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On May 15 2012 04:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Playing Terran is so frustrating ATM. We have no T3 units so all we have is the mid game to do massive damage but any good Zerg or Protoss already knows those timings and doesn't get really greedy/ builds units in time to defend them. Then you just slowly lose the game as Zerg takes the map and Protoss gets their deathball. Yeah you can try to out multitask them and drop in mutliple locations but any good zerg wil have overlords spread to see it/ spines at every expansion. And then dropping vs protoss is useless since they can just warp in/ build cannons to defend. TvT is the only fun matchup to play atm.
And the mid game advantage thing in TvP is honestly bullshit. Yeah you can get fast medivacs/stim/combat shields but Protoss can aleady have 2 Collosus with range/ a bunch of other units by then. Then the only way to engage is getting a ton of vikings but by that point the mid game advantage is gone and you just slowly lose unless protoss engages really poorly.
Also I can't understand why Blizzard nerfed the Ghost so hard, its not like it was easy to just destroy brood lords as your own tanks would splash on them etc not to mention the micro to use them properly against Zerg is really APM taxing. And then they nerfed EMP which was dumb, and now we cant even go reactored hellion vs zerg since the queen buff. All they have to do is make 4 queens and you need like 10 hellions to be able to keep them back.
Its like Blizzard just wants Terran players to just play turtle mech and a move/ seige their way to victory even though that never works vs good players. Seriously, you just complain about the fact that it's hard to play Terran atm? What should Blizz do, probably buffing the race which already won constantly most of tournaments since the release of the game? Terran is very strong in every phase of the game imho. What you say is they don't have any T3. But how do you define 'T3'? Just because the race is designed differenetly this doesn't mean it's impossible to win with it. Always think like this: "The pros would easily beaten this opponent, so there are major flaws in my game I have to find and fix.". Probably it's hard to win versus protoss in lategame. But with a good amount of vikings or ghosts it's definitly possible. And against Zerg: Marine Tank + Vikings (if he has BL's) can easily win the game, if your macro is superior or atleast equal. Just try you best, and you'll get better. But seriously: Blizz can't change anything if pro play just shows that it is definitly possible. And always Drop. Especially against Zerg and Protoss. It will win you the game if you are not on Master level or so. And always continue to Drop even if the Drops fail first always continue to do it.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 12:24 Acritter wrote:
I'm watching today's Day9 Daily and writing down some interesting points as I hear them. I'll analyze them later. Some of this is paraphrased.
-the game should not be balanced at all stages of each game
-Terran is very powerful from the 10-16 minute mark
-Medivacs are the source of that power
-Stalkers give Protoss the advantage in the very early game
-in midgame, take map control and watchtowers, do drops
-once your third comes up, take fourth very soon after
-drops do not necessarily need to be microed
-KEEP THE PROTOSS PASSIVE
-Puma is NOT killing his opponent in the midgame, he is KEEPING HIM BACK
-All Puma has done is taken expansions and added on structures
-at 17 minutes, Protoss has maxed out his army and mined out his main (and half of his natural)
-Protoss cannot keep remaxing his army indefinitely
-people do not acknowledge how important it is that Terran has this fourth base and Protoss does not
-Terran can then trade with Protoss and end up winning because of the base they secure over Protoss in the midgame
-alternative style is massive damage style, where you get more Barracks and commit to dealing critical damage before the lategame
-being even on basecount with Protoss and not dealing critical damage can spell a loss in the lategame
-Terran lategame army is NOT inferior to Protoss lategame army
I didn't watch the first part, so I can't talk about that, but these are interesting ideas about the nature of TvP. Would any Terran players like to offer feedback? I know that I can't speak for you guys.
That's the basic idea that players should be doing in general, not just in TvP. It's just really apparent in TvP because you HAVE to do that.
Pressuring while macroing and teching ahead of your opponent is the best way to play any matchup imo. That's like the biggest fundamental strategy of starcraft.
