"a significant part of the players' (tester, FD) testimonies were false"
"their statements were inconsistent with the truth regarding missed salary payments + copyright issues regarding use of their image"
"TSL does not want any punishment given to FD and tester, and thus their wish will be respected, and it is expected from these two players that they act in a more moral way in the future"
"the claim that coach lee visited the team house about twice a month was exaggerated"
"we had agreed beforehand that tester, as the team captain, would shoulder some responsibilities of coach"
"we recognise that coach lee was indeed busy with the running of his pc bang and associated tournaments and other schedules"
"after checking with the sponsor regarding their payments to TSL, we recognise that our first salaries were paid on the correct date"
"although initially we were told different things by the sponsor and by coach lee, we now know that coach lee was not lying"
"there were also no problems regarding salary payments prior to the pair leaving TSL"
"it is because of my rash decision that there was harm done to coach lee"
"in their last month at TSL, tester and FD only showed up on less than 10 days, and they hold themselves accountable for their team atmosphere harming activities and refusal to participate in official TSL events/schedules"
"regarding image usage rights, coach lee first said that he would pay for the use of FD and tester's photos (this was right after FD and tester left)"
"but later, after finding out these details, we have agreed not to give/accept any payment"
"we apologise for only thinking about our team's rights, and not thinking from coach lee's perspective and the potential relationship between our team and TSL"
"in conclusion, much of the details used in the original arbitration by the SC2 Committee was falsified"
"exaggerations by FD and tester were due to their lack of information on the situation"
"there was a lot of emotional decision making on our part, which we regret"
"as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee"
"in the future i will make sure that i take in all the information and make sure of its truth before making decisions"
"i apologise for the harm this has caused to all the players and teams in the sc2 committee"
"i realise it is difficult to take back words after they have been said"
"i apologise with my head bowed to TSL, coach lee, the players and their fans for acting in this manner"
"i hope this situation can eventually be another stepping stone, and not a harming influence, for the growth of sc2"
"i am glad that this situation has been resolved and the truth has been cleared up"
glad to see the truth revealed, and TSL and coach lee exonerated.
Good for TSL! I did feel sorry for Coach Lee in the situation, given that if his side of the story was correct (which it seems to have been), then he was put in a very unfair position by Fruitdealer and Trickster.
It's weird because I used to be such a FD/Trickster fan but after all this controversy i'm not so sure anymore
This story just gets better and better. I really feel for Coach Lee getting caught up in two big controversies while simultaneously with losing several of his best players.
I'm glad to see that the committee took the time to analyze the situation and rectify their mistake, but what a shame they didn't do that before banning TSL in the first place.
yeah, in your face for those people who keep calling coach lee a douchebag, i knew there's something wrong about this when he said "there is so many lies in the player's testimonies" and decided to pull out of sc2con instead of paying the fine
Wait...what? FD and Tester make claims about not getting paid from TSL which turn out to be false even though they said that is the reason why they jumped ship to StarTale? Then TSL says it's all fine even though they have been essentially defamed and lost 2 of their better players...there has to be more to it. The whole scenario is pretty strange imo.
On August 09 2011 22:11 Netsky wrote:Then TSL says it's all fine even though they have been essentially defamed and lost 2 of their better players...there has to be more it.
no, ending the controversy now would be the best course of action for everyone involved rather than start another battle over TSL trying to gain compensation or whatever.
koreans can start fights easily, but they also end them easily. litigation still isn't a very common way to solve these kinds of problems in korea.
On August 09 2011 22:13 zeru wrote: I knew it, defending coach Lee all this time was hard to do with so much hate towards him. Especially with people like rekrul hating on Lee and defending the ex TSL players.
i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
now its total confusion and nobody knows what happened except the involved persons. don't know what to think of the whole situation with TSL / FD+Tester / SC2 Association.
On August 09 2011 22:17 TehForce wrote: now its total confusion and nobody knows what happened except the involved persons. don't know what to think of the whole situation with TSL / FD+Tester / SC2 Association.
what's so confusing?
coach lee paid tester and fd and clide, like he said. this has been proven correct.
coach lee said tester and fd were shirking their duties to the team. this is also correct.
On August 09 2011 22:11 Netsky wrote:Then TSL says it's all fine even though they have been essentially defamed and lost 2 of their better players...there has to be more it.
no, ending the controversy now would be the best course of action for everyone involved rather than start another battle over TSL trying to gain compensation or whatever.
koreans can start fights easily, but they also end them easily. litigation still isn't a very common way to solve these kinds of problems in korea.
My apologies if I made it sound like TSL should take any sort of legal action. Just pointing out it's a bit sus. Totally agree it would be best for everyone if we just moved on, although it would be nice if FD and Tester made a statement in light of these recent events.
On August 09 2011 22:15 bonifaceviii wrote: No hate, just saying. Damage's been done.
what damage? from tester and fd leaving? nothing that can't be fixed with newer, better players...
i think he refers to the image damage coach lee and TSL got. no sponsor wants to give money to a controversial team.
they haven't lost any of their existing sponsors, who (unlike ST's coach) probably decided to wait until the truth came out.
this will actually probably make FD/tester/coach won less popular than it will make TSL less popular. TSL will probably get lots of sympathy for this whole situation...
TSL has been in the news for a lot of ad things of late. I hope TSL can put all this behind and focus on the game now as it seems that things have been cleared.
This is just retarded. It keeps going back and forth with all these freaking stories lol. I give up giving my opinion on this. Next week we will hear how Coach Lee faked his bank records lol
On August 09 2011 22:20 Alexl wrote: EG recruits puma : Coach Lee Fan 4 lyfe !! !! !! TSL off sc2con: Omg fuk coach lee, bad man liaaar !! !! TSL back in sc2con: Coach Lee 4 lyfe !!
what a joke.
It's just because people tend to jump on the bandwagon too easily, i myself were with TSL from the start
And this is why we shouldn't jump to conclusions and condemn people so easily (see comments in the thread about their expulsion / withdrawal from SC2Con). In a disagreement like this everyone is going to be biased towards their own interests, on top of which we had little information, much of which was contradictory. I hope those of you that were hating on Coach Lee and trashing him realize now that you took it too far.
While this is probably still not "the whole truth," it's good to see that things have more or less been settled. It's also probably good that the ST coach is stepping down as chair of SC2Con -- like it was mentioned in the other thread, he seems to fly off the handle a lot, and apparently that was partially the case here, too. At any rate, hopefully a cooler head will take over.
Lol funny how Tester & FD turn out to be liars. Things suddenly turn 180 degrees. It's obvious that Coach Won was biased toward his own players and misjuded the case with his power as the head of sc2con. Justice has been done
On August 09 2011 22:13 bonifaceviii wrote: TSL's been crippled already; might as well throw the team a bone of vindication before it dies for good.
bullshit. 3 players in Code S, staying on top of their GSTL group, backed by serious sponsors since beginning, get rid of proven liars and lazy asses, only lost a non-GSL player , and more importantly being coached by the muthafreakin Coach Lee. Team SCV Life is looking hot.
On August 09 2011 22:27 Yemack wrote: so you can accuse someone and then later say 'ooops sry ma bad' to make up?
noice~
There's pretty much nothing he can do. Paying TSL for the damage is not the properway to do since esport is still not a mature sport and drama that has money involved prob gonna makes the whole thing worse. Also in sc2 right now, they depends much more on trusts and relationship between the teams and coaches instead of money, so apologizing and resign is the best option he can possibliy choose
A never ending drama it seems... A shame, such things usually damage the reputation of everybody involved and leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Hopefully this was the last chapter in this sad story.
Man i got alot of shit about my posts saying that people make way to many assumptions. People saying coach Lee is evil, twofaced etc. It's never as onedimensional as that, but i guess there's alot of younger people on these forums with little to no work-related real life experience.
I wonder what Belial88 is thinking now. He was really filling the old TSL/EG Puma threads with i-told-you-so's about TSL being badly managed and coach Lee being horrible/evil. :D
"exaggerations by FD and tester were due to their lack of information on the situation"
Relevant. Still, completely assholish on their parts. Hope a proper translation is up by the time I wake up. Damn you, GSL, for making me pull an all-nighter. I will hopefully be coherent in the morning.
On August 09 2011 22:38 Mattchew wrote: Puma did nothing wrong TSL did nothing wrong Fruitdealer and Tester were in the wrong but I think misinformed Emotions got mixed with business
Like I said in the last thread. There is more to the story than we know. and guess what. There was more to the story. Now we have full information and it seems like Lee was being truthful and honest all along. I for one am glad I defended Lee. I knew he would come through.
Kinda funny how a ton of people went bashing on Coach Lee and how tey want to see TSL dissolve. When it was FD and Tester that were causing a lot of problems in TSL in the first place.
FD and Tester are really proving themselves to be huge scumbags. It's really sad how quickly the korean community jumped on coach lee. Even other coaches jumping in to stir shit up.
It just feels right, it's gonna be tought for TSL but i hope this experience will motivate their younger player and they will prove their value by winning games, because that's all you need to do in SC to be loved
On August 09 2011 23:24 Marou wrote: It just feels right, it's gonna be tought for TSL but i hope this experience will motivate their younger player and they will prove their value by winning games, because that's all you need to do in SC to be loved
On August 09 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote: Lol @ people jumping on the Coach Lee hate bandwagon.
Given the "facts" that were presented prior to this most recent development, I don't think it's surprising that several people were disappointed with what appeared to be shady management practices.
That being said, it is really unfortunate that TSL and Coach Lee have had to deal with all this drama and negative attention. Hopefully this new information makes it way through the community to clear their reputation!
All this roundabout drama just makes the SC2 committee seem amateurish and unprofessional but it's good to see that Coach Lee isn't the terrible manager he was being portrayed as.
On August 09 2011 23:50 shell wrote: OMG EG IS EVIL AGAIN??? NOOOOOOOO
On a more serious note seems like the SC2 news crew need to work a bit more instead of just posting shit that later is proven to be false..
Hope people forgive coach Lee, FD and tester and EG/puma since this got nothing to do with it but people will mix it together..
It's true that TSL was once expelled the SC2 committee. It's true that the ST coach made that long post saying what he thought actually happened. It's true that FD and Tester accused manager Lee of lying to them. The Koreans reacted similarly to the TL members to the news at first and now they're apologizing to Lee, while ST's coach is taking responsibility by stepping down from his SC2 committee president role. The "news crew" in this case were the ST coach, Tester, and FD.
FD and Tester going to Startale and Startale Coach being head of the SC2con, which kicked out TSL, made too much sense. Plus mamabear always seemed nice and had tons of experience from BW!
man it must feel good getting your name cleared. in retrospect it mustve been tough as the TSL coach with his name being out there the way it was and everyone hating on him. i really do hope TSL can rebuild now into a solid team, they were one of the pioneers of KR SC2.
On August 10 2011 00:35 HolydaKing wrote: not surprised at all.. knew it was coming.
FD and Tester going to Startale and Startale Coach being head of the SC2con, which kicked out TSL, made too much sense. Plus mamabear always seemed nice and had tons of experience from BW!
I was wrong about doubting mamabear, how did I ever do that.... I have sinned against eSports T.T
On August 10 2011 00:35 HolydaKing wrote: not surprised at all.. knew it was coming.
FD and Tester going to Startale and Startale Coach being head of the SC2con, which kicked out TSL, made too much sense. Plus mamabear always seemed nice and had tons of experience from BW!
I was wrong about doubting mamabear, how did I ever do that.... I have sinned against eSports T.T
I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
On August 10 2011 00:35 HolydaKing wrote: not surprised at all.. knew it was coming.
FD and Tester going to Startale and Startale Coach being head of the SC2con, which kicked out TSL, made too much sense. Plus mamabear always seemed nice and had tons of experience from BW!
I was wrong about doubting mamabear, how did I ever do that.... I have sinned against eSports T.T
On August 10 2011 00:53 Condor Hero wrote: I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
The smart thing that coach lee did was not saying anything. He didn't speak out to argue against it, which prob wouldn't work anyway, instead he finds evidence to prove his innocent. That;s why there were a lot of misinformation from sc2con, and yeah, people starts jumping on the coach lee hating bandwagon
On August 10 2011 00:53 Condor Hero wrote: I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
The smart thing that coach lee did was not saying anything. He didn't speak out to argue against it, which prob wouldn't work anyway, instead he finds evidence to prove his innocent. That;s why there were a lot of misinformation from sc2con, and yeah, people starts jumping on the coach lee hating bandwagon
StarTale coach seems like a total fucking tool as well. Why did he make such extreme statements based off the testimonies of two immature kids who obviously got a grudge vs Coach Lee? Now he apologizes and looks like an absolute moron.
-_____- this is dragging on way too long, and frankly i don't care anymore. Let FD/Tester/Coach Lee resolve their problems, without everyone looking in like its been published in US weekly.
I had a feeling that there was something suspicious going on when I first heard of the ban. The actions leading up to the ban were extremely inconsistent with coach lee's character. Glad to see that my suspicions were correct.
On August 10 2011 00:53 Condor Hero wrote: I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
The smart thing that coach lee did was not saying anything. He didn't speak out to argue against it, which prob wouldn't work anyway, instead he finds evidence to prove his innocent. That;s why there were a lot of misinformation from sc2con, and yeah, people starts jumping on the coach lee hating bandwagon
StarTale coach seems like a total fucking tool as well. Why did he make such extreme statements based off the testimonies of two immature kids who obviously got a grudge vs Coach Lee? Now he apologizes and looks like an absolute moron.
Like he said, his decision was influenced by emotion, as to him, FD and tester are friends/brothers to him, of course he's gonna be biased in his decision, personally i'm not gonna blame him for that, but i do blame him for making rash decision
Kind of sad that people fell for Tester and Cool's whine. When they're known for being lazy (bums who only play to get money for booze). Rather than listening to a respected, honest, workingman.
On August 10 2011 00:53 Condor Hero wrote: I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
The smart thing that coach lee did was not saying anything. He didn't speak out to argue against it, which prob wouldn't work anyway, instead he finds evidence to prove his innocent. That;s why there were a lot of misinformation from sc2con, and yeah, people starts jumping on the coach lee hating bandwagon
StarTale coach seems like a total fucking tool as well. Why did he make such extreme statements based off the testimonies of two immature kids who obviously got a grudge vs Coach Lee? Now he apologizes and looks like an absolute moron.
Like he said, his decision was influenced by emotion, as to him, FD and tester are friends/brothers to him, of course he's gonna be biased in his decision, personally i'm not gonna blame him for that, but i do blame him for making rash decision
You should precisely blame him in being biased by his decision. If he was a civilian then he can be as biased as he wants but he's head of Sc2con which is the association for SC2 in Korea. Hes got no right to be rash or biased.
