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On July 21 2011 16:23 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:19 NDsOdapOp wrote:On July 21 2011 16:15 monx wrote:
EG is ruining Esports. im sorry but thats hilarious..... would you care yo elaborate on how EG is "ruining" Esports, cause it seems to me as thought they are only making good business deals which people are blowing out of proportion and they are helping to merge the Korean and foreign communities. Lol, really? To quote Milkis: "Korean Netizens are quite outraged. Although one of them noted that "not surprising since it's Idra's team" 1 hour ago "Also, I'm going to fully expect the Korean SC2 Association to do something about this and make some sort of solid FA policy." 56 minutes ago "@hazelynutsc2 clear difference between american thought and korean thought and that americans are pretty disrespectful for thinking its okay" 52 minutes ago "Korean Netizens also very disappointed in Puma. Not surprised. If you're surprised then you need to understand our culture a bit better" 35 minutes ago "FYI: It's a sign of RESPECT more than anything to talk to the team before contacting the player. I'm sure TSL feels very disrespected"
33 minutes agoHelping to merge the Korean and foreigner communities, my ass dude. This set it WAYYYYY back.
KEYWORD there.
RESPECT
I'm not againts what EG did, i think it was a good move. But the way they made it was not correct, its disrespectful to the Korean culture.
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some people really need to see that this sets a HORRIBLE PRECEDENT for Korean teams to send their players to foreign tournaments
Puma can decide whatever he wants, but instilling fear, suspicion, and paranoia that a KR team's player might end up being poached and taken away from them with minimal ability to do anything about it other than to keep their players in Korea is not a good step for SC2 e-sports
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On July 21 2011 16:25 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:18 DystopiaX wrote:On July 21 2011 16:15 Angelbelow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:06 youngminii wrote:On July 21 2011 16:01 TBO wrote:On July 21 2011 15:55 SmOkeYNaGaTa wrote:"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this" If teams wish to keep their players, then write a contract. The player gets room, board, a modest salary possibly in exchange for 6 months to a year of loyalty. Problem with this is that a contract won't help if your player wants to leave. Sure you can keep him and keep paying his salary but he won't perform to his normal level. That's also probably the reason TSL straight out decided to release him from his contract. Nonononono Nonono Let me fill you in on Koreans. Koreans have a level of kinship deeper than westerners. If you get together as a team, you will become very close. The coach is a father figure and he wanted what would make Puma happy. If Puma wanted to go and join another team then the coach would let him. This doesn't change the fact that EG is a complete joke of a team who didn't respect TSL as a team, didn't respect SC2 as a sport, didn't respect the Korean culture and they certainly don't respect Puma. The worst part is Puma had such a bright future ahead of him too. lol my korean genes are kicking in for the whole respect thing ==;; Thats certainly respectable. Team SHOULD be close. But if Puma left so easily, one could say that he lacks respect. BUT if the team is really supposed to be a family environment and the coach is supposed to be the dad, what does it say about the environment and the "dad" if theyve lost 4 of their most successful players in a matter of weeks? So that makes it ok for EG to go behind players backs? there's still a mangement structure there and polite protocols to go through regardless of the state of TSL. The point is that there is no management structure.
So who is this manager person that released a statement?
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On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad
EG is doing bad. An EG player hasn't won a major tournament since MLG DC, and calling that major is a stretch.
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On July 21 2011 16:24 EchoZ wrote:
I am hoping this won't leave a bad impression on foreign teams in general, especially TL and FXO.
well i'm quite certain coach lee is not going to talk about EG in a positive light after this. he was quite a prominent figure in bw and all the korean sc2 teams are quite close with each other so I can't imagine anything but a negative impact on the foreigner scene in korea.
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On July 21 2011 16:24 EchoZ wrote:
I am hoping this won't leave a bad impression on foreign teams in general, especially TL and FXO.
well, hopefully they remember the good times, and how other acquisitions of Korean players went along quite well.
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On July 21 2011 16:19 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:18 Mohdoo wrote:
To people defending EG/Puma here:
How exactly are you thinking Puma is going to continue to grow at a rate that can keep up with other Koreans? Not a single person on EG is capable of providing Puma the type of practice he used to get where he is, and no longer being a part of a team house is going to destroy his practice habits. EG is either going to be recruiting other Koreans to form a practice house of their own, or they have no idea how the SC2 scene works right now. This is what I'm wondering about too, actually. But no one seems to be responding to that concern...
