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On July 21 2011 17:28 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:26 MrSexington wrote:On July 21 2011 17:25 IcedBacon wrote:
So sirscoots has taken an hour and counting to write up a simple statement detailing what happened with the deal. That says a lot. Oh snap, SirScoots is officially on the clock. lol. (Seriously, it's the middle of the night. I wouldn't read too much into it if no official statements were released until tomorrow morning.) He's made two tweets since then, he's awake and clearly aware of the shitstorm that's occurring. It would be idiotic if he's not working to do something about it.
Or maybe he doesn't want to write a formal press release while he's half-awake?
A week from now I doubt anyone will remember the time when SirScoots took 12 hours to write up a response and opposed to the 2 hours he took to write a response.
You're reading too much into it.
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On July 21 2011 17:21 red4ce wrote:Google translate showed the word Gentlemen (Puma's other ID) so yeah it's probably relating to this situation.
no, he does not say anything about puma/gentlemen.
he just says "we must trust each other" and kinda goes on a rant about random things.
july 15th is totally unrelated thing.
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On July 21 2011 17:29 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:27 vojnik wrote:
i see many people are so naive and live in a fairy tale
if you think koreans wont do the same having the opurtunity EG had you are soooo wrong
DIMAGA was directly approached by Startale during World vs Korea games in GSL
Many people talk about Puma like he is an object or property, he was given an offer, the thought it trough and decided its a better step for his life and carrier, if there was some breach in contract there are LEGAL tools people can use instead of whining. Source please?
Not to mention, here's what I wrote earlier:
On July 21 2011 16:55 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:53 mdma-_- wrote:
startale also offered dimaga a contract when he was in korea. He refused.
I dont think startale approached mtw's management back them. How come nobody was furious about that? Its no different, just that the deal didnt work out.
..because it could have been the same type of contract that Torch got? You know, the one that only stipulates that he needs to represent ST in Korea, but VT Gaming outside. It was basically the same type of thing SK is doing. This is totally different.
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On July 21 2011 17:28 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:26 ShiShKeBab wrote:
Now it hardly matters anymore that this was or was not an OK move by EG, it's going to harden Foreign - Korea relations, perhaps incidents will add upp until SC2 gets bad rep in Kor and it may remain an epiphenomenom in Korean Esports - this should be sad new for all who like to see SC2 endure the way SC has.
Besides if the teams become to unstable and just buy the best players left and right, then what will be the point in being a fan of a team. I'll keep supporting Idra, Incontrol and Demuslim but the only teams that i can support are those who have faith in their lineup and recruit promising up-and-coming players that can become legacy of the team. This is more like a free-agent than buying someone out. EG needed a good terran on their team for practice partners, they are just deepening their lineup.
From what i've understood is that most players in KOR are technically free-agents right now as the teams can't give deals that motivate signing contracts
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I wasn't aware that you are required to negotiate with coaches first? Is there some sort of rule that states this? Until something like this is regulated it's business as usual.
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On July 21 2011 17:26 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:24 Defacer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:19 FryktSkyene wrote:On July 21 2011 17:18 Defacer wrote:
It's a shame that TSL lost their ace player.
At the same time, a contract with a player is meaningless if it has no value attached to it. Is it really true that Puma didn't make a salary? If that's the case, how much loyalty could TSL reasonably expect? And who would blame EG for making an offer on an obviously excellent player with nothing to lose and everything to gain?
FXO just bought a whole team, essentially. Not many people are boo-hooing that.
Trying to acquire the best players happens regularly in professional sports.
Your stupid. Fou reached out to Fxo to sponser them. /your post True enough. So FXO is sponsoring Fou. No explain to me what the big deal is with EG essentially offering a great player a job? If an another employer offered you a substantial raise to work for them, are you or this prospective employer obligated in anyway to contact you? Not really. /yourself. It's called respect. You know, it's kinda important when a community is relatively young without any real structure.
TSL disrespected Puma by not giving him adequate incentive to stay.
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On July 21 2011 17:29 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:28 Lifter wrote:On July 21 2011 17:25 iba001 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:23 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 17:21 iba001 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:08 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 17:07 Lifter wrote:
Chinese thought the same thing about Bruce Lee when he taught foreigners how to fight... LOL they thought foreigners were disgusting for signing a contracted teacher? ahaha so far off the mark bruce lee taught secrets of the fist to those who were not worthy. puma will teach secrets of the mouse to those who are not worthy. therefore, puma = bruce lee. :b except puma was under a contract with another team before signing with eg.. bruce lee was under no obligation to teach anyone at all.. and certainly wasnt in a contract that involved him exclusively teaching 'those who were worthy' lol dude i was just kidding around. chill out. IceSlipper, you clearly lack any form of humor. Please remove yourself from this thread yeah you definitely need humor to participate in a discussion!
