by the time your tier2 units come out it's already been too late, and you think Zerg players are going to sit around for Hydra and Corruptors lolwut. As for Corruptors, of course it's still hard to say anything but in HOTS I kinda half expect them to basically almost never be used especially if Hydras become more useful...seriously, nobody ever wants to build Corruptors except as a stepping stone to Broods, they're a trash unit.
You think a terran wants to build vikings, ever? The fact you consider corruptors a trash unit despite them being the most easily massable air unit in the entire game kind of shows how the zerg mentality is completely wrong to how they play the game. It's just build infestors.
By the way, I'm not talking about 1 void ray and a few phoenix. I'm talking mass void ray timings that take more than a few queens and a spore to hold off. Those kind of timings should require a zerg panicing.
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Those kind of timings should require a zerg panicing.
They do... thats the reason why they would rush Infestors if they scout it (if they dont scout it they are dead anyways).
Fact is: Mass voidray timings will kill any number of Hydra defense. Mass voidray timings will just roll over any number of Corruptors. Thats why they are rushing to infestors, because both other AA either have a very long build time (spire) or just MELT to anything that shoots them (hydra)
So your suggestion is: "Zerg should be forced to Build hydras/Corruptors as AA and then gg out of the game as both are to shitty to hold air timings. And even if they could, I can just take 8 additional bases after my timing as Zerg has nothing at all to harm me in any way."
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On July 30 2012 20:47 Scrubwave wrote:Show nested quote +nobody ever wants to build Corruptors except as a stepping stone to Broods, they're a trash unit. That's neat-o that zergs don't want to build Corruptors despite them being easily the best A2A only unit. Both on paper and in-game corruptors deal easily with vikings, void rays and they're one of the reasons why we see Carriers and BCs so rarely in pvz and tvz. And if you happened to overproduce corruptors and they're being useless- nothing is lost, you can just transform them into flying siege tanks! And lemme tell you, if a terran overproduces vikings and they're being useless, he's deep in shit. If you see a terran landing his vikings in a pro-game it's because the game is already won, either for zerg or terran. But of course zerg players feel like victims when they have to make units they don't want instead of drones/infestors/broodlords.
Well, I really like how non-zerg players simply love Corruptors and never cease to tell Zerg players how great and amazing they are and how easily we can "just turn them all to broodlords!!" rofl.
Yes Corruptors are a decent AA unit but lets be honest here, they are not really any better in air fights than Voids or Vikings are, just like the other units mentioned you're only really assured victory in an air battle if you roughly have superior numbers in the first place.
Secondly, morphing Broodlords costs a lot of money and a window of vulnerability where you sink money and supply into coccoons, if you are in an ongoing battle where your Corruptors suddenly become useless and you start trying to morph a bunch of Broods guess what? It's not gonna do jack shit for you and if the battle turns in your enemy's favor at all next thing you know all your Broods die and then you lose the game a few moments after that, there is a reason people turtle back behind 500 spines when they try to make Broodlords these days, the window of vulnerability. It's like you said, Terrans don't really like building Vikings because it's like walking a razor blade, Zerg have the same thing with Corruptors it's really not much different...the only race which doesn't seem to face this issue is Protoss. Think of it this way, if Ghosts could perform roughly the same job as Vikings as well as all the other things they do you would probably never build Vikings unless they somehow transformed into something else later.
Sorry to break it to you but Corruptors are not the magical unicorns you think they are.
And considering that many strategies hinge on things like "imma try to force him to make Hydras so I can steamroll him with my Colossus!!"...yeah, when you build things you don't want to build you can feel like a victim. Terran players feel the same way when they make 20 Vikings and it turns out there's only 1 Colossus and an army of hidden High Templar.
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I give up on this thread. It seems like nobody is actually willing to address the issues at hand, but instead prefers to talk about pushes/timings/whatever that haven't existed for a year as if they're still viable. Zerg players also seem to have a bizarre lack of understanding as to how Protoss/Teran actually work, and as to how PvT actually works, because they continually hold up wrong-headed examples from that matchup to attempt to support their points.
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* Disclaimer: Opinion
On August 01 2012 05:33 monkybone wrote:Didn't you hear Dustin Browder? TvZ is fine! If it was possible and I had the time, I would love to look through all the Terran replays to see the styles they played, how much they cheesed, how much their opponents cheesed, etc.
