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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:29 HyperLimen wrote: Respect starts with contacting the management of another team before you try to offer one of their players anything as well. Even if the player isn't under contract by the management? Did TSL own puma then? so before you are allowed to talk to puma, you gotta talk to TSL? Even though puma wasn't under contract by TSL. | ||
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Mars.DreaM
United States24 Posts
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BackSideAttack
1103 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:31 Angelbelow wrote: The parts that I listened to, I agree that Alex did cut him off but I felt that it was cause milkis either didnt understand the point or he couldnt pull together the right words to use and was interpreted another way. At one point he said "So EG is looking for an easy way into korea?" I didnt feel like thats what milkis was trying to say but the way he worded is problem. Whats the point of a debate if one side is just going to dominate the conversation entirely. If Alex had let Milkis elaborate on his points more, many of the misinterpretations could have been avoided. | ||
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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:31 BackSideAttack wrote: Well it doesn't matter what Milkis said. As the executive director and owner of EG, Alex could have at least let Milkis speak uninterrupted, even if he disagreed with the points. It wasn't that at all. the discussions basically went down like this. Alex : "this is my point" Milkis: "so this is what you are basically saying" Alex: "no.....I didn't say that" | ||
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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:34 BackSideAttack wrote: Whats the point of a debate if one side is just going to dominate the conversation entirely. If Alex had let Milkis elaborate on his points more, many of the misinterpretations could have been avoided. Haha.. cant really be a debate if the other person is incorrectly interpreting arguments and countering the wrong things. I dont see anything wrong with this. BUT i will say this, Im exposed to cut throat business deals and heated debates where the better speaker wins. This stuff is child's play to me so maybe im a little biased. And im not trying bash milkis, its not his fault. Alex is clearly a seasoned business man/ public speaker while milkis is far from it. Cant blame Milkis for not being as articulate but that doesnt mean you dont call a spade a spade. Milkis was outclassed for the latter portions, cant put too much weight on those exchanges. What we can do is focus on the facts regarding the EG and puma deal. And last night i was find with the move, today I dont see how anyone can be against the deal given what we know now. | ||
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BackSideAttack
1103 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:29 stangstang wrote: He corrected milkis for falsely quoting him. he never attacked milkis for false journalism. he stated that before he even started making his point. Lol go to the Weapon of Choice thread and read all the comments on this. Then go rewatch the video. The entire debate was riddled with Alex "apologizing" before he interrupted him or made an accusation. I'm sorry but saying that "im not trying to accuse you....but" is an accusation in itself.. An apology does not mask his true intentions. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:34 stangstang wrote: It wasn't that at all. the discussions basically went down like this. Alex : "this is my point" Milkis: "so this is what you are basically saying" Alex: "no.....I didn't say that" Haha wow.. that is actually pretty spot on. (Only for the first half, did not hear the 2nd half yet.) | ||
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StyLeD
United States2965 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:33 stangstang wrote: Even if the player isn't under contract by the management? Did TSL own puma then? so before you are allowed to talk to puma, you gotta talk to TSL? Even though puma wasn't under contract by TSL. You sound just like one of those idiots back 300 years ago when they pissed all over Indian lands, lol. "trolololo no contract no land" In SC2 Korea, players don't have contracts because they are like family.This whole ownership crap about TSL owning Puma is retarded, we're not talking about slavery here. Puma plays under TSL's name, and TSL's manager should be contacted before any player buyouts or trades occur. | ||
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StreetHeat
United States225 Posts
The Sotg incident. The TL in EGMC incident. Inc dissing FXO saying they shouldn't be in Korea. Idra telling his viewers to spam Chill. and finally PumaGate. Most of these issues could have been handled with a bit more finesse and some are just the result of general douchebaggery. On their own they don't seem much of an issue, add them up and I get a very slimy vibe from the team and question if they are in support of ESPORTS or just sponsor $$$ On another note I question why foreign teams don't invest in developing new talent and decent B-teams instead of sniping established players, I feel like money would be better spent on a stellar coach that can elevate the skill of the team rather than the short term fix of getting whatever player you can that show results. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:41 StyLeD wrote: You sound just like one of those idiots back 300 years ago when they pissed all over Indian lands, lol. "trolololo no contract no land" In SC2 Korea, players don't have contracts because they are like family.This whole ownership crap about TSL owning Puma is retarded, we're not talking about slavery here. Puma plays under TSL's name, and TSL's manager should be contacted before any player buyouts or trades occur. Puma has not signed with EG yet. No buyout or trade has occured. | ||
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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:39 BackSideAttack wrote: Lol go to the Weapon of Choice thread and read all the comments on this. Then go rewatch the video. The entire debate was riddled with Alex "apologizing" before he interrupted him or made an accusation. I'm sorry but saying that "im not trying to accuse you....but" is an accusation in itself.. An apology does not mask his true intentions. I don't get where you are getting this from. Alex stated multiple times he was not attacking milkis and was talking about journalism as a WHOLE. apologized BEFORE and AFTER if what he said will seem like he is attacking milkis. And yet after all of that you go "oh yeah he attacked milkis" | ||
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BackSideAttack
1103 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:38 stangstang wrote: just like the last thing they discussed. Alex was talking about responsible journalism as a whole. he kept saying he was NOT attacking milkis. then milkis suddenly gets all offended like Alex attacked him personally. Once again, there is no reason to even make that comment in front of Milkis if he wasn't meaning to attack Milkis. Also consider this. Milkis's translations are what started this PR mess. It doesn't take a genius to understand that the comment was aimed at him, even if Alex vehemently denies doing so. | ||
