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[G] Holding Down Hotkeys - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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madstarcraft
Profile Joined May 2011
United States103 Posts
July 23 2011 04:57 GMT
#41
This is not usable for terran due to the fact that you may end up queuing units
For example, u have 100 minerals. holding down a on the rax will que u up 2 marines.
Terran is OP deal with it!
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 05:07:17
July 23 2011 05:06 GMT
#42
I hold down hotkeys when I warp in a bunch of stalkers or zealots, that's about it. I don't ever do it for FF's, I think this leads to sloppiness and wasted energy in my case. But I recall blizzard was going to remove this feature in one of the patches, but there was a (mostly zerg) QQ fest and it never got implemented or got reverted.
:)
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
July 23 2011 06:18 GMT
#43
Most everybody knows about this, it goes at the repeat rate that you have set on your computer. I use it for making banelings/ling spamming/drone spamming. I prefer to tap for roaches/mutas/hydras though (or if I dont plan on using all the larvae on drones).
Hatefiend
Profile Joined August 2010
United States127 Posts
July 23 2011 10:25 GMT
#44
On July 23 2011 13:48 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:15 Hatefiend wrote:
On July 23 2011 11:02 Xapti wrote:
I am fully aware of holding down hotkeys (especially as a zerg player), but like the OP said, I don't know why some high level players (particularly zergs) decide to spam tapping a production key instead of holding it down.

That said, I'd also like to clairify something the OP said, that holding a key down is considered a continual action that will respond ASAP. While it can be very insignificant, it is not really a continual thing as far as I understand, but a specific (and variable) polling rate. This polling rate can be very fast, but not as fast as digitally possible, which would be a more proper use of continuous.
SC2 uses the operating system's built-in repeat-delay and repeat-frequency values for repeating a key once it's held down.

One thing blizzard did do somewhat recently though I think, was to consider holding down a hotkey as only 1 action (for in-game APM reporting purposes) even if it did multiple of the same action. I don't know this for sure, but that's what I thought happened in a patch a while back.

Starcraft 2 as a program responds to holding faster than a human can physically press the button repeatedly. If you mashed your keys as fast as you possibly could, even to the point of breaking your keyboard, it would still not be faster.
I'm not disagreeing with you. You also didn't seem to be addressing what I said.

• I am aware that at maximum repeat speed, the frequency the key-press command is issued is faster than humanly possible when held down than if physically pressed repeatedly. (Hence why I said I don't know why some pros still spam pressing)

• SC2 uses the operating system's repeat delay and repeat-start delay times, which can be set to faster or slower speeds. At a slower speed, a human could type faster than it repeats.

• The Operating system's minimum repeat delay and repeat-start delay times are NOT continuous in the sense that they have distinct delays between simulated presses which are LARGER than the OS can actually do. Both windows and Mac have a 31 key repeat frequency maximum as far as I know, which is about 30ms delay. Using different software and/or hardware, that value can be at least twice as fast, or even 3x as fast, without simulation.

Ah okay. I was unaware of that last bullet point.
Pred8oar
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany281 Posts
July 23 2011 11:44 GMT
#45
I thought everyone knew this by now
vicpro
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada18 Posts
July 23 2011 23:54 GMT
#46
Can we get a link for this thing "Xapti" talked about? (to accelerate the frequency)
lolwut?
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
July 24 2011 00:09 GMT
#47
There's a delay when you hold a button down between the 1st and 2nd "action". Like if you hold down z to make lings ur first larva will be used to make 1 ling, then there will be a short delay, then the rest of ur larva will be used up.

Sure, if ur just waiting for larva to pop then u can hold the key down in preparation but if it already popped and u wanna make drones it can be faster to tap because of the delay between the first action and the rest of them.

There's a setting in windows that allows you to minimize the delay (Control Panel> Keyboard > Repeat Delay >set it to shortest) but it can just cause more problems because it becomes hard to single tap. You might wanna make a single ultra for example so you tap the U key but you make 5 of them! So there's a reason the delay is there in the first place.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
July 24 2011 01:29 GMT
#48
On July 23 2011 09:45 arkedos wrote:
wasn't there a patch in which blizzard fixed this kind of mechanic so you had to press the hotkey one by one again ?


People whines about that and got cancelled
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-24 01:44:48
July 24 2011 01:38 GMT
#49
Because I use a Das Keyboard, when I hold a key down, multiple actions are sent to the game.

If I hold down 6 keys, my APM goes to 9600.

