Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button.
On July 22 2011 06:11 SeaSwift wrote: What annoys me about this is that it is reverse discrimination, like when the Western Governments started encouraging having a certain percentage of black people in jobs. I don't care what skin colour people has, and racism and all other kinds of mindless discrimination are despicable, etc, etc.
The fact remains that purely because there are few female pro-gamers, SlayerS_Jessica picked EvE. Pro-gaming should always remain a meritocracy, and I disagree with picking up EvE over many players beyond her ability/potential, purely because she is female. If there were other reasons, like she'd won the application tourney, or was playing really well in Masters/GM I would be pleased about another sick SlayerS addition. Unfortunately, she's not. Just an encouragement move to female gamers which actually had the opposite effect to what was intended: a knee-jerk reaction from the community.
Of course, I don't condone this knee-jerk reaction either. Most of the comments were just shite, no better way to put it. But I feel even if one side in this argument is less to blame than the other, neither are without flaws. This mess just shouldn't have happened in the first place and it's a shame it did.
To fire/get rid of SlayerS_EvE would just lower respect for you and make it look like you've given in, so I reckon your course of action should stay true. There will be a lot of pressure on Eve, and I hope she can live up to it, not just for her sake, but for SlayerS in general and the community. Good luck
But she did win an all-female tournament, and if you have faith in BoxeR, Eve wouldn't have made it in unless BoxeR also saw potential in her. So, there are indeed some justifications from a skill/potential angle about recruiting Eve. Obviously being female was also a key aspect in the choice they made, but you can't just say they recruited some random chick out of the blue just because they really wanted a female player.
On July 22 2011 05:41 ranshaked wrote: Well written but I still disagree with you for blocking me on twitter. You're still an over reActive typical female. I wasn't being rude to you. You've lost my following by jumping to conclusions with me. You are a hypocrite.
She isn't a professional. (eve). She's a gimmick as we would call it in America. It's a monetary and organized push for something that will never be. My team does it as well. In fact last night I allowed a female to start in the league match because of the same reason. Sex appeal and the glamor of a woman player.
This happens every day and it's pathetic to waste court resources when their are many other serious issues going on.
so you are from the future ?
Female gaming will never be up to par with male gaming. It's like any other sport. It's funny how this is called sexism. When the only reason she was chosen was because she is a female
Re-read your post and you will find out why it is a sexist remark....
This is a cookie cutter case of affirmative action.
o.O So the fact that she is trying to start female progaming by adding the best openly female player to their roster, is affirmative action :O Seems like i missed the years of the opprison of females in Pro-Gaming, does anyone bother to fill me in?
Btw. the sexism is so apparent in your posts, i have NO idea how to respond to that. It's like trying to get rid of one specific blade of grass, while standing up to your head in a grass meadow. The fact that you surely know, that female progaming will never be as good as male, well let's just say people also thought there would never be a human on the moon.
The fact that you post in this thread leads me to believe, you are hurt, that you are not getting such an opportunity jsut because you are not female. Well it is a fact, that she is the best of her gender in Korea, deserves some recognition in a way, just like it deserves recognition to be the best in a town or a country.
People shouldn't hate on Eve, it was right for jessica to protect her player. Whether Eve deserved to be on slayers is irrelevant. You don't get on a team because you "deserve" to. You get on a team because people are willing to contract you.
Good post Jessica and I hope the harassment will stop.
Eve takes up resources, which means these are fewer resources for other players. Whoever practices with her is going to get next to nothing from the practice, because she's not good enough to put up a fight. She's also going to take up coaching time that would be better used on the players who are actually competing.
I'm also guessing the SlayerS house has a finite capacity, so Eve being there means someone else can't be.
Wow that's a lot of speculation on how their team operates. Do we even know if Eve is staying at the SlayerS house? We know that SlayerS Dragon isn't.
If you're going to assume that whoever practices with her isn't going to gain anything then MC, Nestea, etc probably shouldn't bother with anyone that haven't placed well in tournaments? That's a pretty grim way to look at things.
Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others.