Problem: It is my opinion that the problem right now is that Marine/Tank is not as good as it used to be, even though most Terran players still use it in TvZ as far as I know. Tanks are just too immobile on the new maps, and with the Ghost change the Terran can't go toe-to-toe with the Zerg anymore. You can do the multitasking thing like shown in Day[9] Daily #473, but I feel like a lot of Zerglings catching these counter attacks in the open without a lot of Marines or Hellions will crush it with good multitasking from the Zerg.
Bio is similar. Ling/Bane/Infestor destroys it once the Zerg gets that tech up, and in the early game a mass of Zerglings works extremely well as long as the Zerg doesn't let a full Medivac drop into his base before his Zerglings start attacking it.
Temporary Solution: This will probably need further testing and analysis, but it's my opinion at the moment. For now I've been going Mech in my TvZ's, and it's working wonderfully. It is more strategic, relies a little more on scouting as you have to know if you need lots of Siege Tanks or not, but is IMO better than Bio/Mech or Bio at the moment.
TL;DR: I feel like Bio and Bio/Mech are UP, personally. Will probably need further testing etc, but for now I am going Mech and it is working very well in comparison.
+ Show Spoiler [Possible Solutions] +I've spoilered this because we don't even know if Bio is for sure UP, though I feel it is in TvZ.
--Give the Ghost back 45 damage Snipe, allowing the Terran to go toe-to-toe with the Zerg's BL/Infestor army using a primarily Bio composition.
--Nerf the Queen down to 4 range, allowing Hellions to have map control early game again while making it a lot harder to kite the Queens.
--Decrease the build time of the Reaper by 5 seconds, maybe buff some other way? (Encourages use of Reapers in the Terran's main army)
--Buff the Siege Tank in some way. (Will decrease viability of Bio in TvT, increases power of Siege Tank all-in's)
*Note these are poor suggestions, and just suggestions meant to bring up discussion. I have no doubt that only 1 or 2 of these will be implemented, if at all, and they will probably be changed if they are.
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On July 30 2012 20:59 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 20:47 Scrubwave wrote:nobody ever wants to build Corruptors except as a stepping stone to Broods, they're a trash unit. That's neat-o that zergs don't want to build Corruptors despite them being easily the best A2A only unit. Both on paper and in-game corruptors deal easily with vikings, void rays and they're one of the reasons why we see Carriers and BCs so rarely in pvz and tvz. And if you happened to overproduce corruptors and they're being useless- nothing is lost, you can just transform them into flying siege tanks! And lemme tell you, if a terran overproduces vikings and they're being useless, he's deep in shit. If you see a terran landing his vikings in a pro-game it's because the game is already won, either for zerg or terran. But of course zerg players feel like victims when they have to make units they don't want instead of drones/infestors/broodlords. Well, I really like how non-zerg players simply love Corruptors and never cease to tell Zerg players how great and amazing they are and how easily we can "just turn them all to broodlords!!" rofl. Yes Corruptors are a decent AA unit but lets be honest here, they are not really any better in air fights than Voids or Vikings are, just like the other units mentioned you're only really assured victory in an air battle if you roughly have superior numbers in the first place. Secondly, morphing Broodlords costs a lot of money and a window of vulnerability where you sink money and supply into coccoons, if you are in an ongoing battle where your Corruptors suddenly become useless and you start trying to morph a bunch of Broods guess what? It's not gonna do jack shit for you and if the battle turns in your enemy's favor at all next thing you know all your Broods die and then you lose the game a few moments after that, there is a reason people turtle back behind 500 spines when they try to make Broodlords these days, the window of vulnerability. It's like you said, Terrans don't really like building Vikings because it's like walking a razor blade, Zerg have the same thing with Corruptors it's really not much different...the only race which doesn't seem to face this issue is Protoss. Think of it this way, if Ghosts could perform roughly the same job as Vikings as well as all the other things they do you would probably never build Vikings unless they somehow transformed into something else later. Sorry to break it to you but Corruptors are not the magical unicorns you think they are. And considering that many strategies hinge on things like "imma try to force him to make Hydras so I can steamroll him with my Colossus!!"...yeah, when you build things you don't want to build you can feel like a victim. Terran players feel the same way when they make 20 Vikings and it turns out there's only 1 Colossus and an army of hidden High Templar.
So, I have made it a mission of mine to go around dispelling any of these horrible notions that the corruptors is any kind of good... Here we go.