As least he stepped down but all hes done is make Sc2con a laughingstock.
Glad, TSL has always been one of my favorite teams, even though they've lost half their best players I still reckon they deserve some support for all the crap they've gone through. Fighting
Once upon a time I have a lot of respect for FD and Tester: both were a beast in beta, and FD being a zerg that won the first GSL despite zerg being somewhat underpowered at that time.
Now their ethics and laziness, accusation of mamabear completely ruined their image.
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Yep.
Fair deal for sure.....
Let this be a lesson to everyone on TL (including Rekrul), don't be too quick to trust SC2con.
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Holy shit, where did you get the divorce and lost his job from????
On August 10 2011 00:53 Condor Hero wrote: I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
The smart thing that coach lee did was not saying anything. He didn't speak out to argue against it, which prob wouldn't work anyway, instead he finds evidence to prove his innocent. That;s why there were a lot of misinformation from sc2con, and yeah, people starts jumping on the coach lee hating bandwagon
StarTale coach seems like a total fucking tool as well. Why did he make such extreme statements based off the testimonies of two immature kids who obviously got a grudge vs Coach Lee? Now he apologizes and looks like an absolute moron.
You do realize that among the sc2 players Fruitdealer and Tester belong to the older generation?
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Holy shit, where did you get the divorce and lost his job from????
divorced from fd and ki soo and sacked from the Committee :D
On August 10 2011 00:53 Condor Hero wrote: I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
The smart thing that coach lee did was not saying anything. He didn't speak out to argue against it, which prob wouldn't work anyway, instead he finds evidence to prove his innocent. That;s why there were a lot of misinformation from sc2con, and yeah, people starts jumping on the coach lee hating bandwagon
StarTale coach seems like a total fucking tool as well. Why did he make such extreme statements based off the testimonies of two immature kids who obviously got a grudge vs Coach Lee? Now he apologizes and looks like an absolute moron.
You do realize that among the sc2 players Fruitdealer and Tester belong to the older generation?
I do, they are considered very old for progamers. Being older doesn't mean they are mature.
Does anyone else think FD and Tester are getting off easy for being total douches and lying?
Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
On August 10 2011 00:53 Condor Hero wrote: I love how all the nerds new to SC2 have no idea who Coach Lee is and were clueless to how much he put into BW/Esports were jumping to conclusions and now the news came out. WTF do people judge when only one party in an argument speaks out???
The smart thing that coach lee did was not saying anything. He didn't speak out to argue against it, which prob wouldn't work anyway, instead he finds evidence to prove his innocent. That;s why there were a lot of misinformation from sc2con, and yeah, people starts jumping on the coach lee hating bandwagon
StarTale coach seems like a total fucking tool as well. Why did he make such extreme statements based off the testimonies of two immature kids who obviously got a grudge vs Coach Lee? Now he apologizes and looks like an absolute moron.
You do realize that among the sc2 players Fruitdealer and Tester belong to the older generation?
That even makes their action worse, as elders players, they should conduct more professionally instead of turning up ten times in a whole month ruining the team's atmosphere, plus not lying
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Holy shit, where did you get the divorce and lost his job from????
divorced from fd and ki soo and sacked from the Committee :D
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Yep.
Fair deal for sure.....
Let this be a lesson to everyone on TL (including Rekrul), don't be too quick to trust SC2con.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Rekrul only ever alluded to Lee's obtaining FD and Tester from their former team. I don't recall anything about wages and such coming up there.
That being said I'm so confused and have no idea what's going on or what to believe rofl. So Lee wasn't actually withholding wages, and FD/Tester lied about that? That's pretty intense coming from those two. Especially after not participating in so much team stuff... talk about jumping off the razor's edge lol.
On August 10 2011 01:25 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: FD and Tester have been involved drama since the day they entered this scene. It's getting really old now.
Since the beta???? i don't remember anything special about them except them smashing faces left and right during the beta
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Yep.
Fair deal for sure.....
Let this be a lesson to everyone on TL (including Rekrul), don't be too quick to trust SC2con.
all rekrul said was that coach lee isnt a saint? but thats true of everyone
On August 10 2011 01:25 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: FD and Tester have been involved drama since the day they entered this scene. It's getting really old now.
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Yep.
Fair deal for sure.....
Let this be a lesson to everyone on TL (including Rekrul), don't be too quick to trust SC2con.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Rekrul only ever alluded to Lee's obtaining FD and Tester from their former team. I don't recall anything about wages and such coming up there.
That being said I'm so confused and have no idea what's going on or what to believe rofl. So Lee wasn't actually withholding wages, and FD/Tester lied about that? That's pretty intense coming from those two. Especially after not participating in so much team stuff... talk about jumping off the razor's edge lol.
No Rukrul was using that as further proof that Lee was scum, where it all turns out his boys are the ones with issues.
On August 10 2011 01:15 Shinobi1982 wrote: So Coach Lee got robbed, shot in the leg, accused of fraud, got divorced, lost his job and afterwards he got an apology for it?
Yep.
Fair deal for sure.....
Let this be a lesson to everyone on TL (including Rekrul), don't be too quick to trust SC2con.
I am pretty sure both sides are to blame for this mess.
From an old Coach Lee interview:
"First of all, I would like to apologize to FruitDealer and Tester for not fulfilling what I’ve promised to do. Despite our differences, I really hope that they do well in their respective teams." link
If every woman would start following the Esport scene,their thirst for gossip and drama would be satisfied to the point where mexican soap opera stars would soon be out of work.
On August 10 2011 02:10 Azzur wrote: FD and Tester leaving TSL was good for TSL. It is bad for a team to have 2 un-motivated players to demoralise the existing players.
Is TSL basically a fail team now? What do they have left?
Also, anyone think this drama will be a trend in the sc2 community as in EG and now TSL? I think it'd be a phenomenon worth studying if the drama spread.
On August 10 2011 02:28 Bippzy wrote: Is TSL basically a fail team now? What do they have left?
Also, anyone think this drama will be a trend in the sc2 community as in EG and now TSL? I think it'd be a phenomenon worth studying if the drama spread.
I shall refer you to an earlier quote.
On August 09 2011 22:25 Arceus wrote: Lol funny how Tester & FD turn out to be liars. Things suddenly turn 180 degrees. It's obvious that Coach Won was biased toward his own players and misjuded the case with his power as the head of sc2con. Justice has been done
On August 09 2011 22:13 bonifaceviii wrote: TSL's been crippled already; might as well throw the team a bone of vindication before it dies for good.
bullshit. 3 players in Code S, staying on top of their GSTL group, backed by serious sponsors since beginning, get rid of proven liars and lazy asses, only lost a non-GSL player , and more importantly being coached by the muthafreakin Coach Lee. Team SCV Life is looking hot.
"a significant part of the players' (tester, FD) testimonies were false"
"their statements were inconsistent with the truth regarding missed salary payments + copyright issues regarding use of their image"
Hahahahaha, as always the TL hate bandwagon owes someone an apology, not like they will apologize.
I knew there was something more to all the affair, all the stuff that they said that Coach lee had done was a criminal offense now ay the sponsors would let him get away with that.
Edit: And please guys, I know many of you love jumping into the hate bandwagon but this is no reason to now suddenly hate Tester and FD, they both are very talented players and by the way the confederation acted it seems they apologized or came cleam by themeselves
I was really surprised to hear about the accusations regarding Coach Lee, especially after getting the impression that he was one of the nicest and best coaches in the StarCraft scene in Korea. Glad to know that this has been (kind of) cleared up now.
It is incredibly frustrating to discover players you are a fan of have behaved in such a deceitful manner. I have tremendous difficultly reconciling my disapproval of this situation, with my general hatred of dramacraft.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Well, I still have no idea what actually happened. To many conflicting points of view. The important thing is that TSL and SC2Con are back together (sound like a cheap romance novel...). And that all the animosity has cleared.
I agree, we still might not know the whole story, but I'd like to give some kudos to Coach Lee. If I lost all my best players, received a megaton of hate from every direction, and was kicked out of the SC2 association, I wouldn't stick around very long. Well done.
Can some Korean explain what is going on. As an American this looks super shady, but it might be socially acceptable face-saving. Any korean want to comment on this?
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Correct, it's based off a business model that is not the real world business model for SCII right now. The concept of SC2CON works only if all teams internationally join (lol), or all SCII tournaments are in Korea only (lol).
Oh also they really don't do much of anything. That too.....
On August 05 2011 05:31 MrCon wrote: There's 2 things : - if Lee really had period where he came to the house only twice a month, he's just a bad coach. - all the rest is too much speculation, because it wouldn't surprise me that tester and fd had the house spirit completely ruined. Those guys won nearly 5000$ a month (code S included), so seeing them afk all day when their non paid teammates are practicing non stop can really be a disaster. I can understand how things could have snowballed from this.
Apart from that (which is speculation already), nothing in this thread is factual (this post included), so posting definite judgments one way or another isn't very smart imo.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Hmmm, thanks for sharing your thoughts boss. I didn't know they were so forceful and devious in their ways. I had always thought of SC2Con as just a committee, created by the teams (+GOM?) to help each other, and the Korean SC2 scene. I assume your personal experience with them comes from your purchase of fOu? I can understand cultural differences (I'm a korean so I know there's a sizable gulf) causing difference of ideas & opinions, but I can't believe they would resort to blackmailing and strong-arming to get their way. I had thought that the lukewarm reception of SC2 in Korea would bring everyone already involved, closer together, but that's just me being idealistic I guess.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Correct, it's based off a business model that is not the real world business model for SCII right now. The concept of SC2CON works only if all teams internationally join (lol), or all SCII tournaments are in Korea only (lol).
Oh also they really don't do much of anything. That too.....
I just hope now that Coach Lee is back they do something to protect Korean teams from players "transfer/purchases". I have absolutely no problem with foreign teams buying out Korean players from their team as long as it done proper way. As in (in this case) "Korean way" as they want it to be. Anything else is dirty business in my book.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
well that's a pretty bold statement to make accusing the whole organization like that. Whether I like ST coach or not, he did come clean, though I think he's getting off lightly.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
i love how the people who supported EG had to turn to coach Lee's actions as a way to "prove" that EG did nothing wrong have to now eat their words once again.
Glad to hear this, from watching hyungjoon I really respect and love coach lee, he seems like the nicest of guys. Disappointed in FD especially, Trickster was just following his namesake
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Care to share some specifics?
I wouldnt make such a post without specifics. But I am not prepared to publicly announce them ... yet... Just gotta sort a few things out first. Then I'll come out with all the information needed.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Care to share some specifics?
I wouldnt make such a post without specifics. But I am not prepared to publicly announce them ... yet... Just gotta sort a few things out first. Then I'll come out with all the information needed.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Care to share some specifics?
I wouldnt make such a post without specifics. But I am not prepared to publicly announce them ... yet... Just gotta sort a few things out first. Then I'll come out with all the information needed.
But won't this make you big problems, as the FXO Korean division is a part of sc2con?
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Care to share some specifics?
I wouldnt make such a post without specifics. But I am not prepared to publicly announce them ... yet... Just gotta sort a few things out first. Then I'll come out with all the information needed.
There is so much absurdity in these threads with each side claiming absolute victory every time some development occurs. Maybe you should be a little more measured in your responses?
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
Wow, showing up for practice less than 10 days out of a month, thats pretty sad to hear if true. I wish I could get paid for a job I only have to work less than 10 days a month.. Meanwhile their teammates probably practicing every day for hours and not getting paid squat in comparison. Must really kill teammates morale to see a slacker stroll into work (practice) less than 10 days a month, probably have worse recent results than you, and still make tons more money than you. What selfish douchebags.
remember not to underestimate the damage a case like this does to tsl, as a team searching for a sponsor (i dont think they have a big one yet) and something like this is going to be huge in a sponsors decision whether to sponsor tsl or someone else. also, they seem to be losing all their good players o.0
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Care to share some specifics?
I wouldnt make such a post without specifics. But I am not prepared to publicly announce them ... yet... Just gotta sort a few things out first. Then I'll come out with all the information needed.
But won't this make you big problems, as the FXO Korean division is a part of sc2con?
I suppose if sc2con had any actual power it could be a problem. Exposing them further is the best way to ensure they never do get any real influence in Korean sc2
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
You clearly haven't seen the Elite Squad movies, the method is working quite ok for BOPE :D.
On August 10 2011 03:38 k!llua wrote: horribly unprofessional.
I think that pretty much sums up this whole thing. Everyone involved. Though I think it's pretty safe to say ST coach made himself the biggest idiot in the end. If you read last condemning statement by ST coach now, it's hard not to think 'WTF are you thinking?'
LOL at all the people jumping on hating coach lee after that last thread.
And all the ppl going "see EG wasnt in the wrong Coach lee is just a douche bag" like some how the two things were related at all. Aka using it as an excuse to shit on coach lee.
Shame on all of you for jumping to conclusions based off of a few players statements.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Care to share some specifics?
I wouldnt make such a post without specifics. But I am not prepared to publicly announce them ... yet... Just gotta sort a few things out first. Then I'll come out with all the information needed.
I'm getting more confused by each thread :/ Well atleast they can hopefully put this all behind them. Seemed to be quite a big leap to go from very respected and liked coach to the douche fd/tester claimed he was...
On August 10 2011 03:44 cheesemaster wrote: LOL at all the people jumping on hating coach lee after that last thread.
And all the ppl going "see EG wasnt in the wrong Coach lee is just a douche bag" like some how the two things were related at all. Aka using it as an excuse to shit on coach lee.
Shame on all of you for jumping to conclusions based off of a few players statements.
Whilst I don't know enough about the situation to comment on this thread (I'm reading it to help get informed) isn't your response to those people's response the same thing? Most of the people in the original EG announcement jumped on EG before EG even knew what had happened from what I understand, and before any signing had taken place.
Seems from what I can gather that recent events prove people on all sides of arguements should wait for details before siding with anyone.
This seems so forced/fishy. I just can't believe that FD/Tester would just take such drastic action like leaving their team/salary for made up shit. Feels like something shady is going on.
Coach Lee and Coach Won both take the high road to stem the tide of controversy; Coach Lee but not pressing on, and Coach Won by bowing out. I hope everyone involved can move forwards in a successful manner. I have much respect for both Coaches in this situation.
Why didn't TSL have all this hard evidence ready in regards to salary payment BEFORE the first hearing? Didn't they think it was serious enough to bring some evidence? So much tainted reputations could have been avoided, such a shame.
