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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. |
On July 22 2011 06:46 Kodiakheffelump wrote:
This needs to be sorted out. There is no reason at all a female player cannot match a male player in SC2. The survival of the game long term depends on the level of inclusiveness it obtains this is an extremely positive step slayers has taken, and this harassment is beyond the pale. In all honesty anyone doing this is directly damaging the e-sports scene.
wow just read this after i'd posted, you worded my thoughts far better than i could!
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Even though I realize it might be difficult, try to remember that the people being this vile are usually a vocal majority at the very least in the foreign community (I can only assume) and that most of us support both SlayerS_Eve and the whole SlayerS team. I hope that she will grow as a player and pave the way for fellow female professionals, and Lim Yo Hwan will always be awesome no matter what!
SlayerS Hwaiting!
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On July 22 2011 06:56 nalgene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:28 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On July 22 2011 06:12 cz wrote:On July 22 2011 05:59 carloselcoco wrote:
Everyone who is mad because Jessica selected Eve must be gay!
Who does not want to see female pro-gamers!! 0.o
I am loving the initiative and people should stop flaming that she was only selected because she was a girl. Why? Because Jessica said it herself that it was because she was a girl! Jessica wants to see women in SC2 and so do I! So, unless you are gay, you should stop complaining about this... This is part of the problem though. You are only happy to see Eve on the team because of her sexuality ("otherwise you must be gay"), and nothing more. If her sexuality is what leads you to give her a positive reaction, you can't be surprised that others attack her based on her sexuality. It should either be respect her as a player, not a sexual creature, or not be surprised she is being targeted for her gender. Can't have it both ways. The problem with gender started way before this though. Female gamers get obscene amounts of crap every time they place a game. Socially ostracized and verbally abused because they are different from the "norm". Every single game is like this, so it is understandable that the talent pool for female gamers is not a profound and that of male gamers. The segregation happened a long time ago. Unless someone steps up and takes a chance, the cycle will continue and male gamers will be overwhelmingly if not the only professional gamers around. Bringing on Eve is hopefully the first of many and is (as I see it) a kind of olive branch to other females to become more involved in eSports. Provide a tangible goal through the abuse and taunts that IS disproportionately thrown at them and perhaps steadily make females less and less "closet gamers". Her gender is indeed (sadly) a central focus here, you are right, but instead of taking it as giving massive group of people a chance to shine, many cynically see it in a shallow sexual manner. Normally we rarely see or give a game about the gender divide in gaming, Jessica brought it to the forefront and it willing to do something about it instead of letting it remain the status quo. Hopefully there will be enough ambitious women playing SC2 and other games that they can have the luxury of selecting them purely on merit and skill, but right now that is only a small facet of the issue here. The larger issue is finding a girl willing to stand up publicly and call herself and aspiring pro-gamer without being target and disproportionately abused by the general public. Eve is once such female and instead of backing down Jessica and SlayerS is helping her forward in the face of this prejudice. (Which looking through a lot of the posts, there definitely is in the community). Even if Eve showed up as the super hyper Gosu bonjwa of bonjwa's, the community at large would STILL have given her abuse and taunts for being a girl in gaming. Perhaps Jessica could have handled things slightly differently with regards to the GSTL, everything is better in hind-sight, but the public's reaction while semi-expected is still unacceptable. Which is why overall I support her decision to not back down to the trolls on this one. Isn't there someone who plays sc1 and not a male... and doesn't get any of the abuse that you so claim... unfortunate that she couldn't qualify again...supposedly met jangbi or so... there's no difference... not like this crude matter... only different in your mind... hope they do well in the future and possibly not overreact to something insignificant...
Only TossGirl? Thats it? One person in BW, not even the same game. She did a lot sure, but she got a LOT of undue crap along the way, I'm sure. SC2 has no TossGirl yet, and only a small handful of women streamers, who can probably attest that their chat logs are not really about the game. It will take time, but Eve is just exposing a much larger issue in my opinion. One that is now being focused down on her.
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All I can say is - best of luck to SlayerS and everybody involved. Too bad you have been involved with these disturbances, but don't let them stop you from concentrating on the game. Glad that there was an apology received, and sure that there will be more to come. Rude people on the net often turn out to be a lot more sensitive and gentle in real life.
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I fully understand and support the way Jessica chose to deal with the situation.
