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On July 21 2011 15:47 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:46 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:43 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:35 babylon wrote:
What the fuck is going on?
Fucking hell. Firstly, this is horrible press for foreign teams. Absolutely shitty. Secondly, going behind management? Dodgy at best. Thirdly, Puma, I know money is great, but you just got 50k USD, and at the very least you could, y'know, wait until your contract expired?
Goddammit, what the hell is wrong with having a little professionalism in SC2? Everything this man just wrote. EG must be one of the most unprofessional teams there is. And I'm pretty sure that Puma will get bored when Incontrol, Idra and machine are "hitting the gym" - While Puma acctualy wants to improve in sc2. Yes, because SC 2 players literally practice so much they can't do anything ever not involved with SC 2. If you used your brain you would understand that what I ment is that Puma is used to practice SO much more then the rest of those guys, and I don't think it will be fitting at all for Puma. Unless Puma played broodwar (I've no idea) as a pro in Korea I'd assume he's never practiced as much as Idra consistently in the same atmosphere. No need to use insults so aggressively kiddo.
Puma was a practice partner of Flash (i believe) in BW as well as many other great players
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On July 21 2011 15:49 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:48 Keype wrote:On July 21 2011 15:45 wats0n wrote:
Why weren't Korean netizens outraged when Startale picked up Trickster? Gimme a break. it was a complete different reasons, they didnt have the same plans for the future and tsl were going through changes etc. to topic : ye it will be hard to cheer on eg and more to cheer on puma in the future:/ Poor tsl. Lol the amount of emotion you're putting into this move is comical. It's not really a big deal and not having players under contract is naive, if you dont have the money to pay them then someone else will.
They were salaried. And quite well.
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On July 21 2011 15:46 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:46 sigoly wrote:
idra
demuslim
puma
that looks respectable.
time to kick out the dead wood in incontrol, machine, axslav, strifcro and lz and employ more poaching shenanigans. demuslim isn't even close to those 2 lol...
you're right, but the poor bastard broke his arm. he's just settling, or about to settle back into a good practice environment.
before the arm break he was one of the top terrans in europe and there's no reason he can't regain his top form again.
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On July 21 2011 15:48 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:45 EchoZ wrote:On July 21 2011 15:43 Aranaukin wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 EchoZ wrote:On July 21 2011 15:40 Aranaukin wrote:
Why is this scummy? This happens in pro sports all the time. You never go talk to the management in pro sports you talk to the agent. I was beginning to wonder if agents would ever be involved in e-sports. You people need to stop being butt hurt over something that's not a big deal. If Puma left to join EG it's probably because they're going to accommodate him better than TSL is. Which is what he deserves for being a great player.
So now you guys don't care that it's better for the individuals training if it's worse for a team? lulz. You see, the coach IS the agent. Does a coach get money for signing the player to another team ? no. The coach is the manager, far different from an agent. One slight problem is that Sc2 leagues haven't developed to the point where their is actually a market. So you actually can't talk about agents yet, because it is simply preposterous. EDIT: Managers are the players only "formal" outside link with all the negotiations and stuff too for now in sc2. Managers are not the agents in any manner at all. The players are their own agents. Managers are simply that, managers. They run the team and try to sign players.
Like I have said, the players don't have agents yet. The next closest thing to an Agent would be a Manager.
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On July 21 2011 15:46 Futarchy wrote:
I'm not sure I understand why some people are calling for more "regulation" to prevent "player sniping". Facebook has been poaching Google employees for ages, and nobody is up in arms calling for regulation to prevent "engineer sniping". The best way to prevent your employees from leaving you to join your competitors is to offer a better deal. Attempting to prevent your employees from leaving you by colluding with all/most other competitors to come up with an "association" is as wrong as forming a cartel to charge consumers anti-competitive prices.
Sports and work are too different things. When you work for a company, people just give you money to do your job. In sports they pay an investment into you. You live under their roof, you eat their food, they train you up and then you get stolen away? Theres a reason why transfers are so strictly regulated in all sports because every player is an investment. Their names mean something, raise the profile of your teams and thus allow you to grab more sponsors and more money. TSL at the moment has very few BIG players who can dictate sponsorships from bigger companies, which puts TSL in a difficult position!
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On July 21 2011 15:49 Nicodemusher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:47 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:46 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:43 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:35 babylon wrote:
What the fuck is going on?
Fucking hell. Firstly, this is horrible press for foreign teams. Absolutely shitty. Secondly, going behind management? Dodgy at best. Thirdly, Puma, I know money is great, but you just got 50k USD, and at the very least you could, y'know, wait until your contract expired?