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On May 15 2012 05:03 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 04:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Playing Terran is so frustrating ATM. We have no T3 units so all we have is the mid game to do massive damage but any good Zerg or Protoss already knows those timings and doesn't get really greedy/ builds units in time to defend them. Then you just slowly lose the game as Zerg takes the map and Protoss gets their deathball. Yeah you can try to out multitask them and drop in mutliple locations but any good zerg wil have overlords spread to see it/ spines at every expansion. And then dropping vs protoss is useless since they can just warp in/ build cannons to defend. TvT is the only fun matchup to play atm.
And the mid game advantage thing in TvP is honestly bullshit. Yeah you can get fast medivacs/stim/combat shields but Protoss can aleady have 2 Collosus with range/ a bunch of other units by then. Then the only way to engage is getting a ton of vikings but by that point the mid game advantage is gone and you just slowly lose unless protoss engages really poorly.
Also I can't understand why Blizzard nerfed the Ghost so hard, its not like it was easy to just destroy brood lords as your own tanks would splash on them etc not to mention the micro to use them properly against Zerg is really APM taxing. And then they nerfed EMP which was dumb, and now we cant even go reactored hellion vs zerg since the queen buff. All they have to do is make 4 queens and you need like 10 hellions to be able to keep them back.
Its like Blizzard just wants Terran players to just play turtle mech and a move/ seige their way to victory even though that never works vs good players. He doesn't have colossus by 10 minutes, lol. Unless hes going ultra fast colossus, in which case he'll have NO upgrades whatsoever. Besides, the point isn't to engage. It's to punish mistakes, but otherwise prevent him from expanding while securing your own. You aren't supposed to stim into his natural and (try to) kill him. (lol)
Which is why I said you need a ton of vikings to engage any form of collosus because they will shred your bio. The point is that if Protoss gets early Collosus you cannot pressure them, meaning they can just go and expand. Which means the mid game advantage is gone. And even if you get ahead on upgrades they can just chrono them to catch up.
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On May 15 2012 05:22 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:03 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 15 2012 04:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Playing Terran is so frustrating ATM. We have no T3 units so all we have is the mid game to do massive damage but any good Zerg or Protoss already knows those timings and doesn't get really greedy/ builds units in time to defend them. Then you just slowly lose the game as Zerg takes the map and Protoss gets their deathball. Yeah you can try to out multitask them and drop in mutliple locations but any good zerg wil have overlords spread to see it/ spines at every expansion. And then dropping vs protoss is useless since they can just warp in/ build cannons to defend. TvT is the only fun matchup to play atm.
And the mid game advantage thing in TvP is honestly bullshit. Yeah you can get fast medivacs/stim/combat shields but Protoss can aleady have 2 Collosus with range/ a bunch of other units by then. Then the only way to engage is getting a ton of vikings but by that point the mid game advantage is gone and you just slowly lose unless protoss engages really poorly.
Also I can't understand why Blizzard nerfed the Ghost so hard, its not like it was easy to just destroy brood lords as your own tanks would splash on them etc not to mention the micro to use them properly against Zerg is really APM taxing. And then they nerfed EMP which was dumb, and now we cant even go reactored hellion vs zerg since the queen buff. All they have to do is make 4 queens and you need like 10 hellions to be able to keep them back.
Its like Blizzard just wants Terran players to just play turtle mech and a move/ seige their way to victory even though that never works vs good players. He doesn't have colossus by 10 minutes, lol. Unless hes going ultra fast colossus, in which case he'll have NO upgrades whatsoever. Besides, the point isn't to engage. It's to punish mistakes, but otherwise prevent him from expanding while securing your own. You aren't supposed to stim into his natural and (try to) kill him. (lol) Which is why I said you need a ton of vikings to engage any form of collosus because they will shred your bio. The point is that if Protoss gets early Collosus you cannot pressure them, meaning they can just go and expand. Which means the mid game advantage is gone. And even if you get ahead on upgrades they can just chrono them to catch up.
No, they can't really expand. You can just walk into their third, stim and snipe it. And if they're positioned well to stop it, then fortunately you're also dropping in their main base and sniping upgrades/tech. All while you already have a third and are about to take a fourth. The whole point is that you AREN'T engaging his army. That his colossus can't be in two places at once, assuming he went quick robo into colossus after FE. Any unupgraded gateway units he warps in to stop your drop will be "shredded" by stimmed bio with medivac support. Besides, almost no one goes colossus *THAT* fast anymore in high level PvT. (keep in mind, this is ALL in regard to the ~9-10:00 colossus timing i.e. very fast colossus)
SC2 isn't all about one ball attacking into another ball, lol.