People in the West are way too tolerant of hate speech and malicious trolling on the internet, to the point that we consider it an unavoidable part of the online experience. But is it really? ...No, I don't see why it would be. We could just as easily pass laws (similar to those they have in Korea) that would force people to be more responsible about what they say and do behind the mask of internet pseudonyms.
Maybe it would open some doors for potential abuse (even easier invasion of privacy, monitoring and censorship of unwanted debates and movements, silencing whistleblowers, et cetera), but with the way things are going, we'll hardly have any real freedoms left a few years down the line, so we might as well get rid of this metaphorical cancer in the process.
At least partially.
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It's funny how people say grow esports! make it more mainstream! blah blah.. then all of the sudden a girl is picked up to a B team as a training partner and all hell breaks loose. This is good for popularity, mainstream appeal. It doesn't help that "gamer" culture is extremely biased against girls. Just move on and ignore it, let slayers do what they want. She hasn't even played a game yet and been on the team like 2 weeks. Jinro was once basically completely ignored for like 4-5 months until he wins an MLG. Not saying that Eve will bust out as a top player, but relax. For every star there are 20 unknowns, not a big deal they recruit someone who won a female tournament .
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On July 22 2011 07:00 Adam9172 wrote:
The only thing I have an issue with here is claiming that girls have a harder time playing against men in Starcraft2. Given an equal amount of training, girls can easily hold their own against men. After all, women are better at multitasking, and what is starcraft 2 pro gaming, if not multi tasking? Hell, I know many women who could beat me at this game!
This is exactly why this is good. If women have no inherent disadvantage in SC2, then the reason they are so underrepresented is social/cultural and the best way to overcome that is to just start promoting the hell out of the female scene and by getting more females into the main spotlight. You know a great way to do that? Put one of them on the best team in the game.
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It's not Jessica's fault, but Korea's decision to make cyberbullying illegal is extremely ridiculous.
That being said, despite everything being said by Jessica about hurt feelings, shame, etcetera, the decision to prosecute, with law, someone for it far exceeds any embarrassment or shame from cyberbullying. If it's the equivalent of a misdemeanor, it's still absurd. It's the enforcement of cultural ethics on something which, by it's very nature, isn't tied to an individual culture.
You can always stop looking at twitter or forums (Or, more specifically, places that allow such behavior). If people harass you in real life about something online, then there is your harassment that should be dealt with (The same way harassment without an online component is dealt with).
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There's nothing absolutely wrong about having Slayers_Eve on the team. Everyone has to start from somewhere to start generating female progamers.
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I believe that what Jessica did is great by bringing Eve onto the team. She saw potential in a player and chose to showcase her to show what SlayerS had in store. Eve without coaching or help made it to diamond on the Korean ladder and Jessica saw pottential in this feat. That's like reaching mid masters on the NA server and on NA a man of equal skill would have been given a team and be consistantly playing in tournaments already. I'm sure that within a month Eve will become a masters on the Korean server and show us all her true potential.
Jessica, Eve, and all of SlayerS i wish you the best of luck and appreciate all that you do for the Starcraft 2 community.
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All my support to Eve.
The Sc2 female community is growing and we try to support each other. You will be amazed how many master players are in this community.
Sadly things like this happens...and you only wonder why "female only tourneys" exists......
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What I don't understand is why they didn't recruit a better player.. Unless Eve is actually better than diamond. Surely there are a handful of females in S.Korea at high masters. Unless in Korea fewer girls play than in America. Even 1% of the top 2000 would be 20 potential players in masters.
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Nothing wrong about having her on the team. Good luck. But I also find Korea's laws about internet quite ridiculous, and it's nothing surprising that people photoshop known persons and make jokes/images about them. Maybe you should just stop caring about haters?
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Go Slayers! Go Boxer 
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Slayers Fighting ! I support you 200 %
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It's admirable how much Jessica looks after the players on her team. All the power to her to do what needs to be done to ease their troubles and play.
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You have my support Jessica! its sad that this is what it has come to  keep the team's spirits up! I know your a great manager
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On July 22 2011 05:01 SlayerS_Jessica wrote:
Hello. I am SlayerS_Jessica.
But if she trains and receives training, I believe that she will achieve the match ability to at least give you all entertaining matches to watch.
That is why I selected her.
I think she can easily outdo any male if given the same possibilities, time and effort. Given she has the same amount of skill within her.
SlayerS_Jessica I respect what you are doing and I hope it goes well,
<3 and huge love from Sweden. Ignore the haters and the nerdy guys who have never had a real woman relationship.
SlayerS Fightinnnn' !
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EPT
