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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. |
On July 22 2011 05:49 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:45 farnham wrote:On July 22 2011 05:41 ranshaked wrote:
Well written but I still disagree with you for blocking me on twitter. You're still an over reActive typical female. I wasn't being rude to you. You've lost my following by jumping to conclusions with me. You are a hypocrite.
She isn't a professional. (eve). She's a gimmick as we would call it in America. It's a monetary and organized push for something that will never be. My team does it as well. In fact last night I allowed a female to start in the league match because of the same reason. Sex appeal and the glamor of a woman player.
This happens every day and it's pathetic to waste court resources when their are many other serious issues going on. so you are from the future ? Female gaming will never be up to par with male gaming. It's like any other sport. It's funny how this is called sexism. When the only reason she was chosen was because she is a female
this is so ignorant, what are the reasons? I doubt there are any significant biological differences between males and females when it comes to gaming. Reasons are social, due to people like you if anything.
More males playing games -> bigger talent pool -> males do better. Doesn't mean that even with small player pool, a talented and dedicated female can emerge to become one of the top players. Especially if there's a pro team helping her overcome some of the obstacles.
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On July 22 2011 05:58 FreezerJumps wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:55 HolyArrow wrote:On July 22 2011 05:53 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:47 farnham wrote:On July 22 2011 05:40 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:35 Charger wrote:On July 22 2011 05:25 FreezerJumps wrote:
I don't support Eve, because she doesn't deserve what she's been given. I don't support Jessica, because she's given an opportunity to someone far less deserving than the masters and gransmasters players who have done far more to earn a contract.
But I also don't support the people who are saying anything worse than what I just said, nor do I support any of the supposed hatred and pictures which I haven't seen. Yeah, ladder ranking is all that people should consider when giving someone an opportunity to play on a team................. :o edit - Go SlayerS! And go BoxeR!!!!!!! <3 I didn't mean to imply that ladder ranking was the only important factor, but I do think it's quite a bit more important than gender and looks, which have been explicitly stated as reasons why she was added to the team.If you were in grandmasters on KR, playing against professionals, how would you feel when your chance to join a team is taken by someone else because she's a girl and you're a guy? I know a lot of people support affirmative action in e-Sports, but I'm not one of them. yes this is why people have to check their information is this information comes from thisisgame.com it was a speculation of the journalist not an actual statement of the team check it for yourself : http://thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=703754&category=102 From the OP: She was not selected through the pro-gamer casting system, but she is someone I selected for the team to help start having female competitors in Starcraft 2 Maybe I was wrong about the looks part, but my point stands. Gender shouldn't be a factor at all. Why shouldn't gender be a factor? It's their team, and they want to do more than just make a strong team - they want to help e-Sports grow. If you watched BoxeR's Wings, you'd see the sheer amount of passion and effort Jessica and BoxeR put into creating their team. Finding sponsors, finding a team house, all while Jessica took care of BoxeR while BoxeR practiced for the GSL. And after all that hard work from scratch, suddenly they can't recruit whoever they damn well please? What's with this idealistic sense of entitlement? They can pick whomever they want. All I've said is that I don't support those decisions. Eve hasn't earned anything.
By your logic, one could argue that, for example, SlayerS picking up Alicia was also an unfair decision that you wouldn't support. Alicia lost in the recruitment tournament, yet BoxeR picked him up anyway because apparently he encountered Alicia on the ladder or something and saw potential in him. In other words, Alicia didn't make it into SlayerS because of just being good (having lost in the recruitment tournament) - he made it in because he was lucky enough to run into BoxeR in the past so that BoxeR could form a good opinion of him. There very well may have been plenty of other more-deserving players (if you go by skill as the only factor for deserving recruitment). And, you definitely don't "earn" BoxeR evaluating you as someone with potential - you simply have that potential or you don't. Thus, I don't really see how "earning" recruitment has to do with anything.
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Im glad shes taking action action against the ass holes
You people act like every single GD person who joins a team is a pro sc2 high level player
tons of people (males) quit SC BW and join a SC2 team with no experience in SC2 and Im sorry but BW is WAYYYY different then SC2
you people who cry about her joining cause shes not a GM, is only making a big deal over it cause shes a female
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Total support for you, Jessica!!
I cannot wrap my head around the idea how people can have problems with a girl joining a team...
All these sexist shit postings make me feel sick....
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On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote:
Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others.
The world has limited resources. Every person born consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others.
Using your logic, should we not be allowed to bring anymore children into the world?
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On July 22 2011 05:49 Vaelone wrote:I can't really understand lawsuits over what unimportant people say in the internet but different cultures are different I guess. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:01 SlayerS_Jessica wrote:
But I am hurt that even some among you would attack us without the full evidence.
Do note that it's indeed only some, theres always bound to be some morons in all bigger communities that love to hide behind the monitor and then group up and attack one of the easier targets, in this case the first girl to be introduced in GSL. In any case I hope both Slayers and Eve do well!