I like to call the corruptors a flying stalker... But only the shitty parts. The cost is similar to a stalker (25 more min, 50 more gas); they're both somewhat beefy (160 hp for the stalker, 200 for corruptors); same range, move speed, supply cost, and very similar DPS, at least vs massive targets. Really, the only notable good thing the corruptor has going for it is the 2 base armor. Other than that, its fairly lackluster and all the things people cry about wiith the stalker being a weak combat unit apply to the corruptors just the same... only... Corruptors actually cost more and do less DPS unless the target is massive, then it is similar. Oh yeah, corruptors can't shoot ground units, forgot about that.
So there you have it... If you think stalkers without blink are awesome, you can call the corruptors almost as awesome... If you are actually any good at this game, you realize neither unit is particularly known for their combat prowess.
TL;DR: scrubwave, your noob is showing
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Holy shit I knew it was bad but this..
I also did this funny thing on sc2 ranks today. I was checking the amount of zerg, toss and terran players in all leagues on the europe server.
Bronze:
Zerg: 190 pages
Toss: 270 pages
Terran: 311 pages
Silver:
Zerg: 145 pages
Toss: 159 pages
Terran: 148 pages
Gold:
Zerg: 125 pages
Toss: 118 pages
Terran: 99 pages
Platinum:
Zerg: 100 pages
Toss: 89 pages
Terran: 68 pages
Diamond:
Zerg: 57 pages
Toss: 52 pages
Terran: 42 pages
Master:
Zerg: 32 pages
Toss: 32 pages
Terran: 24 pages
GM:
Zerg: 88
Toss: 94
Terran: 44
Quite strong numbers to be honest. One can see the huge change in terran representation the higher the skill of the league goes.
Terran representation in all leagues:
Bronze: 40,3%
Silver: 32,7%
Gold: 28,9%
Platinum: 26,4%
Diamond: 27,8%
Master: 27,2%
GM: 19,4%
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
Are we back to Raven story again?
Ravens are only useful now in clearing the creep alongside a Banshee (which is a minor investment considering that you deny most advantage Zerg tries to get), they are useful only if you're going Mech and Zerg is massing Roaches (PDD=instant win for Terran), otherwise, they get screwed over with Fungals, sure, Terrans should split the air units (which everyone states over and over again), it's nearly impossible to keep your air units spread out, simply because as soon as you order them to attack they stack, and plus, when Ravens are out, so are Corruptors, which can deal with Ravens decently, and Ravens can either be EXTREMELY cost efficient or just a waste of money (most of time).
Ravens are not a solution, neither is using Tier 1 units to defeat Tier 3 units (as many Terrans point out, they love their bio), but what advantage they have with best Tier 1 units, they have a disadvantage with Tier 3 units. However, Terran is getting new mech units with HotS, and many of them are quite powerful, but the game is not even in beta, too early to talk smack about it.
Ghosts still work wonders against any caster and whoever says this just doesn't know how to use them effectively (he has 10 Infestors? get 10 Ghosts), once you put Infestors out of play, they are just +supply in Zerg's army force, while Ghosts are still a viable attack unit. Snipe might have been overnerfed, but prenerf, it was ridiculously overpowered and imbalanced.
I agree that Zerg (I am a Zerg player myself) has an edge over Terran currently, for whatever reason, but that does not mean Terran cannot win. Terran can always win, but it is a matter of fact that I have defeated some Terran players that have outplayed me, simply because they made 1 mistake and that's it. But same happened when I outplayed my Terran opponent and accidentally run my Infestor squad in Siege Tank line I did not know was there, so it's kind of on a same footing.
And to person that wants to buff AoE damage from Siege Tanks, simply no.
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Holy shit, how the fuck can u kill zerg.....seriously....as protoss I CANT FUCKING HARRASS THEM, nothing protoss possibly has can CONSISTENTLY harrass zerg and stop them from getting maxed drone count before 8 minute mark without being completely all in and cheesing, in which case protoss still loses later on, I mean when was the last time you saw a zerg lose to a 4 gate, its prolly been over a year at least, protoss has no fucking killing power early on and so zerg gets a free fucking pass to drone and a move win the fucking game.
NOTHING PROTOSS MAKES CAN HARRASS ZERG CONSISTENTLY, I JUST NEED ONE FUCKING BUILD THAT WORKS IN MASTERS. GOD DAMMIT.
Why the fuck is it taking blizzard so fucking long to balance this shit, this god dam mu where protoss is forced to:
a) Play from behind no matter what
b) FFE everygame, and then auto lose to spine crawler rushes especially on daybreak.
I just want a way to win a fucking game, I have the mechanics, but the builds just dont fucking work.