Hey we got one guy saying boycott EG sponsors, we have another fella who doesn't understand the term semi final. So I'd yes you do need humor to participate
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On July 21 2011 17:31 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:30 vojnik wrote:On July 21 2011 17:29 Fionn wrote:On July 21 2011 17:27 vojnik wrote:
i see many people are so naive and live in a fairy tale
if you think koreans wont do the same having the opurtunity EG had you are soooo wrong
DIMAGA was directly approached by Startale during World vs Korea games in GSL
Many people talk about Puma like he is an object or property, he was given an offer, the thought it trough and decided its a better step for his life and carrier, if there was some breach in contract there are LEGAL tools people can use instead of whining. Source please? Dimaga said that in an interview while he was in the GOM House so uh source please? you saying he said something is not source you know
He said it, it might be in kelly milkis justin tv channel in an old vod.
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Awesome news!
I don't see why people are getting butt-hurt? You wanted koreans in the foreigner scene forever...and now we're getting them?
TSL do NOT pay salleries, FD and Tester were the only salleried players. If a player, wants to leave an organisation in which he puts 10 hours a day in...for virtually the CHANCE to make a living, would rather give that up to make a stable living, then that is perfectly fine by me.
EG asked him if he wanted to join, I don't see the big deal, Puma obviously wanted to join a foreigner team.
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Why do people say 'don't buy stuff from the companies that sponsor EG', when they sponsor more than EG (fnatic), and better yet, sponsor e-sports. Come on, don't be so childish.
Then again, TB did an audio blog about this, and the fact that PC gamers never hold true to their protests anyways.
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On July 21 2011 17:30 Shewklad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:27 Jiddra wrote:On July 21 2011 17:19 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 17:18 Jiddra wrote:On July 21 2011 17:16 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 17:13 Jiddra wrote:
Puma leaves a TSL that is falling apart, the Koreans get to feel how it really is to want a GLOBAL star league and not only a "Korean takes foreign money while everyone else is watching".
Time to wake up Korea, shit just got real in the global economi. Will be very interesting to see what will come out of this. There has already been some talks in sweden about the need for some sort of global orgaisation for shit like this to get sorted out.
Now the koreans might also push in that direction, only good things can come out of this deal, and we haven't even heard EGs side of it yet.
Are you serious? Have you read none of the other posts in this thread? And I assume you don't take TSL into consideration when saying that. What is so wrong? You don't think TSL thinks this is a bad thing? You do think that Puma will get the same training with EG as he did in the TSL house? And all the countless other things that have already been posted in this thread. You are missing the point. TSL was loosing player left and right, how they would only be able to survive beacuse of Puma is just bullshit fanboys talk. They will make it or die, like in any economi. Shit just got real, Puma will do good things for EG for a long time to come, just look at their rooster now. And if we get more regulation and rules about how proffesional SC2 teams, players and tournaments should be organisated globaly it is all for the better. EG is just the first to truly test the global player market. I'm not missing any point, I fully understand "Only good things can come ot of this deal" - MY point is that you can't look at it that one sided, you have to take all parts into consideration.
Like the global perspective and not just the korean?
Ok
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On July 21 2011 17:29 wats0n wrote:
The point about contracts isn't that Puma didn't have one. It's that he didn't break one. He didn't leave for EG while still under contract.
TSL has released him so you don't know that he would not have played out the contract. In my opinion, the only reason they release him is because the benefit of releasing him and saving face outweighs the probably short remaining time on his deal.
That they would rather publicly embarrass him than let him play out his deal is low class and I have no sympathy for them.
Pretty much what I think happened is, EG talked with Puma, saying they would like him to join and why. Then Puma goes back to Korea and tells TSL he wants to join EG and would like to be released from TSL in order to join EG now or he would just when his contract (if he had one) ended. Puma would have been joining EG at the end of the contract imo too. TSL decided they might as well let him go since it isn't worth keeping him for the rest of his contract (who knows how much time was even left on it).
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On July 21 2011 17:32 enecateReAP wrote:
Awesome news!
I don't see why people are getting butt-hurt? You wanted koreans in the foreigner scene forever...and now we're getting them?
TSL do NOT pay salleries, FD and Tester were the only salleried players. If a player, wants to leave an organisation in which he puts 10 hours a day in...for virtually the CHANCE to make a living, would rather give that up to make a stable living, then that is perfectly fine by me.