Even so, there are plenty of teams both foreign and Korean with under performing players. Aren't they taking up resources? Shouldn't they be booted in place for better players? I don't think so. Those decisions are up to the managers of the individual teams.
By your logic there shouldn't be welfare or social security programs. I don't know about you, but as we are both Canadians - I'm thankful for my free healthcare.
you mean like (.......)
TheBestfOu?
also BitByBit when he was in prime (he left.)
i believe thebestfou finished the highest in the supertournament. he proved his worth in that event
I love Slayers and im extremely excited to see what Eve can put to the table when it comes to Competing. The SC2 scene tends to follow the masses and like who is popular and the norm. I hope Eve can rise to the challenge and become the new "norm".
On July 22 2011 06:11 SeaSwift wrote: What annoys me about this is that it is reverse discrimination, like when the Western Governments started encouraging having a certain percentage of black people in jobs. I don't care what skin colour people has, and racism and all other kinds of mindless discrimination are despicable, etc, etc.
The fact remains that purely because there are few female pro-gamers, SlayerS_Jessica picked EvE. Pro-gaming should always remain a meritocracy, and I disagree with picking up EvE over many players beyond her ability/potential, purely because she is female. If there were other reasons, like she'd won the application tourney, or was playing really well in Masters/GM I would be pleased about another sick SlayerS addition. Unfortunately, she's not. Just an encouragement move to female gamers which actually had the opposite effect to what was intended: a knee-jerk reaction from the community.
Of course, I don't condone this knee-jerk reaction either. Most of the comments were just shite, no better way to put it. But I feel even if one side in this argument is less to blame than the other, neither are without flaws. This mess just shouldn't have happened in the first place and it's a shame it did.
To fire/get rid of SlayerS_EvE would just lower respect for you and make it look like you've given in, so I reckon your course of action should stay true. There will be a lot of pressure on Eve, and I hope she can live up to it, not just for her sake, but for SlayerS in general and the community. Good luck
Thank you for saying what I can't type on my phone. This is my point
On July 22 2011 05:41 ranshaked wrote: Well written but I still disagree with you for blocking me on twitter. You're still an over reActive typical female. I wasn't being rude to you. You've lost my following by jumping to conclusions with me. You are a hypocrite.
She isn't a professional. (eve). She's a gimmick as we would call it in America. It's a monetary and organized push for something that will never be. My team does it as well. In fact last night I allowed a female to start in the league match because of the same reason. Sex appeal and the glamor of a woman player.
This happens every day and it's pathetic to waste court resources when their are many other serious issues going on.
so you are from the future ?
Female gaming will never be up to par with male gaming. It's like any other sport. It's funny how this is called sexism. When the only reason she was chosen was because she is a female
Re-read your post and you will find out why it is a sexist remark....
This is a cookie cutter case of affirmative action.
o.O So the fact that she is trying to start female progaming by adding the best openly female player to their roster, is affirmative action :O Seems like i missed the years of the opprison of females in Pro-Gaming, does anyone bother to fill me in?
Btw. the sexism is so apparent in your posts, i have NO idea how to respond to that. It's like trying to get rid of one specific blade of grass, while standing up to your head in a grass meadow. The fact that you surely know, that female progaming will never be as good as male, well let's just say people also thought there would never be a human on the moon.
The fact that you post in this thread leads me to believe, you are hurt, that you are not getting such an opportunity jsut because you are not female. Well it is a fact, that she is the best of her gender in Korea, deserves some recognition in a way, just like it deserves recognition to be the best in a town or a country.
I'd say kid's mad
hopefully Eve can overcome this (with Jessica's help) and then she can show us cool games~
Great post and I support you, boxer and slayers. Sadly your message will be lost on some just due to cultural differences. Most foreigners see internet hate and just go haters going to hate, while in Korea it's very different.
While I can't understand and personally know how it feels from the korean side of it, I can understand and respect the differences in regards to online hate, so support you in your handling of this matter.
On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote: Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others.
The world has limited resources. Every person born consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. Using your logic, should we not be allowed to bring anymore children into the world?
Using his logic we should not spend time surfing TL and posting as this consumes electricity and therefore gas which is non-renewable.
