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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. |
On July 22 2011 06:05 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:56 carloselcoco wrote:On July 22 2011 05:49 ranshaked wrote:On July 22 2011 05:45 farnham wrote:On July 22 2011 05:41 ranshaked wrote:
Well written but I still disagree with you for blocking me on twitter. You're still an over reActive typical female. I wasn't being rude to you. You've lost my following by jumping to conclusions with me. You are a hypocrite.
She isn't a professional. (eve). She's a gimmick as we would call it in America. It's a monetary and organized push for something that will never be. My team does it as well. In fact last night I allowed a female to start in the league match because of the same reason. Sex appeal and the glamor of a woman player.
This happens every day and it's pathetic to waste court resources when their are many other serious issues going on. so you are from the future ? Female gaming will never be up to par with male gaming. It's like any other sport. It's funny how this is called sexism. When the only reason she was chosen was because she is a female Re-read your post and you will find out why it is a sexist remark.... This is a cookie cutter case of affirmative action. Except that this is a business making a voluntary choice to hire a woman rather than the government enforcing it upon businesses.
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On July 22 2011 06:08 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:08 JLew wrote:On July 22 2011 06:02 HolyArrow wrote:On July 22 2011 05:58 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:55 HolyArrow wrote:On July 22 2011 05:53 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:47 farnham wrote:On July 22 2011 05:40 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:35 Charger wrote:On July 22 2011 05:25 FreezerJumps wrote:
I don't support Eve, because she doesn't deserve what she's been given. I don't support Jessica, because she's given an opportunity to someone far less deserving than the masters and gransmasters players who have done far more to earn a contract.
But I also don't support the people who are saying anything worse than what I just said, nor do I support any of the supposed hatred and pictures which I haven't seen. Yeah, ladder ranking is all that people should consider when giving someone an opportunity to play on a team................. :o edit - Go SlayerS! And go BoxeR!!!!!!! <3 I didn't mean to imply that ladder ranking was the only important factor, but I do think it's quite a bit more important than gender and looks, which have been explicitly stated as reasons why she was added to the team.If you were in grandmasters on KR, playing against professionals, how would you feel when your chance to join a team is taken by someone else because she's a girl and you're a guy? I know a lot of people support affirmative action in e-Sports, but I'm not one of them. yes this is why people have to check their information is this information comes from thisisgame.com it was a speculation of the journalist not an actual statement of the team check it for yourself : http://thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=703754&category=102 From the OP: She was not selected through the pro-gamer casting system, but she is someone I selected for the team to help start having female competitors in Starcraft 2 Maybe I was wrong about the looks part, but my point stands. Gender shouldn't be a factor at all. Why shouldn't gender be a factor? It's their team, and they want to do more than just make a strong team - they want to help e-Sports grow. If you watched BoxeR's Wings, you'd see the sheer amount of passion and effort Jessica and BoxeR put into creating their team. Finding sponsors, finding a team house, all while Jessica took care of BoxeR while BoxeR practiced for the GSL. And after all that hard work from scratch, suddenly they can't recruit whoever they damn well please? What's with this idealistic sense of entitlement? They can pick whomever they want. All I've said is that I don't support those decisions. Eve hasn't earned anything. By your logic, one could argue that, for example, SlayerS picking up Alicia was also an unfair decision that you wouldn't support. Alicia lost in the recruitment tournament, yet BoxeR picked him up anyway because apparently he encountered Alicia on the ladder or something and saw potential in him. In other words, Alicia didn't make it into SlayerS because of just being good (having lost in the recruitment tournament) - he made it in because he was lucky enough to run into BoxeR in the past so that BoxeR could form a good opinion of him. There very well may have been plenty of other more-deserving players (if you go by skill as the only factor for deserving recruitment). And, you definitely don't "earn" BoxeR evaluating you as someone with potential - you simply have that potential or you don't. Thus, I don't really see how "earning" recruitment has to do with anything. I think it was because Jessica thought Alicia was a girl.. Haha, well played.