With my old keyboard, this did not happen.

Enjoy.

+ Show Spoiler +


8k APM, the easy way!
twitch.tv/medrea
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3546 Posts
July 24 2011 01:57 GMT
#50
If you are making a giant round of units than obviously hold it down, but suppose you are making them one at a time in the midgame as soon as you get the money, while scrolling around the map and doing other stuff. Because of the .5 s delay you get from holding them down, a lot of the time in the midgame this is irrelevant.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
July 24 2011 02:06 GMT
#51
I hold down D while clicking drone with the mouse. I should make a guide!
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Lewan72
Profile Joined April 2011
United States381 Posts
July 24 2011 02:11 GMT
#52
So u want to make 3 drones.
You use the hold method- oops, you made 4 drones. Next time you try it oops you make 2 drones
In my opinion its more accurate to tap instead of hold even if holding decreases time by a few milliseconds
MC / Hero / MMA / Bomber / Coca / Suppy
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
July 24 2011 04:25 GMT
#53
On July 24 2011 10:38 Medrea wrote:
Because I use a Das Keyboard, when I hold a key down, multiple actions are sent to the game.

If I hold down 6 keys, my APM goes to 9600.

With my old keyboard, this did not happen.

Enjoy.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4untTxgmreQ


8k APM, the easy way!

I own a das keyboard as well, I imagine youre not using it on a PS/2 port and instead on a USB port?
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
July 24 2011 04:29 GMT
#54
On July 24 2011 13:25 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2011 10:38 Medrea wrote:
Because I use a Das Keyboard, when I hold a key down, multiple actions are sent to the game.

If I hold down 6 keys, my APM goes to 9600.

With my old keyboard, this did not happen.

Enjoy.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4untTxgmreQ


8k APM, the easy way!

I own a das keyboard as well, I imagine youre not using it on a PS/2 port and instead on a USB port?

Pretty sure if you use a USB port you have a maximum of 2-3 keys able to be pressed at the same time.
lalala
djcube
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States985 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-24 04:37:28
July 24 2011 04:37 GMT
#55
Don't mean to derail, but most decent mech keyboards have 6 key rollover over USB and n-kro over PS/2.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
July 24 2011 05:03 GMT
#56
On July 24 2011 13:29 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2011 13:25 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On July 24 2011 10:38 Medrea wrote:
Because I use a Das Keyboard, when I hold a key down, multiple actions are sent to the game.

If I hold down 6 keys, my APM goes to 9600.

With my old keyboard, this did not happen.

Enjoy.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4untTxgmreQ


8k APM, the easy way!

I own a das keyboard as well, I imagine youre not using it on a PS/2 port and instead on a USB port?

Pretty sure if you use a USB port you have a maximum of 2-3 keys able to be pressed at the same time.

USB is 6kro
PS/2 is nkro

When I was using my das on USB, it would repeat the last 6 keys I hit if I hit them at nearly the same time. I use it on the PS/2 port now and it will only repeat the very last key that I hit no matter how closely I try to hit them. If I hit a ton of keys at the same time they all go through, but the very last one struck is the only repeating one.

Either that means my das doesnt work right, or thats how they all work. This is the only mechanical keyboard I have owned so I dunno.
Angry_Fetus
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada444 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-24 05:09:30
July 24 2011 05:09 GMT
#57
I really only see this useful for casting spells (FF/fungal/storm/infested terrans etc) It just isn't worth making a mistake when building units. I sometimes hold down my R/Z key when I'm going to spend my entire bank on them, but that's about it. Very situational.
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
July 24 2011 05:09 GMT
#58
The last patch's "Artificially increasing APM" thing makes it so now they don't register as separate actions, correct?
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
Tortious_Tortoise
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States944 Posts
July 24 2011 05:20 GMT
#59
I actually knew this back when I was in bronze. You talk about the pro's "silly little tricks" to improve mining efficiency-- this is one of those little tricks. Holding will not matter until high masters or gm play, and even then, it will only decide 1/1000 games.
Treating eSports as a social science since 2011; Credo: "The system is never wrong"-- Day9 Daily #400 Part 3
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
July 24 2011 05:23 GMT
#60
On July 23 2011 10:24 MonkSEA wrote:
I tap. I don't want to accidentally make all roaches, or all zerglings. It's just a habit even if I do want to make them all roaches or zerglings.

It's down to player preference. It's not going to change you from masters to grandmasters.


things like this will determine whether you are top 10 grandmasters, or top 15 gradmasters.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
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