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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. | ||
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Raeleigh
Canada902 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:18 carloselcoco wrote: LOLOLOLOL!!! I hope you learn to read in the future mate. I said it because you waste Oil, not because you waste the electricity.... LOLOLOLOL!!! I hope you learn to read in the future buddy. I showed you that electricity is made by other things BESIDES oil or gas. Thus you're not wasting the oil or gas. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
I wish them nothing but the best. | ||
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
On July 22 2011 05:12 Postman wrote: Bloodless murder? Why are you being so dramatic? What these people are doing is wrong, but it's certainly not akin to murder of any kind. I hope that this gets settled and the flaming stops, almost everyone on TL supports SlayerS and every member of it. Because like any form of mobbing, there are people who take it to heart. Some have taken their lives, even in Western societies where, as one may argue, people are used to online harassment. It is sad that some individuals bash people like Eve (who haven't done anything worth condemning), it is even worse that this can have a profound effect on these people, but ultimately, even punishment won't keep people from bashing others. It's just a desperate attempt to fight the symptoms of a failing system of social control. | ||
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rknDA1337
Sweden1 Post
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DirtYLOu
575 Posts
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:23 Icekommander wrote: Two things: A) It was a big deal for FXO to go from Diamond > Masters because the korean ladder was bugged, and wasn't promoting them properly. Not because it was a new achievement in skill B) Even on other servers, High Masters and a Dollar will get you something from a vending machine. Even the small weekly tournaments are generally won by Grandmasters players, if not actual progamers. Oh, right, I forgot about the point you made in (A). My apologies, same goes for (B). I still stand by my (belated) edit though | ||
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short
Sweden148 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:21 FreezerJumps wrote: Since you insist that I respond to this, here it is: Slayers must have some implicit formula that determines whether or not a player is worthy of joining the team. This includes skill, potential, etc. But it also clearly includes gender. They didn't pick her just because she's a girl, but they did pick her because she's (presumably) the best girl according to their formula. My argument is that gender should not be in the formula at all. They should be recruiting players purely based on assets that are relevant to the game. If the bar must be lowered for female players, I still think it should remain quite a bit higher than where Eve is. Why shouldn't gender be relevant? Are you against women's sports in general? A lot of sports (the majority?) have female only tournaments/leagues/etc. There's women's football, women's gymnastics, women's chess, women's billiards and so on. Are you against these competitions as well? | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:12 cz wrote: This is part of the problem though. You are only happy to see Eve on the team because of her sexuality ("otherwise you must be gay"), and nothing more. If her sexuality is what leads you to give her a positive reaction, you can't be surprised that others attack her based on her sexuality. It should either be respect her as a player, not a sexual creature, or not be surprised she is being targeted for her gender. Can't have it both ways. The problem with gender started way before this though. Female gamers get obscene amounts of crap every time they place a game. Socially ostracized and verbally abused because they are different from the "norm". Every single game is like this, so it is understandable that the talent pool for female gamers is not a profound and that of male gamers. The segregation happened a long time ago. Unless someone steps up and takes a chance, the cycle will continue and male gamers will be overwhelmingly if not the only professional gamers around. Bringing on Eve is hopefully the first of many and is (as I see it) a kind of olive branch to other females to become more involved in eSports. Provide a tangible goal through the abuse and taunts that IS disproportionately thrown at them and perhaps steadily make females less and less "closet gamers". Her gender is indeed (sadly) a central focus here, you are right, but instead of taking it as giving massive group of people a chance to shine, many cynically see it in a shallow sexual manner. Normally we rarely see or give a game about the gender divide in gaming, Jessica brought it to the forefront and it willing to do something about it instead of letting it remain the status quo. Hopefully there will be enough ambitious women playing SC2 and other games that they can have the luxury of selecting them purely on merit and skill, but right now that is only a small facet of the issue here. The larger issue is finding a girl willing to stand up publicly and call herself and aspiring pro-gamer without being target and disproportionately abused by the general public. Eve is once such female and instead of backing down Jessica and SlayerS is helping her forward in the face of this prejudice. (Which looking through a lot of the posts, there definitely is in the community). Even if Eve showed up as the "super hyper Gosu bonjwa of bonjwa's", the community at large would STILL have given her abuse and taunts for being a girl in gaming. Perhaps Jessica could have handled things slightly differently with regards to the GSTL, everything is better in hind-sight, but the public's reaction while semi-expected is still unacceptable. Which is why overall I support her decision to not back down to the trolls on this one. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