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On May 15 2012 05:26 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:22 Solo Terran wrote:On May 15 2012 05:03 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 15 2012 04:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Playing Terran is so frustrating ATM. We have no T3 units so all we have is the mid game to do massive damage but any good Zerg or Protoss already knows those timings and doesn't get really greedy/ builds units in time to defend them. Then you just slowly lose the game as Zerg takes the map and Protoss gets their deathball. Yeah you can try to out multitask them and drop in mutliple locations but any good zerg wil have overlords spread to see it/ spines at every expansion. And then dropping vs protoss is useless since they can just warp in/ build cannons to defend. TvT is the only fun matchup to play atm.
And the mid game advantage thing in TvP is honestly bullshit. Yeah you can get fast medivacs/stim/combat shields but Protoss can aleady have 2 Collosus with range/ a bunch of other units by then. Then the only way to engage is getting a ton of vikings but by that point the mid game advantage is gone and you just slowly lose unless protoss engages really poorly.
Also I can't understand why Blizzard nerfed the Ghost so hard, its not like it was easy to just destroy brood lords as your own tanks would splash on them etc not to mention the micro to use them properly against Zerg is really APM taxing. And then they nerfed EMP which was dumb, and now we cant even go reactored hellion vs zerg since the queen buff. All they have to do is make 4 queens and you need like 10 hellions to be able to keep them back.
Its like Blizzard just wants Terran players to just play turtle mech and a move/ seige their way to victory even though that never works vs good players. He doesn't have colossus by 10 minutes, lol. Unless hes going ultra fast colossus, in which case he'll have NO upgrades whatsoever. Besides, the point isn't to engage. It's to punish mistakes, but otherwise prevent him from expanding while securing your own. You aren't supposed to stim into his natural and (try to) kill him. (lol) Which is why I said you need a ton of vikings to engage any form of collosus because they will shred your bio. The point is that if Protoss gets early Collosus you cannot pressure them, meaning they can just go and expand. Which means the mid game advantage is gone. And even if you get ahead on upgrades they can just chrono them to catch up. No, they can't really expand. You can just walk into their third, stim and snipe it. And if they're positioned well to stop it, then fortunately you're also dropping in their main base and sniping upgrades/tech. All while you already have a third and are about to take a fourth. The whole point is that you AREN'T engaging his army. That his colossus can't be in two places at once, assuming he went quick robo into colossus after FE. Any unupgraded gateway units he warps in to stop your drop will be "shredded" by stimmed bio with medivac support. Besides, almost no one goes colossus *THAT* fast anymore in high level PvT. (keep in mind, this is ALL in regard to the 9:30 colossus timing i.e. very fast colossus) SC2 isn't all about one ball attacking into another ball, lol. This is all getting really situational but good protosses generally leave stalkers in their main and on maps like entombed they can defend their third with Collosus on the high ground so you can't just stim in and snipe it.
But anyways I guess my point overall is that Terran has to do early/ mid game damage versus Zerg/ Protoss which means you have to be constanly attacking and macroing off of several production facilities/ expanding all while Zerg and protoss can just sit back and defend their expansions which is much easier than having to constantly attack and macro at the same time. Not to mention that engaging as Terran takes the most APM as well with splitting/ kiting / sniping / emping / seiging at the proper times.
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On May 15 2012 05:42 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:26 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 15 2012 05:22 Solo Terran wrote:On May 15 2012 05:03 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 15 2012 04:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Playing Terran is so frustrating ATM. We have no T3 units so all we have is the mid game to do massive damage but any good Zerg or Protoss already knows those timings and doesn't get really greedy/ builds units in time to defend them. Then you just slowly lose the game as Zerg takes the map and Protoss gets their deathball. Yeah you can try to out multitask them and drop in mutliple locations but any good zerg wil have overlords spread to see it/ spines at every expansion. And then dropping vs protoss is useless since they can just warp in/ build cannons to defend. TvT is the only fun matchup to play atm.