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Mycl
Australia1370 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:41 StyLeD wrote: You sound just like one of those idiots back 300 years ago when they pissed all over Indian lands, lol. "trolololo no contract no land" In SC2 Korea, players don't have contracts because they are like family.This whole ownership crap about TSL owning Puma is retarded, we're not talking about slavery here. Puma plays under TSL's name, and TSL's manager should be contacted before any player buyouts or trades occur. Cant have a buyout or a transfer when there's no contract between the player and the team. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:42 StreetHeat wrote: This one issue alone is not enough for me to not like EG, however, when I look at their track record over the past few months and the way players and mgmt handle themselves, I just can't see myself rooting for anyone flying EG colors. The Sotg incident. The TL in EGMC incident. Inc dissing FXO saying they shouldn't be in Korea. Idra telling his viewers to spam Chill. and finally PumaGate. Most of these issues could have been handled with a bit more finesse and some are just the result of general douchebaggery. On their own they don't seem much of an issue, add them up and I get a very slimy vibe from the team and question if they are in support of ESPORTS or just sponsor $$$ On another note I question why foreign teams don't invest in developing new talent and decent B-teams instead of sniping established players, I feel like money would be better spent on a stellar coach that can elevate the skill of the team rather than the short term fix of getting whatever player you can that show results. The same can be said for any sport. Why recruit a Pau Gasol when you can just train a Kwame Brown. Why sign Lebron James when you can spend money on a coach instead. The point is that this game isnt for everyone. When SC2 came out everyone was on an even footing. But the same players remain dominant. Sometimes its not just about a players skill, but their work ethic. You cant teach work ethic, but you can pay it. | ||
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SecondChance
Australia603 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:41 StyLeD wrote:You sound just like one of those idiots back 300 years ago when they pissed all over Indian lands, lol. "trolololo no contract no land" Do you have a flag? | ||
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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:41 StyLeD wrote: You sound just like one of those idiots back 300 years ago when they pissed all over Indian lands, lol. "trolololo no contract no land" In SC2 Korea, players don't have contracts because they are like family.This whole ownership crap about TSL owning Puma is retarded, we're not talking about slavery here. Puma plays under TSL's name, and TSL's manager should be contacted before any player buyouts or trades occur. buyout or trade implies TSL have rights to puma. they never did. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:44 BackSideAttack wrote: Once again, there is no reason to even make that comment in front of Milkis if he wasn't meaning to attack Milkis. Also consider this. Milkis's translations are what started this PR mess. It doesn't take a genius to understand that the comment was aimed at him, even if Alex vehemently denies doing so. If i asked you why you were so invested in defending milkis would you give me a honest answer? I dont think its because Alex is being a dick. Ill admit im a fan of EGs, but I dont have anything against milkis. Infact, i know whats its like to be in his situation, where his opponent is one that is articulate and well spoken and you knew that you werent on his level. Its a hard spot to be in and he did it bravely. But his translation did blow this whole thing out of proportion. If the only thing left is Alex being a dick to milkis as your problem with EG, explain to me why milkis doesnt deserve some of the blame? He started a thread that had a 200 page flame war over nothing. And IMO, he was so emotionally charged he was fueling the flame war with his occasionally ambiguous posts. | ||
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Tranqje
Belgium89 Posts
I tought all this 'omg, no gg' drama was insanely stupid but this just beats about everything... I wonder what it'll be next week, this shit should be on tv, days of our lives has nothing on sc2 drama and that's been running for literally forever i think. | ||
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
The other issues are that TSL don't seem to be receiving anything for what they have invested into puMa, which is pretty shitty but that's the problem with having players that haven't signed contracts, and from what I understand TSL has already rectified this. Hopefully the other teams do this too, if they haven't, because a trust system just isn't going to work in the long term. Another reason people seem so outraged is that TSL was already a team on the back foot after losing 2 of their most well known members and people look at EG taking their star player like they would look at somebody stealing the wheelchair off of a disabled person. While unfortunate I don't think its fair to EG to blame them for this, otherwise where do we draw the line? Should people sign players from a team that lost their lost team league match, or is it not signing a player who has won a game. Also Alex from EG needs to learn that SC2 fans don't care about how a business works, and in fact most probably object to SC2 becoming more businesslike, although its really an inevitability. When you go on a show like SoTG and come from such a strong business angle you don't really do yourself any favours in terms of popularity. Also its a bit suspect that you went to ITG to do the interview, while I think djWHEAT did a great job and asked the right questions, EG still have some involvement in ITG and it could be seen a bit like Rupert Murdoch doing any interview on Sky or FOX. edit: On July 22 2011 17:50 Angelbelow wrote: If i asked you why you were so invested in defending milkis would you give me a honest answer? I dont think its because Alex is being a dick. Ill admit im a fan of EGs, but I dont have anything against milkis. Infact, i know whats its like to be in his situation, where his opponent is one that is articulate and well spoken and you knew that you werent on his level. Its a hard spot to be in and he did it bravely. But his translation did blow this whole thing out of proportion. If the only thing left is Alex being a dick to milkis as your problem with EG, explain to me why milkis doesnt deserve some of the blame? He started a thread that had a 200 page flame war over nothing. And IMO, he was so emotionally charged he was fueling the flame war with his occasionally ambiguous posts. I felt he was too rude to Milkis. You can't get mixed up between his role as a translator and him giving his own personal opinion. Its fine to disagree with his opinion, but you can't attack his journalism and I felt that was uncalled for. Translating other articles is different to other forms of journalism, all he is doing is making the work of another journalist available to more people. | ||
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