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United States23455 Posts
On July 21 2011 23:09 Sandro wrote: So, who is left on TSL now? Clide, Alive and Sangho?
(T)aLive Han Lee Seok T 2094 pts 2217 pts (T)Clide Han Kyu Jong T 1998 pts 2096 pts (T)Heart Kim Min Hyuk T 2034 pts - (Z)KDH Kang Dong Hyun Z - - (Z)Ragnarok Shin Hee Bum Z - - (Z)RevivaL Kim Dong Hyun Z 1981 pts 2091 pts (P)SangHo Shin Sang Ho P 2068 pts 2107 pts (P)Smart Park Jin Young P 2152 pts 2169 pts (T)Ultimate
They're in trouble.
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On July 21 2011 23:10 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:05 jakethesnake wrote:On July 21 2011 22:42 GreEny K wrote:On July 21 2011 22:39 Darkong wrote: Welcome to the world of professional sports where such practises happen ALL the time. Actually, if you are a contracted player in the MLG, NFL or NBA you are not allowed to do that... It is breaking rules. Actually, when they are under contract and they want to move, they just whine in the clubhouse. If that doesn't work, they complain to the press. Then, once they become toxic to the team morale, ownership has no choice but to give in to the player and trade them where they want. These kinds of things happen in sports - it just looks different because of the governing body and league rules. Really... That's the crap justification you're gonna use to make it all better? wow.
It's not really a justification...but it is true. People get out of contracts all the time by making it uncomfortable for both parties to remain in the contract. Is it ethical? Who knows. But it is legal.
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I really think some of you are coming to conclusions way too early, from just one post. If you want to come to an absolute conclusion and have a very good objective opinion, you should hear both sides of the story. EG hasn't even spoken about this and there's all this noise about how EG is crap and how bad they are as an organization. Let's wait for someone from their organization to explain what exactly happened.
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On July 21 2011 23:05 TheSilverfox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:00 Xiaon wrote:On July 21 2011 23:00 TheSilverfox wrote:This is a tweet from TSL_Korea: "EG!! that's a lie. Puma Good luck. TSL Everyone you want to be a good gamer. good bye." http://twitter.com/TSL_korea/status/94017113055956993Have I missed something, a statement from EG or something like that? Evil Geniuses!! that's a lie. Yes, I do understand that EG stands for Evil Geniuses, thanks for pointing that out though! 
[Your team is called] Evil Geniuses!! [But you arent Geniuses] That's a lie.
i think he interpreted the tweet in that way, he wasn't trying to tell you what EG stands for...
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On July 21 2011 23:11 SoniStreet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:09 Lexxes wrote: So.... when can we expect some EG-response? We need some new fuel to keep this flame going,
I hope InControl will be the one to make the statement, he is always constructive about it. Batter the hatches, there be a shitstorm a brewin.
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so i guees we will see Puma in more tournaments
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On July 21 2011 23:05 jiveturkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:00 Copenap wrote:On July 21 2011 22:48 meadbert wrote: So in the real world when someone wants to hire me they call me, not my current manager. Why should it be different in esports? If Puma had some contractual obligation then he would need to negotiate out of the contract. What is it with management acting as if they own their employees? That is not how it operates in America at all. 1. TSL made it possible for Puma to become this good and basicly paid for his "qualification". Now that finally that pays dividends EG comes a picks him up instead putting the money in developing own talents. 2. What's even worse imo (if that is all true, I'm still waiting for an official statement), you don't approach a 19yr old boy who's probably abroad for the first time and make him an offer a kid can't really comprehend. Wait for him to return home to korea and contact him and his parents while also informing TSL of this move, that would have been the better way. We still don't know everything but the op states that they contacted him while the tournament wasn't even finished and that's not responsible at all imo, even if I certainly hope he took this offer home and discussed it throroughly with his parents. 1. If a team wants to stipulate that they have the exclusive rights to a player's 'talent' if they are the people that cultivated that talent, then they need to put that in a contract. Plain and simple. 2. Really? At 19 people are not able to comprehend offers? I know that I was married, had a full time job, had an apartment, was paying insurance, healthcare bills, and picking a major in schhool that determines my life direction at the age of 19. That's plenty old, and definitely old enough for the parents to be left out of it. That is, unless there is some strange cultural thing I'm missing where Koreans feel that 19 is still a kid. If that's the case, that's sad.
You =/= everyone else. Don't make extrapolations based on the sample size [of you]. It's obviously all relative. Not to mention the huge cultural divide you're overlooking.