And the mid game advantage thing in TvP is honestly bullshit. Yeah you can get fast medivacs/stim/combat shields but Protoss can aleady have 2 Collosus with range/ a bunch of other units by then. Then the only way to engage is getting a ton of vikings but by that point the mid game advantage is gone and you just slowly lose unless protoss engages really poorly.
Also I can't understand why Blizzard nerfed the Ghost so hard, its not like it was easy to just destroy brood lords as your own tanks would splash on them etc not to mention the micro to use them properly against Zerg is really APM taxing. And then they nerfed EMP which was dumb, and now we cant even go reactored hellion vs zerg since the queen buff. All they have to do is make 4 queens and you need like 10 hellions to be able to keep them back.
Its like Blizzard just wants Terran players to just play turtle mech and a move/ seige their way to victory even though that never works vs good players. He doesn't have colossus by 10 minutes, lol. Unless hes going ultra fast colossus, in which case he'll have NO upgrades whatsoever. Besides, the point isn't to engage. It's to punish mistakes, but otherwise prevent him from expanding while securing your own. You aren't supposed to stim into his natural and (try to) kill him. (lol) Which is why I said you need a ton of vikings to engage any form of collosus because they will shred your bio. The point is that if Protoss gets early Collosus you cannot pressure them, meaning they can just go and expand. Which means the mid game advantage is gone. And even if you get ahead on upgrades they can just chrono them to catch up. No, they can't really expand. You can just walk into their third, stim and snipe it. And if they're positioned well to stop it, then fortunately you're also dropping in their main base and sniping upgrades/tech. All while you already have a third and are about to take a fourth. The whole point is that you AREN'T engaging his army. That his colossus can't be in two places at once, assuming he went quick robo into colossus after FE. Any unupgraded gateway units he warps in to stop your drop will be "shredded" by stimmed bio with medivac support. Besides, almost no one goes colossus *THAT* fast anymore in high level PvT. (keep in mind, this is ALL in regard to the 9:30 colossus timing i.e. very fast colossus) SC2 isn't all about one ball attacking into another ball, lol. This is all getting really situational but good protosses generally leave stalkers in their main and on maps like entombed they can defend their third with Collosus on the high ground so you can't just stim in and snipe it. But anyways I guess my point overall is that Terran has to do early/ mid game damage versus Zerg/ Protoss which means you have to be constanly attacking and macroing off of several production facilities/ expanding all while Zerg and protoss can just sit back and defend their expansions which is much easier than having to constantly attack and macro at the same time. Not to mention that engaging as Terran takes the most APM as well with splitting/ kiting / sniping / emping / seiging at the proper times.
Difficulty isn't indicative of imbalance though.
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Well, they just closed the PvT lategame thread as I was responding.
Someone on there had a barely coherent, rambling, poorly written post that had one awesome point. Terran don't/can't use T3 units against the lategame Protoss army because of feedback. Templars counter Medivacs, Bio, Thors, AND BCs thru storms and Feedback. His simple solution was to allow a player to drain or stop their energy regeneration on these units.
This is a meaningful ability usage that forces a Terran to use 250mm and Yamato (which at this point, I had totally forgotten were even in this game since they're never used) and be at risk of Feedback, or to deplete the energy of his T3 units but be immune to Feedback. This will help BCs and Thors to actually be useful lategame against Colossi, Zealots, etc. If it forces Protoss to rely more on Void Rays late game and less on warping in 40 food of Zealots at a time, good. Doesn't it improve the meta dramatically?
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On May 23 2012 02:11 Crownlol wrote:
Well, they just closed the PvT lategame thread as I was responding.
Someone on there had a barely coherent, rambling, poorly written post that had one awesome point. Terran don't/can't use T3 units against the lategame Protoss army because of feedback. Templars counter Medivacs, Bio, Thors, AND BCs thru storms and Feedback. His simple solution was to allow a player to drain or stop their energy regeneration on these units...
The same ability that drains the energy from High Templars. Idra said a -long- time ago that mech/ghost was very strong. The ghost is the critical component there. It just requires some pre-planning.
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A question just donned upon me the other day. Zerg is the only race that doesn't have a spell like feedback/EMP. I'm not sure that Zerg needs one, but it might be an interesting change. What do you all think?
