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On July 22 2011 17:50 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 17:44 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 17:38 stangstang wrote:
just like the last thing they discussed. Alex was talking about responsible journalism as a whole. he kept saying he was NOT attacking milkis. then milkis suddenly gets all offended like Alex attacked him personally. Once again, there is no reason to even make that comment in front of Milkis if he wasn't meaning to attack Milkis. Also consider this. Milkis's translations are what started this PR mess. It doesn't take a genius to understand that the comment was aimed at him, even if Alex vehemently denies doing so. If i asked you why you were so invested in defending milkis would you give me a honest answer? I dont think its because Alex is being a dick. Ill admit im a fan of EGs, but I dont have anything against milkis. Infact, i know whats its like to be in his situation, where his opponent is one that is articulate and well spoken and you knew that you werent on his level. Its a hard spot to be in and he did it bravely. But his translation did blow this whole thing out of proportion. If the only thing left is Alex being a dick to milkis as your problem with EG, explain to me why milkis doesnt deserve some of the blame? He started a thread that had a 200 page flame war over nothing. And IMO, he was so emotionally charged he was fueling the flame war with his occasionally ambiguous posts.
Milkis is a translator, and a good one at that, however he does not speak publicly for a living. It seemed to me like Alex was shooting down valid points before they could materialize simply by interrupting eloquently. Yes it is damage control, but in my eyes(or ears as it would happen), it made Alex seem like an ass. His tone was carefully controlled, but the direction he sent the conversation seemed condescending to me, almost as if he didn't want to even deal with Milkis.
The attack on translation seems misguided to me. The wording on the translation may seem a bit exaggerated, but keep in mind where the translation comes from. It comes from a source in Korea, which most likely has bias in it already, especially since the reaction in Korea from what I've heard is overwhelmingly negative. Is the translator supposed to attempt to take the bias out? Then is it really translating if you aren't conveying the original meaning of the article? That seemed to almost be a personal attack, and while protecting his own organization is understandable, putting the blame on a translator for conveying the bias in an article is uncalled for.
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Don't understand why this thread is still going.. Manners? Manners? Really come on people an uncontracted player was contacted while at a foreign tournament with an offer and he decided to accept.. for everyone to get on their high horse about this is ridiculous. Absolutely nothing immoral or unethical was done by team evil geniuses and to say otherwise is a farce..
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On July 22 2011 18:14 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 17:50 Angelbelow wrote:On July 22 2011 17:44 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 17:38 stangstang wrote:
just like the last thing they discussed. Alex was talking about responsible journalism as a whole. he kept saying he was NOT attacking milkis. then milkis suddenly gets all offended like Alex attacked him personally. Once again, there is no reason to even make that comment in front of Milkis if he wasn't meaning to attack Milkis. Also consider this. Milkis's translations are what started this PR mess. It doesn't take a genius to understand that the comment was aimed at him, even if Alex vehemently denies doing so. If i asked you why you were so invested in defending milkis would you give me a honest answer? I dont think its because Alex is being a dick. Ill admit im a fan of EGs, but I dont have anything against milkis. Infact, i know whats its like to be in his situation, where his opponent is one that is articulate and well spoken and you knew that you werent on his level. Its a hard spot to be in and he did it bravely. But his translation did blow this whole thing out of proportion. If the only thing left is Alex being a dick to milkis as your problem with EG, explain to me why milkis doesnt deserve some of the blame? He started a thread that had a 200 page flame war over nothing. And IMO, he was so emotionally charged he was fueling the flame war with his occasionally ambiguous posts. Milkis is a translator, and a good one at that, however he does not speak publicly for a living. It seemed to me like Alex was shooting down valid points before they could materialize simply by interrupting eloquently. Yes it is damage control, but in my eyes(or ears as it would happen), it made Alex seem like an ass. His tone was carefully controlled, but the direction he sent the conversation seemed condescending to me, almost as if he didn't want to even deal with Milkis. The attack on translation seems misguided to me. The wording on the translation may seem a bit exaggerated, but keep in mind where the translation comes from. It comes from a source in Korea, which most likely has bias in it already, especially since the reaction in Korea from what I've heard is overwhelmingly negative. Is the translator supposed to attempt to take the bias out? Then is it really translating if you aren't conveying the original meaning of the article? That seemed to almost be a personal attack, and while protecting his own organization is understandable, putting the blame on a translator for conveying the bias in an article is uncalled for.