On August 10 2011 03:44 cheesemaster wrote: LOL at all the people jumping on hating coach lee after that last thread.
And all the ppl going "see EG wasnt in the wrong Coach lee is just a douche bag" like some how the two things were related at all. Aka using it as an excuse to shit on coach lee.
Shame on all of you for jumping to conclusions based off of a few players statements.
Whilst I don't know enough about the situation to comment on this thread (I'm reading it to help get informed) isn't your response to those people's response the same thing? Most of the people in the original EG announcement jumped on EG before EG even knew what had happened from what I understand, and before any signing had taken place.
Seems from what I can gather that recent events prove people on all sides of arguements should wait for details before siding with anyone.
I totally agree, i wasnt really saying EG was wrong neccesarily (maybe a little culturally inept)
But no one was going to take away that Coach lee was a saint from that last thread so i didnt bother saying the other side.
Trickster X Fruitdealer? or Fruitdealer X Trickster? which one is the seme? which one is the uke? moar details plz.
I think I'd like Trickster X Fruitdealer more Trickster is the dominant and Fruitdealer the submissive. Training together.... "Fruitdealer, let me show you the real way to PvZ..." kyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
On August 10 2011 03:44 cheesemaster wrote: LOL at all the people jumping on hating coach lee after that last thread.
And all the ppl going "see EG wasnt in the wrong Coach lee is just a douche bag" like some how the two things were related at all. Aka using it as an excuse to shit on coach lee.
Shame on all of you for jumping to conclusions based off of a few players statements.
Whilst I don't know enough about the situation to comment on this thread (I'm reading it to help get informed) isn't your response to those people's response the same thing? Most of the people in the original EG announcement jumped on EG before EG even knew what had happened from what I understand, and before any signing had taken place.
Seems from what I can gather that recent events prove people on all sides of arguements should wait for details before siding with anyone.
I totally agree, i wasnt really saying EG was wrong neccesarily (maybe a little culturally inept)
But no one was going to take away that Coach lee was a saint from that last thread so i didnt bother saying the other side.
Oh, then I simply misunderstood what you were saying originally, sorry.
On August 10 2011 03:52 ketomai wrote: This seems so forced/fishy. I just can't believe that FD/Tester would just take such drastic action like leaving their team/salary for made up shit. Feels like something shady is going on.
I think they made their decision to leave the team much more in advance. The moment they joined ST they presented their exaggerated story to coach Won of ST in hope to get something financially out of TSL. Coach Won wanted to help them and went to the SC2 committee with it. Just the way I saw it from the beginning.
And think about it, Cool has not done anything noteworthy after GSL open 1 and Tester is an average ro32/16 code S player. Now I know most of people will flame me for saying that but I believe for their potential, that is not enough "achievements" in SC2. So there must be a reason why they simply do not perform in tournaments up to their potential.
I don't like player bashing so I will keep further thoughts on the situation to myself.
Trickster X Fruitdealer? or Fruitdealer X Trickster? which one is the seme? which one is the uke? moar details plz.
I think I'd like Trickster X Fruitdealer more Trickster is the dominant and Fruitdealer the submissive. Training together.... "Fruitdealer, let me show you the real way to PvZ..." kyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
On August 10 2011 03:52 ketomai wrote: This seems so forced/fishy. I just can't believe that FD/Tester would just take such drastic action like leaving their team/salary for made up shit. Feels like something shady is going on.
I think they made their decision to leave the team much more in advance. The moment they joined ST they presented their exaggerated story to coach Won of ST in hope to get something financially out of TSL. Coach Won wanted to help them and went to the SC2 committee with it. Just the way I saw it from the beginning.
And think about it, Cool has not done anything noteworthy after GSL open 1 and Tester is an average ro32/16 code S player. Now I know most of people will flame me for saying that but I believe for their potential, that is not enough "achievements" in SC2. So there must be a reason why they simply do not perform in tournaments up to their potential.
I don't like player bashing so I will keep further thoughts on the situation to myself.
Coach won is the head of the commitee btw so he didnt have to go far with it, and from what ive heard the organization has one person at the head of it (coach won , but now hes resigned after this) Thats why its kind of shady, because he is their coach and the head of the commitee. Anyways here is what happened fromm what i understood, coach lee came back with financial records / evidence proving that some of fruitdealer/ tricksters claims were false, and they decided to come clean.
On August 10 2011 04:08 Diglett wrote: has tl always been filled with band-wagoning sheep? well these people just got trolled hard lol.
Lol yea, its pretty bad, especially if you go back and read that previous TL thread, the amount of undeserved hate coach lee gets is sickening. From the begining it states that the evidence is based off of FD , Tricksters statements and most ppl didnt even think twice about it, they just began shitting on coach lee =(
On August 10 2011 04:08 Diglett wrote: has tl always been filled with band-wagoning sheep? well these people just got trolled hard lol.
It's just full of sc2 nubs who don't know who Tester, Cool and coach Lee actually are as people.
I don't think 99.9% of the TL forum does :p. Even if you are a BW fan you can't just see the truth of the situation based on the personalities of the people involved. I doubt you could definitely know the truth as well.
Just leave it as people jump to conclusions too quickly :p.
On August 10 2011 04:08 Diglett wrote: has tl always been filled with band-wagoning sheep? well these people just got trolled hard lol.
It's just full of sc2 nubs who don't know who Tester, Cool and coach Lee actually are as people.
And bw nubs who actually believe they're better than everyone in the world. Oh, and they've all met Tester, Cool and coach Lee, and have bonded with them on a personal level. They're even on a first name basis.
B-dawg, you have forever ruined me. I'll never be able to look at FD or Trickster again. Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I hope things work out for FD after all this. I do enjoy watching him. (EDIT play! play! I enjoy watching him PLAY STARCRAFT 2 YOU GUYS)
You enjoy watching him eh LOL
Hes the submissive one
Well I can totally see Trickster being the dominant and Fruitdealer being the submissive just based on like You see trickster as a stronger player from the GSL results. Since it creates the window of dominance in terms of skill levels. Something like this
"Colossus are just so unfair." "It's ok, There are ways to ZvP, let me show you how...gently.."
But I really can't see Fruitdealer being dominant since he plays zerg, and doesn't have as good result as Trickster.
B-dawg, you have forever ruined me. I'll never be able to look at FD or Trickster again. Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I hope things work out for FD after all this. I do enjoy watching him. (EDIT play! play! I enjoy watching him PLAY STARCRAFT 2 YOU GUYS)
You enjoy watching him eh LOL
Hes the submissive one
Well I can totally see Trickster being the dominant and Fruitdealer being the submissive just based on like You see trickster as a stronger player from the GSL results. Since it creates the window of dominance in terms of skill levels. Something like this
"Colossus are just so unfair." "It's ok, There are ways to ZvP, let me show you how...gently.."
But I really can't see Fruitdealer being dominant since he plays zerg, and doesn't have as good result as Trickster.
Oh god, why am I even reading your posts. I'm like "blasterion probably posted something reasonable and funny here!"
and then I read it and then I'm like "OH GOD OH GOD WHY DID I THINK BLASTERION WOULD POST SOMETHING REASONABLE HERE. MY EYES THEY BURN, I SEE THE IMAGES EVEN WITH MY EYES CLOSED" etc etc... and yet I still read them ._.
I'm not that familiar with Trickster, but I hope he comes out on top as well. I'm kind of confused as to what these players motivations were for what happened. Maybe they will release a joint statement of apology? Who knows.
B-dawg, you have forever ruined me. I'll never be able to look at FD or Trickster again. Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I hope things work out for FD after all this. I do enjoy watching him. (EDIT play! play! I enjoy watching him PLAY STARCRAFT 2 YOU GUYS)
You enjoy watching him eh LOL
Hes the submissive one
Well I can totally see Trickster being the dominant and Fruitdealer being the submissive just based on like You see trickster as a stronger player from the GSL results. Since it creates the window of dominance in terms of skill levels. Something like this
"Colossus are just so unfair." "It's ok, There are ways to ZvP, let me show you how...gently.."
But I really can't see Fruitdealer being dominant since he plays zerg, and doesn't have as good result as Trickster.
Oh god, why am I even reading your posts. I'm like "blasterion probably posted something reasonable and funny here!"
and then I read it and then I'm like "OH GOD OH GOD WHY DID I THINK BLASTERION WOULD POST SOMETHING REASONABLE HERE. MY EYES THEY BURN, I SEE THE IMAGES EVEN WITH MY EYES CLOSED" etc etc... and yet I still read them ._.
I'm not that familiar with Trickster, but I hope he comes out on top as well. I'm kind of confused as to what these players motivations were for what happened. Maybe they will release a joint statement of apology? Who knows.
I am a shoujo writer material, I can take a anything and make a romance story out of it.
that aside
I hop FD and Trickster can publish an apology or something like that, what they did was terrible.
I don't think we'll ever know the truth of what happened. I think it's too much to assume if you take this announcement as truth at face value. It all seems really fishy to me. I doubt FD and trickster would make claims like they were making with 0 case at all. Puma leaving also must be a sign of something, unless one would rather instead try to believe that trickster, puma, and FD are all douchebags.
"we apologise for only thinking about our team's rights, and not thinking from coach lee's perspective and the potential relationship between our team and TSL" - I find it unsettling that it would be considered selfish to think about one's team's rights, but it's a different culture and all.
"after going through TSL's bank account details and records, we agreed there had been misunderstandings between us" - Why wouldn't the bank statements have been looked at in the first place during the original arbitration?
"as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee" - So now this coach steps down as head of the committee? I understand he made a mistake (or perhaps not, and there's something else going on) but it seems a bit rash.
Honestly I don't really care, but I just wanted to bring some perspective to the opinion flipping collective that is tl.
On August 10 2011 04:39 masterbreti wrote: Well I did call out FD just now and he responded by saying
예그렇다고합시다ㅜㅠ
so from what I understand of my Korean he is saying what I said is right. Which I called him a liar, and that he should be ashamed.
He said 'Let's say that's right T_T'. Obviously, there's more subtext in that than admitting he flat out lied. As the article said, there were many misunderstandings and signals getting mixed up. I'm sure FD & Trickster assumed some things when they shouldn't have, but I doubt they purposefully lied to defame or extort money from Coach Lee.
This whole situation gets more confusing every week. I am glad that TSL is portrayed a lot friendlier these days and i am really happy that mama bear turned out, to not be the evil douchebag, like he was made out to be one week ago. I am also happy that the ST-coach resigned from his post as head of the SC2Con, because not considering any drama, his actions are disgusting for someone who is supposed to be a the head of the organisation. An organisation thats supposed to protect the interests of ALL the teams and ALL the players, making accusations and even giving a statement that discredits a team-manager, and even attacks him on a professional and personal level, is not the way things should work.
@ FXOboss ever since you mentioned you would shed some light on the things going on behind the scenes of the SC2Con i was stalking you :-p (your posts). I really hope your statement will enlighten me. The korean scene seems to be run a bit different from what i know. I sometimes i dont understand how they do their things. Well i can just hope that the international SC2 scene stays strong, so that we dont have to give a shit about what a freaking corrupt korean organisation thinks about the game i love to watch (Kespa, maybe SC2Con). One more "p" and you will get disqualified SC2Con.
Dont bother them on twitter about this, gawh just leave them alone they know what they did is wrong. And even coach lee doesnt want to see any punishment towards them.
They did (eventually , after all this drama) come clean about it.
On August 10 2011 04:49 Rucho wrote: I don't think we'll ever know the truth of what happened. I think it's too much to assume if you take this announcement as truth at face value. It all seems really fishy to me. I doubt FD and trickster would make claims like they were making with 0 case at all. Puma leaving also must be a sign of something, unless one would rather instead try to believe that trickster, puma, and FD are all douchebags.
"we apologise for only thinking about our team's rights, and not thinking from coach lee's perspective and the potential relationship between our team and TSL" - I find it unsettling that it would be considered selfish to think about one's team's rights, but it's a different culture and all.
"after going through TSL's bank account details and records, we agreed there had been misunderstandings between us" - Why wouldn't the bank statements have been looked at in the first place during the original arbitration?
"as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee" - So now this coach steps down as head of the committee? I understand he made a mistake (or perhaps not, and there's something else going on) but it seems a bit rash.
Honestly I don't really care, but I just wanted to bring some perspective to the opinion flipping collective that is tl.
People are well known to lie their asses off, I don't see why FD and Tester are exempt from this rule?
Puma left (as far as I can tell) because Korean player salaries suck, and he wasn't even getting one at that. EG is the company with the $$$$$. I don't think he's a douchebag, he just saw a better deal on the table and went after it, good for him .
On August 10 2011 04:49 Rucho wrote: I don't think we'll ever know the truth of what happened. I think it's too much to assume if you take this announcement as truth at face value. It all seems really fishy to me. I doubt FD and trickster would make claims like they were making with 0 case at all. Puma leaving also must be a sign of something, unless one would rather instead try to believe that trickster, puma, and FD are all douchebags.
"we apologise for only thinking about our team's rights, and not thinking from coach lee's perspective and the potential relationship between our team and TSL" - I find it unsettling that it would be considered selfish to think about one's team's rights, but it's a different culture and all.
"after going through TSL's bank account details and records, we agreed there had been misunderstandings between us" - Why wouldn't the bank statements have been looked at in the first place during the original arbitration?
"as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee" - So now this coach steps down as head of the committee? I understand he made a mistake (or perhaps not, and there's something else going on) but it seems a bit rash.
Honestly I don't really care, but I just wanted to bring some perspective to the opinion flipping collective that is tl.
He made a huge mistake and totally ruined the reputation of a reputable team. Coach lee came back and showed financial / bank statements showing that for the most part he payed FD and trickster on time while they were on the team, they were owed money after they left the team, and that was not payed, but since fruitdealer and trickster barely even showed up there is a reason they didnt get it i beleive.
I dont see how resigning seems a bit harsh? Seems not harsh enough for making such serious claims based off of 2 players oppinion and kicking TSL out of sc2con and ruining their reputation. Stepping down seems like the only appropriate course of action after such an emberrasiing debacle.
And trickster and FD are douchebags for lying about it, they got proven wrong with many of their statements through those bank statements/ financials (w/e it was) among other things, im still fans of them though maybe just a bit less. Hopefully they take things more seriously from now on.
On August 10 2011 04:49 Rucho wrote: I don't think we'll ever know the truth of what happened. I think it's too much to assume if you take this announcement as truth at face value. It all seems really fishy to me. I doubt FD and trickster would make claims like they were making with 0 case at all. Puma leaving also must be a sign of something, unless one would rather instead try to believe that trickster, puma, and FD are all douchebags.