Don't forget about Tiffany, too. They have a Tiffany on their team, don't they?
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Okay there are 5 or so people debating against me now, so I'm going to stop. All I've said is that I don't support affirmative action. If you think it's great, then that's fine. I don't hate anyone involved in this, I just don't support them.
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Glad to see a post from you clearing everything up. I said it once before in the other thread, but don't let them get you down Jessica! You're doing amazing work and you should know that you have many fans here as a result ^__^
Slayers fighting!
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So much nerd jealousy for a girl
Jessica, you have my support and most probably the support of the better part of TL community (minus Idra) Keep it up.
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On July 22 2011 06:09 darksage78 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:58 darksage78 wrote:
Eve takes up resources, which means these are fewer resources for other players. Whoever practices with her is going to get next to nothing from the practice, because she's not good enough to put up a fight. She's also going to take up coaching time that would be better used on the players who are actually competing.
I'm also guessing the SlayerS house has a finite capacity, so Eve being there means someone else can't be.
Wow that's a lot of speculation on how their team operates. Do we even know if Eve is staying at the SlayerS house? We know that SlayerS Dragon isn't. If you're going to assume that whoever practices with her isn't going to gain anything then MC, Nestea, etc probably shouldn't bother with anyone that haven't placed well in tournaments? That's a pretty grim way to look at things. Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. Even so, there are plenty of teams both foreign and Korean with under performing players. Aren't they taking up resources? Shouldn't they be booted in place for better players? I don't think so. Those decisions are up to the managers of the individual teams.By your logic there shouldn't be welfare or social security programs. I don't know about you, but as we are both Canadians - I'm thankful for my free healthcare.
you mean like
(.......)
TheBestfOu?
also BitByBit when he was in prime (he left.)
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On July 22 2011 06:08 JLew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:07 carloselcoco wrote:On July 22 2011 06:05 TokyoDown wrote:
Signing girl gamers is awesome. I think more teams should look into it as long as their at the appropriate skill level. EvE is not on that level. For Slayers, this is a good move to bring in media, and a better vibe to the whole Slayers organization. I just don't think suddenly signing a "ametuer" for the sake of being original, and diverse is a good idea.
I do condemn all those for the hate mail, and humiliating a innocent girl. In any circumstance, you should never send hate mail. What is that going to accomplish? People that send hate mail need to look in the mirror. Hyporcrits.
SO, Eve happens to be Diamond in Korea... I can guarantee you that she is able to beat GM's from NA and Europe..... I would take that bet..
as would I
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Thank you for your post here.. Most people treat both Eve and you with respect, hope you can ignore the others. Sorry for the immature community sometimes.. many young people T_T
Hope you succeed.
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On July 22 2011 06:09 FreezerJumps wrote:
Okay there are 5 or so people debating against me now, so I'm going to stop. All I've said is that I don't support affirmative action. If you think it's great, then that's fine. I don't hate anyone involved in this, I just don't support them.
 And I was really looking forward to what you had to say to my last response, since I had a quote directly from the OP to contradict you with...
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<3 Slayers and SlayerS_Jessica, you will always have my support, and the vast majority of TL I believe, supports your team as well. BoxeR is our legend, our hero, don't let a handful of people both in korea posting negatives about Eve, and those here that called your actions as overreactions. I'd venture to say that most players and fans here are supportive of you, and just chose not to voice our opinions on a sensitive matter, while the trolls and negative posters were at full arms to make it seem like a bigger deal than it was.
SlayerS FIghting!
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On July 22 2011 06:05 FreezerJumps wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:02 HolyArrow wrote:On July 22 2011 05:58 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:55 HolyArrow wrote:On July 22 2011 05:53 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:47 farnham wrote:On July 22 2011 05:40 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:35 Charger wrote:On July 22 2011 05:25 FreezerJumps wrote:
I don't support Eve, because she doesn't deserve what she's been given. I don't support Jessica, because she's given an opportunity to someone far less deserving than the masters and gransmasters players who have done far more to earn a contract.