Thank you!~
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On July 22 2011 18:14 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 18:13 Eufouria wrote:On July 22 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 22 2011 17:56 Eufouria wrote:
Also Alex from EG needs to learn that SC2 fans don't care about how a business works, and in fact most probably object to SC2 becoming more businesslike, although its really an inevitability. When you go on a show like SoTG and come from such a strong business angle you don't really do yourself any favours in terms of popularity. Also its a bit suspect that you went to ITG to do the interview, while I think djWHEAT did a great job and asked the right questions, EG still have some involvement in ITG and it could be seen a bit like Rupert Murdoch doing any interview on Sky or FOX. One, it was on Weapon of Choice, a show that has been around since before onemoregame.tv was around. Its a djWHEAT production, not an EG one like ITG. And people need to accept the fact that esports will become business like. It won't reach its potential without it. Oh my bad. I knew that it wasn't the show that EG had partly caused to be set up but the fact that they are both produced by the same man that is one possible angle people could take, so they should be careful in the future. I don't think WHEAT displayed any bias at all, but I'm just saying that they should be cautious of constantly going to djWHEAT productions to defend themselves. Actually he was pretty biased Below is someone else's post: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am not sure what is community's opinion but props to Milkis for keeping cool head (fairly cool head ^__^) and I fully support you and your point. Also to djwheat: STOP BEING FUCKING ONE-SIDED, it ruins the show. It felt like I was watching Fox News. On July 22 2011 09:55 Midgetman101 wrote: Love the DJwheat cutoff on Milkis. On July 22 2011 09:55 Xax wrote: Wow, Milkis gets cut off, AG gets to make a point and say stuff like "lets agree on" and end on it. wow. On July 22 2011 09:55 DrunkenTemplar wrote: Fuck me, is this show for real? As soon as Milkis gets a chance to respond, djwheat cuts him off On July 22 2011 09:55 SonicBoxer wrote: DJ (I'm going to stop you there Milkis) or (I know where you are coming form Alex) Wheat. On July 22 2011 09:56 MonkSEA wrote: Wow I've lost pretty much all respect for wheat right now. I used to enjoy these topics and all that but now it's just these two people bashing on someone and not letting the bashed able to defend.
It was to be expected really, given that EG pretty much backs the show (ITG at least), and it's the second time the show is basically used as "voice of EG" when they need to clear their name on a controversial issue.
It's the whole "Get Alex Garfield on and try to convince the viewers he's right and everybody else is stupid" again.