"we apologise for only thinking about our team's rights, and not thinking from coach lee's perspective and the potential relationship between our team and TSL" - I find it unsettling that it would be considered selfish to think about one's team's rights, but it's a different culture and all.
"after going through TSL's bank account details and records, we agreed there had been misunderstandings between us" - Why wouldn't the bank statements have been looked at in the first place during the original arbitration?
"as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee" - So now this coach steps down as head of the committee? I understand he made a mistake (or perhaps not, and there's something else going on) but it seems a bit rash.
Honestly I don't really care, but I just wanted to bring some perspective to the opinion flipping collective that is tl.
Just so you are up to date. The StarTale Coach was the head of the organisation that persucuted the TSL Coach Mr Lee. In his statement the ST-Coach basicly admitts that he was not unbiased and that he made a rash decision, taking the statement of two players who were playing for him over the statement of the opposing side. Thus he did a poor job, because he should be unbiased as the head of the sc2con and he was not. Why the bankstatement was not there in the first place? Well maybe coach lee did not expect that the statements about the payments would come up. Maybe because it now came out those statements were lies. So maybe he did not expect it and was not prepared to defend against that. And since he basicly was sentenced before he could bring the evidence the TSL coach felt treated unfairly and left.
Well or maybe we still have no real clue what the hell really happened :-p
I tried not to get too involved in the whole drama surrounding TSL recently and i just cant help but feel sorry for them after all these shitstorms surrounding them which have all turned out to just be misunderstandings everytime i hope they can recover their "reputation" and not be seen as that team with plenty of controversy following them around.
It's nice to see that perhaps Coach Lee had not been so malicioius as it initially seemed, but I don't feel like this has really made TSL's management as a whole seem much better. Perhaps we can look at this and shift more blame towards FD and Tester, but at the end of the day it still looks to me like TSL was just a mess. I do hope they're taking measures to ensure their recent problems are not repeated.
Still, best of luck to all involved moving forward.
I really doubt this just turns everything back on FD and Tester, sounds more and more like a bad fit and both parties contributed to it, and they should be happy they split
On August 10 2011 04:49 Rucho wrote: I don't think we'll ever know the truth of what happened. I think it's too much to assume if you take this announcement as truth at face value. It all seems really fishy to me. I doubt FD and trickster would make claims like they were making with 0 case at all. Puma leaving also must be a sign of something, unless one would rather instead try to believe that trickster, puma, and FD are all douchebags.
"we apologise for only thinking about our team's rights, and not thinking from coach lee's perspective and the potential relationship between our team and TSL" - I find it unsettling that it would be considered selfish to think about one's team's rights, but it's a different culture and all.
"after going through TSL's bank account details and records, we agreed there had been misunderstandings between us" - Why wouldn't the bank statements have been looked at in the first place during the original arbitration?
"as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee" - So now this coach steps down as head of the committee? I understand he made a mistake (or perhaps not, and there's something else going on) but it seems a bit rash.
Honestly I don't really care, but I just wanted to bring some perspective to the opinion flipping collective that is tl.
Just so you are up to date. The StarTale Coach was the head of the organisation that persucuted the TSL Coach Mr Lee. In his statement the ST-Coach basicly admitts that he was not unbiased and that he made a rash decision, taking the statement of two players who were playing for him over the statement of the opposing side. Thus he did a poor job, because he should be unbiased as the head of the sc2con and he was not. Why the bankstatement was not there in the first place? Well maybe coach lee did not expect that the statements about the payments would come up. Maybe because it now came out those statements were lies. So maybe he did not expect it and was not prepared to defend against that. And since he basicly was sentenced before he could bring the evidence the TSL coach felt treated unfairly and left.
Well or maybe we still have no real clue what the hell really happened :-p
Basically from what i understand about coach lee's statement from the previous post, he thought he was going to an sc2 con hearing for an open discussion, and everyone just started pointing fingers at him and making accusations, and then they made a decision about him having to pay a sum of money to FD Trickster . Here is a quote fromm coach lee "The fact that this was judged so quickly by Tricker's views is regretful. We could not appeal the decision done by the comittee."
So they went there and the decision was made (he obviously didnt bring the bank statements with him) and he couldnt make an appeal.
Since then obviously he has got all the documents together to support his claims and show that FD and Trickster were lying , and thats where we are now.
On August 10 2011 04:49 Rucho wrote: I don't think we'll ever know the truth of what happened. I think it's too much to assume if you take this announcement as truth at face value. It all seems really fishy to me. I doubt FD and trickster would make claims like they were making with 0 case at all. Puma leaving also must be a sign of something, unless one would rather instead try to believe that trickster, puma, and FD are all douchebags.
I agree this whole thing seems to have a bit of unnatural feel to it.
"we apologise for only thinking about our team's rights, and not thinking from coach lee's perspective and the potential relationship between our team and TSL" - I find it unsettling that it would be considered selfish to think about one's team's rights, but it's a different culture and all.
It's not that looking after his own team was bad, it's that ST made alot of accusation which could directly affect TSL's sponsorship, and they could just decide to pull out their money. If ST coach didn't come clean, it is very safe to assume TSL would have a hard time finding future sponsors. In real world, you could get sued for this kind of accusation.
"after going through TSL's bank account details and records, we agreed there had been misunderstandings between us" - Why wouldn't the bank statements have been looked at in the first place during the original arbitration?
Initially Coach Lee claimed SC2 committee made a decision without hearing his side of story and made it clear there would be no appeal for coach Lee. Then they later changed stance and told he could.
"as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee" - So now this coach steps down as head of the committee? I understand he made a mistake (or perhaps not, and there's something else going on) but it seems a bit rash.
Honestly I don't really care, but I just wanted to bring some perspective to the opinion flipping collective that is tl.
I think the least ST coach could do was to resign. I fail to understand how would anyone think that's bit rash for him to do that.
However, I would agree with you that, there is no point trying to find 'the truth' in this matter. I mean, when ST coach comes out and admit that it was all false, it is probably a good idea to just go with the story whether you see something strange or not. If anything, speculating at this point when ST coach himself made a statement like that would be unreasonable.
I don't care if I really believe the whole thing or not. This case is pretty much settled as far as I'm concerned and I dont want to waste my brain cell anymore trying to make a sense out of it. There is no need to.
It's nice to see that perhaps Coach Lee had not been so malicioius as it initially seemed, but I don't feel like this has really made TSL's management as a whole seem much better. Perhaps we can look at this and shift more blame towards FD and Tester, but at the end of the day it still looks to me like TSL was just a mess. I do hope they're taking measures to ensure their recent problems are not repeated.
Still, best of luck to all involved moving forward.
On August 10 2011 05:03 Demidyne wrote: I really doubt this just turns everything back on FD and Tester, sounds more and more like a bad fit and both parties contributed to it, and they should be happy they split
Even though FD and Trickster pretty much admitted they were wrong / exxagerating about pretty much everything. You still continue to blame TSL? Obviously i think coach lee could have handeled it better, but from the sounds of it TSL wasnt in the wrong at all , judging by the fact that 1. Coach won has resigned from head of sc2con 2. More measures most likely would have been taken against fruitdealer and trickster but coach lee said he didnt want to see them punished.
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the seme goes first. D'oh. My bad.
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the seme goes first. D'oh. My bad.
I have little talent for writing BL so I'll leave it all up to you Maybe I could do a SlayerSJessica X SlayerSEve fanfic later
It seems like, to me anyways, this all resulted because there wasn't enough communication between all the parties involved.
I suppose this should be a lesson to any team, this really hasn't accomplished anything but stain some people's reputation, and I doubt Fruitdealer and Tester outright lied, since they'd have to know they'd get caught.
Overall, big misunderstanding leads to tons of controversy.
And now the truth comes out...Seriously so much drama over TSL :/. Glad to see they are now vindicated to some extent, hopefully it won't hurt the team too much.
On August 10 2011 05:30 VonBlucher wrote: It seems like, to me anyways, this all resulted because there wasn't enough communication between all the parties involved.
I suppose this should be a lesson to any team, this really hasn't accomplished anything but stain some people's reputation, and I doubt Fruitdealer and Tester outright lied, since they'd have to know they'd get caught.
Overall, big misunderstanding leads to tons of controversy.
But isn't that kind of what FD and Tester did with the whole blowing up of the situation and claiming they weren't being paid, etc etc?
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the seme goes first. D'oh. My bad.
I have little talent for writing BL so I'll leave it all up to you Maybe I could do a SlayerSJessica X SlayerSEve fanfic later
On August 10 2011 05:30 VonBlucher wrote: and I doubt Fruitdealer and Tester outright lied, since they'd have to know they'd get caught.
Yea that normally does not stop people from lying. Also when you're new coach is the head of the org you need to complain to.......
If they lied, it's possible they hoped there would be no appeal and their lies would never be revealed; this was almost the case. Still, I'd like to see an official statement from the two of them regarding what the whole deal is, so I'm reserving judgment for now.
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the seme goes first. D'oh. My bad.
I have little talent for writing BL so I'll leave it all up to you Maybe I could do a SlayerSJessica X SlayerSEve fanfic later
Challenge accepted.
I am wondering how one would tag a fanfic in which the partners switch roles, though. That said, I am convinced FD is submissive most of the time. Trickster definitely looks like the leader, FD the follower. Wouldn't be surprised if the same would hold true in bed.
On August 10 2011 05:30 VonBlucher wrote: and I doubt Fruitdealer and Tester outright lied, since they'd have to know they'd get caught.
Yea that normally does not stop people from lying. Also when you're new coach is the head of the org you need to complain to.......
If they lied, it's possible they hoped there would be no appeal and their lies would never be revealed; this was almost the case. Still, I'd like to see an official statement from the two of them regarding what the whole deal is, so I'm reserving judgment for now.
They were probably told "Hey you lied, created a shitstorm for TSL/Coach Lee and your new team and got caught, now if you really don't want the hammer coming down on your heads, you'll shut up from now on and don't say shit about it anymore"
On August 10 2011 05:37 tripper688 wrote: And now the truth comes out...Seriously so much drama over TSL :/. Glad to see they are now vindicated to some extent, hopefully it won't hurt the team too much.
On August 10 2011 05:30 VonBlucher wrote: It seems like, to me anyways, this all resulted because there wasn't enough communication between all the parties involved.
I suppose this should be a lesson to any team, this really hasn't accomplished anything but stain some people's reputation, and I doubt Fruitdealer and Tester outright lied, since they'd have to know they'd get caught.
Overall, big misunderstanding leads to tons of controversy.
But isn't that kind of what FD and Tester did with the whole blowing up of the situation and claiming they weren't being paid, etc etc?
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the seme goes first. D'oh. My bad.
I have little talent for writing BL so I'll leave it all up to you Maybe I could do a SlayerSJessica X SlayerSEve fanfic later
...whaaaaatttttttt?[/QUOTE] A romantic story about a manager and a new player of a team, who was bullied by many for having special treatment. Our Heroine fights to protect her new family, the two comes closer together. And we have a romance story.
It's totally possible. Jessica being seme and Eve being uke of course.
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the seme goes first. D'oh. My bad.
I have little talent for writing BL so I'll leave it all up to you Maybe I could do a SlayerSJessica X SlayerSEve fanfic later
Challenge accepted.
I am wondering how one would tag a fanfic in which the partners switch roles, though. That said, I am convinced FD is submissive most of the time. Trickster definitely looks like the leader, FD the follower. Wouldn't be surprised if the same would hold true in bed.
I regret my post in the earlier thread still think he abused puma for some thing that he shouldn't have abused him for. players shouldn't be force to stay on a team if they dont want to/have a better offer and this oh he was obligated to stay/stolen from us was bullcrap. I couldn't care less if eg whent directly to puma or not the end result would of been the same and if you don;t have a contract then what your players do is none of your business.
but I really should of atleast credited the possabilty fruitdealer and trickster were either lying or mistaken.
On August 10 2011 03:37 Chargelot wrote: You know what? I just don't care anymore.
Minus 100% respect for TSL, the players, and the coach. They shouldn't be involved in any of this stupid shit. Also, I have no respect for the committee, who apparently just believes everything they're told, and shoots first then asks questions later.
Dear God, it's like this was all planned for attention. Seems like Korean E-Sports is run by a bunch of eleven year olds.
This man knows where it's at. I wholeheartedly agree with him, and while there are some things that don't make sense in this entire case, I just don't fucking care anymore. I hope, as punishment, the ST coach forces Trickster and FruitDealer to put in significantly longer practice hours so we can finally see some results. Having said that ...
On August 10 2011 01:21 Horse...falcon wrote: Well this is an entirely larger clusterfuck altogether. Fruitdealer, Tester, and Coach Lee are actually international criminal barons vying for control of the illegal soju market. As an alibi they became progamers/managers of SC2 teams to mislead interpol. Unfortunately their lack of practice/appearance at the teamhouse gave them away and FD/Tester attempted to give up Coach Lee to the authorities only to have it backfire on them.
Seriously though I want to see how this mess ends before the raging starts.
Incoming fanfiction! With some FruitDealer x Trickster thrown in, of course. It will be epic. I'll notify you guys when it's done.
Fruitdealer X Trickster is fail. So bad that it is terrible. Trickster X Fruitdealer is where it's at
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the seme goes first. D'oh. My bad.
I have little talent for writing BL so I'll leave it all up to you Maybe I could do a SlayerSJessica X SlayerSEve fanfic later
A slightly off-topic comment, but its very...humbling to see people in E-sports willingly take responsibility for their actions.
Maybe, as an American, Ive just been so tired of seeing (for example) the American government never take the responsibility for their negative actions.
Reading between the lines, we can learn a lot from people like this...
On August 10 2011 05:57 magicallypuzzled wrote: I couldn't care less if eg whent directly to puma or not the end result would of been the same and if you don;t have a contract then what your players do is none of your business.
You do realize there's difference in culture here? In the Western world that shit flies, no question. In Korea however it does NOT!! You being from US you only understand the situation as it would be in the US.
Wow, hard to tell what to believe in all this esports drama. I think I'll just assume that both parties are at fault in these kinds of disputes from now on... but glad this is (hopefully) resolved.
On August 10 2011 05:30 VonBlucher wrote: and I doubt Fruitdealer and Tester outright lied, since they'd have to know they'd get caught.
Yea that normally does not stop people from lying. Also when you're new coach is the head of the org you need to complain to.......
....Then obviously any perceived wrongdoing will be brought to attention a lot more quickly, and maybe personal emotions will lead you to make public statements too quickly.