On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote: Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others.
The world has limited resources. Every person born consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. Using your logic, should we not be allowed to bring anymore children into the world?
no we should increase productivity
same with the slayers team
they should try to get more sponsors and promote the growth of the industry
getting a female progamer can help you get sponsors and can help ignite interest in the industry. its a good thing if there wasnt those elitists that think they are shareholders of slayers or something
On July 22 2011 05:59 carloselcoco wrote: Everyone who is mad because Jessica selected Eve must be gay! Who does not want to see female pro-gamers!! 0.o I am loving the initiative and people should stop flaming that she was only selected because she was a girl. Why? Because Jessica said it herself that it was because she was a girl! Jessica wants to see women in SC2 and so do I! So, unless you are gay, you should stop complaining about this...
This is part of the problem though. You are only happy to see Eve on the team because of her sexuality ("otherwise you must be gay"), and nothing more. If her sexuality is what leads you to give her a positive reaction, you can't be surprised that others attack her based on her sexuality.
It should either be respect her as a player, not a sexual creature, or not be surprised she is being targeted for her gender. Can't have it both ways.
Do not twist my words mate. If you read my other posts as well, you will see that I believe in AND RESPECT Eve so much that I am sure she can beat the GM's in NA and EU
Like I mentioned in the other thread, I think pursuing legal action over the harassment with Eve is definitely a good idea. I thought the twitter stuff was too much, so I am glad to hear you detailed explanation of what happened and what will happen.
I think you do a great job communicating to your fans, and I hope you continue to do so. Best of luck to Eve. I know it's a terrible struggle to be treated respectfully as a female member of the community.
Would a guy be picked up at the exactsame skill level as her? It's the same thing as if I'm competing for a job and a black female (minority) got the job for just being a black female. It's based on the same theory
We're talking about an entertainment industry that both participant-wise and consumer-wise is dominated by males. How is a conscious business decision to attempt to extend the business to the other sex based on the same theory as having the government enforce legislation requiring businesses to hire minorities?
On July 22 2011 06:11 SeaSwift wrote: What annoys me about this is that it is reverse discrimination, like when the Western Governments started encouraging having a certain percentage of black people in jobs. I don't care what skin colour people has, and racism and all other kinds of mindless discrimination are despicable, etc, etc.
The fact remains that purely because there are few female pro-gamers, SlayerS_Jessica picked EvE. Pro-gaming should always remain a meritocracy, and I disagree with picking up EvE over many players beyond her ability/potential, purely because she is female. If there were other reasons, like she'd won the application tourney, or was playing really well in Masters/GM I would be pleased about another sick SlayerS addition. Unfortunately, she's not. Just an encouragement move to female gamers which actually had the opposite effect to what was intended: a knee-jerk reaction from the community.
Of course, I don't condone this knee-jerk reaction either. Most of the comments were just shite, no better way to put it. But I feel even if one side in this argument is less to blame than the other, neither are without flaws. This mess just shouldn't have happened in the first place and it's a shame it did.
To fire/get rid of SlayerS_EvE would just lower respect for you and make it look like you've given in, so I reckon your course of action should stay true. There will be a lot of pressure on Eve, and I hope she can live up to it, not just for her sake, but for SlayerS in general and the community. Good luck
But she did win an all-female tournament, and if you have faith in BoxeR, Eve wouldn't have made it in unless BoxeR also saw potential in her. So, there are indeed some justifications from a skill/potential angle about recruiting Eve. Obviously being female was also a key aspect in the choice they made, but you can't just say they recruited some random chick out of the blue just because they really wanted a female player.
Some people seem to think that Boxer and Jessica are stupid and don't think about their actions... ...and i'm almost giving up arguing with them.
Jessica and Boxer recruited Eve, so they must have seen something in her that we - due to a lack of information - can't see. Whatever it was that they saw, it must have been more than just Eves cute face, so just trust the Emperor and his Empress, they probably know a lot more about managing a team and scouting talents than you do.
