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I'm extremely worried for TSL at this point, because, it's what right now? SangHo, Clide, Alive... umm... yeah, this might actually be eSTRO 2.0, with the team disbanding and other teams snatching up the players D:.
While I'll congratulate EG on their acquisition of Puma, it's very frightening for probably all the remaining TSL players. Hopefully in the end, everything will turn out okay for TSL, and EG just stepped up their game so much, the EG house will learn/improve so much with Puma!
When everything settles, this will definitely end up being the right choice (as much as it pains me seeing TSL like this) for Puma, because he hasn't yet qualified for GSL, and the foreign community is where it's at right now, so gl and congrats to Puma and EG!!!
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On July 21 2011 15:44 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:43 Fionn wrote:On July 21 2011 15:39 Wargizmo wrote:On July 21 2011 15:22 doihy wrote:
Lost respect for puma , its one thing for lower tier players like rain or hwangsin to join foreign teams... but its totally different if a higher tier player joins foreign teams just for $$$.. Whatever happened to building teamwork.or wanting to have the highest tier of practice partners? I'll be rooting against him in every tourney he plays in.. Work 12+ hours plus per day, Be among the best in the world at what you do, Get paid next to nothing for it. In what twisted reality does this make sense? I would have done exactly the same as what Puma did. I'm on the fence about whether it was a dick move from EG or not but you can't blame Puma in the slightest. Who says TSL was paying Puma next to nothing? Just because Artosis said some Korean players don't get paid at all, DOES NOT MEAN TSL DOESN'T PAY THEIR PLAYERS WELL. It's been known forever that TSL was the first team in Korea to give salaries to their players. This simply seems like EG has more money, gave Puma a bigger contract, Puma forced Lee's hand, and Lee terminated Puma's contract so that he could leave. If this was truly TSL "owning" a player, Lee could have just ignored Puma's wishes and kept him under his current contract. They were giving FD something like 80k, which is 4x the money the average Korean person gets.
lol... no. FD and Tester were getting ~ $30,000 - 35,000 USD
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On July 21 2011 15:41 IcedBacon wrote:
Well there goes any support I had for EG. Approaching a player who is already on a team is in such terrible fucking taste.
Approaching a player already on a team? You mean every single notable player in the scene? Players cant afford to let a contract run out and sit as a free agent before finding a new team and discussing a contract. Just within TSL its most likely the case Rain/Fdealer and tester pretty much had contracts written up and ready to go before erasing the team tag on their names.
This simply has a big negative spin to it because due to the coach getting emotional it looks like a straight swap from TSL to EG.
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On July 21 2011 15:44 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:43 Fionn wrote:On July 21 2011 15:39 Wargizmo wrote:On July 21 2011 15:22 doihy wrote:
Lost respect for puma , its one thing for lower tier players like rain or hwangsin to join foreign teams... but its totally different if a higher tier player joins foreign teams just for $$$.. Whatever happened to building teamwork.or wanting to have the highest tier of practice partners? I'll be rooting against him in every tourney he plays in.. Work 12+ hours plus per day, Be among the best in the world at what you do, Get paid next to nothing for it. In what twisted reality does this make sense? I would have done exactly the same as what Puma did. I'm on the fence about whether it was a dick move from EG or not but you can't blame Puma in the slightest. Who says TSL was paying Puma next to nothing? Just because Artosis said some Korean players don't get paid at all, DOES NOT MEAN TSL DOESN'T PAY THEIR PLAYERS WELL. It's been known forever that TSL was the first team in Korea to give salaries to their players. This simply seems like EG has more money, gave Puma a bigger contract, Puma forced Lee's hand, and Lee terminated Puma's contract so that he could leave. If this was truly TSL "owning" a player, Lee could have just ignored Puma's wishes and kept him under his current contract. They were giving FD something like 80k, which is 4x the money the average Korean person gets.
Uhh, it was a little over 20k. 80k is a ridiculous number.
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idra
demuslim
puma
that looks respectable.
time to kick out the dead wood in incontrol, machine, axslav, strifcro and lz and employ more poaching shenanigans.
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On July 21 2011 15:36 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:35 arbitrageur wrote:
I don't understand why this is bad ethics? Why can't puma and EG come to an agreement without consultation with TSL? Because this is TL and Korea > West for a lot of people. After all, there are vocal Kespa supporters who post here.
Uh no but in a lot of professional sports, if a player is under contract, other teams can only try to recruit him if given permission by the team that currently owns him. Of course this rule is constantly violated ( in soccer at least) and there are a lot of gray areas ( the brother of the player accidentally meets and have dinner with the uncle of another player in the recruiting team) etc but at least the law and code is there.
I am guessing in the very young SC2 scene, there are no such laws yet but it is pretty standard in many other sports and it is also the ethical thing to do. Of course for those who yearns for profit, ethics pretty much means nothing these days.
So i guess the most important things we need to know (not very clear)
1. Was Puma under contract and what is binding in that contract.
2. Did Puma ask TSL for permission for breaking the contract or did he inform TSL that he has made his decision? Or was he kicked after asking permission from TSL ( i am not clear about this)
I am guessing there will be follow up by the SC2 association. Worse come to worse, EG and Puma might be banned from GSL / GSTL. Might not matter much to EG since they have no plan coming over like FXO did but still a black mark in the relationship.
Hopefully it won't scare away teams from sending their players overseas in fear of getting poached. But foreign teams need to respect ethics and cultural differences as well since it is a young scene and not all rules and precedents have been set. Money is not everything. Look at FXO , they have all the money in the world but still go about doing things the ethical way.
