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On July 22 2011 20:09 Quesa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 19:33 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 19:30 Full.tilt wrote:On July 22 2011 19:28 SkelA wrote:
I dont follow the SC2 closely but why is 300++ pages of discussion because some player switched teams? Just some old fashioned player poaching. A western team hired a fairly good Korean player who wasn't being payed and didn't have a contract but there was a miscommunication along the way between Puma (The player) and his coach that caused the coach to think that EG had signed Puma without ever talking to him (EG didn't, Puma stil isn't signed on with EG) but the TL community with it's love for drama and hate for EG has decided that this is the worst thing ever, EG disrespected all of Korea and they are single handidly killing ESPORTS. I love all of these stunningly ignorant 'The community hates EG' whines; which team other than possibly Liquid is going to skate when there's any kind of uproar created in the high level Korean scene in this Korean crazy community? Plus I'm fairly certain that Liquid would immediately defuse the situation rather than treat a PR incident like a court case.
Well if you find me stunningly ignorant and disagree with what I said then why don't you give it a shot and answer his question?
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On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch.
Haha, this is just getting better and better for every hour! 
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On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch.
Rekrul with a shot across the bow!
This is the thread that keeps on giving.
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Since PuMa isn't signed yet it's time for other teams to make offer and stuff.
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On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch.
Karma may be a bitch but it still doesn't make what EG did right. No matter how you come at it stealing a player is still stealing no matter who you do it too. EG should have really done a better job with this.
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On July 22 2011 20:13 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. Karma may be a bitch but it still doesn't make what EG did right. No matter how you come at it stealing a player is still stealing no matter who you do it too. EG should have really done a better job with this.
You cannot "Steal" a player, they don't "belong" to anyone
ESPECIALLY one not contracted
stop using that buzz word
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On July 22 2011 20:13 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. Karma may be a bitch but it still doesn't make what EG did right. No matter how you come at it stealing a player is still stealing no matter who you do it too. EG should have really done a better job with this.
Heh, "stealing".
That special kind of stealing where they didn't give Puma the big sales pitch until he came to them inquiring about the details they were offering? The kind of stealing where EG gave Puma a better deal then the whole no salary and no contract that TSL was offering? Or the kind where EG respected Pumas requests and let him be one to talk to his coach rather then EG going directly to him?
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On July 22 2011 20:13 Sworn wrote:
No matter how you come at it stealing a player is still stealing no matter who you do it to.
Except when it's not.
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On July 22 2011 19:39 HyperLimen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 17:33 stangstang wrote:On July 22 2011 17:29 HyperLimen wrote:On July 22 2011 17:27 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 17:25 stangstang wrote:On July 22 2011 17:22 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 17:20 Angelbelow wrote:
posters are actually serious about boycotting the sponsors? lol.. how can they still be that butthurt.
I listened to half of weapon of choice then I had to go. Did I miss something between now and then? Didn't most of these issues get cleared up? EG hasn't even signed Puma yet. Puma is not a free agent after he left TSL.
