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Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 53

Forum Index > SC2 General
7189 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 51 52 53 54 55 360 Next
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6629 Posts
July 21 2011 07:23 GMT
#1041
I definitely don't agree with Milkis here. Part of the Korean mind is its performance in a competitive environment. We definitely shouldn't flood Puma with guilt just because he made what he considered a forward decision for himself. And he doesn't have any duty to his people, nor has he committed any degree of betrayal by doing this.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1042
On July 21 2011 16:21 ReaperX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:18 Mohdoo wrote:
To people defending EG/Puma here:

How exactly are you thinking Puma is going to continue to grow at a rate that can keep up with other Koreans? Not a single person on EG is capable of providing Puma the type of practice he used to get where he is, and no longer being a part of a team house is going to destroy his practice habits. EG is either going to be recruiting other Koreans to form a practice house of their own, or they have no idea how the SC2 scene works right now.


The skill-gap between foreigners and Koreans is not huge, and I'm sure that not all his practice partners are better than the players in EG.


What? It's not only about practice partners. It's about the strict team house environment. IdrA says he practices like... 4 hours a day, which is a fraction of how much people in a Korean team house practice. If that's of any indication of EG's overall practice regime, then I don't really think Puma is going to get anywhere near as good practice with EG as he did in TSL.
Zulk
Profile Joined June 2010
United States20 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1043
sc2 just turned serious in the usa.. maybe because we can't play online poker >.<
Chicago Blackhawks
stickyhands
Profile Joined May 2011
187 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1044
I wont comment the fact that Puma been stolen or not; because you know its just all about business.
So ok, EG made a good acquisition, but now, how do Puma will trains -_-?
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1045
On July 21 2011 16:21 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:20 Karak wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:15 Zlasher wrote:
IRL sports example. If the player isn't contractually binded to a team, a team that wants that player goes to the agent, not the former team. If the player in case (Puma) were contractually binded to TSL, EG would have gone to the team obviously, like they did with Demuslim and MYM. When EG got Idra, they went after a free agent and got him, they didn't go to CJ Entus to ask for him when Idra isn't on CJ anymore


Right. And even further, unlike American sports leagues, there is no overall governing body over both teams, no CBA and no established precedent. So it's even freer than that system.

Dude Stfu if you don't know what you're talking about. TSL is under the Korean Sc2 association, a governing body that you speak of.

But EG isn't under that. So they really have no authority in this matter.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Fianchetto
Profile Joined September 2010
United States157 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1046
On July 21 2011 16:22 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:21 Fianchetto wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:18 lunchforthesky wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:17 A Wet Shamwow wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:16 lunchforthesky wrote:
This is why we have KESPA. So people can't act this way.

And so progammers can get underpayed and overworked! YEA!


Feel free to continue ignoring all the good KESPA does and just focus on the bad.

Puma going to EG isn't bad the the player, its good for the player. He actually gets a salary now!


Puma got a salary before. TSL pays their players salaries.

EG is just going to pay him more.

no contract bro



User was warned for this post
BFCrimson
Profile Joined August 2010
United States176 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1047
On July 21 2011 16:21 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:20 Karak wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:15 Zlasher wrote:
IRL sports example. If the player isn't contractually binded to a team, a team that wants that player goes to the agent, not the former team. If the player in case (Puma) were contractually binded to TSL, EG would have gone to the team obviously, like they did with Demuslim and MYM. When EG got Idra, they went after a free agent and got him, they didn't go to CJ Entus to ask for him when Idra isn't on CJ anymore


Right. And even further, unlike American sports leagues, there is no overall governing body over both teams, no CBA and no established precedent. So it's even freer than that system.

Dude Stfu if you don't know what you're talking about. TSL is under the Korean Sc2 association, a governing body that you speak of.


A very powerful, authoritative one at that apparently. Do we even know what that association does? A team like SlayerS doesn't seem to be too concerned about it
makkk
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany23 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1048
how dare you EG
Quesadilla
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1814 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1049
Having lived and worked in Korea, I can tell you absolutely for sure that the contract was probably pure garbage. They make them very vague and they aren't thorough at all. They expect that Korean culture and morale fills in all of the unwritten "rules", so I'm sure that it was so easy for him to leave because when it came down to it, they couldn't do anything legally binding.
Make a lot of friends. Wear good clothes. Drink good beer. Love a nice girl.
EchoZ
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Japan5041 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1050
I am hoping this won't leave a bad impression on foreign teams in general, especially TL and FXO.
Dear Sixsmith...
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
July 21 2011 07:24 GMT
#1051
On July 21 2011 16:21 Fianchetto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:18 lunchforthesky wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:17 A Wet Shamwow wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:16 lunchforthesky wrote:
This is why we have KESPA. So people can't act this way.

And so progammers can get underpayed and overworked! YEA!


Feel free to continue ignoring all the good KESPA does and just focus on the bad.

Puma going to EG isn't bad the the player, its good for the player. He actually gets a salary now!


TSL were the only Korean team actually paying a salary. Regardless, it's perfectly fine for Puma to join EG if that's what he wants. However, EG should have gone through TSL management first, not approached the player. That is unprofessional and if Sc2 had any governing body ala Kespa it would be illegal. In football clubs are fined and even docked points for acting this way.
trikshun
Profile Joined October 2010
United States437 Posts
July 21 2011 07:25 GMT
#1052
On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:
Team is doing poorly?
Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck.
Hope to win.


+ Show Spoiler +
EG

idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad
Angelbelow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3728 Posts
July 21 2011 07:25 GMT
#1053
On July 21 2011 16:18 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:15 Angelbelow wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:06 youngminii wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:01 TBO wrote:
On July 21 2011 15:55 SmOkeYNaGaTa wrote:
"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this"


If teams wish to keep their players, then write a contract. The player gets room, board, a modest salary possibly in exchange for 6 months to a year of loyalty.