Get that you have a distaste for this organization, but implying they were intentionally trying to deceive anyone is going too far, especially when it's specifically mentioned in the statement that fd/trickster were just mistaken. Sometimes miscommunication just happens, there doesn't need to be any malicious intent involved.
Looks like Coach Lee is in the clear. Always thought there was something fishy with all this. Hopefully FruitDealer and TricKsteR can change for the better.
On August 10 2011 06:20 Kvz wrote: i pretty sad fruitdealer/tester did this ><
Yeah :O
I'm surprised, honestly. They have nothing to gain except the defamation of Coach Lee/TSL. Why would they want that?
Cause some people are just assholes for the sake of being assholes. And before everybody jumps on me for being so harsh, sorry, but there are people in the world who are just dicks, no if, ands or buts about it.
i have no idea what to believe any more. Would surprise me at all to hear somebody got blackmailed or threads were exchanged behind the curtains. And i say that only half jokingly....
mucho respect to Coach Lee. Loved that guy on MBC Game Hero, and glad to see he's still an upstanding person. I have lost respect for FD and Tester though after all of this. And despite all of this, Coach Lee and TSL still want no punishment to be made to them, THAT is being the bigger person. Bravo to TSL and Coach Lee.
I wish I could quote everyone who made unfair statements about Coach Lee in the last thread but there are too many and we can all go and read them if we want.
Its good to see the truth come out, but to me it seems that FD, Tester and the ST coach got off too lightly.
I don't think I said anything specifically negative about Coach Lee in the previous thread, but I definitely doubted his credibility a bit, internally. Poor guy, must've been tough to hear that much negativity when he knew he wasn't in the wrong.
Happy to hear this. Watched the Hyungjoon becomes a progamer show and coach Lee always seemed like a humble and nice guy and the accusations seemed really weird. Hopefully all parties have learned a lesson from this drama and there's no bad blood remaining.
On August 10 2011 08:08 Medrea wrote: This is all shady as fuck.
I don't buy anything Im hearing
Now we're supposed to believe TSL is a happy sunshine place when people are jumping ship left and right.
They lost 3 players...... not 48.
Here is each case for reference
Rain- Rain wanted a foreign team to be in. he wanted the money and fame. plus from what I've spoken to rain about. He just wasn't as happy. He wanted to travel and see the world. so being on a NA team was his bestshot at that.
Puma- Well he was approached by EG with the promise of fame and glory and money, lost of money. So of course being young and naive. He took it and left.
FD and TRickster- They were lazy and drinking a lot, didn't practice and it was not helping the team atmosphere. Lee (in a nutshell) told them to straighten up and they walked.
On August 10 2011 08:08 Medrea wrote: This is all shady as fuck.
I don't buy anything Im hearing
Now we're supposed to believe TSL is a happy sunshine place when people are jumping ship left and right.
They lost 3 players...... not 48.
I count 4, Rain, Tester, FD, Puma. It's quite a good chunk of their team. And those were not their "lesser" players.
My bad 4, forgot about Rain. But read the post above yours. Rain left because he didn't want to live in Korea anymore (not something TSL can help with), Puma got some $$$$$$'s thrown his way, and FD and Tester I think have showed their true colors here.
On August 10 2011 08:08 Medrea wrote: This is all shady as fuck.
I don't buy anything Im hearing
Now we're supposed to believe TSL is a happy sunshine place when people are jumping ship left and right.
They lost 3 players...... not 48.
Here is each case for reference
Rain- Rain wanted a foreign team to be in. he wanted the money and fame. plus from what I've spoken to rain about. He just wasn't as happy. He wanted to travel and see the world. so being on a NA team was his bestshot at that. Puma- Well he was approached by EG with the promise of fame and glory and money, lost of money. So of course being young and naive. He took it and left.
FD and TRickster- They were lazy and drinking a lot, didn't practice and it was not helping the team atmosphere. Lee (in a nutshell) told them to straighten up and they walked.
You should try harder to make EG look bad, holy crap.
Man, it feels good to have coach Lee exonerated. I said in a post on the other thread that I didn't believe that it was this one-sided against TSL, and it is good to see the true colors of the situation. Hopefully this will have a positive effect on TSL's search for sponsers.
On August 10 2011 08:08 Medrea wrote: This is all shady as fuck.
I don't buy anything Im hearing
Now we're supposed to believe TSL is a happy sunshine place when people are jumping ship left and right.
They lost 3 players...... not 48.
Here is each case for reference
Rain- Rain wanted a foreign team to be in. he wanted the money and fame. plus from what I've spoken to rain about. He just wasn't as happy. He wanted to travel and see the world. so being on a NA team was his bestshot at that.
Puma- Well he was approached by EG with the promise of fame and glory and money, lost of money. So of course being young and naive. He took it and left.
FD and TRickster- They were lazy and drinking a lot, didn't practice and it was not helping the team atmosphere. Lee (in a nutshell) told them to straighten up and they walked.
Rain left because he wanted to go to school in US, (His family is in New York)
FD and Trickster are not exactly the top tier of SC2 progamer talent anymore, it's not like losing them is some kind of big blow to TSL. Losing Puma and Rain is way worse but it's not like TSL is some nub team now.
TSL will show people they aren't weak as some think they are! Go Coach Lee!
On August 10 2011 08:08 Medrea wrote: This is all shady as fuck.
I don't buy anything Im hearing
Now we're supposed to believe TSL is a happy sunshine place when people are jumping ship left and right.
They lost 3 players...... not 48.
Here is each case for reference
Rain- Rain wanted a foreign team to be in. he wanted the money and fame. plus from what I've spoken to rain about. He just wasn't as happy. He wanted to travel and see the world. so being on a NA team was his bestshot at that.
Puma- Well he was approached by EG with the promise of fame and glory and money, lost of money. So of course being young and naive. He took it and left.
FD and TRickster- They were lazy and drinking a lot, didn't practice and it was not helping the team atmosphere. Lee (in a nutshell) told them to straighten up and they walked.
Rain left because he wanted to go to school in US, (His family is in New York)
Well its seeing the world if one has only lived in Korea. and also getting to travel to various tournaments and such.
On August 10 2011 08:08 Medrea wrote: This is all shady as fuck.
I don't buy anything Im hearing
Now we're supposed to believe TSL is a happy sunshine place when people are jumping ship left and right.
They lost 3 players...... not 48.
Here is each case for reference
Rain- Rain wanted a foreign team to be in. he wanted the money and fame. plus from what I've spoken to rain about. He just wasn't as happy. He wanted to travel and see the world. so being on a NA team was his bestshot at that.
Puma- Well he was approached by EG with the promise of fame and glory and money, lost of money. So of course being young and naive. He took it and left.
FD and TRickster- They were lazy and drinking a lot, didn't practice and it was not helping the team atmosphere. Lee (in a nutshell) told them to straighten up and they walked.
Rain left because he wanted to go to school in US, (His family is in New York)
Well its seeing the world if one has only lived in Korea. and also getting to travel to various tournaments and such.
The main reason he did it is because he father lives and works in NYC, and he wanted to be able to see him more on a regular basis. Yeah it wasn't the only reason, but to me that trumps 'seeing the world, money and fame'
The worst part is how people insulted Coach Lee in the previous thread. Calling him dirty, a shark, a bad guy, a weirdo, a thief, a con, a massive asshole, a loose cannon, a fucking slave driver, dog behaviour, a trainwreck, a scammer, a compulsive lier, a dick, a serious douche bag, a criminal,... anyway you get it.
On August 10 2011 09:08 AlBundy wrote: The worst part is how people insulted Coach Lee in the previous thread. Calling him dirty, a shark, a bad guy, a weirdo, a thief, a con, a massive asshole, a loose cannon, a fucking slave driver, dog behaviour, a trainwreck, a scammer, a compulsive lier, a dick, a serious douche bag, a criminal,... anyway you get it.
I think there are lessons to be learned here.
Yes the lesson learned is that Peggy must have bought you a thesaurus for Christmas....lol
On August 10 2011 09:08 AlBundy wrote: The worst part is how people insulted Coach Lee in the previous thread. Calling him dirty, a shark, a bad guy, a weirdo, a thief, a con, a massive asshole, a loose cannon, a fucking slave driver, dog behaviour, a trainwreck, a scammer, a compulsive lier, a dick, a serious douche bag, a criminal,... anyway you get it.
I think there are lessons to be learned here.
Yes the lesson learned is that Peggy must have bought you a thesaurus for Christmas....lol
On August 10 2011 09:08 AlBundy wrote: The worst part is how people insulted Coach Lee in the previous thread. Calling him dirty, a shark, a bad guy, a weirdo, a thief, a con, a massive asshole, a loose cannon, a fucking slave driver, dog behaviour, a trainwreck, a scammer, a compulsive lier, a dick, a serious douche bag, a criminal,... anyway you get it.
I think there are lessons to be learned here.
Yes the lesson learned is that Peggy must have bought you a thesaurus for Christmas....lol
On August 10 2011 09:08 AlBundy wrote: The worst part is how people insulted Coach Lee in the previous thread. Calling him dirty, a shark, a bad guy, a weirdo, a thief, a con, a massive asshole, a loose cannon, a fucking slave driver, dog behaviour, a trainwreck, a scammer, a compulsive lier, a dick, a serious douche bag, a criminal,... anyway you get it.
I think there are lessons to be learned here.
Yes the lesson learned is that Peggy must have bought you a thesaurus for Christmas....lol
I want to be really happy. On the one hand i feel TSL is vindicated. And on the other this reaffirms my growing intense dislike for Fruit and Trickster. But i still feel like this isn't the end of things. I hope it is but i dunno, feels too good to be true from a pro TSL, anti-Fruit/Trickster standpoint.
Well one good thing is Fruitdealer and Trickster has admitted and apologized (well FD on twitter at least?). Honestly overall it seems to be a somewhat happy ending.
Holy shit. I feel just as vindicated because I tried to defend Coach Lee in the first thread, got shut down and had to give up my position in the face of evidence.
This is a great day for Coach Lee and a good day for my pride.
On August 10 2011 12:02 Probe1 wrote: Holy shit. I feel just as vindicated because I tried to defend Coach Lee in the first thread, got shut down and had to give up my position in the face of evidence.
This is a great day for Coach Lee and a good day for my pride.
but thats just the problem with tlers on these issues.. I had a soft spot for coach lee too but just made the case that we dont know whats realllyyy going on..
I still doubt Lee is totally in the wrong but yeah.. for the most part it seemed obvious FD and Tester were slacking and had it coming..
yeah i said it before and i'll say it again, it was a little fishy that everything seems to go wrong with coach lee after reading his interview with the whole puma thing. it was hard to hate him
Man fuck trickster and fruitdealer, they don't practice, get terrible results and then have the audacity to make "false testimonies" about the coach and the team.
On August 09 2011 22:04 zeehar wrote: "as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee"
Wtf. Why is that necessary? It's not dishonorable to make a mistake if someone else lied to you. I feel like people would forgive you. You do not need to resign. I really don't understand the culture difference here.
He should resign. Completely ridiculous to not properly investigate the claims. It sounds as if they just took the players words and summarily judged TSL. Ridiculous.
On August 10 2011 13:07 weiliem wrote: As i zerg player, i use to love FD, but not anymore..... such a disgrace.... N i use to hate tester, but now i hate him even more....
Same here. I didn't like Tester the minute he said he was unbeatable in PvZ and proceeded to do nothing but two pylon cannon ramp block EVERY SINGLE GAME. He was so gimmicky and his plays are still gimmicky these days. They're well thought out but gimmicky. And I've never seen him take a third, some two base strategy every game. Now I hate him more, too.
On August 09 2011 22:04 zeehar wrote: "as the head of the sc2 committee, i will hold myself responsible for the rash decision and subsequent harm to TSL that i took without regard to the severity of the situation, and resign as the head of the committee"
Wtf. Why is that necessary? It's not dishonorable to make a mistake if someone else lied to you. I feel like people would forgive you. You do not need to resign. I really don't understand the culture difference here.
er, if you're the freaking chairman of a committee of all the korean sc2 teams, i think you should be taking a little more time and effort to verify the claims of two players before launching an attack on another team and kicking them out, you know? completely amateurish... it's like the police blindly placing a warrant on someone just because some douche said he/she was a criminal. think they're still doing their job properly?
Nice to see that things have been more or less corrected. I love fruitdealer and tester and completely took their word with regards to the situation at hand. I expect TSL to evolve past this and move forward together as one of the most prominent and successful SC2 teams in Korea.
it's so sad that money corrupt the professional scene so fast, inevitable and irrevocable. we just want to enjoy beautiful and fair sport, but these intrigues and schemes in the background overshadow the competition on the scene.
Wow. This is just getting tiring. It is good the Coach Lee is not the DB that he was sounding like from the last situation, but overall, let's just move on.
Ugh, I am hoping I got lost in translation somewhere, but whats up with the hating of the players?? It seems as if a misunderstanding turned into emotion response battle. So tell me how responses like this don't fall under the same category?
As i zerg player, i use to love FD, but not anymore..... such a disgrace.... N i use to hate tester, but now i hate him even more....
Whats wrong with supporting the players even if their was poor decision making? No reason to jump on the hate train...
On August 10 2011 16:16 EclipZe wrote: Ugh, I am hoping I got lost in translation somewhere, but whats up with the hating of the players?? It seems as if a misunderstanding turned into emotion response battle. So tell me how responses like this don't fall under the same category?
poor decision making? really? it's just like saying homeless people go robbing and kipnapping and when they got caught, back them up by saying poor decision making. Dude, seriously? Those idiots lied, made sc2 ban tsl, their image is heavily damaged, coach lee, who's been devoted to esports was accused of lieing to them, you think it is ok not to hate them? There are people who are more easily to forgive people, but for the majority, NO.
On August 05 2011 00:21 MarChe wrote: youngminii, I agree with your 1st and 4th paragraphs
The fact that people can so easily hate on Coach Lee (and people in general) is disappointing to see. Despite the expectation - that it seems most people have - that the information we are fed is trustworthy and accurate, it still surprises me to see how many people are willing to jump to conclusions and make broad, sweeping statements on a topic that frankly they don't know any more about than what the few posts on TL have told them. Seriously, the community can be so judgemental just because of a media source that points one way or another.
Remember the hate towards SlayerSJessica, people saying she was unprofessional and the like for "overreacting" to apparently innocent twitter posts? That completely reversed once the second thread popped up from her point of view.