Well what does she consider an attack in this case? It seems like she views everything from faces photoshopped on porn pictures to simply disagreeing with her and stating your opinion as an attack.
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It's nice to read that you and cielu have reconciled and made amends. I think you are doing the right thing in prosecuting these people because as you say they will enver stop and obviously some of them have crossed the line.
Also thank you for posting here and giving the other side of this so we get to see both sides.
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On July 22 2011 06:02 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:58 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:55 HolyArrow wrote:On July 22 2011 05:53 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:47 farnham wrote:On July 22 2011 05:40 FreezerJumps wrote:On July 22 2011 05:35 Charger wrote:On July 22 2011 05:25 FreezerJumps wrote:
I don't support Eve, because she doesn't deserve what she's been given. I don't support Jessica, because she's given an opportunity to someone far less deserving than the masters and gransmasters players who have done far more to earn a contract.
But I also don't support the people who are saying anything worse than what I just said, nor do I support any of the supposed hatred and pictures which I haven't seen. Yeah, ladder ranking is all that people should consider when giving someone an opportunity to play on a team................. :o edit - Go SlayerS! And go BoxeR!!!!!!! <3 I didn't mean to imply that ladder ranking was the only important factor, but I do think it's quite a bit more important than gender and looks, which have been explicitly stated as reasons why she was added to the team.If you were in grandmasters on KR, playing against professionals, how would you feel when your chance to join a team is taken by someone else because she's a girl and you're a guy? I know a lot of people support affirmative action in e-Sports, but I'm not one of them. yes this is why people have to check their information is this information comes from thisisgame.com it was a speculation of the journalist not an actual statement of the team check it for yourself : http://thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=703754&category=102 From the OP: She was not selected through the pro-gamer casting system, but she is someone I selected for the team to help start having female competitors in Starcraft 2 Maybe I was wrong about the looks part, but my point stands. Gender shouldn't be a factor at all. Why shouldn't gender be a factor? It's their team, and they want to do more than just make a strong team - they want to help e-Sports grow. If you watched BoxeR's Wings, you'd see the sheer amount of passion and effort Jessica and BoxeR put into creating their team. Finding sponsors, finding a team house, all while Jessica took care of BoxeR while BoxeR practiced for the GSL. And after all that hard work from scratch, suddenly they can't recruit whoever they damn well please? What's with this idealistic sense of entitlement? They can pick whomever they want. All I've said is that I don't support those decisions. Eve hasn't earned anything. By your logic, one could argue that, for example, SlayerS picking up Alicia was also an unfair decision that you wouldn't support. Alicia lost in the recruitment tournament, yet BoxeR picked him up anyway because apparently he encountered Alicia on the ladder or something and saw potential in him. In other words, Alicia didn't make it into SlayerS because of just being good (having lost in the recruitment tournament) - he made it in because he was lucky enough to run into BoxeR in the past so that BoxeR could form a good opinion of him. There very well may have been plenty of other more-deserving players (if you go by skill as the only factor for deserving recruitment). And, you definitely don't "earn" BoxeR evaluating you as someone with potential - you simply have that potential or you don't. Thus, I don't really see how "earning" recruitment has to do with anything.
Alicia was recruited for skill and potential, which are important. Eve was picked up because she's a girl, which is not important.
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I would say that even though this may not be an "overreaction" I still believe you shouldn't let people on the internet get to you so much. Maybe it is just a cultural difference between where I live and Korea, but you really can't let these kids on the internet affect you. I think everyone in the west is extremely familiar with trolls these days and realise that people will say anything on the internet to get a rise out of people.
Really this has all gone a little far, I think the whole scene is feeling alot of stress recently rofl.
Anyway I wish SlayerS all the best in the future, and I hope we can all ignore the haters and do what we all love the best, actually PLAY STARCRAFT
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On July 22 2011 06:04 Raeleigh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote:
Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. The world has limited resources. Every person born consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. Using your logic, should we not be allowed to bring anymore children into the world?
No worries the majority here will never be close enough to a woman they didn't pay for to bring children into this world.
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On July 22 2011 05:56 carloselcoco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:49 ranshaked wrote:On July 22 2011 05:45 farnham wrote:On July 22 2011 05:41 ranshaked wrote:
Well written but I still disagree with you for blocking me on twitter. You're still an over reActive typical female. I wasn't being rude to you. You've lost my following by jumping to conclusions with me. You are a hypocrite.
She isn't a professional. (eve). She's a gimmick as we would call it in America. It's a monetary and organized push for something that will never be. My team does it as well. In fact last night I allowed a female to start in the league match because of the same reason. Sex appeal and the glamor of a woman player.
This happens every day and it's pathetic to waste court resources when their are many other serious issues going on. so you are from the future ? Female gaming will never be up to par with male gaming. It's like any other sport. It's funny how this is called sexism. When the only reason she was chosen was because she is a female Re-read your post and you will find out why it is a sexist remark.... This is a cookie cutter case of affirmative action.