Problem with this is that a contract won't help if your player wants to leave. Sure you can keep him and keep paying his salary but he won't perform to his normal level. That's also probably the reason TSL straight out decided to release him from his contract.

Nonononono
Nonono
Let me fill you in on Koreans.

Koreans have a level of kinship deeper than westerners. If you get together as a team, you will become very close. The coach is a father figure and he wanted what would make Puma happy. If Puma wanted to go and join another team then the coach would let him.

This doesn't change the fact that EG is a complete joke of a team who didn't respect TSL as a team, didn't respect SC2 as a sport, didn't respect the Korean culture and they certainly don't respect Puma.

The worst part is Puma had such a bright future ahead of him too.

lol my korean genes are kicking in for the whole respect thing ==;;


Thats certainly respectable. Team SHOULD be close.

But if Puma left so easily, one could say that he lacks respect. BUT if the team is really supposed to be a family environment and the coach is supposed to be the dad, what does it say about the environment and the "dad" if theyve lost 4 of their most successful players in a matter of weeks?

So that makes it ok for EG to go behind players backs? there's still a mangement structure there and polite protocols to go through regardless of the state of TSL.


The point is that there is no management structure.
You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth
FryktSkyene
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1327 Posts
July 21 2011 07:25 GMT
#1054
"FYI: It's a sign of RESPECT more than anything to talk to the team before contacting the player. I'm sure TSL feels very disrespected"
33 minutes ago

EVEN IF he wasen't under a contract.

EG is disrespectful. (according to the quote)

Why can't I dislike an disrespectful team?
Snitches get stiches
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
July 21 2011 07:25 GMT
#1055
On July 21 2011 16:24 Fianchetto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:22 Fionn wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:21 Fianchetto wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:18 lunchforthesky wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:17 A Wet Shamwow wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:16 lunchforthesky wrote:
This is why we have KESPA. So people can't act this way.

And so progammers can get underpayed and overworked! YEA!


Feel free to continue ignoring all the good KESPA does and just focus on the bad.

Puma going to EG isn't bad the the player, its good for the player. He actually gets a salary now!


Puma got a salary before. TSL pays their players salaries.

EG is just going to pay him more.

no contract bro



That "source" was some random guy on PlayXP. That's like me saying that Puma was under contract for 50,000 dollars a year. There's no substance there or no true source.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
IceSlipper
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Australia1028 Posts
July 21 2011 07:26 GMT
#1056
On July 21 2011 16:23 MrDudeMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:18 Mohdoo wrote:
To people defending EG/Puma here:

How exactly are you thinking Puma is going to continue to grow at a rate that can keep up with other Koreans? Not a single person on EG is capable of providing Puma the type of practice he used to get where he is, and no longer being a part of a team house is going to destroy his practice habits. EG is either going to be recruiting other Koreans to form a practice house of their own, or they have no idea how the SC2 scene works right now.


I really don't see how this is true. I'm pretty sure idra has gone as far in the GSL as all of the remaining TSL players. Not to mention that I'm sure Puma's friends will still practice with him.

open seasons of GSL are not the same as now.. look at idra's skill level now, still incredibly high, but he can't even be compared to the top koreans now.. even towards the end of idras time in korea the koreans were getting further and further ahead of him..
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-21 07:26:37
July 21 2011 07:26 GMT
#1057
Look, even if Puma wasn't under a TSL contract:

He accepted their training, took their coaching, played with their practice partners, and lived and dined in their team house on their dime. To leave suddenly without informing his team of negotiations first is still a pretty shitty thing to do.
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 21 2011 07:26 GMT
#1058
On July 21 2011 16:23 MrDudeMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:18 Mohdoo wrote:
To people defending EG/Puma here:

How exactly are you thinking Puma is going to continue to grow at a rate that can keep up with other Koreans? Not a single person on EG is capable of providing Puma the type of practice he used to get where he is, and no longer being a part of a team house is going to destroy his practice habits. EG is either going to be recruiting other Koreans to form a practice house of their own, or they have no idea how the SC2 scene works right now.


I really don't see how this is true. I'm pretty sure idra has gone as far in the GSL as all of the remaining TSL players. Not to mention that I'm sure Puma's friends will still practice with him.


This was a long time ago and the scene has changed tremendously. Idra has *still* yet to produce any notable results for a long time now. Idra was able to keep up by playing a gigantic amount while in Korea. Now he's not doing either of those and its extremely obvious. It still doesn't change the fact that Idra is a *SINGLE PERSON* and does nothing about the bigger issue, which is the practice environment of a team house surrounded by lots of other aspiring Korean pro-gamers.

Puma simply won't be able to keep up 3 months from now.
PHC
Profile Joined March 2011
United States472 Posts
July 21 2011 07:26 GMT
#1059
On July 21 2011 16:23 oBlade wrote:
I definitely don't agree with Milkis here. Part of the Korean mind is its performance in a competitive environment. We definitely shouldn't flood Puma with guilt just because he made what he considered a forward decision for himself. And he doesn't have any duty to his people, nor has he committed any degree of betrayal by doing this.



He betrayed his team.... he just packed his shit up and left. Coach Lee says he feels like he raised him. Are you sure you're Korean?
rickybobby
Profile Joined October 2010
United States405 Posts
July 21 2011 07:26 GMT
#1060
so is puma not living in a practice house now? also it sounds like EG did not respect the korean protocol of talking to the current team before acquiring the player. fd and tester foar instance talked to TSL before going to ST...
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