An older guy such as Scoots (or whoever/however many were involved in this decision making process), who is in a position of responsibility and power, should know better. End of story, end of thread.
If what has been revealed is correct, it's clear EG cares about the interests of EG, and those interests alone. Not admirable. Not good for E-SPORTS. Not setting a good example. Two thumbs way down. There are better ways to go about finding top players. If the contract was indeed mind blistering, sitting down with the coach and player and doing things correctly would have yielded the same results--the TSL manager would still have been upset, but at least things were done professionally and respectfully.
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Netherlands559 Posts
On July 21 2011 22:57 Enigma614 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 22:53 moonmeh wrote:On July 21 2011 22:47 Enigma614 wrote:On July 21 2011 22:30 Xiaon wrote: 팀원을 비롯한 많은분들과 그렇게 많은고민을하고햇는대도 이렇게.......... ................. from pumas twitter someone translate And so a lot of issues, including the contributions from the whole team, and this metropolitan haetneun Google is your friend... try it =/ Dude that made no sense what so ever Actual translation 팀원을 비롯한 많은분들과 그렇게 많은고민을하고햇는대도 이렇게.......... ................. I spoke with many people including my teamates and thought/pondered about it a lot and yet..... Thanks for clarifying.... mind it be after the fact... sorry for my Korean translation as I have never studied it, but was not to lazy to attempt to find the answer unlike many in the internet world
On July 21 2011 22:31 moonmeh wrote: 팀원을 비롯한 많은분들과 그렇게 많은고민을하고햇는대도 이렇게.......... .................
I spoke with many people including my teamates and thought/pondered about it a lot and yet.....
Uhh I smell a witch hunt here
He already translated it on page 141, a few posts under the guy that initially asked for a translation. Almost 30 minutes before you suddenly bring it up again. Seriously, you aren't doing anyone any favors. Especially not with that kind of attitude. You mess up and instead of apologizing you try to fight to get your right, then it's finally denied and you go passive aggressive, "but I never actually learned a whole language, at least I'm not as bad as everyone else." Very annoying to read, especially all the posts that come from it because everyone else gets frustrated by it as well. So chiggety check yourself before you wreck yourself, because making careless assumptions is for ya health.
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It's a buissness world I guess but this is exactly like MC cheesing White-Ra in a the finals... I don't give two shits that it's playing to win, sure, he won he got his price, but I sure as hell won't be a fan of the style or MC after that. Same as with this kind of lowering my expectations of EG because if they'd be sure of their own company and clan they wouldn't had gone so subvert... just contact Puma AND TSL Administration.
Hopefully TSL or the likes can make better contracts in the future. And yeah you can consider players talents and themselves as products at times, they're still people but contracts in NBA, NFL, etc. work like this. It's something they sign themselves.
Lastly... I hope EG gets into the GSTL now and kick some ass in a while!
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On July 21 2011 23:10 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:05 jakethesnake wrote:On July 21 2011 22:42 GreEny K wrote:On July 21 2011 22:39 Darkong wrote: Welcome to the world of professional sports where such practises happen ALL the time. Actually, if you are a contracted player in the MLG, NFL or NBA you are not allowed to do that... It is breaking rules. Actually, when they are under contract and they want to move, they just whine in the clubhouse. If that doesn't work, they complain to the press. Then, once they become toxic to the team morale, ownership has no choice but to give in to the player and trade them where they want. These kinds of things happen in sports - it just looks different because of the governing body and league rules. Really... That's the crap justification you're gonna use to make it all better? wow.
Why do I have to justify anything? I didn't do anything. Nor did I mention Puma or TSL or EG. I just said it happens in sports. I think you should tone down your anger.
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there seems to be a lack of translations from pro twitters at this time so i will do my best to bring some translations
In responce to TSL_Clide's "dirty money" tweet, fiveoone501 신지수 @clidekj 선수님들이 더 힘내셨으면좋겠어요..ㅠ
fiveoone501 a former MBC B teamer replied with "please lend him some of your strength" (implying that puma needs support during this time)
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fiveoone501 신지수 @TSLpuma 선수님..꼭 가서 잘 하셔야해요^^ 잘하실꺼라믿지만..아프지말고 스트레스도 많이받지마시구요~중요한건 건강입니다!!응원할께요^^화이팅!
he also tweeted to puma "puma, you have to go and do well! even though it may hurt, even though it may cause you stress the most important thing is your heath. i will be cheering for you. fighting"
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MaeLinE2 김혜린 @clidekj ㅠㅠ...
user maelin a playxp and former mbcgame partner had only this to say to clide about his "dirty money" tweet. those little T's being crying eye emoticons.
and also to puma she tweeted MaeLinE2 김혜린 @TSLpuma 이렇게 결정 된게 결코 나쁜 선택이 아니었으면 좋겠네요...화이팅입니다!
i hope that this decision you made wasnt a bad one. fighting!