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On May 24 2012 00:24 Zorkmid wrote:
A question just donned upon me the other day. Zerg is the only race that doesn't have a spell like feedback/EMP. I'm not sure that Zerg needs one, but it might be an interesting change. What do you all think?
Zerg does not need one.
Fungal is the most dangerous/powerful spell out of the three: EMP, Storm, Fungal.
What Zerg does need is a siege unit that comes out around the same time as tank/collosi...something Blizzard is addressing in Heart of the Swarm.
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They do have neural parasite actually, but ya, it's just slightly less important for the zerg to get coup kills against casters for some reason. The only time it comes up is when you need to shut down a mothership. Neural isn't great at doing it, but if it works the payoff is often game winning.
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On May 24 2012 07:47 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 00:24 Zorkmid wrote:
A question just donned upon me the other day. Zerg is the only race that doesn't have a spell like feedback/EMP. I'm not sure that Zerg needs one, but it might be an interesting change. What do you all think? Zerg does not need one. Fungal is the most dangerous/powerful spell out of the three: EMP, Storm, Fungal. What Zerg does need is a siege unit that comes out around the same time as tank/collosi...something Blizzard is addressing in Heart of the Swarm.
This. Former BW Zerg players are very aware that the biggest gap in the SC2 Zerg arsenal is a unit like the lurker.
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Hey guys, MECH TvP, check out Byun's stream right now, he is getting it to work semi consistently against GM korean tosses. Of course you need godly micro while the toss kinda just clicks all over your stuff.
But the idea is mass tanks+hellions with upgrades, then cloaked banshees, with ghosts for emp + observer snipe
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Oh god the last thing zerg needs is a space controlling unit. I mean, in theory every race should have space controlling units, but in sc2 zerg is just so exponential, mobile, and downright powerful in the lategame. The last thing they need is a seige tank replica supported by broodlords...
And the swarm host isnt really a siege unit... its a position breaker. A fodder generator. That is decent, but a lurker replica, combined with broodlords, burrowed banelings, spine wall, infestors. No race would ever beat a zerg past the midgame...
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Honestly, I think the game is fairly well balanced. We could fine tune it, but honestly, it's all going to change for Heart of the Swarm, and I'd rather see big changes like that then small changes which imo are just dealing with fringe cases. (Honestly, I don't think Feedback is an issue).
That said a couple of balance suggestions (as a Toss, though for all races):
TERRAN CHANGES
- Behemoth Reactor (Battlecruser Upgrade)
Battlecruisers start at 125 Energy (+75 Energy).
Battlecruisers useless now? Taking the time to build this unit AND waiting to get enough energy to Yamato is ridiculous. With this change, the Battlecruiser can instantly kill a Colossus (well, if it's taken at least 50 health or two shots from the BC), once it spawns. Feedback is less of an issue (though still balances this out) because there is less "sitting on Energy waiting to use the ability", since they can use it from the get go. Change the cost/build time accordingly.
- "Thorhemoth Reactor" (New Thor Upgrade)
Same as Behemoth Reactor (begins with enough energy to cast Strike Cannons).
THERE. Terran late game.
PROTOSS CHANGES
- Hallucination (Sentry upgrade)
The upgrade gives the ability to the Cybernetics Core, rather than to Sentries. Can now also Hallucinate Sentries. Increase the cost accordingly.
Doesn't really change balance, but I'd like to see the ability be more useful. Leaving it on the Core, means that it doesn't compete for Guardian Shield and Forcefields. Cybercore doesn't get much use outside of the Skytoss (which isn't really played too much... yet), so this would give it a bit more utility. (Also I would totally mineral sink into Cybercores to mass Hallucinate for fun).
-Graviton Beam (Phoenix Ability)
Costs change. Cost 25 Energy to Cast (lasts 5 seconds) and 5 Energy per second to maintain afterwards. Can be manually canceled or auto-cancels once units dies.
Just allows you to be more energy efficient with your Graviton beams for weak/light units (where you don't need the full ten seconds) or if you just have enough units to kill it quickly. I really like Phoenixes and would love to see their role as a support unit be improved (similar to that of a Sentry allowing you to pick apart unit formations).