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Signing girl gamers is awesome. I think more teams should look into it as long as their at the appropriate skill level. EvE is not on that level. For Slayers, this is a good move to bring in media, and a better vibe to the whole Slayers organization. I just don't think suddenly signing a "ametuer" for the sake of being original, and diverse is a good idea.
I do condemn all those for the hate mail, and humiliating a innocent girl. In any circumstance, you should never send hate mail. What is that going to accomplish? People that send hate mail need to look in the mirror. Hyporcrits.
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SlayerS FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On July 22 2011 05:53 FreezerJumps wrote:
Maybe I was wrong about the looks part, but my point stands. Gender shouldn't be a factor at all.
... well.
Shouldn't that decision be up to whatever team wants to try to train their player? I don't see any bad male player getting all that hate shit that's going on here ... I mean, maybe they think that she has the potential to make it, and IF she does, it will do wonders for them, while the chance of her making it, isn't very different from any potential male wanting to join that isn't ready ...
One thing is criticism but ...
1) It's up to Slayers how they want to run their team. If they do poorly, they won't be popular, and they will lose. Not anyone else's problem.
2) It's not an either or. I am pretty sure they don't have a max limit of players they associate with, and if I remember it correctly, Slayers in particular, have a lot of associated players, that aren't really top notch, but they believe can be trained.
3) If someone truly hates that someone is used 'in a marketing ploy', you should really hate the people choosing to do that, and not the person being used. It's fucking retarded.
So stand by that all you want, me personally, I feel it's just like if soccer fans hating their own player and thinking 'Hey, Park isn't a real Manchester united player, he is just a marketing ploy to sell shit in Asia, and then going on to destroy his car, fuck up his house, give him death threats, while if they were really that fucking stupid, they should go after the owners instead of the player. You know, the people who actually the decision.
If someone does something you dislike, why the %T¤"# can't people be intelligent enough to hate on the people actually making the decision ...
I think the people that photoshopped the images etc, deserves everything that is coming their way ...
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I respect what Jessica is doing and hope this all becomes a foot note in the epic legacy of SlayerS. I think a lot of this outrage is bogus. Its their team, they can do as they see fit. Perhaps sending a wave of positive tweets/messages would be a nice thing to do and obscure all the rage for a little while? Give her a chance to breathe.
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On July 22 2011 06:04 Raeleigh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote:
Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. The world has limited resources. Every person born consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. Using your logic, should we not be allowed to bring anymore children into the world?
Using his logic we should not spend time surfing TL and posting as this consumes electricity and therefore gas which is non-renewable. 
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On July 22 2011 06:04 Raeleigh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:01 FreezerJumps wrote:
Fine, if it's going to be like that, I'll remove examples and make this as definitive as possible. Slayers has limited resources. Eve consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. The world has limited resources. Every person born consumes those resources. There are fewer resources left for others. Using your logic, should we not be allowed to bring anymore children into the world?
no we should increase productivity
same with the slayers team
they should try to get more sponsors and promote the growth of the industry
getting a female progamer can help you get sponsors and can help ignite interest in the industry. its a good thing if there wasnt those elitists that think they are shareholders of slayers or something
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On July 22 2011 05:33 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:14 QuAnTuM314 wrote:
You have my 100% support. I felt the entire post around the "over-reaction", and all of the hate that was directed towards Slayers_eve slightly humiliating to find within the supposed standards of Team Liquid. I'd always liked to assume that the user base of this website was above the standards of most internet gatherings, though I have to now admit that is only those noticeable posters on TL that give it its shine.
I wish you all the best of luck in anything you can do to protect your team, and more specifically Eve. I really hope that this experience hasn't scarred her too much in relation to pro gaming, as there is no better place for her to improve and to create her own spotlight than with your team. The TL response was quite mature. Yes there were some jokes but most of the discussion was serious and was about the place of women gamers (who are significantly worse than their male counterparts) within the competitive landscape. There wasn't any direct harassment or bullying, and the jokes were mild and the usual that most people get. Teamliquid is already heavily moderated/controlled (see SCreddit for an example of what the "real" population thinks, without TL mod's deciding what is/isn't allowed as a topic of discussion), so I don't see any reason for TL to apologize in any way.
You misunderstand my point. I dont feel that TeamLiquid needs to apologise, and certainly the mods keep this place far tidier and appealing than most places. I was more referring to the lack of understanding and unwillingness to think or discuss the situation, rather than an actual act that requires an apology from anyone. The vast vast majority of content found on team liquid is dealt with a far more level head and fairness, and I was only commenting that it was a false delusion of mine to expect perfection from a huge gathering of internet goers.
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I admire how you protect your players. Slayers Jessica/Boxer/Eve Fighting!!!
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EPT