On July 22 2011 05:59 carloselcoco wrote: Everyone who is mad because Jessica selected Eve must be gay! Who does not want to see female pro-gamers!! 0.o I am loving the initiative and people should stop flaming that she was only selected because she was a girl. Why? Because Jessica said it herself that it was because she was a girl! Jessica wants to see women in SC2 and so do I! So, unless you are gay, you should stop complaining about this...
This is part of the problem though. You are only happy to see Eve on the team because of her sexuality ("otherwise you must be gay"), and nothing more. If her sexuality is what leads you to give her a positive reaction, you can't be surprised that others attack her based on her sexuality.
It should either be respect her as a player, not a sexual creature, or not be surprised she is being targeted for her gender. Can't have it both ways.
Do not twist my words mate. If you read my other posts as well, you will see that I believe in AND RESPECT Eve so much that I am sure she can beat the GM's in NA and EU
he is not twisting our words You think it's okay for one minority to be discriminated against while you try to support another. That is the problem.
I totally understand we have a lack of females in esports, but I think the problem some people have is that if a male Gold player approached a team like slayers, saying he "won a gold tournament, and it's a big achievement" or that he had potential, he'd be laughed at.
Imo, positive discrimination is equally detrimental to esports as having few women.
On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote: Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others.
The world has limited resources. Every person born consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. Using your logic, should we not be allowed to bring anymore children into the world?
Using his logic we should not spend time surfing TL and posting as this consumes electricity and therefore gas which is non-renewable.
We have less female progamers because we have less women interested in videogames, not because they can't compete like men. Starcraft doesn't require physical strength to play.
I am really sorry to hear about the slander and harassment (I did not know of the photoshopping, and I am appalled) that Slayers_Eve, and the entire team, has had to endure.
Slayers <3!
Also, to those criticizing her for Diamond level: from what I've read from FXO (in a recent blog post I think), Diamond in Korea is high Master's in the USA. It was a big deal when the first FXO team member made it into Master's from Diamond. The Korean server has a high density of players who really know what they're doing, and they've refined their builds.
EDIT: Also, yes, the Master's and Grandmaster's in Korea would be more deserving. But if Slayers can successfully expand the number of people interested in Starcraft (in this case, females), then they will have expanded the total number of players, which will lead later on to an expanded number of better, professional players. So it can be thought of as affirmative action, or it could be thought of as a move to expand a demographic. Yes, there might be some players out there saddened to lose an opportunity to join an excellent team, but there is one player out there who is happy to have received it, Eve herself, and I expect she will work twice as hard now to prove herself than anybody else would.
Great post, lot of good information. I think most people are upset about the whole thing because it's only that she's a female that she is able to be where she's at. Hell, I played about 25 sc2 ladder games this season and I I'm pretty sure I've got a 2:1 ratio against high diamond / low masters players. So now, I rarely play, I do decent enough, yet there's no way I'd ever get a chance to join a team like SlayerS, maybe if I get a sex change I'd stand a chance but otherwise no way.
It will be interesting to see how well SlayerS trains her and if in the future she will be a force to reckon with. But honestly, Jessica, BoxeR, when will you pick me up? =)
On July 22 2011 05:59 carloselcoco wrote: Everyone who is mad because Jessica selected Eve must be gay! Who does not want to see female pro-gamers!! 0.o I am loving the initiative and people should stop flaming that she was only selected because she was a girl. Why? Because Jessica said it herself that it was because she was a girl! Jessica wants to see women in SC2 and so do I! So, unless you are gay, you should stop complaining about this...
This is part of the problem though. You are only happy to see Eve on the team because of her sexuality ("otherwise you must be gay"), and nothing more. If her sexuality is what leads you to give her a positive reaction, you can't be surprised that others attack her based on her sexuality.
It should either be respect her as a player, not a sexual creature, or not be surprised she is being targeted for her gender. Can't have it both ways.
Do not twist my words mate. If you read my other posts as well, you will see that I believe in AND RESPECT Eve so much that I am sure she can beat the GM's in NA and EU
he is not twisting our words You think it's okay for one minority to be discriminated against while you try to support another. That is the problem.
OK, tell me where I am discriminating against a minority? Did you even read the quotes? 0.o
EPT