Whats everyone worked up about now? The owner of EG was a dick a blatantly disrespected Milkis. how? please explain how he disrespected milkis. If you watched Weapon of Choice today, Alex continuously interrupted and talked over Milkis whenever he was trying to make a point. Then at the end he attacked Milkis for "false journalism" when all he did was translate an article on play XP. Respect starts with giving the other party the time of day to make a point. Even if Alex was 100% correct, it is still disrespectful for him to do what he did. Respect starts with contacting the management of another team before you try to offer one of their players anything as well. Even if the player isn't under contract by the management? Did TSL own puma then? so before you are allowed to talk to puma, you gotta talk to TSL? Even though puma wasn't under contract by TSL. Well, Puma was only an official team member living in the team's house receiving free food and stipends and wearing their jersey with their sponsors on it at tournaments. I'm sure that not a single person on earth thought that he was a member of TSL or anything, though. If you need a piece of paper with ink on it to prevent you from acting like a scumbag, then chances are that you are a scumbag completely lacking in character altogether to begin with. I find it both hilarious and sad that everyone who replies to this thread with any comment along the lines of 'well there was no official contract' is from the west. Comments like that perfectly illustrate the complete disconnect between western society and moral standards when money is involved. So far in the life of SC2 EG has destroyed SoTG, admittedly harvested popular players from other teams via buyouts, secured a monopolization on various shows that pertain to the scene, and the list goes on and on. Is there a single other team in SC2 that has had nearly as much drama surrounding it ? I really do not think that there is if you exclude TSL and Pumagate. Would any other team be afforded a 2 hour platform to disseminate their propaganda on after completely screwing over a Korean team? I sincerely doubt it. No disrespect to Milkis (he is an amazing person who does more for the community than I ever will) but I really wish that someone was on WoC that could have verbally eviscerated the scumbag EG representative. It's like I'm witnessing the competitive scene of SC2 and the media outlets surrounding it become infected by the same virus. But then again, who cares ? Any publicity is good publicity, after all. Make that money! I just hope that Team Liquid never does anything remotely similar to what EG has done so that I can continue to support and cheer for their members without feeling like a hypocrite.
So because TSL refuses to offer their players contracts every team should stay away from their players and never contact them or offer them a contract? That is just wrong towards the players. Just because they are given food, a place to stay and support doesn't mean they are obliged to stay with the team their entire lifetime. In return of the food and support they play for the team and directs interest towards the sponsors. Coach Lee might have had an agreement with his players based on trust but it is not EG's fault that Puma decides to leave the team. Blaming EG is just ignorant, they should blame Puma for leaving instead of EG for showing interest.
It's in the best interest of the players if they are given choices in regards to what team they play for. If a team want's security they should put their players under contract. If you don't you risk your players leaving without compensation. It's just how things work in sports and SC2 should be no different. If there is some unwritten rule that players can't leave their team that is only bad for the players and in the end will hurt the sport.
If EG wouldn't have shown interest there would be some other team that will show interest in the future and if Puma thinks he can improve his situation and he doesn't feel morally obliged to stay than he will leave again. If TSL would have offered their players contracts non of this drama would have happened and they would have received compensation. They thought they could just trust their players to stay but this is apparently not the case. You can't blame EG for Puma's decision to leave.
Do you become just as angry when a sports team offers another player a contract? Because if you do than I hope you have a strong hart.
Btw. I don't know why you bring SotG into this but there has been enough talk about that already and in my oppinion djWheat didn't show any bias for EG and asked Alex some critical questions and allowed him to give him his side of the argument (coach lee obviously couldn't as he is korean but you can't blame the show for that).
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So EG's mistake was giving Puma some control of the situation? By doing this they offended Coach Lee?
If Lee is so close to the members of his team, wouldn't he perfer hearing things directly from his guys than having some team call him saying they want his player?
I understand why Puma wanted to be the one to tell Lee about his plans to move to another team. The poor guy wanted to do things in the way i atleast feel was the nicest way to go about it, and as a result he is stuck in the middle of a shitstorm like this.
The kid deserves far better than this.
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On July 22 2011 20:13 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. Karma may be a bitch but it still doesn't make what EG did right. No matter how you come at it stealing a player is still stealing no matter who you do it too. EG should have really done a better job with this.
This thread would be far less painfull to read if people like you would NOT use terminology that doesn't fit by any definition you might use.
TSL cannot OWN a player, so EG cannot STEAL him.
We lack a lot of details to make proper judgements on what went on behind the scenes and who behaved badly, but one thing we can definitly say is that:
Coach Lee overracted and created this shitstorm because he feels insulted (his slanted posts on PlayXP translated by Milkis show this perfectly).
Frankly HE should have talked to EG if he was so pissed off at their behaviour, before going public. If what Alex said is correct (and we have no reason to doubt him) they were still in the preliminary negotiations of a transfer, that is exactly the phase where you usually talk to each others teams (if it is necessary). Puma said he wanted to talk to TSL and EG let him. How is that in any way close to what your post describes?