ZERG CHANGES
Juggernaut - (New Ultralisk passive ability)
Allows Ultralisk to walk up and down cliffs.
Chokes? What chokes? Ultras now allow the Zerg to ignore chokes and ramps without resorting to air. I think this change would make Ultras very useful in the late game, though balanced due to the variety of efficient counters.
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^Terrible suggestions.
On May 24 2012 11:43 vorxaw wrote:
Hey guys, MECH TvP, check out Byun's stream right now, he is getting it to work semi consistently against GM korean tosses. Of course you need godly micro while the toss kinda just clicks all over your stuff.
But the idea is mass tanks+hellions with upgrades, then cloaked banshees, with ghosts for emp + observer snipe
A Mecher should never be relying on Mass tanks in TvP. I'm surprised players don't know this yet.
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On May 15 2012 05:42 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:26 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 15 2012 05:22 Solo Terran wrote:On May 15 2012 05:03 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 15 2012 04:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Playing Terran is so frustrating ATM. We have no T3 units so all we have is the mid game to do massive damage but any good Zerg or Protoss already knows those timings and doesn't get really greedy/ builds units in time to defend them. Then you just slowly lose the game as Zerg takes the map and Protoss gets their deathball. Yeah you can try to out multitask them and drop in mutliple locations but any good zerg wil have overlords spread to see it/ spines at every expansion. And then dropping vs protoss is useless since they can just warp in/ build cannons to defend. TvT is the only fun matchup to play atm.
And the mid game advantage thing in TvP is honestly bullshit. Yeah you can get fast medivacs/stim/combat shields but Protoss can aleady have 2 Collosus with range/ a bunch of other units by then. Then the only way to engage is getting a ton of vikings but by that point the mid game advantage is gone and you just slowly lose unless protoss engages really poorly.
Also I can't understand why Blizzard nerfed the Ghost so hard, its not like it was easy to just destroy brood lords as your own tanks would splash on them etc not to mention the micro to use them properly against Zerg is really APM taxing. And then they nerfed EMP which was dumb, and now we cant even go reactored hellion vs zerg since the queen buff. All they have to do is make 4 queens and you need like 10 hellions to be able to keep them back.
Its like Blizzard just wants Terran players to just play turtle mech and a move/ seige their way to victory even though that never works vs good players. He doesn't have colossus by 10 minutes, lol. Unless hes going ultra fast colossus, in which case he'll have NO upgrades whatsoever. Besides, the point isn't to engage. It's to punish mistakes, but otherwise prevent him from expanding while securing your own. You aren't supposed to stim into his natural and (try to) kill him. (lol) Which is why I said you need a ton of vikings to engage any form of collosus because they will shred your bio. The point is that if Protoss gets early Collosus you cannot pressure them, meaning they can just go and expand. Which means the mid game advantage is gone. And even if you get ahead on upgrades they can just chrono them to catch up. No, they can't really expand. You can just walk into their third, stim and snipe it. And if they're positioned well to stop it, then fortunately you're also dropping in their main base and sniping upgrades/tech. All while you already have a third and are about to take a fourth. The whole point is that you AREN'T engaging his army. That his colossus can't be in two places at once, assuming he went quick robo into colossus after FE. Any unupgraded gateway units he warps in to stop your drop will be "shredded" by stimmed bio with medivac support. Besides, almost no one goes colossus *THAT* fast anymore in high level PvT. (keep in mind, this is ALL in regard to the 9:30 colossus timing i.e. very fast colossus) SC2 isn't all about one ball attacking into another ball, lol. This is all getting really situational but good protosses generally leave stalkers in their main and on maps like entombed they can defend their third with Collosus on the high ground so you can't just stim in and snipe it. But anyways I guess my point overall is that Terran has to do early/ mid game damage versus Zerg/ Protoss which means you have to be constanly attacking and macroing off of several production facilities/ expanding all while Zerg and protoss can just sit back and defend their expansions which is much easier than having to constantly attack and macro at the same time. Not to mention that engaging as Terran takes the most APM as well with splitting/ kiting / sniping / emping / seiging at the proper times.