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On July 22 2011 18:20 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 18:14 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 18:13 Eufouria wrote:On July 22 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 22 2011 17:56 Eufouria wrote:
Also Alex from EG needs to learn that SC2 fans don't care about how a business works, and in fact most probably object to SC2 becoming more businesslike, although its really an inevitability. When you go on a show like SoTG and come from such a strong business angle you don't really do yourself any favours in terms of popularity. Also its a bit suspect that you went to ITG to do the interview, while I think djWHEAT did a great job and asked the right questions, EG still have some involvement in ITG and it could be seen a bit like Rupert Murdoch doing any interview on Sky or FOX. One, it was on Weapon of Choice, a show that has been around since before onemoregame.tv was around. Its a djWHEAT production, not an EG one like ITG. And people need to accept the fact that esports will become business like. It won't reach its potential without it. Oh my bad. I knew that it wasn't the show that EG had partly caused to be set up but the fact that they are both produced by the same man that is one possible angle people could take, so they should be careful in the future. I don't think WHEAT displayed any bias at all, but I'm just saying that they should be cautious of constantly going to djWHEAT productions to defend themselves. Actually he was pretty biased Below is someone else's post: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am not sure what is community's opinion but props to Milkis for keeping cool head (fairly cool head ^__^) and I fully support you and your point. Also to djwheat: STOP BEING FUCKING ONE-SIDED, it ruins the show. It felt like I was watching Fox News. On July 22 2011 09:55 Midgetman101 wrote: Love the DJwheat cutoff on Milkis. On July 22 2011 09:55 Xax wrote: Wow, Milkis gets cut off, AG gets to make a point and say stuff like "lets agree on" and end on it. wow. On July 22 2011 09:55 DrunkenTemplar wrote: Fuck me, is this show for real? As soon as Milkis gets a chance to respond, djwheat cuts him off On July 22 2011 09:55 SonicBoxer wrote: DJ (I'm going to stop you there Milkis) or (I know where you are coming form Alex) Wheat. On July 22 2011 09:56 MonkSEA wrote: Wow I've lost pretty much all respect for wheat right now. I used to enjoy these topics and all that but now it's just these two people bashing on someone and not letting the bashed able to defend. It was to be expected really, given that EG pretty much backs the show (ITG at least), and it's the second time the show is basically used as "voice of EG" when they need to clear their name on a controversial issue.
So don't watch that crap... i know i only watch sotg (even tho that is kinda mlg influenced, but that's just a tournament and not like it's a mlg show).
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On July 22 2011 18:20 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 18:14 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 18:13 Eufouria wrote:On July 22 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 22 2011 17:56 Eufouria wrote:
Also Alex from EG needs to learn that SC2 fans don't care about how a business works, and in fact most probably object to SC2 becoming more businesslike, although its really an inevitability. When you go on a show like SoTG and come from such a strong business angle you don't really do yourself any favours in terms of popularity. Also its a bit suspect that you went to ITG to do the interview, while I think djWHEAT did a great job and asked the right questions, EG still have some involvement in ITG and it could be seen a bit like Rupert Murdoch doing any interview on Sky or FOX. One, it was on Weapon of Choice, a show that has been around since before onemoregame.tv was around. Its a djWHEAT production, not an EG one like ITG. And people need to accept the fact that esports will become business like. It won't reach its potential without it. Oh my bad. I knew that it wasn't the show that EG had partly caused to be set up but the fact that they are both produced by the same man that is one possible angle people could take, so they should be careful in the future. I don't think WHEAT displayed any bias at all, but I'm just saying that they should be cautious of constantly going to djWHEAT productions to defend themselves. Actually he was pretty biased Below is someone else's post: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am not sure what is community's opinion but props to Milkis for keeping cool head (fairly cool head ^__^) and I fully support you and your point. Also to djwheat: STOP BEING FUCKING ONE-SIDED, it ruins the show. It felt like I was watching Fox News. On July 22 2011 09:55 Midgetman101 wrote: Love the DJwheat cutoff on Milkis. On July 22 2011 09:55 Xax wrote: Wow, Milkis gets cut off, AG gets to make a point and say stuff like "lets agree on" and end on it. wow. On July 22 2011 09:55 DrunkenTemplar wrote: Fuck me, is this show for real? As soon as Milkis gets a chance to respond, djwheat cuts him off On July 22 2011 09:55 SonicBoxer wrote: DJ (I'm going to stop you there Milkis) or (I know where you are coming form Alex) Wheat. On July 22 2011 09:56 MonkSEA wrote: Wow I've lost pretty much all respect for wheat right now. I used to enjoy these topics and all that but now it's just these two people bashing on someone and not letting the bashed able to defend. It was to be expected really, given that EG pretty much backs the show (ITG at least), and it's the second time the show is basically used as "voice of EG" when they need to clear their name on a controversial issue.