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On August 01 2012 13:54 Asymptote1 wrote:
Holy shit, how the fuck can u kill zerg.....seriously....as protoss I CANT FUCKING HARRASS THEM, nothing protoss possibly has can CONSISTENTLY harrass zerg and stop them from getting maxed drone count before 8 minute mark without being completely all in and cheesing, in which case protoss still loses later on, I mean when was the last time you saw a zerg lose to a 4 gate, its prolly been over a year at least, protoss has no fucking killing power early on and so zerg gets a free fucking pass to drone and a move win the fucking game.
NOTHING PROTOSS MAKES CAN HARRASS ZERG CONSISTENTLY, I JUST NEED ONE FUCKING BUILD THAT WORKS IN MASTERS. GOD DAMMIT.
Why the fuck is it taking blizzard so fucking long to balance this shit, this god dam mu where protoss is forced to:
a) Play from behind no matter what
b) FFE everygame, and then auto lose to spine crawler rushes especially on daybreak.
I just want a way to win a fucking game, I have the mechanics, but the builds just dont fucking work.
To be fair, if something works CONSISTENTLY, then you mean protoss should win 100%?
Who cares if you can't win at master level if pros can still win.
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On August 01 2012 14:00 Orek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 13:54 Asymptote1 wrote:
Holy shit, how the fuck can u kill zerg.....seriously....as protoss I CANT FUCKING HARRASS THEM, nothing protoss possibly has can CONSISTENTLY harrass zerg and stop them from getting maxed drone count before 8 minute mark without being completely all in and cheesing, in which case protoss still loses later on, I mean when was the last time you saw a zerg lose to a 4 gate, its prolly been over a year at least, protoss has no fucking killing power early on and so zerg gets a free fucking pass to drone and a move win the fucking game.
NOTHING PROTOSS MAKES CAN HARRASS ZERG CONSISTENTLY, I JUST NEED ONE FUCKING BUILD THAT WORKS IN MASTERS. GOD DAMMIT.
Why the fuck is it taking blizzard so fucking long to balance this shit, this god dam mu where protoss is forced to:
a) Play from behind no matter what
b) FFE everygame, and then auto lose to spine crawler rushes especially on daybreak.
I just want a way to win a fucking game, I have the mechanics, but the builds just dont fucking work.
To be fair, if something works CONSISTENTLY, then you mean protoss should win 100%? Who cares if you can't win at master level if pros can still win.
Because zerg can use the EXACT same rock solid macro based play every fucking game like stephano and win no problem against protoss, but protoss CANT use the same fucking builds against zerg because then zerg just predicts everything and never dies or never loses and expo ever. Its some of the worst game design I have ever seen, just rediculous, I wish protoss was just as easy as macroing then collecting my free win....
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On August 01 2012 14:02 Asymptote1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 14:00 Orek wrote:On August 01 2012 13:54 Asymptote1 wrote:
Holy shit, how the fuck can u kill zerg.....seriously....as protoss I CANT FUCKING HARRASS THEM, nothing protoss possibly has can CONSISTENTLY harrass zerg and stop them from getting maxed drone count before 8 minute mark without being completely all in and cheesing, in which case protoss still loses later on, I mean when was the last time you saw a zerg lose to a 4 gate, its prolly been over a year at least, protoss has no fucking killing power early on and so zerg gets a free fucking pass to drone and a move win the fucking game.
NOTHING PROTOSS MAKES CAN HARRASS ZERG CONSISTENTLY, I JUST NEED ONE FUCKING BUILD THAT WORKS IN MASTERS. GOD DAMMIT.
Why the fuck is it taking blizzard so fucking long to balance this shit, this god dam mu where protoss is forced to:
a) Play from behind no matter what
b) FFE everygame, and then auto lose to spine crawler rushes especially on daybreak.
I just want a way to win a fucking game, I have the mechanics, but the builds just dont fucking work.
To be fair, if something works CONSISTENTLY, then you mean protoss should win 100%? Who cares if you can't win at master level if pros can still win. Because zerg can use the EXACT same rock solid macro based play every fucking game like stephano and win no problem against protoss, but protoss CANT use the same fucking builds against zerg because then zerg just predicts everything and never dies or never loses and expo ever. Its some of the worst game design I have ever seen, just rediculous, I wish protoss was just as easy as macroing then collecting my free win....
I actually agree on that part.
Vortex vs BL infestor late game is not quite exciting for neither side.
You might criticize Zerg for doing all purpose roach ling mid game, but Zerg doesn't have as many options as the other 2 races.
