| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
The interview I think is much more interesting as a center piece on Mr. Bitter's rise as a caster. I'm pretty satisfied with the success he's seen given his great casting skills. Also: How many times are we going to read "Foreigners suck Koreans are better". Because every time the answer is always the same: "Foreigners needs to work get practice houses blah blah blah". So tired of reading it. | ||
|
Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:01 magnaflow wrote: I have to assume that foreign players are only practicing a couple hours a day at the most. But if i'm wrong and they do practice more then that then we are doomed. As it has been pointed out many times before, it's all about the quality of practice and even more importantly the mindset and fitness during practice. Everyone who doesn't go to Korea to train and compete is pretty much doomed in the long run. Even if foreign progamer houses get set up, I doubt they're going to have the same level of iron discipline and dedication as Korean ones do. | ||
|
Blennd
United States266 Posts
| ||
|
skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:04 Skwid1g wrote: Most of the Koreans that switch(ed) also have better mechanics and more experience from BW. And very few A-teamers have switched at all, so just putting in an equal amount of practice isn't going to close the skill gap quickly. That's strange to be honest. That's basically saying you want competition to die down and eventually have people lose interest in the game. No I want the competition to be the best not having joke of players in pool play in MLG that stay in for 3 seasons... I'm not gonna name the players obviously. I think players should at least go to Korea for at least a month try out for GSL and not complain the money isn't good enough... The money isn't good enough because they are pretty much saying they have no chance of winning a tournament such as GSL. | ||
|
Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
| ||
|
Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:02 sagefreke wrote: I won't be surprised after all the expansions comes out that we see a huge competitive gaming shift to China and suddenly all the Chinese players will begin to dominate SC2. Sen is just the beginning. Sen's Taiwanese. He's not actively involved in the Chinese scene per say. But yes, I can imagine Chinese players doing very well once they get invitations because their infrastructure is similar to the Korean SC2 scene, or more specifically, teams like ZeNeX and NsHoSeo (relatively poor wages + long hours). They're thirsty for wins. | ||
|
skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:10 Oktyabr wrote: Sen's Taiwanese. He's not actively involved in the Chinese scene per say. But yes, I can imagine Chinese players doing very well once they get invitations because their infrastructure is similar to the Korean SC2 scene, or more specifically, teams like ZeNeX and NsHoSeo (relatively poor wages + long hours). They're thirsty for wins. I am impressed with ZeNEX at the beginning of the new GSL season (January) I thought this team didn't even exist anymore or was the worst team in the scene. But now they recruited some good players or became better? Now they impress me with each tournament they qualify for... Puzzle is one of my favorite streamers now. | ||
|
RinconH
United States512 Posts
Even though the Koreans don't speak English, they are still charismatic/charming in their own way and translations are available enough. It will probably hurt sponsorship though since Western companies will want to have Western "stars" to promote their products. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
Then, when that happens, we'll see an influx of Brood War pros come in out of nowhere and just make the skill gap return once more. Korea has a decade head start on North America and Europe. It's going to take years before you can say that they're very close/even to the skill level of the best Koreans. | ||
|
Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:10 Chairman Ray wrote: Foreigners need to get better looking as well. Jinro and Tyler are pretty decent <3333. | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:06 Gamegene wrote: Sigh, what a sensationalist title. The interview I think is much more interesting as a center piece on Mr. Bitter's rise as a caster. I'm pretty satisfied with the success he's seen given his great casting skills. Also: How many times are we going to read "Foreigners suck Koreans are better". Because every time the answer is always the same: "Foreigners needs to work get practice houses blah blah blah". So tired of reading it. It'll probably stay there until Foreigners get better. The rise of foreigners is proving to be more difficult because they're not winning any high-tier placements in tournaments. Less to show, less achievements, less money in the making and that may drop motivation or players. | ||
|
Iberville
Canada207 Posts
I'd like to hear about any other sport or job that demands so much work in order to perform properly. The amount of practice needed and the cramped environment team houses give to players is setting back labour advances back to the 19th century. We're basically sweatshopping gamers, and everyone here thinks that's great and it's necessary. Of course, the Korean gamers are great, of course, they're playing a game (it's not work if it's all play, right?), but few seems to think the expected hours to put in to the craft is unreasonable. I'm still appalled that people dream of progaming houses where people don't have beds, the living room is basically a room filled with 12-25 computers with barely any room to move, someone doing your cooking and cleaning, and you melt away doing nothing but gaming for hours and hours on end. Is that discipline? If you want to look at it that way. I do not feel it's discipline. I feel it's exploiting human beings by telling them that they won't be able to live their "dream" unless they live in those conditions. Sounds great, but remember, they're young, they