Ps: You are also still ignoring the major point. If TSL doesn't pay their players well enough to make them stay no amount of "moral" behaviour and guilt tripping is going to make them stay.
PPS: To the people making wild assumptions that Pumas skill is immediatly going to take a nosedive because he can't practice anymore yadda yadda etc. etc. maybe you shouldn't judge quite so prematurely either. Who knows how and where he will practice in the future.
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On July 22 2011 20:28 Sebzou wrote:
So EG's mistake was giving Puma some control of the situation? By doing this they offended Coach Lee?
If Lee is so close to the members of his team, wouldn't he perfer hearing things directly from his guys than having some team call him saying they want his player?
I understand why Puma wanted to be the one to tell Lee about his plans to move to another team. The poor guy wanted to do things in the way i atleast feel was the nicest way to go about it, and as a result he is stuck in the middle of a shitstorm like this.
The kid deserves far better than this.
Lee would have been hurt no matter how they approached him. He is about to loose a player after all.
I understand TSL is in a rough situation, and obviously PumA wasn't happy. I believe there wouldn't have been a perfect way to handle things.
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Guys the main problem here is that EG is NOT korean team ... It ts obvious ! They want korean players in Korea thats it ! Normal I think ?
But set some rules betwin federation ... Like soccer or basketball contracts ... where is the problem ?
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Nice to know Coach Lee did the same thing.. thanks Rekrul!
This is a cultural thing, he is more offended because Puma went to a foreign team!
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On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch.
Is anyone really not a liar and a hypocrite? Think about it.
And ya what goes around comes around.
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On July 22 2011 19:16 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 19:11 Twoinches wrote:
EG - We ruin E-sports by giving players a chance. A chance to do what? TSL provided Puma with a higher quality practice environment than EG ever will. They gave him the opportunity to play and compete in Korea against the best players in the world. They sent him to compete on a foreign event (which he won). The only thing EG can do for him is give him more money - but at the same time he loses everything else. Which to an ambitious progamer who believes in his skill and talent should be a lot more important than instant gratification salary.
You know this how? In the past month TSL has lost Rain, FruitDealer, Trickster, & Puma.
Is that really ALL a coincidence?? Logic suggests that since all of these people have free will, they're leaving the team because it will benefit them.
But of course we as second-guessing fans know better. So let's indict Puma for choosing to leave and indict EG for actually offering him a contract (I know... a contract to secure one's employment -- crazy idea, right?).
The insolence of some people here to judge others so harshly for simply trying to make the best lives for themselves that they can.
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Without hearing what Puma has to say about this things look like this in my eyes:
EG was flexible and gave Puma control of the situation.
Puma is nice guy and wanted to be the one to talk to his coach and from what i've heard, friend.
After that, something went wrong and Lee got emotional about it.
This community is rough. Someone always gets hated. And 80% of all people on the net are followers who will jump on any wave and stay on it no matter what.
The situation is not yet completely resolved, EG will most likely talk to Lee, hopefully Puma will get to say what is on his mind and after that people will hopefully stay quiet about this tiny thing.
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Guys. To prove TL community go wrong:
IF FACEBOOK WANTED TO GIVE AN OFFER TO A GOOGLE EMPLOYEE, DO THEY CONTACT FACEBOOK'S CEO? NO? THEY GIVE THE OFFER TO THE EMPLOYEE. IT IS UP TO THE EMPLOYEE TO ACCEPT AND HANDLE CONTRACTS THAT THE EMPLOYEE HAS SIGNED.
Replace Facebook with EG and Google with TSL, and employee with gamer. What do you have?
(In CAPS to prove TL community's lack of logic. Encapsulation.)
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The amount of retardness is this thread reach new heights.
1. Puma was never signed to any contract what so ever.
2. EG offered Puma a contract which he accepted.
Korean teams doesnt want any competition, they want the teams to decide wages for their players thus reducing salaries drasticly. This is bad for the players, good for those who want to make money and take advantege of kids.
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EPT
