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manicshock
Canada741 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:56 Mortal wrote: he was top rated in terms of skill not achievements. He's always had nerve issues, and clearly they are not enough of an issue now in a different game to deter him from winning a major tournament. FTFY User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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SmokeyNagata
United States111 Posts
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:55 Mayor wrote: He was credited for being a smart and wonderful player by many people, for instance Artosis and idrA, but had stage problems. So that is the criteria for top rated BW player? rofl.That is sad. Fact is for anyone who followed BW, he was NOT a top level BW player. | ||
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Namu
United States826 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:55 SmOkeYNaGaTa wrote: If teams wish to keep their players, then write a contract. The player gets room, board, a modest salary possibly in exchange for 6 months to a year of loyalty. THEY DO HAVE CONTRACTS. how many times do people have to write this for you people? the coach decided to release puma because puma had already decided he wanted to go. jesus, did some people not even read the op? | ||
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
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Ponyo
United States1231 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:51 SiCkO_ wrote: The biggest issue was that EG started talking up another player while he was participating for another team away from most of his teammates and coaches. And while Puma was certainly able to say no, I imagine that EG would not even bring it up if they weren't 100% sure that they could make an offer that was better than anything TSL could have offered (Korean SC2 teams are not as well off because all the big bucks go to the Brood War players who are already well known and in the spotlight a lot more). What would you think if your girlfriend went to another state/city/country to go to a conference with people who knew she was going out with you, and yet some rich guy there stole her anyway. It's not the fact that they got Puma as much as it was basically EG flipping the bird to the entire team and to a lesser extent, all of korea, by saying "hey, so most of our players aren't as good are yours, whatever, we can just buy your players up even though you have them contracted because we have tons more money than you". TSL's staff and coaches spent time, energy and capital to make sure their players could succeed and do well. Their result? A player poached before he can even pay off, by a time that failed to even get a SINGLE PLAYER into the top 16 of the competition he was competing in. The reaction? I wouldn't be surprised to see teams keep their players (at least their top ones) in korea (with the exception of FXO) to simply safeguard their talent pools. EG in my opinion, has not only cemented the old Brood War concept that Koreans are simply the best, but they have also set back many of the ties that had been building as a result of cooperation between various organizations (TL-oGs, FXO/fOu, Dreamhack, GSL/MLG). This is bigger than one player, it is the precedent that Foreign teams can poach their top talent. I wish PuMa the best of luck, but EG's move is in my opinion, inconsiderate, exploitative, and a damaging blow to Korean/Foreign relations in SC2. Poor Show ^All of this. Massive poach, and I really don't like this at all. Dirty, dirty move by EG. I do hope Puma continues to play well, but outright buying talent - under the table no less - doesn't help EG at all in my eyes. Plus, Puma was one of the factors giving me hope for a resurgent TSL after they lost so many players. Now it's just SangHo, who is good, but not good enough to carry what's left of the team on his own. | ||
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Stamper
Germany148 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:53 Serpico wrote: Did I touch a nerve or something? Good lord you're angry. He kind of has a point there. To my knowledge PuMa used to be Flash's practice partner. Entering a discussion about him without even knowing if he ever played BW is kind of idiotic. | ||
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thatsundowner
Canada312 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:52 TheButtonmen wrote: B) I don't get the outrage, EG made Puma an offer, Puma took it to TSL managment, they agreed to it and released him early. What's wrong with this series of events? Puma had to go to TSL, who in turn released him. Implying that there was some sort of contract or agreement there. If you try to recruit a player, you go to their team, not the player themselves, especially if they're already under a contract or agreement with that team. This is a scummy as hell move by EG and if there's any justice in the world a huge PR hit. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:55 DystopiaX wrote: 30k for FD, 27k for Tester, and since he's better than both I'm assuming comparable money, and certainly more than EG can afford. When those contracts were signed he wasn't considered better than a previous GSL Champion and a Code S player. | ||
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Shewklad
Sweden482 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:53 Serpico wrote: Did I touch a nerve or something? Good lord you're angry. Not angry at all! Why would you think I am? Cause I pointed out that you have no idea what you're talking about? :-) | ||
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Junichi
Germany1056 Posts