Goddammit, what the hell is wrong with having a little professionalism in SC2? Everything this man just wrote. EG must be one of the most unprofessional teams there is. And I'm pretty sure that Puma will get bored when Incontrol, Idra and machine are "hitting the gym" - While Puma acctualy wants to improve in sc2. Yes, because SC 2 players literally practice so much they can't do anything ever not involved with SC 2. If you used your brain you would understand that what I ment is that Puma is used to practice SO much more then the rest of those guys, and I don't think it will be fitting at all for Puma. Unless Puma played broodwar (I've no idea) as a pro in Korea I'd assume he's never practiced as much as Idra consistently in the same atmosphere. No need to use insults so aggressively kiddo. Puma's a top-rated BW player, man. This is huge...damn.
uh, no he wasn't. He was just an average player, but he had potential.
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Players' rights above all. It doesn't matter whether it was a foreign team or Korean team. Puma is where he prefers to be. Being a better coach or being closer to your players and doing better to give them what they need is a good way to stop your players from getting stolen. I suggest TSL coach do that if he likes, but not try to put blame elsewhere.
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Well he could have just left the team like the 3 other guys before him if that makes people happy? He did what was best for his career, it's what everyone hopes they can do, give him a break. EG did what was best for them, give them a break.
Good pickup EG 
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On July 21 2011 15:47 ckolev wrote:Dislike - Bypassing the coach is something really bad. Like for professional sports players, I think that this is unacceptable. There should be some kind of rule, that this should be forbidden. I mean if the player wants to leave, its OK, but first and most importantly it should be contacting the current team coach/manager and discussing it with them. EG just lost my respect for that team, sorry 
This is not professional sports you moron. There are not contracts, these players are free game and have free roam to do whatever they want. If TSL is paying him next to nothing, I'm surprised he hasn't left yet, it's clear he was looking for a foreign team. And he will be paid better and treated better. You are a joke, ignorant opinion #1281. Get a fucking clue
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 21 2011 15:48 EchoZ wrote:Poll: Like or DislikeDislike (187) 51% Like (182) 49% 369 total votes Your vote: Like or Dislike (Vote): Like
(Vote): Dislike
Easy Poll
You're missing the "Not enough information to make an informed decision" option.
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On July 21 2011 15:50 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:47 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:46 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:43 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:35 babylon wrote:
What the fuck is going on?
Fucking hell. Firstly, this is horrible press for foreign teams. Absolutely shitty. Secondly, going behind management? Dodgy at best. Thirdly, Puma, I know money is great, but you just got 50k USD, and at the very least you could, y'know, wait until your contract expired?
Goddammit, what the hell is wrong with having a little professionalism in SC2? Everything this man just wrote. EG must be one of the most unprofessional teams there is. And I'm pretty sure that Puma will get bored when Incontrol, Idra and machine are "hitting the gym" - While Puma acctualy wants to improve in sc2. Yes, because SC 2 players literally practice so much they can't do anything ever not involved with SC 2. If you used your brain you would understand that what I ment is that Puma is used to practice SO much more then the rest of those guys, and I don't think it will be fitting at all for Puma. Unless Puma played broodwar (I've no idea) as a pro in Korea I'd assume he's never practiced as much as Idra consistently in the same atmosphere. No need to use insults so aggressively kiddo. Puma was a practice partner of Flash (i believe) in BW as well as many other great players
Yeah if you listen to Artosis about whenever he shows up he was an estro player and played with a whole bunch of other Sc1 pros and alot of them who are now Sc2 pros.
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On July 21 2011 15:48 Keype wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:45 wats0n wrote:
Why weren't Korean netizens outraged when Startale picked up Trickster? Gimme a break. it was a complete different reasons, they didnt have the same plans for the future and tsl were going through changes etc. to topic : ye it will be hard to cheer on eg and more to cheer on puma in the future:/ Poor tsl.
How do you know Puma didn't have the same plans for the future as TSL?
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Isn't this how western players switch teams all the time? I mean how many moves have western players made between teams since SC2 was released? Is the other team's management always contacted? Something tells me no. This seems to just be western methods clashing with korean methods. Am I wrong here? Why hasn't anyone else pointed this out?