I feel the exact same way, feels like there is a really high chance that PuMa's talent will just wither away. He might've really made a hasty decision, probably didn't do much of a background check on the EG roster (probably only had ever heard of Idra prior to joining) and assumed that EG is one of the leading foreign teams where he would have equals as training partners.
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Fruitdealer, Rain, Tester and Puma all suddenly leaving TSL. Fruitdealer, Rain and Tester due to their new direction / leadership and Puma without even talking to the coach before hand, wonder what the hell is going on over there.
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On July 21 2011 16:19 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:18 Mohdoo wrote:
To people defending EG/Puma here:
How exactly are you thinking Puma is going to continue to grow at a rate that can keep up with other Koreans? Not a single person on EG is capable of providing Puma the type of practice he used to get where he is, and no longer being a part of a team house is going to destroy his practice habits. EG is either going to be recruiting other Koreans to form a practice house of their own, or they have no idea how the SC2 scene works right now. This is what I'm wondering about too, actually. But no one seems to be responding to that concern...
Its very likely that he knows a lot of korean top players that wants to practice with him. Even IdrA had several pro korean practise partners and he wasn't exactly very friendly while he was there. There is no doubt in my mind that he has plenty of adequate practise partners. I think the problem is rather moving out of the korean pro house. It's been stated again and again that living in a pro house will benefit you tremendously, so it's going to be interesting to see how he does without the typical korean training regiment.
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On July 21 2011 16:18 freeloader625 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this"
Puma had left the TSL house as of the 20th.
What? Are you serious? Does no one see this but me? There has always been "a system to stop foreign teams from stealing players," its called "paying them." Puma wouldn't have made such a drastic change for nickles and dimes, EG obviously offered a substantial amount over whatever TSL gave him, if anything. I hope this opens up Korean teams eyes and force them to treat their players better.
LOL how naive. This is a matter of ethics. You guys talk about how this is business works, but let me tell you; business without proper ethics doesn't survive long (proof is out there). Business is all about building good relationships with potential partners / customers. And that's why you have to have good ethical understanding in order to grow your business. One of the top agenda for almost all good businesses is providing continous training in ethics to all of their employees, period. It's THAT important.
EG's move could have been very legal, but it was totally wrong in ethical standpoint. That's why many on here are pissed.
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On July 21 2011 16:24 lunchforthesky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:21 Fianchetto wrote:On July 21 2011 16:18 lunchforthesky wrote:On July 21 2011 16:17 A Wet Shamwow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:16 lunchforthesky wrote:
This is why we have KESPA. So people can't act this way. And so progammers can get underpayed and overworked! YEA! Feel free to continue ignoring all the good KESPA does and just focus on the bad. Puma going to EG isn't bad the the player, its good for the player. He actually gets a salary now! TSL were the only Korean team actually paying a salary. Regardless, it's perfectly fine for Puma to join EG if that's what he wants. However, EG should have gone through TSL management first, not approached the player. That is unprofessional and if Sc2 had any governing body ala Kespa it would be illegal. In football clubs are fined and even docked points for acting this way.
I agree with this. The fact that Coach Lee seems so pissed tells me that EG didn't really go through TSL with this.
Sure, the people saying "Yeah, that's just business" have a point. It IS just business. There's nothing illegal about what happened. But despite that, it certainly seems like a low move to ask another team's player to join your team without consulting his current team. Not illegal, but not respectful either.
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United States33388 Posts
So Puma was in a situation where he could leave TSL by request, and exercised that option when found a better opportunity for himself with another team?
I think that's freedom of labor working =o
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On July 21 2011 16:22 Midgetman101 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:45 Starfox wrote:On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:Manager Lee decided to respect the player's wishes in the end. He noted that "It's really disturbing. It feels like the player I raised was just stolen away from me.", adding that "There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this"
If no contract was broken by this agreement between Puma and EG that Lee guy should perhaps do something like: shut the fuck up? There is a system he 'needs', it's called: contracts LOL no respect for Coach Lee. You must be new to starcraft...
Yeah probably.
1. TSL was the first team to pay their players salaries.
2. Salary means that the players are most likely in a contract.
3. The words used by Coach Lee suggest that Puma was already in a contract with them.
4. EG manager talking directly to Puma is considered poaching since he was in a contract with TSL.
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On July 21 2011 16:26 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:23 oBlade wrote:
I definitely don't agree with Milkis here. Part of the Korean mind is its performance in a competitive environment. We definitely shouldn't flood Puma with guilt just because he made what he considered a forward decision for himself. And he doesn't have any duty to his people, nor has he committed any degree of betrayal by doing this. He betrayed his team.... he just packed his shit up and left. Coach Lee says he feels like he raised him. Are you sure you're Korean?