don't have families, they feel privileged. If they do found a family, they generally will move out of a gaming house and change environments which will hurt their game play and risk them getting ejected from a team. In most countries, you can go to court pleading human rights arguments when you lose your job because you found a family. Some might argue that it's normal, an athletes career is short, and once he's done he's done. Sure, but MLB, NHL, NFL, NBA all have unions for awhile now protecting players. There are so many stories in history of hockey players with great talent being exploited before the union came around. The wages they now make today is not something I wish to discuss, merely the fact that a pre-union major sports league exploited its players before. Look around you. Lower wages, rising inflation, increasing discrepancy between the rich and the poor, attacks against unions, contracted work in public and private sectors, loss of job security (correct me if I'm wrong, but IdrA basically has high school education, once we've run him to the ground, no matter the money he has now, the lifestyle might crush any opportunity for reinsertion into the labour market with a decent wage. Who knows) in many fields, pension cuts to fund corporate debt, decreased government spending, austerity plans, rising personal credit defaulting, and so much more; I have a hard time believing that the global labour market is going the right direction. Pro gaming is no different. I'd rather see regulation on this line of work. Can you imagine working out 12 hours a days to become a better baseball/hockey/football/soccer player? Hopefully we'll get around to having this type of discussion and see what is reasonable and what is unreasonable in a global spectrum with regards to "professional" gaming. Keyword here is professional. For all these reasons and many more, I feel very strongly against applying a "Korean work ethic" in the West. It's bringing us centuries back in terms of labour rights and it's heading the wrong direction, I believe. It's also another reason why I'll always support non-korean gamers instead of calling them lazy or unskilled. I don't mind. I want to watch competitive gaming in West, I'll accept the skill level they provide. I don't feel it's fair to compare, most notably due to cultural differences. I apologize if this post offends anyone in any way. I strongly feel, however, that it's a point that needs to be explored further to have a discussion about this subject. TL;DR : Stop being lazy and read it. | ||
|
K_Dilkington
Sweden449 Posts
| ||
|
Reere
Taiwan127 Posts
| ||
|
rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:04 Skwid1g wrote: Most of the Koreans that switch(ed) also have better mechanics and more experience from BW. And very few A-teamers have switched at all, so just putting in an equal amount of practice isn't going to close the skill gap quickly. That's strange to be honest. That's basically saying you want competition to die down and eventually have people lose interest in the game. If you lose interest in the game because koreans dominate it, then you shouldn't be playing this game. | ||
|
Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:13 skrzmark wrote: I am impressed with ZeNEX at the beginning of the new GSL season (January) I thought this team didn't even exist anymore or was the worst team in the scene. But now they recruited some good players or became better? Now they impress me with each tournament they qualify for... Puzzle is one of my favorite streamers now. Puzzle's just one of the beasts in there. There's Coca that made a decent run in July, there's Byun that made the semi's, and there's Kyrix that has been around Code S for quite some time. I just feel that it's a pity that they don't seem to have any sponsors yet. | ||
|
Zhou
United States832 Posts
I really hope that in the next event, the foreigners will be able to change the way they practice and perform better in the future. As for the person who had the really long post, I think you're looking at the way they practice the wrong way. Personally, IF western players do want to get better through practice, I think they should think about practicing the way Koreans do. If it doesn't appeal to them, then that's that. There isn't any sort of pressure at the moment in western culture to do their best at the moment, and that could go the same for Koreans in most cases. But if they want to perform well, then they do. Do you think that Koreans practicing 10~14 hours a day hate what they do? Unless they put on a good poker face, I'd say most of them enjoy what they do and want to perform better, and it seems to pay off. | ||
|
Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On August 07 2011 01:04 Chargelot wrote: You know, when America was new, the British were dominating. What is true now, at this very moment, is not necessarily true in 10 years. That applies to everything. That is true but just because one thing changes doesn't mean something that is completely unrelated has to change in the same way. Try to consider context. | ||
|
Sgonzo
Canada202 Posts
| ||
|
Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:35 Sgonzo wrote: the difference between foreign and korean players has nothing to do with time spent practicing ala work ethic, it is a straight difference is mathematic tactics, the koreans attempt to move out early and micro a win off their enemy, when playing foreigners this appears to simply be "cheese" whereas the foreign players choose a more turn-based style of strategy play get an army before you move out and ability to re-max.... Then why does every pro player believe the biggest difference is time spent working? Are you saying you are more knowledgable of sc2 than all of them? Than Koreans? | ||
| ||
|
|
WardiTV Invitational
ByuN vs Percival
Cure vs Classic
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
IdrA vs MC
Replay Cast
Afreeca Starleague
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
Monday Night Weeklies
Afreeca Starleague
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