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Bandino
United States342 Posts
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:25 cz wrote: Alright, you didn't say that you must be gay to not be happy, you said if you are angry you must be gay. Effectively the same thing. Why would being gay or not gay matter? Why bring it up? OK, please re-read what you quoted me for and realize that the answer to your question is in what you quoted.... It would have been harder to point it out clearer I said that only a gay could care less about her sex | ||
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Rainxbow
Netherlands2 Posts
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Dinosaur
Denmark112 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:21 Beyonder wrote: Oh stop being so overly sensitive. This is the first girl given proper training partners and practice, and she has shown potential already. What on earth does this hurt anyone? I really cant understand why people make such a fuss over everything these days.. It really makes me sad to see everyone bickering over something that should either (i) be seen as positive, or (ii) not be a bother to anyone. Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization. - Agent Smith My full support to Slayers and Jessica. Its good to see someone stand up to the bullies. | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
I hope the image of TL to Boxer & Jessica has not been ruined by the very small minority that have been overtly negative in an immature way. 99.99% of TL loves Boxer, and I remember reading the excitement in the LR thread when Eve was sitting on the bench of Slayers - even if she wasn't going to play, it added alot to talk about (in a good way). Keep going strong! Go Boxer! Go Slayers! | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:25 Raeleigh wrote: LOLOLOLOL!!! I hope you learn to read in the future buddy. I showed you that electricity is made by other things BESIDES oil or gas. Thus you're not wasting the oil or gas. Once again read AND UNDERSTAND what I said. I am not pointing out anything about electricity, I am pointing out something about an nonrenewable resource! | ||
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ToRC
United States7 Posts
However you have to look at both sides of the story. Take Eve compared to some of the GrandMasters and even Masters in Korea. I highly doubt she is as good as them At The Moment. But why give her the opportunity over someone better that if surrounded by the same trainers and partners that Eve is could most likely perform better. I am not trying to be sexist only trying to look at this from a Neutral view. I am happy to see Jessica standing up for the player but at the same time as posted above this most likely could have been avoided. | ||
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WArped
United Kingdom4845 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:25 cz wrote: Alright, you didn't say that you must be gay to not be happy, you said if you are angry you must be gay. Effectively the same thing. Why would being gay or not gay matter? Why bring it up? This has nothing to do with this situation. Just ignore the stupid post about being gay and just support Jessica for protecting Eve and support Eve on her new progaming venture with one of the best, if not the best, Starcraft 2 teams out there. On July 22 2011 06:30 ToRC wrote: In my honest opinion, and im not trying to add fuel to the fire, but both sides of the argument have some flaws to them. Don't get me wrong SlayerS_Eve has the possibility of becoming great and I would love to see it happen. She is a Diamond League Korean League player (which in the NA server is Masters I believe?) and she has the potential. She is surrounded by great training partners and if she puts the effort into it she could probably do great. However you have to look at both sides of the story. Take Eve compared to some of the GrandMasters and even Masters in Korea. I highly doubt she is as good as them At The Moment. But why give her the opportunity over someone better that if surrounded by the same trainers and partners that Eve is could most likely perform better. I am not trying to be sexist only trying to look at this from a Neutral view. I am happy to see Jessica standing up for the player but at the same time as posted above this most likely could have been avoided. One of the reasons she was picked up was because she was one of the best female gamers in Korea at the time and included her to boost the popularity of eSports amongst other female gamers, and they obviously saw her potential. They have the right to recruit anyone they want anyway, it's not under any strict terms or rules. | ||
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Duckvillelol
Australia1241 Posts
Continue fighting SlayerS, Jessica, and Eve  | ||
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LoKi-
United States121 Posts
This was a fantastic post. Thank you for coming here and explaining to us your reasoning and the "whole story." I wish you all the best of luck, and I'm horrified by some of the hatred you've encountered. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:28 carloselcoco wrote: OK, please re-read what you quoted me for and realize that the answer to your question is in what you quoted.... It would have been harder to point it out clearer You did not say that. You said that if you are angry, you must be gay. That logically implies that if you are not gay (straight), then you cannot be angry that she was selected. But why would that be? What changes between gay and straight people? Oh, sexual attraction to women. So you are isolating sexual attraction as being required in order to be happy ("not angry") that she was selected. This is just basic logic that leads to that final statement, which basically reduces her to a sexual object rather than a starcraft player joining a team on merit. User was warned for this post | ||
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