That's what happens when randoms post in the other thread that coach lee is a bad person (or comments of that ilk)
I already mentioned in the other post that we won't know the truth unless Lee gets audited, and in this case he simply handed over all the bank statements, bills, etc.
Tester and FD are lazy fucks, even if salary was withheld, i reinforce my other post that they should be punished that way regardless of legality especially when they were the most respected players on the team, but this is not the case, they seemed to have had their salaries paid, etc.
On August 09 2011 22:17 TehForce wrote: now its total confusion and nobody knows what happened except the involved persons. don't know what to think of the whole situation with TSL / FD+Tester / SC2 Association.
Bro, can you not read? All the bank statements, bills, etc have been released, the victmized party has been cleared of all accusations, startale coach owned up to his rash mistake. What "confusions" are there... Are you slow or what? I really have an obsessive compulsive disorder when it comes to dumb comments like that, it's like some people either really don't get it, or intuitively wants to stir up more controversies out of nothing.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Because Tester and FD are startale coach's friends, he said: to him, they're like brothers etc.
Awesome roller coaster ride!!! Well I'm glad all has been revealed, and I really liked how Startales coach apologized. Gotta give it to the Koreans, they are very decent when it comes to handling anything I suppose.
On August 09 2011 22:10 TimeFlighT wrote: Coach Lee is now proven innocent.
Shame to all the people in that TSL thread that said Coach Lee is a disgrace to SC2.
I personally apologize for my opinions about the situation, but you must understand we as players were fed the same falsified information that the committee received
As such, I do not feel shame, only embarassment. I am not ashamed of my thought process in the matter
It would have been sad to lose a pro team from korea. Im hoping to see more stars come out of this team in the future :D Also, im glad coach lee's reputation has been cleared up
Extremely unfortunate that people feel the need to pull these tricks that cause unnecessary drama. I'm glad that Coach Lee's name has been cleared, though. Hopefully this will be the end of it all.
On August 10 2011 23:35 Hesmyrr wrote: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named 2.0 (albeit potentially unintentionally)
Either way looks like bandwagon spirit is not only strong within netizens, but rather unfortunately omnipresent.
Damn will people stfu about 'bandwagon'; already, with the information we knew Coach Lee was a dick. So people said this, now this has been cleared up and Coach Lee has done nothing one so people are supporting him, this has nothing to do with a bandwagon, this is because the information that has been known at the time has altered people's opinions of him.
On August 10 2011 23:35 Hesmyrr wrote: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named 2.0 (albeit potentially unintentionally)
Either way looks like bandwagon spirit is not only strong within netizens, but rather unfortunately omnipresent.
Damn will people stfu about 'bandwagon'; already, with the information we knew Coach Lee was a dick. So people said this, now this has been cleared up and Coach Lee has done nothing one so people are supporting him, this has nothing to do with a bandwagon, this is because the information that has been known at the time has altered people's opinions of him.
You don't call people dicks based off incomplete information from one side. Has everything to do with bandwagon
On August 10 2011 23:35 Hesmyrr wrote: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named 2.0 (albeit potentially unintentionally)
Either way looks like bandwagon spirit is not only strong within netizens, but rather unfortunately omnipresent.
Damn will people stfu about 'bandwagon'; already, with the information we knew Coach Lee was a dick. So people said this, now this has been cleared up and Coach Lee has done nothing one so people are supporting him, this has nothing to do with a bandwagon, this is because the information that has been known at the time has altered people's opinions of him.
Maybe people should withold judging people harshly until you have more than a few quotes from a korean article to base it on, ey?
I think I may have to begin ignoring the business side of sc2 in korea because its turning out like kespa and all that ever did was make me highly angry.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
Thank you for posting this and cleaning up the entire mess of the situation. I expect that poor translations/ exagerated translations will continue to be the norm in ESPORTS. Until the people (players, translators, coaches, team officials, ESPORTS officials) who are involved actually care about what they are posting/saying/translating we will continue to see brou ha has much like the TSL situation. boo hoo!
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
It's no secret that FD has poor commitment to practice/sc - I highly doubt he will stay in code A much longer what with all the people in code b that simply WANT it more than him. I love him, but I don't know... he has problems - again, not exactly a secret >.>
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
Ok look, staying in Coda A and Code S is way easier than getting in code A from code B. Let's say DRG and FD are both free, neither of them having a team. One is in code B having a huge potential of being a future GSL champion, one is already in code S but performing poorly and doesn't have a slightest chance of winning the whole thing, which one are you gonna choose??? The one with the more potential? yes? DRG? these RANDOM UNKNOWNS has way more values than those staying in code S due to their prior results but having a downhill perfomence.
On August 09 2011 22:07 Kaiwa wrote: Was already surprised that Coach Lee would do such stuff. FruitDealer and Tester staying classy -_-
Did you read it at all? Did any of you read it? It pretty much states that the an investigation took place and Tester along with FD were found out. Their story didn't add up, no money was takin from them. Tester and FD were in the wrong, Coach Lee is not in the wrong at all.
On August 09 2011 22:07 Kaiwa wrote: Was already surprised that Coach Lee would do such stuff. FruitDealer and Tester staying classy -_-
Did you read it at all? Did any of you read it? It pretty much states that the an investigation took place and Tester along with FD were found out. Their story didn't add up, no money was takin from them. Tester and FD were in the wrong, Coach Lee is not in the wrong at all.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
Ok look, staying in Coda A and Code S is way easier than getting in code A from code B. Let's say DRG and FD are both free, neither of them having a team. One is in code B having a huge potential of being a future GSL champion, one is already in code S but performing poorly and doesn't have a slightest chance of winning the whole thing, which one are you gonna choose??? The one with the more potential? yes? DRG? these RANDOM UNKNOWNS has way more values than those staying in code S due to their prior results but having a downhill perfomence.
The example of DRG is irrelevant since he is in fact not on a team so ST can't pick him up. Even if he was a free agent, though, your assumption that he is more valuable than a code S player is highly questionable. No smart coach is going to assume that DRG is destined to become a gsl champion and that their code s player is destined to fall to code b. That's not a smart way to play the odds (and indeed, DRG lost in the ro16). But again, DRG is an extreme and irrelevant example.
Its fine if you have a negative opinion of FD and tester's behavior outside the game, but its simply incorrect to call them irrelevant as players. To do so is to become a hater.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
Ok look, staying in Coda A and Code S is way easier than getting in code A from code B. Let's say DRG and FD are both free, neither of them having a team. One is in code B having a huge potential of being a future GSL champion, one is already in code S but performing poorly and doesn't have a slightest chance of winning the whole thing, which one are you gonna choose??? The one with the more potential? yes? DRG? these RANDOM UNKNOWNS has way more values than those staying in code S due to their prior results but having a downhill perfomence.
The example of DRG is irrelevant since he is in fact on a team so ST can't pick him up. Even if he was a free agent, though, your assumption that he is more valuable than a code S player is highly questionable. No smart coach is going to assume that a code s player is destined to fall to code b and a code a player is destined to become a gsl champion, no matter who they are. It's not a smart way to play the odds in sc2. But again, DRG is an extreme and irrelevant example.
It's fine if you have a negative opinion of FD and tester's behavior outside the game, but it's simply incorrect to call them irrelevant as players. To do so is to become a hater.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
Ok look, staying in Coda A and Code S is way easier than getting in code A from code B. Let's say DRG and FD are both free, neither of them having a team. One is in code B having a huge potential of being a future GSL champion, one is already in code S but performing poorly and doesn't have a slightest chance of winning the whole thing, which one are you gonna choose??? The one with the more potential? yes? DRG? these RANDOM UNKNOWNS has way more values than those staying in code S due to their prior results but having a downhill perfomence.
The example of DRG is irrelevant since he is in fact on a team so ST can't pick him up. Even if he was a free agent, though, your assumption that he is more valuable than a code S player is highly questionable. No smart coach is going to assume that a code s player is destined to fall to code b and a code a player is destined to become a gsl champion, no matter who they are. It's not a smart way to play the odds in sc2. But again, DRG is an extreme and irrelevant example.
It's fine if you have a negative opinion of FD and tester's behavior outside the game, but it's simply incorrect to call them irrelevant as players. To do so is to become a hater.
why is it irrelevant, he's a perfect example of an upcoming players who can play on par with gsl champions = potential? please do give reasons why it is irrelevent. Talk about smart coach, let's say you have a player in code S (e.g. FD) who is actually very shit but is still in GSL due to the system that it is very hard to drop down, do you really want him to stay in your team techniquely?? since it is hard to drop down at the same time, hard to win, he's always a bottom code S player that will never get anywhere. While for a potential player (e.g.DRG), who has showed caliber of top koreans, just not lucky enough to get to code A, since code B is really 50/50 tbh. If he somehow manage in to code A (which will happen eventually which it did), he can player really good, because now he has a mark that he can rely on, like he just need to win the R32 to stay in code A. He can even win the whole code A (assume that he has the skills like DRG). Its just like in normal sports, old players usually got ditched at the end of their carriers no matter how good they still are, to be replaced by the younger players (e.g. current brazil team). My question to you is why is it not smart to destine on a player that have much more chances to be more successful than an old player that have proved all he has got but still not enough? Why is my example irrelevent? Please give evidence, don't just claim it is not smart by doing that.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
Ok look, staying in Coda A and Code S is way easier than getting in code A from code B. Let's say DRG and FD are both free, neither of them having a team. One is in code B having a huge potential of being a future GSL champion, one is already in code S but performing poorly and doesn't have a slightest chance of winning the whole thing, which one are you gonna choose??? The one with the more potential? yes? DRG? these RANDOM UNKNOWNS has way more values than those staying in code S due to their prior results but having a downhill perfomence.
The example of DRG is irrelevant since he is in fact on a team so ST can't pick him up. Even if he was a free agent, though, your assumption that he is more valuable than a code S player is highly questionable. No smart coach is going to assume that a code s player is destined to fall to code b and a code a player is destined to become a gsl champion, no matter who they are. It's not a smart way to play the odds in sc2. But again, DRG is an extreme and irrelevant example.
It's fine if you have a negative opinion of FD and tester's behavior outside the game, but it's simply incorrect to call them irrelevant as players. To do so is to become a hater.
You still can't grasp such a simple concept of "potential", a factor obviously we can't fully grasp unless we're in the Korean scene. Taking FD and Tester was due to marketing factor as well as close relations with Startale coach to begin with, FD and Tester both being somewhat old gamers. Players with potential are those that everyone within the scene talks about being able to achieve great things. According to your argument, Nestea's observation that certain players don't deserve to be in Code S is irrelevant. According to you, when MMA was ripping GSTL, but wasn't doing well in individual league means he was irrelevant (of which we know is not true by far, he later completely dominates in individual performance). According to you, player like Bomber should have been kicked off the team out of Startale months ago when everyone was talking about him as potential champion, but still failing to qualify for Code A was irrelevant, and was less worthy of an investment than someone say like Lyn whom people felt was at anytime ready to fall out of Code S and eventually B. Someone like theBestFou whom for a while lingered onto Code S and Code A was seen as falling out of the leagues at anytime by critics, but according to you, is worth high investment and "relevant"
You linger on to this concept of "someone who is in Code A or S already is relevant, is worthy investment". Your logic is so flawed in every field, that's synonymous with saying "let's invest in a failing company that's still staying afloat, let's not infest in small firms with potential to be as big as google or facebook".
"No smart coach is going to assume that a code S player is destined to fall to code b and a Code A player is destined to become a GSL champion"... once again, clearly you don't follow the sentiments of the people in the scene, with many expecting great things from specific players like Bomber, and I am sure coaches are well aware who and who is at high risk of falling out of Code A. I don't even understand your statement, no one's "assuming" things, it's called calculated assessments, not "assumptions".
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
You could not be more wrong. Ever hear of a team called SlayerS? Think they didn't have the chance to sign ANYONE they wanted in Korea and still signed "potential"?
Certain teams like SK just try and buy championships, real teams create champions.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
You could not be more wrong. Ever hear of a team called SlayerS? Think they didn't have the chance to sign ANYONE they wanted in Korea and still signed "potential"?
Certain teams like SK just try and buy championships, real teams create champions.
Exactly, we know now if Doodsmack ran a team for GSL, it would be a tub of shit, he'd just take any crap from Code A or S simply because they are from Code A or S, he measures players' qualities not by their performance, skills, mentality, he just looks at result.
You still can't grasp such a simple concept of "potential"...
I guess you can continue to repeat this exaggeration, just realize that it doesn't help you to sound reasonable and it borders on dishonesty. Since you apparently still haven't gleaned it from my argument, let me spell it out for you: from the perspective of a rational coach, subjective assessments of potential, while certainly important for new recruits, should in the case of established players be superceded by proven results (having achieved code A or code S). The marketing value of proven players is obvious, and if I'm not mistaken code A/code S status is also relevant to GSTL seeding.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
According to your argument, Nestea's observation that certain players don't deserve to be in Code S is irrelevant. According to you, when MMA was ripping GSTL, but wasn't doing well in individual league means he was irrelevant (of which we know is not true by far, he later completely dominates in individual performance). According to you, player like Bomber should have been kicked off the team out of Startale months ago...
All of these statements are caricatures of my argument, so I'm not even going to respond.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
You linger on to this concept of "someone who is in Code A or S already is relevant, is worthy investment". Your logic is so flawed in every field, that's synonymous with saying "let's invest in a failing company that's still staying afloat, let's not infest in small firms with potential to be as big as google or facebook".
Bad analogy. In order for this analogy to be applicable, the "failing company" would have to have better chances of succeeding than the small firms, since it's undeniable that players who are already in code S/code A have better chances than players in code B.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
"No smart coach is going to assume that a code S player is destined to fall to code b and a Code A player is destined to become a GSL champion"... once again, clearly you don't follow the sentiments of the people in the scene, with many expecting great things from specific players like Bomber, and I am sure coaches are well aware who and who is at high risk of falling out of Code A. I don't even understand your statement, no one's "assuming" things, it's called calculated assessments, not "assumptions".
Once again I come back to my point that, in terms of the value a player has to a professional team (marketing and otherwise), proven results supercede subjective notions of potential.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
Ok look, staying in Coda A and Code S is way easier than getting in code A from code B. Let's say DRG and FD are both free, neither of them having a team. One is in code B having a huge potential of being a future GSL champion, one is already in code S but performing poorly and doesn't have a slightest chance of winning the whole thing, which one are you gonna choose??? The one with the more potential? yes? DRG? these RANDOM UNKNOWNS has way more values than those staying in code S due to their prior results but having a downhill perfomence.