Sigh, after all he does for the team liquid community he definitely did not deserve to go on a show and be treated with such disrespect.
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On July 22 2011 18:14 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 17:50 Angelbelow wrote:On July 22 2011 17:44 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 17:38 stangstang wrote:
just like the last thing they discussed. Alex was talking about responsible journalism as a whole. he kept saying he was NOT attacking milkis. then milkis suddenly gets all offended like Alex attacked him personally. Once again, there is no reason to even make that comment in front of Milkis if he wasn't meaning to attack Milkis. Also consider this. Milkis's translations are what started this PR mess. It doesn't take a genius to understand that the comment was aimed at him, even if Alex vehemently denies doing so. If i asked you why you were so invested in defending milkis would you give me a honest answer? I dont think its because Alex is being a dick. Ill admit im a fan of EGs, but I dont have anything against milkis. Infact, i know whats its like to be in his situation, where his opponent is one that is articulate and well spoken and you knew that you werent on his level. Its a hard spot to be in and he did it bravely. But his translation did blow this whole thing out of proportion. If the only thing left is Alex being a dick to milkis as your problem with EG, explain to me why milkis doesnt deserve some of the blame? He started a thread that had a 200 page flame war over nothing. And IMO, he was so emotionally charged he was fueling the flame war with his occasionally ambiguous posts. Milkis is a translator, and a good one at that, however he does not speak publicly for a living. It seemed to me like Alex was shooting down valid points before they could materialize simply by interrupting eloquently. Yes it is damage control, but in my eyes(or ears as it would happen), it made Alex seem like an ass. His tone was carefully controlled, but the direction he sent the conversation seemed condescending to me, almost as if he didn't want to even deal with Milkis. The attack on translation seems misguided to me. The wording on the translation may seem a bit exaggerated, but keep in mind where the translation comes from. It comes from a source in Korea, which most likely has bias in it already, especially since the reaction in Korea from what I've heard is overwhelmingly negative. Is the translator supposed to attempt to take the bias out? Then is it really translating if you aren't conveying the original meaning of the article? That seemed to almost be a personal attack, and while protecting his own organization is understandable, putting the blame on a translator for conveying the bias in an article is uncalled for.
If I asked you nicely to read the discussion I had with backside would be you be so kind to do so? I covered why I felt Alex was interrupting him. Why it wasnt his translation, but his own personal reaction after he posted the translation that I had an issue with. I g2g but I dont disagree with anything you said. hes not a public speaker.
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Despite AG's well articulated response, I still think most of it is complete bullshit. It's quite simple, djWheat asked him in retrospect, would he have contacted the coach directly. He said no despite knowing that the coach would be upset, despite knowing the coach wants to be kept in the loop. It actually costs him nothing except maybe half an hour of his time to contact the coach himself. Clearly he doesn't give a shit. His reason was that he had a plan, the plan was for Puma to talk to the coach and that's what they agreed on.