While Protoss has 12 attacking/casting units, Zerg has only 10 units including queen.
Would you give 2 more untis to Zerg so that Zerg can do something different? Or would you still claim Zerg is OP enough? Such a dilemma.
I am sure Zerg wouldn't mind having more units for more variety play if Protoss/Terran complain about doing same thing every game.
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On August 01 2012 14:13 Orek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 14:02 Asymptote1 wrote:On August 01 2012 14:00 Orek wrote:On August 01 2012 13:54 Asymptote1 wrote:
Holy shit, how the fuck can u kill zerg.....seriously....as protoss I CANT FUCKING HARRASS THEM, nothing protoss possibly has can CONSISTENTLY harrass zerg and stop them from getting maxed drone count before 8 minute mark without being completely all in and cheesing, in which case protoss still loses later on, I mean when was the last time you saw a zerg lose to a 4 gate, its prolly been over a year at least, protoss has no fucking killing power early on and so zerg gets a free fucking pass to drone and a move win the fucking game.
NOTHING PROTOSS MAKES CAN HARRASS ZERG CONSISTENTLY, I JUST NEED ONE FUCKING BUILD THAT WORKS IN MASTERS. GOD DAMMIT.
Why the fuck is it taking blizzard so fucking long to balance this shit, this god dam mu where protoss is forced to:
a) Play from behind no matter what
b) FFE everygame, and then auto lose to spine crawler rushes especially on daybreak.
I just want a way to win a fucking game, I have the mechanics, but the builds just dont fucking work.
To be fair, if something works CONSISTENTLY, then you mean protoss should win 100%? Who cares if you can't win at master level if pros can still win. Because zerg can use the EXACT same rock solid macro based play every fucking game like stephano and win no problem against protoss, but protoss CANT use the same fucking builds against zerg because then zerg just predicts everything and never dies or never loses and expo ever. Its some of the worst game design I have ever seen, just rediculous, I wish protoss was just as easy as macroing then collecting my free win.... I actually agree on that part. Vortex vs BL infestor late game is not quite exciting for neither side. You might criticize Zerg for doing all purpose roach ling mid game, but Zerg doesn't have as many options as the other 2 races. While Protoss has 12 attacking/casting units, Zerg has only 10 units including queen. Would you give 2 more untis to Zerg so that Zerg can do something different? Or would you still claim Zerg is OP enough? Such a dilemma. I am sure Zerg wouldn't mind having more units for more variety play if Protoss/Terran complain about doing same thing every game. Personally, I think it would be cool from a gameplay standpoint if a unit/building/buff related to the Baneling was implemented, as it's a unit that requires micro from both sides, though perhaps a little less from the Zerg, and is (almost? not sure) always fun to watch.
Unfortunately I don't have any ideas to buff the Baneling, though. Maybe a Baneling launcher that takes a while for the Baneling to hit the target area?
Edit: To be a little more clear, I don't mean any straight up buff to increase usage, that would be stupid. I mean something like the mentioned Baneling launcher or a buff to Overlord Drops increasing usage past the mid-game.
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Not my post, copied it from Bronzeknee.
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Let me calculate how many Terrans there were...
There were no random players from any of the South American countries. 18 or 72 (25%) were Terran meaning 54 (75%) were Protoss or Zerg.
There were no random players from any of the North American countries. 36 of 128 (28%) were Terran meaning 92 (72%) were Protoss or Zerg.
There were no random players from any of the European countries. 47 of 200 (24%) were Terran meaning 153 (76%) were Protoss or Zerg.
In total 25% of the players from these qualifiers were Terran, meaning 75% were from another race (Protoss or Zerg). There were no random players.
Forget skill, fact is, after calculating these statistics I actually believe Terran is doing better than the other races statistically, and is outperforming their sample size!
Take a look at France. Of 16 players, 2 were Terrans (12.5%) and yet we had a Terran taking 2nd place. In Sweden we had 3 Terrans out of 16 players, and a Terran won the tournament. In Norway we had 3 Terrans out of 16 players and a Terran came in 2nd. In Poland we have 1 Terran player out of 8 players, and he came in third. In addition Terrans won in Finland (had 5 out of 16), Spain (had 5 out of 16), and came in second in Italy (had 3 out of 8) and Russia (had 4 out of 16). In Ukraine they took 3rd and 4th with 3 of 8 being Terran players.