The example of DRG is irrelevant since he is in fact on a team so ST can't pick him up. Even if he was a free agent, though, your assumption that he is more valuable than a code S player is highly questionable. No smart coach is going to assume that a code s player is destined to fall to code b and a code a player is destined to become a gsl champion, no matter who they are. It's not a smart way to play the odds in sc2. But again, DRG is an extreme and irrelevant example.
It's fine if you have a negative opinion of FD and tester's behavior outside the game, but it's simply incorrect to call them irrelevant as players. To do so is to become a hater.
why is it irrelevant, he's a perfect example of an upcoming players who can play on par with gsl champions = potential? please do give reasons why it is irrelevent. Talk about smart coach, let's say you have a player in code S (e.g. FD) who is actually very shit but is still in GSL due to the system that it is very hard to drop down, do you really want him to stay in your team techniquely?? since it is hard to drop down at the same time, hard to win, he's always a bottom code S player that will never get anywhere. While for a potential player (e.g.DRG), who has showed caliber of top koreans, just not lucky enough to get to code A, since code B is really 50/50 tbh. If he somehow manage in to code A (which will happen eventually which it did), he can player really good, because now he has a mark that he can rely on, like he just need to win the R32 to stay in code A. He can even win the whole code A (assume that he has the skills like DRG). Its just like in normal sports, old players usually got ditched at the end of their carriers no matter how good they still are, to be replaced by the younger players (e.g. current brazil team). My question to you is why is it not smart to destine on a player that have much more chances to be more successful than an old player that have proved all he has got but still not enough? Why is my example irrelevent? Please give evidence, don't just claim it is not smart by doing that.
It's irrelevant because my argument concerns, as I said before, random unknowns, not players who are already on a team. DRG is already on a team, therefore his example is irrelevant to my argument. Remember, all I'm saying here is that it's incorrect to claim that FD and Tester are irrelevant. If you really think they're irrelevant, then you must think that random unknown recruits would hold more value to Startale than they do. Since DRG isn't a potential recruit, he doesn't apply here.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
You could not be more wrong. Ever hear of a team called SlayerS? Think they didn't have the chance to sign ANYONE they wanted in Korea and still signed "potential"?
Certain teams like SK just try and buy championships, real teams create champions.
Pure speculation. What makes you think players already in code A and code S didn't have potential to Slayers. And what makes you think any player already on a team would have gladly switched to Slayers? Because of Boxer?
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
You could not be more wrong. Ever hear of a team called SlayerS? Think they didn't have the chance to sign ANYONE they wanted in Korea and still signed "potential"?
Certain teams like SK just try and buy championships, real teams create champions.
Pure speculation. What makes you think players already in code A and code S didn't have potential to Slayers. And what makes you think any player already on a team would have gladly switched to Slayers? Because of Boxer?
Because I have yet to see them sign a Code A/S player (iirc).
You still can't grasp such a simple concept of "potential"...
I guess you can continue to repeat this exaggeration, just realize that it doesn't help you to sound reasonable and it borders on dishonesty. Since you apparently still haven't gleaned it from my argument, let me spell it out for you: from the perspective of a rational coach, subjective assessments of potential, while certainly important for new recruits, should in the case of established players be superceded by proven results (having achieved code A or code S). The marketing value of proven players is obvious, and if I'm not mistaken code A/code S status is also relevant to GSTL seeding.
According to your argument, Nestea's observation that certain players don't deserve to be in Code S is irrelevant. According to you, when MMA was ripping GSTL, but wasn't doing well in individual league means he was irrelevant (of which we know is not true by far, he later completely dominates in individual performance). According to you, player like Bomber should have been kicked off the team out of Startale months ago...
All of these statements are caricatures of my argument, so I'm not even going to respond.
You linger on to this concept of "someone who is in Code A or S already is relevant, is worthy investment". Your logic is so flawed in every field, that's synonymous with saying "let's invest in a failing company that's still staying afloat, let's not infest in small firms with potential to be as big as google or facebook".
Bad analogy. In order for this analogy to be applicable, the "failing company" would have to have better chances of succeeding than the small firms, since it's undeniable that players who are already in code S/code A have better chances than players in code B.
"No smart coach is going to assume that a code S player is destined to fall to code b and a Code A player is destined to become a GSL champion"... once again, clearly you don't follow the sentiments of the people in the scene, with many expecting great things from specific players like Bomber, and I am sure coaches are well aware who and who is at high risk of falling out of Code A. I don't even understand your statement, no one's "assuming" things, it's called calculated assessments, not "assumptions".
Once again I come back to my point that, in terms of the value a player has to a professional team (marketing and otherwise), proven results supercede subjective notions of potential.
Referring to the concept of "potential" as subjective is quite inaccurate. The failing company is not in the position of "doing better" than the smaller company, the investment is higher (higher pay to FD/Tester), higher maintenance whereas nurturing future players with prospect is cheaper and garners greater return, of course there is always a risk.
Once again, according to you, the assessment of a player's worth is based on rather or not they are in Code A or B already, you call all my analogies irrelevant because you have no argument against them. Your defense is : "All of these statements are caricatures of my argument", which basically means "i am rewording the same argument over and over again, i am right, i don't care what other people says".
At this point, arguing with you is pointless because you're just making the same point over and over again in different ways, deflecting counter-arguments, testimonies of professional players as well as good analogies with a simple "no, i am right" all for the sake of your tiny ego and pride.
If recruitment is based only on result, discounting all the other factors such as higher investment cost, as well as ignoring potential and real performance is just silly. You call "potential" subjective whereas it really isn't, people conclude that players like Bomber have "potential" not because they pull it out of their ass as you are trying to say, they don't subjectively go, "oh geesh, I THINK HE'S GOOD", the scene makes this judgement based on experiences from other top players. No top players places FD and Tester at the moment in that kind of category, their growing irrelevancy is quite clear. Not to mention we are now exposed to the truth that FD and Tester has poor work ethics, high maintenance. FD's performance continues to decline is in itself a proof of their growing irrelevancy.
I can guarantee you, any further replies you make will have no new counter-arguments, as i expect, just a repetition of one simple point "Result = everything, no such thing as potential". According to that one shitty argument of yours, it's pointless to even debate with you.
It's fine if you have a negative opinion of FD and tester's behavior outside the game, but it's simply incorrect to call them irrelevant as players. To do so is to become a hater.
Completely ignoring this entire situation, fruitdealer and tester have been performing lackluster in the last couple of months (especially fruitdealer) and it would take a LOT of dedication for them to even stay where they are right now. As has already been stated, they both simply lack that dedication, showing up 10 days in a month, whereas everyone on Korean teams trains 25+ days a month.
Tell me again, what's the point of PAYING a player that is on a downhill slope and will likely drop out of the GSL all together, does not help your other teammates practice by not showing up, which also demoralizes your entire team, and still demands the highest salary of all your players? Then look me straight in the eyes and tell me you'd take that player over a strong player with willpower and potential that requests not even a third of that players salary, just because that player is in Code A already?
Remember, out of nearly everyone in SlayerS exactly zero of them where in Code A/S a couple of months ago. You'd have to be one of the worst coaches ever to take a someone that's extremely lazy and underperforming over someone with potential and willpower because the former will never get any further and will not help your team as a whole get any further.
You still can't grasp such a simple concept of "potential"...
I guess you can continue to repeat this exaggeration, just realize that it doesn't help you to sound reasonable and it borders on dishonesty. Since you apparently still haven't gleaned it from my argument, let me spell it out for you: from the perspective of a rational coach, subjective assessments of potential, while certainly important for new recruits, should in the case of established players be superceded by proven results (having achieved code A or code S). The marketing value of proven players is obvious, and if I'm not mistaken code A/code S status is also relevant to GSTL seeding.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
According to your argument, Nestea's observation that certain players don't deserve to be in Code S is irrelevant. According to you, when MMA was ripping GSTL, but wasn't doing well in individual league means he was irrelevant (of which we know is not true by far, he later completely dominates in individual performance). According to you, player like Bomber should have been kicked off the team out of Startale months ago...
All of these statements are caricatures of my argument, so I'm not even going to respond.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
You linger on to this concept of "someone who is in Code A or S already is relevant, is worthy investment". Your logic is so flawed in every field, that's synonymous with saying "let's invest in a failing company that's still staying afloat, let's not infest in small firms with potential to be as big as google or facebook".
Bad analogy. In order for this analogy to be applicable, the "failing company" would have to have better chances of succeeding than the small firms, since it's undeniable that players who are already in code S/code A have better chances than players in code B.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
"No smart coach is going to assume that a code S player is destined to fall to code b and a Code A player is destined to become a GSL champion"... once again, clearly you don't follow the sentiments of the people in the scene, with many expecting great things from specific players like Bomber, and I am sure coaches are well aware who and who is at high risk of falling out of Code A. I don't even understand your statement, no one's "assuming" things, it's called calculated assessments, not "assumptions".
Once again I come back to my point that, in terms of the value a player has to a professional team (marketing and otherwise), proven results supercede subjective notions of potential.
Referring to the concept of "potential" as subjective is quite inaccurate. The failing company is not in the position of "doing better" than the smaller company, the investment is higher (higher pay to FD/Tester), higher maintenance whereas nurturing future players with prospect is cheaper and garners greater return, of course there is always a risk.
Once again, according to you, the assessment of a player's worth is based on rather or not they are in Code A or B already, you call all my analogies irrelevant because you have no argument against them. Your defense is : "All of these statements are caricatures of my argument", which basically means "i am rewording the same argument over and over again, i am right, i don't care what other people says".
At this point, arguing with you is pointless because you're just making the same point over and over again in different ways, deflecting counter-arguments, testimonies of professional players as well as good analogies with a simple "no, i am right" all for the sake of your tiny ego and pride.
If recruitment is based only on result, discounting all the other factors such as higher investment cost, as well as ignoring potential and real performance is just silly. You call "potential" subjective whereas it really isn't, people conclude that players like Bomber have "potential" not because they pull it out of their ass as you are trying to say, they don't subjectively go, "oh geesh, I THINK HE'S GOOD", the scene makes this judgement based on experiences from other top players. No top players places FD and Tester at the moment in that kind of category, their growing irrelevancy is quite clear. Not to mention we are now exposed to the truth that FD and Tester has poor work ethics, high maintenance. FD's performance continues to decline is in itself a proof of their growing irrelevancy.
I can guarantee you, any further replies you make will have no new counter-arguments, as i expect, just a repetition of one simple point "Result = everything, no such thing as potential". According to that one shitty argument of yours, it's pointless to even debate with you.
More exaggerations from you. "If recruitment is based only on result...people conclude that players like Bomber have "potential" not because they pull it out of their ass as you are trying to say...Result = everything, no such thing as potential." Ever heard of the phrase "straw man"? Bottom line is that your claim that FD and Tester are "irrelevant" is an exaggeration (seems to be a trend with you) and as such, incorrect. You say I just repeated myself, but in fact I brought up the points of marketing value and GSTL seeding, spelled out my assessment of potential vs proven results (which you clearly hadn't gotten since you claimed I didn't understand the definition of the word potential), among other things.
Maybe you should write a letter to Startale's sponsors and tell them to demand that the ST manager kick FD and Tester out (players whose matches are televised), and recruit some unknown up-and-comers to replace them. You give them the example of DRG as an up-and-comer, and explain how he lost in the Code A Ro16. See what they say.
You still can't grasp such a simple concept of "potential"...
I guess you can continue to repeat this exaggeration, just realize that it doesn't help you to sound reasonable and it borders on dishonesty. Since you apparently still haven't gleaned it from my argument, let me spell it out for you: from the perspective of a rational coach, subjective assessments of potential, while certainly important for new recruits, should in the case of established players be superceded by proven results (having achieved code A or code S). The marketing value of proven players is obvious, and if I'm not mistaken code A/code S status is also relevant to GSTL seeding.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
According to your argument, Nestea's observation that certain players don't deserve to be in Code S is irrelevant. According to you, when MMA was ripping GSTL, but wasn't doing well in individual league means he was irrelevant (of which we know is not true by far, he later completely dominates in individual performance). According to you, player like Bomber should have been kicked off the team out of Startale months ago...
All of these statements are caricatures of my argument, so I'm not even going to respond.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
You linger on to this concept of "someone who is in Code A or S already is relevant, is worthy investment". Your logic is so flawed in every field, that's synonymous with saying "let's invest in a failing company that's still staying afloat, let's not infest in small firms with potential to be as big as google or facebook".
Bad analogy. In order for this analogy to be applicable, the "failing company" would have to have better chances of succeeding than the small firms, since it's undeniable that players who are already in code S/code A have better chances than players in code B.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
"No smart coach is going to assume that a code S player is destined to fall to code b and a Code A player is destined to become a GSL champion"... once again, clearly you don't follow the sentiments of the people in the scene, with many expecting great things from specific players like Bomber, and I am sure coaches are well aware who and who is at high risk of falling out of Code A. I don't even understand your statement, no one's "assuming" things, it's called calculated assessments, not "assumptions".
Once again I come back to my point that, in terms of the value a player has to a professional team (marketing and otherwise), proven results supercede subjective notions of potential.
Referring to the concept of "potential" as subjective is quite inaccurate. The failing company is not in the position of "doing better" than the smaller company, the investment is higher (higher pay to FD/Tester), higher maintenance whereas nurturing future players with prospect is cheaper and garners greater return, of course there is always a risk.
Once again, according to you, the assessment of a player's worth is based on rather or not they are in Code A or B already, you call all my analogies irrelevant because you have no argument against them. Your defense is : "All of these statements are caricatures of my argument", which basically means "i am rewording the same argument over and over again, i am right, i don't care what other people says".
At this point, arguing with you is pointless because you're just making the same point over and over again in different ways, deflecting counter-arguments, testimonies of professional players as well as good analogies with a simple "no, i am right" all for the sake of your tiny ego and pride.
If recruitment is based only on result, discounting all the other factors such as higher investment cost, as well as ignoring potential and real performance is just silly. You call "potential" subjective whereas it really isn't, people conclude that players like Bomber have "potential" not because they pull it out of their ass as you are trying to say, they don't subjectively go, "oh geesh, I THINK HE'S GOOD", the scene makes this judgement based on experiences from other top players. No top players places FD and Tester at the moment in that kind of category, their growing irrelevancy is quite clear. Not to mention we are now exposed to the truth that FD and Tester has poor work ethics, high maintenance. FD's performance continues to decline is in itself a proof of their growing irrelevancy.
I can guarantee you, any further replies you make will have no new counter-arguments, as i expect, just a repetition of one simple point "Result = everything, no such thing as potential". According to that one shitty argument of yours, it's pointless to even debate with you.