But I also don't support the people who are saying anything worse than what I just said, nor do I support any of the supposed hatred and pictures which I haven't seen. Yeah, ladder ranking is all that people should consider when giving someone an opportunity to play on a team................. :o edit - Go SlayerS! And go BoxeR!!!!!!! <3 I didn't mean to imply that ladder ranking was the only important factor, but I do think it's quite a bit more important than gender and looks, which have been explicitly stated as reasons why she was added to the team.If you were in grandmasters on KR, playing against professionals, how would you feel when your chance to join a team is taken by someone else because she's a girl and you're a guy? I know a lot of people support affirmative action in e-Sports, but I'm not one of them. yes this is why people have to check their information is this information comes from thisisgame.com it was a speculation of the journalist not an actual statement of the team check it for yourself : http://thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=703754&category=102 From the OP: She was not selected through the pro-gamer casting system, but she is someone I selected for the team to help start having female competitors in Starcraft 2 Maybe I was wrong about the looks part, but my point stands. Gender shouldn't be a factor at all. Why shouldn't gender be a factor? It's their team, and they want to do more than just make a strong team - they want to help e-Sports grow. If you watched BoxeR's Wings, you'd see the sheer amount of passion and effort Jessica and BoxeR put into creating their team. Finding sponsors, finding a team house, all while Jessica took care of BoxeR while BoxeR practiced for the GSL. And after all that hard work from scratch, suddenly they can't recruit whoever they damn well please? What's with this idealistic sense of entitlement? They can pick whomever they want. All I've said is that I don't support those decisions. Eve hasn't earned anything. By your logic, one could argue that, for example, SlayerS picking up Alicia was also an unfair decision that you wouldn't support. Alicia lost in the recruitment tournament, yet BoxeR picked him up anyway because apparently he encountered Alicia on the ladder or something and saw potential in him. In other words, Alicia didn't make it into SlayerS because of just being good (having lost in the recruitment tournament) - he made it in because he was lucky enough to run into BoxeR in the past so that BoxeR could form a good opinion of him. There very well may have been plenty of other more-deserving players (if you go by skill as the only factor for deserving recruitment). And, you definitely don't "earn" BoxeR evaluating you as someone with potential - you simply have that potential or you don't. Thus, I don't really see how "earning" recruitment has to do with anything. Alicia was recruited for skill and potential, which are important. Eve was picked up because she's a girl, which is not important.
You are incorrect. It is important and for bigger reasons than simply winning.
There is always so much talk about "growing esports" and "hurting esports" but I think most people must just not be smart enough to realize what that means. Trying to promote and foster a female scene? Waste of resources. Trying to create a professional environment that everyone can enjoy? Censorship.
You need to understand that SlayerS_Jessica is trying to do more than just win matches. Think bigger, here, man. Look at the bigger picture and what more females being involved could do for the whole scene.
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Please don't take the posts of the few here as representative of the foreign fanbase. A great majority of us idolise Lim YoHwan and adore SlayerS clan.
Many of us support your cause and would love to see more of SlayerSEve and female sc2 players in general!
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What annoys me about this is that it is reverse discrimination, like when the Western Governments started encouraging having a certain percentage of black people in jobs. I don't care what skin colour people has, and racism and all other kinds of mindless discrimination are despicable, etc, etc.
The fact remains that purely because there are few female pro-gamers, SlayerS_Jessica picked EvE. Pro-gaming should always remain a meritocracy, and I disagree with picking up EvE over many players beyond her ability/potential, purely because she is female. If there were other reasons, like she'd won the application tourney, or was playing really well in Masters/GM I would be pleased about another sick SlayerS addition. Unfortunately, she's not. Just an encouragement move to female gamers which actually had the opposite effect to what was intended: a knee-jerk reaction from the community.
