On July 21 2011 15:17 ExPresident wrote: I find it absolutely hilarious that people are going crazy and hating on EG for what is obviously a good business decision, and if you think running a team is anything but business your all out of your minds.
I highly doubt any one of you were there when EG approached Puma and spoke with him about their offer, nor did you have any information about Puma's contract with TSL and if he even had one or what the details were of that contract. It is very possible that EG had more information on his contract, lack of one, or the details that Puma was allowed to discuss. On the flip side, lets say EG had no clue the details of the contract and approached Puma anyway and asked him if he could openly discuss business about his contract and possible one with EG, in which case he clearly said he could because here we have this deal.
Now, while it may be 'polite' to talk to a coach or manager first where on earth does it say its required? If anything this is a huge step in the right direction for players everywhere because teams are going to have to start treating players very good if the want to keep them, competition will make things better for the players.
We could even go the ethics route and say its completely possible Korean coaches don't want other teams talking to their players because "what the player doesn't know won't hurt the team". I go back to the fact that these teams are ran by a business/sponsors and they want results. If they can control the offers made to their players then they can better control the situation with them staying or leaving their team.
All this hate on EG just blows my mind. Its clear that TSL wasn't treating Puma good enough or he wouldn't have taken an offer from a foreign team who has no real pull in the Korean scene. EG just made a killer business move.
Bottom line is Puma, the player here, just did good for numero uno.
Its not the fact that they purchased Puma so to speak. Its the way they did it. Behind coach, managers back, and AT A TOURNEY ! Imagine now how teams are gonna feel about sending top players to the USA to compete if they are afraid they might get them stolen !
Teams buy/trade/steal players all the time but this is just a little bit worse !
On July 21 2011 15:18 Rorra wrote: Wow this is just disgusting, by both EG and puma, just going behind TSL's back like that, all it does is create more bad rep for foreigners and make EG look terrible.
Yeah... it's obviously Puma's fault too (sarcasm). If you're offered more money than your current team, you wouldn't join? The only players that had a salary on TSL was Tester and FD with ~$30,000 USD
Fuck 'em. TSL should know that this is a great opportunity for Puma. He should accept it and move on to better things. It's not disgusting that they didn't go directly to his coaches, rather I find it strange that they didn't speak with the management of TSL first but that's a whole other discussion entirely. Props to EG, great pick up. I hope they don't use him in CWs though :D
You know, with some of the teams, how exactly do player contracts work? Brood war teams have very definitive contracts with most A teamers, who can't just switch to another team relatively quickly.
You'd think now some of the big teams in korea would try to have players agree to more binding contracts.
Manager Lee noted that "It is disappointing that we have to make a decision like this, but it's absolutely disgusting that Evil Geniuses would ignore the coaches completely and directly go talk to the player"
I feel really bad for the coach after reading that, especially with the other 3 players (FD, Trickster and Rain) departing recently as well :<
Are people seriously bashing Puma? Do you think all of these pros play the game because they like it? No. It's because they're damn good at it and it pays. If you're offered more pay to do what you're good at, why wouldn't you go for it?
TSL announced today that they will be releasing Puma on their team. The team revealed today that after Puma won NASL, Puma directly received interest from a foreign team, Evil Geniuses.
Manager Lee noted that "It is disappointing that we have to make a decision like this, but it's absolutely disgusting that Evil Geniuses would ignore the coaches completely and directly go talk to the player"
TIG confirms that Puma will be joining Evil Geniuses. EG made an offer to Puma after they made it to the round of 4, and after that, Puma had decided that he would accept EG's offer. Puma revealed his intentions to the TSL manager after coming back to Korea. Manager Lee decided to respect the player's wishes in the end. He noted that "It's really disturbing. It feels like the player I raised was just stolen away from me.", adding that "There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this"
EG has been revealed to pay Puma a certain amount of salary, and to provide Puma with money for foreign tournaments.
That part bugs me a tad. Both because it really does shed a negative light on foreigner teams and also Puma knew a lot coming over to SC2 after playing BW as Flash's practice partner for however long. It's not like he really raised him up or anything, he just knew who he was and realized that he was going to be a solid player after having that much skill prior.
It disturbs me that people actually think that competition over players, driving up their salaries, growing the profession is a bad thing. It's a joke that TSL thinks there should be a system to keep players locked into a scene where many of these guys don't even get salary.
"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this" Yah, apparently it's called pay your players more or treat them better because it wasn't EG's fault he left TSL for them! Obviously they made him a better offer. If he was happy with TSL then he obviously would've stayed. Pretty common sense
On July 21 2011 15:19 deth2munkies wrote: This is classic Western vs Eastern thinking colliding. On most Western teams, the players have much more autonomy than Eastern teams. It seems to me that the coaches are pissed because they felt like the player was going over their heads, when a Western team wouldn't necessarily be bothered for that reason (although others may exist in a sketchy deal like this).
I don't see anything wrong with it, good players should always be courted by everyone and it's up to them to decide where they actually want to go.
You speak with Wisdom friend. Indeed - Anyone who grew up in the Sinosphere would understand the calamity of EG's move. Yet - money is money fellas. "For money is the root of all evil"
On July 21 2011 15:13 Postman wrote: Why is it EG's fault for recruiting him and not TSL's fault for not being able to compete with another team's offer?
Postman, because there was NO OFFER.
It was all done behind the fucking back of TSL.
EG goes to Puma, says "Hey, you should join our team. You'll get to go to more foreign events, and we'll give you a salary."
Puma goes back to TSL, and says "Hey, I'm gonna go join EG. These guys are going to give me a better deal".
TSL has the option of saying "Hey, you'll be losing out on our teamhouse and your teammates for constant practice. What if we gave you a salary too to keep you?"
Everything is negotiable, and this is going to be a fairly large change for Puma. If TSL was treating him right then he wouldn't have wanted to leave in the first place and incur such a change. TSL doesn't own Puma, unless standard team contracts have undergone some serious changes. Plus, now that TSL isn't paying FD/Tester's salaries there is no reason they couldn't afford to keep Puma.
If the Green Goblin threw PuMa and IdrA off the Brooklyn Bridge and you were Spiderman and could only save one of them to play the ace match in the finals of EG Masters Cup VIII...
Poll: WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE?
Even with Greg and Puma EG will not make the finals! (130)
44%
Greg! (97)
33%
Puma! (70)
24%
297 total votes
Your vote: WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE?
(Vote): Greg! (Vote): Puma! (Vote): Even with Greg and Puma EG will not make the finals!
EPT