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On July 22 2011 18:25 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 18:14 Amui wrote:On July 22 2011 17:50 Angelbelow wrote:On July 22 2011 17:44 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 17:38 stangstang wrote:
just like the last thing they discussed. Alex was talking about responsible journalism as a whole. he kept saying he was NOT attacking milkis. then milkis suddenly gets all offended like Alex attacked him personally. Once again, there is no reason to even make that comment in front of Milkis if he wasn't meaning to attack Milkis. Also consider this. Milkis's translations are what started this PR mess. It doesn't take a genius to understand that the comment was aimed at him, even if Alex vehemently denies doing so. If i asked you why you were so invested in defending milkis would you give me a honest answer? I dont think its because Alex is being a dick. Ill admit im a fan of EGs, but I dont have anything against milkis. Infact, i know whats its like to be in his situation, where his opponent is one that is articulate and well spoken and you knew that you werent on his level. Its a hard spot to be in and he did it bravely. But his translation did blow this whole thing out of proportion. If the only thing left is Alex being a dick to milkis as your problem with EG, explain to me why milkis doesnt deserve some of the blame? He started a thread that had a 200 page flame war over nothing. And IMO, he was so emotionally charged he was fueling the flame war with his occasionally ambiguous posts. Milkis is a translator, and a good one at that, however he does not speak publicly for a living. It seemed to me like Alex was shooting down valid points before they could materialize simply by interrupting eloquently. Yes it is damage control, but in my eyes(or ears as it would happen), it made Alex seem like an ass. His tone was carefully controlled, but the direction he sent the conversation seemed condescending to me, almost as if he didn't want to even deal with Milkis. The attack on translation seems misguided to me. The wording on the translation may seem a bit exaggerated, but keep in mind where the translation comes from. It comes from a source in Korea, which most likely has bias in it already, especially since the reaction in Korea from what I've heard is overwhelmingly negative. Is the translator supposed to attempt to take the bias out? Then is it really translating if you aren't conveying the original meaning of the article? That seemed to almost be a personal attack, and while protecting his own organization is understandable, putting the blame on a translator for conveying the bias in an article is uncalled for. If I asked you nicely to read the discussion I had with backside would be you be so kind to do so? I covered why I felt Alex was interrupting him. Why it wasnt his translation, but his own personal reaction after he posted the translation that I had an issue with. I g2g but I dont disagree with anything you said. hes not a public speaker.
Well gn to you. But in closing Dj Wheat chose to be incredibly biased on a EG backed show, so even if Alex felt Milkis was wrong, there's no reason for Wheat (the moderator) to interrupt Milkis like that.
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Man it's normal bussiness in the sports scene!
Fifa and uefa have rules against this, organizations have to contact other teams first but they never do it.. they talk to the player or player agent first!
It's like why even bother talking to a team, discussing a fee with a team if later the player is not interested?
So much whine and bashing it's discusting
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On July 22 2011 18:25 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Despite AG's well articulated response, I still think most of it is complete bullshit. It's quite simple, djWheat asked him in retrospect, would he have contacted the coach directly. He said no despite knowing that the coach would be upset, despite knowing the coach wants to be kept in the loop. It actually costs him nothing except maybe half an hour of his time to contact the coach himself. Clearly he doesn't give a shit. His reason was that he had a plan, the plan was for Puma to talk to the coach and that's what they agreed on.
Why not have Puma talk to him? It's his coach, and since EG isnt Buying him from the coach why do they need to discuss the deal? Who is to say after puma had talked it over with Mr Lee EG would not have gone to to the coach to talk. If I was the coach I would rather hear it from the player first and find out if he was alright with the deal before some suit talked to me. Mr Lee got emotional, made a post before any deal went down (claiming it did already) and people are saying EG is to blame. what? Did i miss the logic train somewhere?
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On July 22 2011 17:29 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 17:12 Toons wrote:On July 22 2011 17:06 HyperLimen wrote:On July 22 2011 17:01 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 16:58 HyperLimen wrote:On July 22 2011 16:52 MrDudeMan wrote:On July 22 2011 16:46 HyperLimen wrote:
Did YOU actually listen to the interview ? They approached players with offers of how they would support them etc. That is completely different from harmlessly handing someone a business card.
Since when is the grand finals of a months long tournament a business conference? What a thoroughly terrible analogy.
KESPA is yet another terrible example to bring up because SC2 is not under a regulated organization.