More exaggerations from you. "If recruitment is based only on result...people conclude that players like Bomber have "potential" not because they pull it out of their ass as you are trying to say...Result = everything, no such thing as potential." Ever heard of the phrase "straw man"? Bottom line is that your claim that FD and Tester are "irrelevant" is an exaggeration (seems to be a trend with you) and as such, incorrect. You say I just repeated myself, but in fact I brought up the points of marketing value and GSTL seeding, spelled out my assessment of potential vs proven results (which you clearly hadn't gotten since you claimed I didn't understand the definition of the word potential), among other things.
Maybe you should write a letter to Startale's sponsors and tell them to demand that the ST manager kick FD and Tester out (players whose matches are televised), and recruit some unknown up-and-comers to replace them. You give them the example of DRG as an up-and-comer, and explain how he lost in the Code A Ro16. See what they say.
Another attempt at twisting people's words, i guess you do this all the time. And perhaps you should write a letter to Slayers, and criticize them for taking up and coming players, give them your theory of "apparent results", maybe they'll start begging anyone from Code A and Code S who is willing, to join Slayers. I don't know how many times it takes to reiterate your ape-minded point "duhhh... he in code A, he must be better, i must ignore trend, i just look at current state, trends means nothing, they are subjective.. duhhhh". Also, I love how you consistently subtly ignore the fact that Tester and FD are now a bad brand considering their exposed lies and poor working habit, now, all you can point out is "they are in code a and s, they are relevant, they are valuable"
I guess FD and Tester joined the right team. Two morally questionable players joining a team of cocky players who can't back their talk with their walk (ie. ace) and only relies on Bomber. When their coach talked crap about NSheosho and then subsequently getting owned by them just illustrates how cocky they are and they are definitely punching way above their weight relying on 1 player.
On August 10 2011 02:50 FXOpen wrote: sc2con is just a new start up form of kespa.
Even though they have little/no substance, they are already known to blackmail teams into fearing them....
I personally have little/no respect for the organisation until they clean up their act. Including the ST coach, and junho (I think thats how you spell it).
They act like supremicists trying to control everything in the old ways of korea. Which evidently, no longer seems to work in a global market.
But that doesn't phase me, thats a cultural thing. Its the blackmail tactics, disregard for team contracts and insults to players that I think should worry people.
Its due for a serious overhaul, and a long hard look in the mirror.
Care to share some specifics?
Look Dan, I get it. You don't like Lee's character. It makes sense considering he's the complete opposite of you and me. We're both "loud-mouths" who aren't afraid of speaking our minds for those who aren't aware.
Open and Boss don't owe an explanation to anybody.
However, there is one thing I would like to snag in the butt: the bench conspiracy. I think FXOBoss said it best:
On July 15 2011 15:41 FXOpen wrote:
...
GOM Studio experience. I love GOM, I really do, well.. I love most of GOM. (Hi John). And they certainly have done the best for us, and helped us be as comfortable as possible. I have huge thanks to them and I owe them in some way. Without them this all wouldnt happen. But now its time to get critical.
Firstly, THE FLAMEGUNS... What the hell are you doing making people walk between fire? I almost got burned numerous times, and I think a bunch of other people almost got burned also. I doubt insurance covers that I think it was TT1 who had an ear miss with one of them during Korea vs the world?) Its only a matter of time before someone gets hurt from them.
Secondly, The team Bench.
The team bench is a bit dangerous. When we sit down, we can almost move the whole thing with one butt movement. If it collapses, i can see someone getting impaled with timber. Its dangerous.
Have you sat on the benches GOMTV provides? Have you noticed how the players barely move while they're on them? I've heard from several sources that those benches are rickety as fuck and the players are timid on them. Having more players on it won't help the problem.
To further my point, remember when IdrA had to sit in the crowd when he was on CJ Entus? Yeah, you earn your spot on the bench. It is no different. Same shit when you were AMD too man. It's status and Lee wants his players to earn the right to sit on it.
You still can't grasp such a simple concept of "potential"...
I guess you can continue to repeat this exaggeration, just realize that it doesn't help you to sound reasonable and it borders on dishonesty. Since you apparently still haven't gleaned it from my argument, let me spell it out for you: from the perspective of a rational coach, subjective assessments of potential, while certainly important for new recruits, should in the case of established players be superceded by proven results (having achieved code A or code S). The marketing value of proven players is obvious, and if I'm not mistaken code A/code S status is also relevant to GSTL seeding.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
According to your argument, Nestea's observation that certain players don't deserve to be in Code S is irrelevant. According to you, when MMA was ripping GSTL, but wasn't doing well in individual league means he was irrelevant (of which we know is not true by far, he later completely dominates in individual performance). According to you, player like Bomber should have been kicked off the team out of Startale months ago...
All of these statements are caricatures of my argument, so I'm not even going to respond.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
You linger on to this concept of "someone who is in Code A or S already is relevant, is worthy investment". Your logic is so flawed in every field, that's synonymous with saying "let's invest in a failing company that's still staying afloat, let's not infest in small firms with potential to be as big as google or facebook".
Bad analogy. In order for this analogy to be applicable, the "failing company" would have to have better chances of succeeding than the small firms, since it's undeniable that players who are already in code S/code A have better chances than players in code B.
On August 12 2011 04:41 MildSeven wrote:
"No smart coach is going to assume that a code S player is destined to fall to code b and a Code A player is destined to become a GSL champion"... once again, clearly you don't follow the sentiments of the people in the scene, with many expecting great things from specific players like Bomber, and I am sure coaches are well aware who and who is at high risk of falling out of Code A. I don't even understand your statement, no one's "assuming" things, it's called calculated assessments, not "assumptions".
Once again I come back to my point that, in terms of the value a player has to a professional team (marketing and otherwise), proven results supercede subjective notions of potential.
Referring to the concept of "potential" as subjective is quite inaccurate. The failing company is not in the position of "doing better" than the smaller company, the investment is higher (higher pay to FD/Tester), higher maintenance whereas nurturing future players with prospect is cheaper and garners greater return, of course there is always a risk.
Once again, according to you, the assessment of a player's worth is based on rather or not they are in Code A or B already, you call all my analogies irrelevant because you have no argument against them. Your defense is : "All of these statements are caricatures of my argument", which basically means "i am rewording the same argument over and over again, i am right, i don't care what other people says".
At this point, arguing with you is pointless because you're just making the same point over and over again in different ways, deflecting counter-arguments, testimonies of professional players as well as good analogies with a simple "no, i am right" all for the sake of your tiny ego and pride.
If recruitment is based only on result, discounting all the other factors such as higher investment cost, as well as ignoring potential and real performance is just silly. You call "potential" subjective whereas it really isn't, people conclude that players like Bomber have "potential" not because they pull it out of their ass as you are trying to say, they don't subjectively go, "oh geesh, I THINK HE'S GOOD", the scene makes this judgement based on experiences from other top players. No top players places FD and Tester at the moment in that kind of category, their growing irrelevancy is quite clear. Not to mention we are now exposed to the truth that FD and Tester has poor work ethics, high maintenance. FD's performance continues to decline is in itself a proof of their growing irrelevancy.
I can guarantee you, any further replies you make will have no new counter-arguments, as i expect, just a repetition of one simple point "Result = everything, no such thing as potential". According to that one shitty argument of yours, it's pointless to even debate with you.
More exaggerations from you. "If recruitment is based only on result...people conclude that players like Bomber have "potential" not because they pull it out of their ass as you are trying to say...Result = everything, no such thing as potential." Ever heard of the phrase "straw man"? Bottom line is that your claim that FD and Tester are "irrelevant" is an exaggeration (seems to be a trend with you) and as such, incorrect. You say I just repeated myself, but in fact I brought up the points of marketing value and GSTL seeding, spelled out my assessment of potential vs proven results (which you clearly hadn't gotten since you claimed I didn't understand the definition of the word potential), among other things.
Maybe you should write a letter to Startale's sponsors and tell them to demand that the ST manager kick FD and Tester out (players whose matches are televised), and recruit some unknown up-and-comers to replace them. You give them the example of DRG as an up-and-comer, and explain how he lost in the Code A Ro16. See what they say.
Another attempt at twisting people's words, i guess you do this all the time. And perhaps you should write a letter to Slayers, and criticize them for taking up and coming players, give them your theory of "apparent results", maybe they'll start begging anyone from Code A and Code S who is willing, to join Slayers. I don't know how many times it takes to reiterate your ape-minded point "duhhh... he in code A, he must be better, i must ignore trend, i just look at current state, trends means nothing, they are subjective.. duhhhh". Also, I love how you consistently subtly ignore the fact that Tester and FD are now a bad brand considering their exposed lies and poor working habit, now, all you can point out is "they are in code a and s, they are relevant, they are valuable"
lol, your retorts are less than smart buddy. Normally I wouldn't say that, but it's just true. Let me know when you're willing to address my specific and substantive points (including marketing value/GSTL seeding, the inherent difficulty of gaining Code A status, etc) instead of claiming that I'm just repeating generalities. Otherwise I'm not going to bring myself down to your level. It would be too frustrating.
EDIT: Lol I see you were temp banned for a personal attack in another thread. Somehow that's not surprising.
On August 09 2011 22:16 akalarry wrote: i don't even know why startale picked up fd or tester. they've been irrelevant since as long as i can remember, and their attitude towards the game (the reason they left ogs) would make them less than desired. maybe startale thought they could ride on the marketing of fd's season 1 win 12 months ago? no fucking clue
I agree, they have been irrelevant, and i have never once been impressed by either of their play. FD dropped to Code A which makes perfect sense, i was really surprised he even won against maru to stay in code A.
Tester lingers on to Code S always through well-thought-out two base plays, but this guy will never ever be a champion, can't see a glimpse of that potential in him.
Yeah what team would want players who are in Code A and Code S? Those guys are irrelevant! Startale should replace them with random unknowns.
I'll tell you what kind of team would want players with POTENTIAL than two soon-to-be irrelevant code A and S players - Slayers would.
Right because players with potential have a better chance of getting into code A and CODE S (!!!) than two players who are already there have of staying.
Oh wait...
potential has nothing to do with whether or not you're already in, i guess you still can't comprehend the definition of potential. According to your silly logic, every player in Code S and Code A deserves to be where they are in terms of skills and potential, according to your logic, results and skills are perfectly parrallel. Is that what you're saying?
I'm just being realistic and saying that if a team has an opportunity to get players who are already in Code A and Code S they will obviously jump on it. These teams also know that players with "potential" unfortunately still face long odds of making Code A, let alone Code S. Players who are already in Code A and Code S are far from irrelevant, to claim otherwise is just not a well thought-out statement.
And to claim that I don't know the definition of potential...lol I love the way people make their arguments on the internet.
Ok look, staying in Coda A and Code S is way easier than getting in code A from code B. Let's say DRG and FD are both free, neither of them having a team. One is in code B having a huge potential of being a future GSL champion, one is already in code S but performing poorly and doesn't have a slightest chance of winning the whole thing, which one are you gonna choose??? The one with the more potential? yes? DRG? these RANDOM UNKNOWNS has way more values than those staying in code S due to their prior results but having a downhill perfomence.
The example of DRG is irrelevant since he is in fact on a team so ST can't pick him up. Even if he was a free agent, though, your assumption that he is more valuable than a code S player is highly questionable. No smart coach is going to assume that a code s player is destined to fall to code b and a code a player is destined to become a gsl champion, no matter who they are. It's not a smart way to play the odds in sc2. But again, DRG is an extreme and irrelevant example.
It's fine if you have a negative opinion of FD and tester's behavior outside the game, but it's simply incorrect to call them irrelevant as players. To do so is to become a hater.
You still can't grasp such a simple concept of "potential", a factor obviously we can't fully grasp unless we're in the Korean scene. Taking FD and Tester was due to marketing factor as well as close relations with Startale coach to begin with, FD and Tester both being somewhat old gamers. Players with potential are those that everyone within the scene talks about being able to achieve great things. According to your argument, Nestea's observation that certain players don't deserve to be in Code S is irrelevant. According to you, when MMA was ripping GSTL, but wasn't doing well in individual league means he was irrelevant (of which we know is not true by far, he later completely dominates in individual performance). According to you, player like Bomber should have been kicked off the team out of Startale months ago when everyone was talking about him as potential champion, but still failing to qualify for Code A was irrelevant, and was less worthy of an investment than someone say like Lyn whom people felt was at anytime ready to fall out of Code S and eventually B. Someone like theBestFou whom for a while lingered onto Code S and Code A was seen as falling out of the leagues at anytime by critics, but according to you, is worth high investment and "relevant"
You linger on to this concept of "someone who is in Code A or S already is relevant, is worthy investment". Your logic is so flawed in every field, that's synonymous with saying "let's invest in a failing company that's still staying afloat, let's not infest in small firms with potential to be as big as google or facebook".
"No smart coach is going to assume that a code S player is destined to fall to code b and a Code A player is destined to become a GSL champion"... once again, clearly you don't follow the sentiments of the people in the scene, with many expecting great things from specific players like Bomber, and I am sure coaches are well aware who and who is at high risk of falling out of Code A. I don't even understand your statement, no one's "assuming" things, it's called calculated assessments, not "assumptions".
Potential doesn't mean guarantees of fulfillment. You trying to make it guaranteed googles/facebooks in "disguise" is you going too far, too soon. Until someone fulfills/fails it, it can only be an assumption of fulfillment/failure.
A big company that stays afloat is not a failure. A small company with potential is not a success. Your logic is flawed and forced to make your point valid.
FD and Tester already fulfilled this promise, and it is fully understandable that they are being invested in. Investing in someone with potential involves risks of non-fulfillment. Tester just had his best season in SC2 after being snatched up by ST.
TheBest is someone who does have potential according behind the scene, but continues to fail to show it on TV. Seed and Yonghwa are players with great potential, but still fails to qualify to Code A.
Whether teams wants to invest in players having already fulfilled as promised, or in someone with great potential who hasn't, is individual. Snatching teamless players that already are in Code S, gives points to play in GSTL.
Had a feeling Coach Lee was being taken advantage of after his bad publicity with EG. I mean, we all know that the accusations from FD and Tester came up after the negative posts revolving EG and TSL and FD and Tester both left WELL before that, so there would have been no reason to wait so long to bring up the situation except to take advantage of that confusion and Coach Lee's public image. But it becomes difficult to 100% discern who's lying and who's not because EVERYONE drops a post about the other party being a little overly aggressive in their dealings while the other went through all the proper routes and was a victim of someone jumping the gun.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pimrl.jpg)