On the other hand it is good, that people are disliking this move as well, because it indicates we need rules for those kind of things. And for rules to be enforced we need a higher institution and in this case eventually an institution which will be able to enforce those rules on an international scale (since the USA and Kor are already involved). Once again something which indicates and furthers the growth of SC2 as a sport imo. On the third hand (  ) it creates drama, and drama equals entertainment. Entertainment is always good for sports.so... f*ck yeah! I like this move! for esports!  | ||
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oBlade
United States5784 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:56 FryktSkyene wrote: And he did shitty in tournys and important matches. Like OP said. Define top rated. top rated = solid player SOMETIMES? or top rated = solid player ALWAYS? Puma got very far in BW compared to the huge number of amateurs and low level pros who are all trying to squeeze through a very tight door that only lets a few people inside to be successful. | ||
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Futarchy
Singapore59 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:50 OptimusYale wrote: Sports and work are too different things. When you work for a company, people just give you money to do your job. In sports they pay an investment into you. You live under their roof, you eat their food, they train you up and then you get stolen away? Theres a reason why transfers are so strictly regulated in all sports because every player is an investment. Their names mean something, raise the profile of your teams and thus allow you to grab more sponsors and more money. TSL at the moment has very few BIG players who can dictate sponsorships from bigger companies, which puts TSL in a difficult position! Not true, several companies invest in their employees as well, giving them extra training/courses etc. Just because an employee/player is an investment, does not mean competition should be regulated. If a player is so precious an investment, there's nothing stopping the team from writing a long-term contract acceptable to the player as well. Of course, in this case it seems like TSL has chosen to "release" Puma from his contractual obligations (still speculation at this stage). If that's the case, I give TSL my respect for choosing to let their player choose his own path. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:55 hmunkey wrote: Summary of negative comments: Some people don't understand how business works or are personally against players making decisions for themselves. If PuMa was offered more money and TSL couldn't pay it, why shouldn't he be allowed to move? Because he was under contract. If it's true that he was still under contract at the time and that Lee had to terminate his current one to let him go to EG, it is quite underhanded. Especially since Lee sent Puma to the NASL to promote and make TSL look good and it turned terrible for his team in the end. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:57 Halcyondaze wrote: They are also the only team with a player in korea with the ability to compete in Code S. Aside from FXO If foreign teams want to be taken seriously they need to send their players to korea like FXO has and reach Code S level. It is no ones fault but their own that they don't " have the ability to compete in Code S " | ||
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[NSL]BansheeHero
Czech Republic143 Posts
I am quite sad after reading this thread of trolls and hate. You speak about the lack of integrity and mediocrity, but you are nothing more then Below average trolls, that hate anybody based upon the current fad. | ||
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Fianchetto
United States157 Posts
First, I think its good for Puma that he is going to get a respectable salary, and EG now has another good player to represent them instead of just Idra. I do think that EG should of talked to with TSL managers / coaches, but in the end it isn't that big of a deal. The deal benefits puma, whose interests should be the focus and not TSL's. On another note I feel that foreign teams snatching Korean pros is going to be bad for the foreigner scene with less and less foreigners getting sponsorships. I understand people keep saying "step up foreigners" but it isn't that simple. A single player or even a team practicing a lot will still be unable to compete with Koreans since there are simple more Koreans practicing 12+ hours a day and they will practice much more efficiently. There are already foreigners like Naniwa who practice their ass off, and while they become the best in their region are still not on the same level as koreans and so must travel to korea to get better. I think its unrealistic that entire groups of foreigners will change their practicing habits if salarys and sponsorships are already diminishing to koreans. oh and puma is going to get a lot worse if he practices with the majority of the EG teams / foreigners. | ||
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PHC
United States472 Posts
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Korean Netizens are quite outraged. Although one of them noted that "not surprising since it's Idra's team" 37 minutes ago Also, I'm going to fully expect the Korean SC2 Association to do something about this and make some sort of solid FA policy. 33 minutes ago @hazelynutsc2 clear difference between american thought and korean thought and that americans are pretty disrespectful for thinking its okay 29 minutes ago Korean Netizens also very disappointed in Puma. Not surprised. If you're surprised then you need to understand our culture a bit better 11 minutes ago FYI: It's a sign of RESPECT more than anything to talk to the team before contacting the player. I'm sure TSL feels very disrespected 10 minutes ago Also please stop saying stuff like "he was a practice partner for Flash" as some measure of skill. Just look at KT Rolster FFS 6 minutes ago | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
If it was any other team, I might have been shocked. Typical EG though. | ||
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