Why did I even bother replying to your idiocy ? rofl. No, EG (Alex) was there looking for players, something that is completely ok. The reason he made contact with Sen is because Sen's contract ends soon, and if he simply asked do you have any interest in joining EG, that is also ok. Alex said he was handing out business cards then handed one out to Puma. Puma showed interest and asked about details. Alex told him the details and Puma and Alex decided it would be better to let Puma explain it to coach Lee. The miscommunication occurs somewhere between coach Lee and Puma. And the reason he pointed out KESPA is because you seem to think that in korea deals are made with trust not contracts. That is not how Alex described his initial contact with Puma on WoC. I completely understand the necessity of contracts. I live in the west where a person's honor and word are completely worthless. My point is that TSL operated on an honor based system without any problems whatsoever until a foreign organization interfered and completely blew everything out of the water. Blaming TSL for not contracting their players is the same exact thing as saying it is the victims fault if they forget to lock their car and it gets broken into or a woman gets raped for dressing too provocatively. I guess TSL 'had it coming' when they let a player come to the US to play in a tournament unaccompanied by management like that. ....You keep getting worse, what the hell. First you compare EGs hiring a player to them dumping toxic waste and killing people and now you're fucking comparing it to raping someone for dressing provocatively? I wish I had a goddamn report button. + Show Spoiler +Dumping toxic waste and killing people ? What in the world are you even talking about ?
I guess they don't stress reading comprehension in Canadian curriculum. They obviously don't place any emphasis on critical thought, either.
I was using a literary device known as hyperbole to expose the faulty logic that constitutes the foundation of your whole argument.
'herp derp no contrakt they got what dey deserve'
I never even heard anything about Sen being approached, but it honestly does not surprise me. The 'miscommunication', as you term it, should have never even had the opportunity to have taken place because if EG had any respect whatsoever they would have contacted TSL's management in regards to Puma before talking about any specifics or promises directly with the player. + Show Spoiler +Hrrm, lets hope i can make my point without getting into this stupid fight.
I think that the view 'if EG had any respect whatsoever they woudl have contacted TSL's management' first is bit simplistic .. do you really think this happens in professional sports (Football, Baseball, Australian Rules, Rugby, Tennis, whatever!)?? ( I don't see how that has anything to do with Starcraft though. If teams and managers are going to behave like football or basketball agents behave, then they need to be made to realize that there is no acceptance or sympathy for that in Starcraft community. At least that's the way I would personally want it to be, and I try to make it so. The worst thing we can do is just say "well that's just business" and let it slide. It's basically inviting EG as well as other teams to do similar shit again, or go for even shadier deals in the future because they've convinced everyone to accept it because "that's how business in sports work". Whereas if every such deal is followed by an outrage thread like this, the teams might think twice about the backlash and negative reputation they will get before going for it.
Its tough to find a stance on this i think and using other sports as an example is useful, because they been through this before?
If we all agree that we want eSports to move forward, in SC2 and other games, then why shouldnt teams be vying for players (especially those with no signed contract!) I dont see any other way to expand and grow?
Locking down how teams can approach players, having established frameworks, etc, are all beneficial. But these 'norms' were developed for 'sports' over many, many, years!
I agree with you (and others), i'd love for Starcraft to be different, for this not to be 'just business' ... But i also want eSports to grow, I want to watch it on a sunday afternoon on TV ... i want to take my kid to the GSL Australia Finals (im originally from Aus) when im 50 and tell him how in my day, this was all just a pipe dream ! And have him tell me to STFU because he is played Sc5 on Heads Up Display while we wait for the game to start!
Can we really believe that will be achieved, without full involvement from many different organisations around the world? Without healthy competition , not just on the 'field', but off it?
As i said before, i dont know if i agree with how this all went down (especially as it seems eSports is still so young in development, perhaps we need to tread more lightly) ...
I definitely lean, only slightly, toward the fact that this is a good thing! Albeit, one that leaves a kind of odd taste in the mouth (like that first shot of Whiskey, after awhile it just grows on you? - poor example i know, but a fun one)
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Alex is no MLG Lee, MLG Sundance or FXOBoss, that's for sure.
Dude needs more PR grooming if he's going to be running damage control for major team. Sometimes it's better to be short and apologetic than try to defend and over-explain every decision you make.