Of course, I don't condone this knee-jerk reaction either. Most of the comments were just shite, no better way to put it. But I feel even if one side in this argument is less to blame than the other, neither are without flaws. This mess just shouldn't have happened in the first place and it's a shame it did.
To fire/get rid of SlayerS_EvE would just lower respect for you and make it look like you've given in, so I reckon your course of action should stay true. There will be a lot of pressure on Eve, and I hope she can live up to it, not just for her sake, but for SlayerS in general and the community. Good luck 
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On July 22 2011 06:09 FreezerJumps wrote:
Okay there are 5 or so people debating against me now, so I'm going to stop. All I've said is that I don't support affirmative action. If you think it's great, then that's fine. I don't hate anyone involved in this, I just don't support them.
You don't understand what the words "affirmative action" is, that's why you're being argued against, go check out dictionary.com and come back to the discussion at hand.
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@spaceyeti
Would a guy be picked up at the exactsame skill level as her? It's the same thing as if I'm competing for a job and a black female (minority) got the job for just being a black female. It's based on the same theory
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Great Job Jessica, keep up the excellent managing job you have been doing and keep doing whatever you can to support your players and female competition in epsorts.
Poll: Do you support SlayerS_Jessica and what she is doing for Eve?Yes (112) 82% no (25) 18% 137 total votes Your vote: Do you support SlayerS_Jessica and what she is doing for Eve? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): no
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On July 22 2011 06:07 Solinos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:59 carloselcoco wrote:
Everyone who is mad because Jessica selected Eve must be gay!
Who does not want to see female pro-gamers!! 0.o
I am loving the initiative and people should stop flaming that she was only selected because she was a girl. Why? Because Jessica said it herself that it was because she was a girl! Jessica wants to see women in SC2 and so do I! So, unless you are gay, you should stop complaining about this... So, if someone was gay, they should continue complaining about this? I can't believe this is your best argument in support of Eve. It makes no sense, it's mildly offensive, and portrays an attitude that contradicts why Eve was allowed to join Slayers - to help foster a more diverse gaming environment.
LOL, if you actually know how to read, which you clearly have proven as you do not know. I stated that unless you are gay you should stop complaining. SHOULD is the key word here. It is an option, not a command. LEARN TO READ!!!!! STOP THE HATING!!!
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On July 22 2011 05:59 carloselcoco wrote:
Everyone who is mad because Jessica selected Eve must be gay!
Who does not want to see female pro-gamers!! 0.o
I am loving the initiative and people should stop flaming that she was only selected because she was a girl. Why? Because Jessica said it herself that it was because she was a girl! Jessica wants to see women in SC2 and so do I! So, unless you are gay, you should stop complaining about this...
This is part of the problem though. You are only happy to see Eve on the team because of her sexuality ("otherwise you must be gay"), and nothing more. If her sexuality is what leads you to give her a positive reaction, you can't be surprised that others attack her based on her sexuality.
It should either be respect her as a player, not a sexual creature, or not be surprised she is being targeted for her gender. Can't have it both ways.
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On July 22 2011 06:12 CookieMaker wrote:Great Job Jessica, keep up the excellent managing job you have been doing and keep doing whatever you can to support your players and female competition in epsorts. Poll: Do you support SlayerS_Jessica and what she is doing for Eve?Yes (112) 82% no (25) 18% 137 total votes Your vote: Do you support SlayerS_Jessica and what she is doing for Eve? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): no
where's the "hell fucking yes" option
oh well, voted for yes.....
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I am glad she was selected to attract more female gamers to progaming. SlayerS have only had eSports in their minds; to think people see this as an opportunity to cyber-bully and send hate mail to Eve and Jessica is so frustrating and it makes me fucking angry, this situation will only put other female gamers off. I guess that's the problem with eSports, people can sit behind a computer and spurt out shit they wouldn't say to anyone having a normal conversation. I support Jessica, and think she is very humble blaming SlayerS's recent lapse in results due to this problem, which only shows the passion and desire to get back team morale and start dominating results again.
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EPT