In general, Terrans did well with podium finishes in countries they were well represented in. In countries they were poorly represented they did not fair so well, but had some strong finishes as I pointed out (Sweden, Norway and Poland). There was simply a lack of Terrans in general. For instance, the Belgium qualifier had no Terrans at all in it (4 Protoss, 4 Zerg), yet somehow it becomes more evidence of how Terrans are failing to make the finals? Combined Europe had just 1 Terran player of 16 players.
Finally, 24% of the players were Terran in Europe, yet 8 made the finals out of 32 total. 8 divided by 32 is .25, meaning that 25% of the players in the finals are Terran. Thus 24% of the players in the qualifiers were Terran, while 25% in the finals are Terran. Terran obviously did fine in the qualifiers.
The South American finals were a different story (only 2 of 16 were Terran, while 25% of the players in the qualifiers were Terran), but a Terran took the silver there anyway (and it ends up being 1 Terran, 1 Zerg and 1 Protoss coming out of SA for the World Championship when only 25% of players were Terran in the first place!).
So yes, Terran came in underrepresented, but they are actually performing quite well and taking more than their fair share of spots based on the statistics!
Anyone can cherry pick facts all they want, but anyone who takes the time to look at them can see what is misleading.
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I didn't write any of this text, It's Bronzeknees post into the thread about these w/l rations.
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On August 01 2012 16:13 Pinna wrote:Not my post, copied it from Bronzeknee. -------- Let me calculate how many Terrans there were... There were no random players from any of the South American countries. 18 or 72 (25%) were Terran meaning 54 (75%) were Protoss or Zerg. There were no random players from any of the North American countries. 36 of 128 (28%) were Terran meaning 92 (72%) were Protoss or Zerg. There were no random players from any of the European countries. 47 of 200 (24%) were Terran meaning 153 (76%) were Protoss or Zerg. In total 25% of the players from these qualifiers were Terran, meaning 75% were from another race (Protoss or Zerg). There were no random players. Forget skill, fact is, after calculating these statistics I actually believe Terran is doing better than the other races statistically, and is outperforming their sample size! Take a look at France. Of 16 players, 2 were Terrans (12.5%) and yet we had a Terran taking 2nd place. In Sweden we had 3 Terrans out of 16 players, and a Terran won the tournament. In Norway we had 3 Terrans out of 16 players and a Terran came in 2nd. In Poland we have 1 Terran player out of 8 players, and he came in third. In addition Terrans won in Finland (had 5 out of 16), Spain (had 5 out of 16), and came in second in Italy (had 3 out of 8) and Russia (had 4 out of 16). In Ukraine they took 3rd and 4th with 3 of 8 being Terran players. In general, Terrans did well with podium finishes in countries they were well represented in. In countries they were poorly represented they did not fair so well, but had some strong finishes as I pointed out (Sweden, Norway and Poland). There was simply a lack of Terrans in general. For instance, the Belgium qualifier had no Terrans at all in it (4 Protoss, 4 Zerg), yet somehow it becomes more evidence of how Terrans are failing to make the finals? Combined Europe had just 1 Terran player of 16 players. Finally, 24% of the players were Terran in Europe, yet 8 made the finals out of 32 total. 8 divided by 32 is .25, meaning that 25% of the players in the finals are Terran. Thus 24% of the players in the qualifiers were Terran, while 25% in the finals are Terran. Terran obviously did fine in the qualifiers. The South American finals were a different story (only 2 of 16 were Terran, while 25% of the players in the qualifiers were Terran), but a Terran took the silver there anyway (and it ends up being 1 Terran, 1 Zerg and 1 Protoss coming out of SA for the World Championship when only 25% of players were Terran in the first place!). So yes, Terran came in underrepresented, but they are actually performing quite well and taking more than their fair share of spots based on the statistics! Anyone can cherry pick facts all they want, but anyone who takes the time to look at them can see what is misleading. ---- I didn't write any of this text, It's Bronzeknees post into the thread about these w/l rations.
Well.. then Bronzeknees has quite poor understanding of what a winrate means. Because with some very few terrans finishing high, it means that the rest of the terrans must have had abysmal results. One terran winning a 32 player qualifier means that more than 25 other terrans lost first round.
If the winrate is correct (it seems somewhat low) it doesn't really matter that there were some single select terrans that placed well. It's the same as the first 2 GSL were won by Zerg. So clearly balance was fine back in the days? Then why did Zerg get buffs? Yep, they got buffs because a) the representation in the higher rounds of tourneys was bad and b) because the winrate was low.
So please... you can always find a single event, where a terran had a nice bracket and a great day. Especially with the number of events going on.
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EPT