Because obviously all Koreans think alike. The fact that so many players have left TSL already should say something the relationship between TSL's management and TSL's players.
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SirScoots twitter :
SirScoots SirScoots
I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes
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On July 21 2011 15:02 BIGSTEVE808 wrote:
From Milkis' twitter:
Breaking news: Puma gets released from TSL due to Evil Geniuses. TSL's Coaches not happy.
EG must have given him a good salary. From what I hear, he probably didn't even have one with TSL.
From what I know, most of the pro players on sc2 teams in Korea have no salaries at all. No wonder why they're induced by the money foreign teams offer.
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I can see why Puma would do this. You can scream loyalty and honor all you want, but for his perspective this is by far the biggest move. Puma has never won a major championship before, and has never been a more wanted player.
Right now TSL is facing quite a few problems, several of there top guns have left. It could be coincidence, but I doubt it. Something behind the scenes is happening. I am guessing EG noticed as well, and when they saw how Puma was performing they approached him. Perhaps it wasn't the best way to go about it, but what was done was done. We don't know the whole story yet; perhaps Puma was complaining about TSL at the finals, perhaps team EG casually threw something out there to test the waters before trying to negotiate with TSL but Puma took the initiative. Not enough facts right now.
As for Puma, he may never perform this way again no matter what. Right now could be the highlight of his career, and he may be looking to benefit himself in multiple ways. This has three huge effects that I see. One is that it gets him out of the Korean spot light, and perhaps will help him with his nerves. There will be hell for a week than everything will be forgotten and on to the next drama, allowing Puma to do what he does best; play sc2. It also sets him up to be able to go to foreign events without much issues. TSL might not have been able to provide access to those foreign events while EG can. This can allow Puma to continue having success abroad without it all riding on one huge series in the GSL. The third, and perhaps biggest benefit is if shit hits the fan and Puma never once again performs well, he gets salaried while he is at his biggest point. This is his best bet for making the most amount of money. For a guy that has never had nearly as much success it has to be impossibly hard to resist any increase in salary, in the end he has to make a living doing this. This also kind of goes back to point one, now that he has a better salary and probably better contract, nerves are not nearly as likely to kick in and cause him big games.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that this is more than just a game we all love, this is Puma's career. He has to support himself with SC2. EG obviously set him up in a much better, probably safer situation than TSL ever could have offered. Would it be nice if we could all have perfect little home grown teams and life be full of roses? Of course it would be, but this is in the end, the real world. Many of us want E-sports to be legitimized, its not all good things that come from it. This is one of the negatives of modern day sports, and its to be expected of E-sports as well.
Call EG shady, Puma unfaithful, whatever you want, but try to look at it from there shoes. These guys are trying to make a living in a very harsh environment at the moment, and in the end if you are to soft you'll end up folding and failing at the very thing you wish to achieve. I hope that team TSL solves whatever issues they must be facing, and I hope Puma likes his new home with team EG.
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Why does anyone think his practice will degrade?
It doesn't say he's leaving Korea. It's normal to have many practice partners outside your team anyway, so why would he stop practising with them? Puma wouldn't get this good by just practising against Clide, FD and Trickster up to now. So he'll likely continue to practice with who he has been, maybe even including his own team.
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On July 21 2011 16:22 Bobble wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:19 Lexxes wrote:On July 21 2011 16:16 Shinrae wrote:
EG are the badguy team that make the American SC2 scene so good.
Just look at them in their dark shirts, their anger, hate and bm so well known.
All they need to complete this is a leaked photo of scoots in some dark robes feasting on a newborn whilst screaming for his minions to bring him the head of TLO.
Then we have TL. They're like the 'good' human guys in the story.
Much power, but under an oppressive ruler who silences anyone who dares mention the rise of the dark team. They will continue to play as normal, acting as if all is well in world of esports until it is too late.
Not until Incontrol destroys Huk on their hometurf will they realise that war is upon them.
I don't really follow the team drama's enough to work out the rest. But somehow mousesports, sixjax and all the others will have to band together, making an alliance with the Korean teams to slay EG.
All with CombatEx following behind mumbling to himself. yes, this sums up sc2 scene pretty much :-) well done he missed the part where FXO just walks in and buys everyone. 
FXO hasn't bought anyone. fOu was the one to come up with the merger.
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This just makes me hate EG even more. Yet this is so consistent with their wanton douchebaggery. iNcontrol, IdrA, screwing Team Liquid in their team league, and now stealing a player from a foreign teams behind its manager's back.
Stay Classy Guys.
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EPT