yeah.. terran is the aggressive race. if you're an aggressive player, WHY did you pick terran? if you want the playstyle of "defend until i get my deathball" then you should pick zerg or protoss. this is a dynamic game, and all of the races dont HAVE to be the same.
coming from a high masters protoss player, with a terran offrace that is mid masters, if terran was buffed/ protoss was nerfed in any way right now the matchup would be back to 60%+ w/r for terrans at the highest level. the best terran players I face will just macro well and get to a split map situation which is incredibily easy with defensive planetaries, at that point they mass orbital and get a massive army off of their now mules+35 scvs with 3/3 ghosts/vikings/MM and I will lose the battle no matter what composition I throw at them. if you can't do that, and you can't be aggressive either mid-game, then pick a different race. you low level terrans are not "entitled" to terran and it being easy for you.
i'de have thought that another GSL win for terran would calm the complaining, but nope. i guess it takes a certain type of person (ie the type that picked terran in the beta) to still complain about his race even when it's the best race at the highest level currently.
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On May 24 2012 13:31 Quasi.In.Rem wrote:
Honestly, I think the game is fairly well balanced. We could fine tune it, but honestly, it's all going to change for Heart of the Swarm, and I'd rather see big changes like that then small changes which imo are just dealing with fringe cases. (Honestly, I don't think Feedback is an issue).
That said a couple of balance suggestions (as a Toss, though for all races):
TERRAN CHANGES
.... [horrific ideas]....
You realize, that you a) didn't solve the problem and b) still noone will research the reactor upgrades. You apparently have never seen how feedback interacts with strike cannon and yamato cannon. Let me educate you:
The BC/thor lock in on a target. The chargeup sequence begins (channeling for the BC, Thor deploys his strike cannon). After the 2 seconds chargeup sequence, the energy is deducted and the damage is dealt.
What happens in TvP is that while the BC/thor does nothing but preparing for the spell, feedback hits for full dmg and the spell is canceled. So not only do you take full damage, but you also lose the DPS from the time the unit spends in wind-up.
You seem to imagine that in a battle the BC has 120 energy and just before it can use yamato a HT comes with feedback. This is usually not true. Normally BCs have 200 energy because they haven't had an opportunity to use yamato or because the weapon refit has not been researched. Then they get 200 spell damage (for 50 energy) before they have any chance to deplete their energy.
So your suggestions for terran solve nothing.But nice buffs for protoss and I have no clue what you smoked for your ultra suggestion...
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On May 24 2012 11:49 Sajaki wrote:
Oh god the last thing zerg needs is a space controlling unit. I mean, in theory every race should have space controlling units, but in sc2 zerg is just so exponential, mobile, and downright powerful in the lategame. The last thing they need is a seige tank replica supported by broodlords...
And the swarm host isnt really a siege unit... its a position breaker. A fodder generator. That is decent, but a lurker replica, combined with broodlords, burrowed banelings, spine wall, infestors. No race would ever beat a zerg past the midgame...
Obviously, we Zerg would need to give up other things in order to get lurkers and stay balanced.
Spawn Larvae would be a prime candidate, as this is one of the most lopsided aspects of SC2 Zerg: it makes Zerg too exponential, forcing Zerg units to be awful/cost-inefficient to prevent horrific imbalance. Nerf Spawn Larvae, and give back lurkers/decently cost-effective units, and Zerg will resemble a reasonably designed race instead of the race that invites timing attacks or otherwise wins the late game.
Patches like faster overlord scouting miss the real issue with Zerg: it's way too strong late game and way too fragile early game. If Zerg wasn't so lopsided, then we wouldn't need better scouting to stop all-ins; we could reasonably defend all-ins by playing safe, but we wouldn't get to automatically run over the opposition a few minutes later with an exponential economy.
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On May 24 2012 13:31 Quasi.In.Rem wrote:
Honestly, I think the game is fairly well balanced. We could fine tune it, but honestly, it's all going to change for Heart of the Swarm, and I'd rather see big changes like that then small changes which imo are just dealing with fringe cases. (Honestly, I don't think Feedback is an issue).
That said a couple of balance suggestions (as a Toss, though for all races):
...BLAH BLAH BLAH...
I hope you're trolling. All your ideas are just plain awful. I mean, really...
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EPT