EG asked him if he wanted to join, I don't see the big deal, Puma obviously wanted to join a foreigner team.
Milkis:
@ZimiRabid Yeah, nothing of that is clear. But it's still true TSL had a salary for every player o_o
They all got salaries, okay?
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Another thing - even if EG did no wrong, not doing their best to avoid "drama" by 1.) giving TSL management a courtesy call and 2.) having a prepared statement ready the moment the contract was signed is a poor move, because it potentially has a negative impact on Puma. It's quite possible that they could have gotten TSL's blessing, but instead they have a situation where former teammates are treating him like a sellout and the Korean community response seems to be turning on him. This might affect both his mental outlook and his ability to get good practice, no? Is EG stumbling out of the gate by not protecting the best interest of their newest player by just omitting relatively simple steps?
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WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING PUMA DID NOT HAVE A CONTRACT
no one knows about this, so stop saying that and wait until we get more information. jesus.
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United States23455 Posts
On July 21 2011 17:32 enecateReAP wrote:
Awesome news!
I don't see why people are getting butt-hurt? You wanted koreans in the foreigner scene forever...and now we're getting them?
TSL do NOT pay salleries, FD and Tester were the only salleried players. If a player, wants to leave an organisation in which he puts 10 hours a day in...for virtually the CHANCE to make a living, would rather give that up to make a stable living, then that is perfectly fine by me.
EG asked him if he wanted to join, I don't see the big deal, Puma obviously wanted to join a foreigner team.
What? TSL does pay salaries.
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On July 21 2011 17:32 enecateReAP wrote:
TSL do NOT pay salleries, FD and Tester were the only salleried players. If a player, wants to leave an organisation in which he puts 10 hours a day in...for virtually the CHANCE to make a living, would rather give that up to make a stable living, then that is perfectly fine by me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201086
at least get your facts right?
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On July 21 2011 17:31 ShiShKeBab wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:28 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:26 ShiShKeBab wrote:
Now it hardly matters anymore that this was or was not an OK move by EG, it's going to harden Foreign - Korea relations, perhaps incidents will add upp until SC2 gets bad rep in Kor and it may remain an epiphenomenom in Korean Esports - this should be sad new for all who like to see SC2 endure the way SC has.
Besides if the teams become to unstable and just buy the best players left and right, then what will be the point in being a fan of a team. I'll keep supporting Idra, Incontrol and Demuslim but the only teams that i can support are those who have faith in their lineup and recruit promising up-and-coming players that can become legacy of the team. This is more like a free-agent than buying someone out. EG needed a good terran on their team for practice partners, they are just deepening their lineup. From what i've understood is that most players in KOR are technically free-agents right now as the teams can't give deals that motivate signing contracts
Then KOR teams either need to move to another country for more tournaments and sponsors for their player or die due to a failing KOR market for SC2.
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On July 21 2011 17:31 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:30 vojnik wrote:On July 21 2011 17:29 Fionn wrote:On July 21 2011 17:27 vojnik wrote:
i see many people are so naive and live in a fairy tale
if you think koreans wont do the same having the opurtunity EG had you are soooo wrong
DIMAGA was directly approached by Startale during World vs Korea games in GSL
Many people talk about Puma like he is an object or property, he was given an offer, the thought it trough and decided its a better step for his life and carrier, if there was some breach in contract there are LEGAL tools people can use instead of whining. Source please? Dimaga said that in an interview while he was in the GOM House link
I dont have the link, dont know how to find it really but it was an interview conducted by Kelly and Doa on a stream after Dimaga won vs Nestea in the GOM house, it was with all the players.
Dimaga said that he was not interested because he didnt want to leave his girlfriend and family (because they asked him to move to korea)
I will try and search for the video, was a long time ago
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I don't understand how this is terrible by either Puma or EG.
I have a job, I'm contracted and have a salary. I get job offers by other companies every now and then, I talk to them about what they offer and when I find something I prefer to my current work situation (be it better pay, better work environment or what have you) I go tell my current boss that I have gotten a better offer and I resign my position. According to basic Swedish employee law (which is in my contract) I have to stay on for 3 month after quitting (to give my employee a chance to find a replacement) BUT we can negotiate this time down to 0 days if both parts agree.
It seems like this was exactly what happened in the Puma-EG case and I don't see anything wrong with it, at all. If TSL wanted to hold Puma to his contract, they could probably have and EG would have had to wait until it expired. They chose not to, in agreement with Puma. Case closed.
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EPT