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On July 21 2011 15:44 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:43 Fionn wrote:On July 21 2011 15:39 Wargizmo wrote:On July 21 2011 15:22 doihy wrote:
Lost respect for puma , its one thing for lower tier players like rain or hwangsin to join foreign teams... but its totally different if a higher tier player joins foreign teams just for $$$.. Whatever happened to building teamwork.or wanting to have the highest tier of practice partners? I'll be rooting against him in every tourney he plays in.. Work 12+ hours plus per day, Be among the best in the world at what you do, Get paid next to nothing for it. In what twisted reality does this make sense? I would have done exactly the same as what Puma did. I'm on the fence about whether it was a dick move from EG or not but you can't blame Puma in the slightest. Who says TSL was paying Puma next to nothing? Just because Artosis said some Korean players don't get paid at all, DOES NOT MEAN TSL DOESN'T PAY THEIR PLAYERS WELL. It's been known forever that TSL was the first team in Korea to give salaries to their players. This simply seems like EG has more money, gave Puma a bigger contract, Puma forced Lee's hand, and Lee terminated Puma's contract so that he could leave. If this was truly TSL "owning" a player, Lee could have just ignored Puma's wishes and kept him under his current contract. They were giving FD something like 80k, which is 4x the money the average Korean person gets.
Rofl, no. FD got 30k.
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Well EG is rumored to be building a team house so if they get their stuff together and start really pushing it, they could be quite formidable. Also, If puma stays in Korea, I think playing alone would be pretty bad for his skills, I would think he would have to travel to EG's house. no? If thats the case, who will translate? or can he speak english? Idra The Translator? For a Terran?
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On July 21 2011 15:45 Alexian wrote:
Why does everyone keep saying his skills will deteriorate? TSL is one of the worst teams right now (Except for Sang ho). Demuslim and IdrA are at least as good as TSL members. If he can get that good on a team like that, he probably will be fine on any team.
Revival, Clide, Alive, and Heart arent better then Demuslim and IdrA? Am i hearing this right?
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On July 21 2011 15:49 StyLeD wrote:
Well, lost all respect for EG, even though my opinion doesn't matter ;P
post like these are laughable, losing "all" respect for a team based off a half told story.
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The biggest issue was that EG started talking up another player while he was participating for another team away from most of his teammates and coaches. And while Puma was certainly able to say no, I imagine that EG would not even bring it up if they weren't 100% sure that they could make an offer that was better than anything TSL could have offered (Korean SC2 teams are not as well off because all the big bucks go to the Brood War players who are already well known and in the spotlight a lot more).
What would you think if your girlfriend went to another state/city/country to go to a conference with people who knew she was going out with you, and yet some rich guy there stole her anyway. It's not the fact that they got Puma as much as it was basically EG flipping the bird to the entire team and to a lesser extent, all of korea, by saying "hey, so most of our players aren't as good are yours, whatever, we can just buy your players up even though you have them contracted because we have tons more money than you".
TSL's staff and coaches spent time, energy and capital to make sure their players could succeed and do well. Their result? A player poached before he can even pay off, by a time that failed to even get a SINGLE PLAYER into the top 16 of the competition he was competing in.
The reaction? I wouldn't be surprised to see teams keep their players (at least their top ones) in korea (with the exception of FXO) to simply safeguard their talent pools. EG in my opinion, has not only cemented the old Brood War concept that Koreans are simply the best, but they have also set back many of the ties that had been building as a result of cooperation between various organizations (TL-oGs, FXO/fOu, Dreamhack, GSL/MLG). This is bigger than one player, it is the precedent that Foreign teams can poach their top talent.
I wish PuMa the best of luck, but EG's move is in my opinion, inconsiderate, exploitative, and a damaging blow to Korean/Foreign relations in SC2. Poor Show
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On July 21 2011 15:50 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:49 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:48 Keype wrote:On July 21 2011 15:45 wats0n wrote:
Why weren't Korean netizens outraged when Startale picked up Trickster? Gimme a break. it was a complete different reasons, they didnt have the same plans for the future and tsl were going through changes etc. to topic : ye it will be hard to cheer on eg and more to cheer on puma in the future:/ Poor tsl. Lol the amount of emotion you're putting into this move is comical. It's not really a big deal and not having players under contract is naive, if you dont have the money to pay them then someone else will. They were salaried. And quite well.
Clearly not well enough as PuMa made the switch. If you hire someone for any job and your competition can offer them significantly more, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever you should expect your employees to stay with you. It's common sense and basic business strategy.
There's a reason in every single field in the world there are competitive salaries.
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Just when you are about to say FXO has the strongest foreign team (well if you take in FXO Korea into consideration), BAM. Not sure why people are freaking out about EG talking to the player... that was in America... Thats how almost every professional athletic organization has been for years. Why should they negotiate with the Coach unless they even know the player is at all interested.
EDIT: Keep in mind this is after TSL let Fruitdealer and tester (soemone who just made round of 8, and barely missed out of Round of 4) I would want to switch to another team too if i was Puma.
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EPT