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After watching Weapon of Choice, it seems TSL is not used to dealing with the real world of business and that this was a wake-up call for them (and for the rest of the Korean teams). Starcraft 2 has gone global and thus they need to deal with it that way. I feel EG did nothing wrong here, but there was a small cultural miscommunication that's been blown completely out of proportion. Hopefully EG and TSL will talk this over and issue a joint statement. GL to EGPuma! (Hopefully)
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On July 22 2011 18:39 Defacer wrote:
Alex is no MLG Lee, MLG Sundance or FXOBoss, that's for sure.
Dude needs more PR grooming if he's going to be running damage control for major team. Sometimes it's better to be short and apologetic than try to defend and over-explain every decision you make.
ultimately its going to boil down to cash.
mentioned in the interview was the weak nature of the SC2 scene in Korea.
as long as Korean teams have no money to pay their players while EU and NA teams do they'll continue to walk all over the "culture" standard in Korea with impunity.
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Wow so apparently EG has contacted more Korean players? EG is not making any friends in Korea that's for sure. I doubt we will see any EG players in Korea after this.
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On July 22 2011 18:32 Twoinches wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 18:25 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Despite AG's well articulated response, I still think most of it is complete bullshit. It's quite simple, djWheat asked him in retrospect, would he have contacted the coach directly. He said no despite knowing that the coach would be upset, despite knowing the coach wants to be kept in the loop. It actually costs him nothing except maybe half an hour of his time to contact the coach himself. Clearly he doesn't give a shit. His reason was that he had a plan, the plan was for Puma to talk to the coach and that's what they agreed on. Why not have Puma talk to him? It's his coach, and since EG isnt Buying him from the coach why do they need to discuss the deal? Who is to say after puma had talked it over with Mr Lee EG would not have gone to to the coach to talk. If I was the coach I would rather hear it from the player first and find out if he was alright with the deal before some suit talked to me. Mr Lee got emotional, made a post before any deal went down (claiming it did already) and people are saying EG is to blame. what? Did i miss the logic train somewhere?
My argument was not about whether it was proper for Puma to talk to the coach instead of AG (although I disagree with this move as well). It's the fact that AG when given the option of doing it again was asked if he would contact the coach directly said no knowing that's what the coach would've wanted. The fact that he wouldn't spend a couple minutes of his time to contact the coach who had trained and cared for Puma for 10 months is a complete ignorant move on his part. There is no loss for him and we could've avoided all this drama. But he said no. Also Coach Lee never claimed the deal went down already. In fact whether the contract was signed or not meant nothing, it wasn't even worth bringing up. Puma had already left the TSL house and alerted the coach of his intentions.
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On July 22 2011 18:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
as long as Korean teams have no money to pay their players while EU and NA teams do they'll continue to walk all over the "culture" standard in Korea with impunity.
Except they didn't.
According to the TSL coach, Clide and SangHo were approached in pretty much the same way before, and decided to stay with TSL.
Don't underestimate other players just because one decided to run off to a western team. Culture and respect aside, Korean players have ambitions to compete with the best (ie. in Korea), as well as to keep practicing in the best environment for them to develop and improve as players.
Puma had a taste of the money at NASL and obviously that had some part in his decision, but we'll see how it turns out for him in the long run. Without Korea and a real team to practice with, in several months he won't be able to take many series from Korean progamers that come to take foreign tournaments.
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So what i learned from WoC - Alex Garfield(the guy who built EG from the ground up) hands out business cards to EVERYONE at NASL, Puma, who he'd been interested in, seems interested, alex gives him the regular marketing speel normal song and dance ETC. and tells puma to think about it(like everyone in REAL sports and entertainment do). Puma tells his coach, coach and his team mates hold him a going away party and then goes batshit crazy talking crap on EG. EG responds - and somehow EG's the bad guy?
I'll never get it.
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Seriously i have lost all respect to EG and even djWheat after this show. Can't believe how shitty that show was. I bet he'll write a blog to defend himself but i don't care anymore. This guy doesnt deserve to be in Esports imo. And EG doesn't deserve to be a team we support. Those guys are the worst trolls.
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EPT