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On July 21 2011 15:43 Aranaukin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:41 EchoZ wrote:On July 21 2011 15:40 Aranaukin wrote:
Why is this scummy? This happens in pro sports all the time. You never go talk to the management in pro sports you talk to the agent. I was beginning to wonder if agents would ever be involved in e-sports. You people need to stop being butt hurt over something that's not a big deal. If Puma left to join EG it's probably because they're going to accommodate him better than TSL is. Which is what he deserves for being a great player.
So now you guys don't care that it's better for the individuals training if it's worse for a team? lulz. You see, the coach IS the agent. Does a coach get money for signing the player to another team ? no. The coach is the manager, far different from an agent.
But the coach is an agent.. According to the definition of agency in law textbooks :
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I'm not sure I understand why some people are calling for more "regulation" to prevent "player sniping". Facebook has been poaching Google employees for ages, and nobody is up in arms calling for regulation to prevent "engineer sniping". The best way to prevent your employees from leaving you to join your competitors is to offer a better deal. Attempting to prevent your employees from leaving you by colluding with all/most other competitors to come up with an "association" is as wrong as forming a cartel to charge consumers anti-competitive prices.
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On July 21 2011 15:36 dubRa wrote:
holy fucking shit
"I guess I have to recruit myself some pumas" - SirScoots @ Lo3 #79
He wasn't joking.
Yeah ... now that you mention it I was watching that live and I heard him say it as a joke ... lol
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On July 21 2011 15:46 sigoly wrote:
idra
demuslim
puma
that looks respectable.
time to kick out the dead wood in incontrol, machine, axslav, strifcro and lz and employ more poaching shenanigans.
demuslim isn't even close to those 2 lol...
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On July 21 2011 15:44 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:39 Serpico wrote:
I dont understand. If this is legal under his contract (allowed to talk to other teams and discuss deals) then it's a complete failure on their part to put the proper wording in contracts to completely lock down their players. It's business and you all CONSTANTLY scream about ESPORTS getting bigger and this is apart of that. Pretty much. People can't compare this to the NFL or NBA because there is no league/association that governs teams and players. Its a complete free market with NO regulation. Nothing will change unless something like that rises. And if it does, esports has gone big time. EG did nothing wrong. TSL could have refused to release Puma. And then he would still be on TSL. But they let him leave. They didn't sign him while he was still on TSL. Haven't you ever searched for other jobs while still at your old one? Pretty much the same thing. This is the 4th player to leave TSL in a short amount of time. Something is up with them. And I think its incredibly naive to sit there and bash EG without knowing the whole story, especially with players fleeing from TSL.
Uhhh...the Korean teams (except for Slayers) are all under the Korean Esports association, which DOES regulate the players and stuff. Again, stop talking out your ass, get your facts straight before you write an opinion.
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On July 21 2011 15:43 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:41 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:35 babylon wrote:
What the fuck is going on?
Fucking hell. Firstly, this is horrible press for foreign teams. Absolutely shitty. Secondly, going behind management? Dodgy at best. Thirdly, Puma, I know money is great, but you just got 50k USD, and at the very least you could, y'know, wait until your contract expired?
Goddammit, what the hell is wrong with having a little professionalism in SC2? Everything this man just wrote. EG must be one of the most unprofessional teams there is. And I'm pretty sure that Puma will get bored when Incontrol, Idra and machine are "hitting the gym" - While Puma acctualy wants to improve in sc2. Yes, because SC 2 players literally practice so much they can't do anything ever not involved with SC 2.
If you used your brain you would understand that what I ment is that Puma is used to practice SO much more then the rest of those guys, and I don't think it will be fitting at all for Puma.
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TSL keeps losing great players.
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On July 21 2011 15:39 cENTRYZ wrote:
I sure hope IdrA uses this opportunity to get the best ZvT in the world, lol.
haha his ZvT isnt half bad...
if only EG had good protoss players...
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I love how people treat Puma like he isn't a human being capable of making decisions. It seems a lot of Koreans simply don't want to play in Korea exclusively anymore
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Incontrol is gonna put him in his pocket, cutessyyyy pickk up. I am gonna wait for a new painting from that fellow who drew incontrol with idra.
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On July 21 2011 15:45 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:36 OptimusYale wrote:
HOLY SHIT!
I have 2 feelings about this, 1 good 1 bad.
Good: Amazing korean SC player joining a team that is one of the best teams out there, a great signing picking up one of the most amazing players at the moment
Bad: Player sniping needs to stop/be regulated. If TSL are 'releasing' him, it means they are getting no money back from what they invested into him. When will the player sniping stop? We've had teams like FXO take players from other teams. So many teams are just taking players at any point...it just seems silly to me to not have some kind of regulation to stop/keep this happening at the same point. We need a global body to moderate actions of teams (like FIFA) and have maybe 3 windows a year where players can be transfered/ drafted kind of like SCBW. Without it teams are going to lack consistency and lose players that should not be leaving.
We need something in place to stop this! WWESA? (World Wide Esports Associsation?) If Puma wants to leave then so fucking be it. The korean teams DON'T treat their players as well as the Foreign teams will. I hope this keeps happening, maybe the SC2 scene will sway out of korea a bit
????
The
SC2 scene is super small in korea compared to everywhere else.
BW is still the thing there.
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EG is the new SKT 
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this is no one "fault" its just simply business....
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On July 21 2011 15:41 EchoZ wrote:
You see, the coach IS the agent.
That's the very definition of "conflict of interest". It's as if your employer was also your union rep.
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EPT