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fruitdealer kimwonki winner of the first GSL had this to say about puma
fruitdealar kimwonki 머리큰푸마 18 hours ago
"big headed puma"
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from what scoots have said in the past, and what puma put on his twitter. i think this happened:
EG approaches puma at NASL ro4 to gauge interest in joining a foreign team Puma says he's interested EG makes an offer Puma flys back to korea, talks with his teammates/others (unsure if manager was included, but i dont see how he wasnt) Puma chooses to accept the deal TSL can not match or maybe Puma just wants to leave anyways TSL has no choice, decides to release Puma Puma signs with EG TSL manager flips tables (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ and tweets about EG
all assumptions
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haha Either way, I think you guys should wait for an interview by Puma which I am sure EG will supply soon enough... I am sure you will get all your zany answers from that interview. I am sure Puma is a happy panda right now.
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now coach Lee will be complaining to all the other korean teams, those teams will be afraid of there players and this hurts esports, good move EG your really geniuses
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On July 21 2011 23:12 SnapCall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:05 TheSilverfox wrote:On July 21 2011 23:00 Xiaon wrote:On July 21 2011 23:00 TheSilverfox wrote:This is a tweet from TSL_Korea: "EG!! that's a lie. Puma Good luck. TSL Everyone you want to be a good gamer. good bye." http://twitter.com/TSL_korea/status/94017113055956993Have I missed something, a statement from EG or something like that? Evil Geniuses!! that's a lie. Yes, I do understand that EG stands for Evil Geniuses, thanks for pointing that out though!  [Your team is called] Evil Geniuses!! [But you arent Geniuses] That's a lie. i think he interpreted the tweet in that way, he wasn't trying to tell you what EG stands for...
I know, that's the big in the end. To get back to the core, I'm not so sure that you can interprete the tweet in that way. The tweet from TSL_Korea is actually confusing. Nice that they want to write to their English fans, but I have no idea what they actually want to say except GL to PuMa.
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well the company IS called "EVIL GENIUSES"
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On July 21 2011 23:09 Woshie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:00 jiveturkey wrote: I like how people say that they 'stole' him. As if players are property.
And there is nothing wrong with bypassing management. If they would have gone through TSL as opposed to talking to Puma directly, Puma most likely would not have joined EG because the TSL management would most likely twist the offer in a way that Puma would not want to join. They are desperate to keep their best player.
Talking directly to him allows them to give him the straight up offer. If it's a good enough offer, he'll take it. If not, then he will not. This is a mutually beneficial arrangement and people should be happy for both EG and Puma.
"IMO it takes a fairly scumbag person aka organization to approach PUMA personally like this."
Why? He is a person. If you want to offer a person something, then do it. It makes no sense to go through that person's management. It is not EG's responsibility to talk to the team of a player they are interested in. They are simply interested in the player, and it his that player's obligation to figure things out with his team, which he obviously did. I 100% agree. People need a rude awakening to the real world. In the real world when I'm working for a company and another company wants to hire me they approach me. Not my company. They offer a package and I take it or not. The only reason some sports don't do that is because of a governing body which SC2 does not have. Also it was Puma's decision. He took himself out of TSL as have a few other players of late. So I'm unsure exactly what the situation is there. Maybe nothing is wrong in TSL but it seems odd. My main concern is where is Puma going to live. In EG's American house? Is EG going to get a place in Korea now as well? Is EG going to partner with someone like FXO to give Puma a place to train? \ Because in real life, you work for the company, make money for them and they'll pay you salary. If your company let you keep most (or all) the money you make, and also pay for your expense, find the sponsor, I bet they would be pissed too.
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In other words Tyler saying EG has some of the worst business practices was 100% true
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On July 21 2011 23:15 DeSam wrote: now coach Lee will be complaining to all the other korean teams, those teams will be afraid of there players and this hurts esports, good move EG your really geniuses A team paying a salary to a player is KILLING ESPORTS!
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